Hello all!

For the last few years, I've been dropping in every few days or weeks to see what's cropped up since I last visited. It seems like I used to always be able to find something new and exciting, but lately pies and slime just aren't exciting to me anymore. There is a shortage of savoury vids, plus I'd like to see a lot more cakes..

Sorry, I kinda rambled, but am I the only one who thinks some of the new videos are getting stale? I'm an American, I have a messy mistress in the UK, and we try/do all kinds of new things. I would get really bored if we didn't.

If it is, it's the result of a saturated marked starting to hit the plateau of meh.

It'll probably even out sooner or later.

It's as Noise says. The selection increases and, in equal proportion, so does our boredom. It's like TV. It doesn't become more varied and interesting the more channels there are because, in order to survive commercially, they have to aggregate themselves to appeal to the largest number of people. So, what you get is a dirge of a thousand so-so channels.

And don't forget, for individuals it is an obsession that won't deviate all that much from their own particular way of seeing it.

On the bright side, there is gold in them thar hills if you sift for it!

As Noise has said that market is so saturated and has been for a while now. The days of waiting for a producer to produce a new film with something different, quality lighting and studio, mess and of course the models has kind of been overtaken by the home producers filming their wives and girlfriends. Unfortunately it's very difficult to compete in that market where there are no expenses other than the mess. With that market being so saturated that's what we are seeing so much of now. For us, we haven't produced a new film in well over a year and don't really have plans to shoot anything new female wise at the moment. The market is just too saturated to cover costs at the moment. Maybe things will change and more producers will go back to the variety we once had with trying new ideas and pushing boundaries.

I guess at some point things will probably change again and things will even out. In terms of actual mess, it does go in cycles between Gunge, sweet, savoury and pies etc. We selling a lot of Gunge at the moment, so I guess Gunge and slime videos are still very popular.

Www.thegungeshop.com

One of the big things is how the internet rewards producing content in quantity over quality. Everyone wants something now and cheap and the same the next day.

It's a habit that has been bred by the internet.

Find an easy formula, make it as cheap and as often as possible. That's the business model that's rewarded.

UMD I think tries to find a balance, but there's a reason the front page is dominated by "What's New", "Hottest Download" and "current top store" "wammer of the day".

I'm not blaming Derek or the UMD... It's just the way it is.


It's not necessarily how it always will be, but it is how it is. There isn't much profit in spending time and effort to make something awesome as it will just get drowned out in the cheap stuff today and tomorrow and the day after. Back catalogue counts, and that may be the saving grace of many and how some producers will see out this stage of online media industry development.

Or I maybe talking out of my ass. But then, many thought I was talking out of my ass when I spoke of the barrier to entry dropping so low would create a saturated market.

I suspect it'll change, sooner or later people will demand quality again and learn it has to be supported properly with both cash and business model.

Something will evolve and it's well worth bearing in mind we are spoiled fucking rotten now compared with 15+ years ago. People already forget there was a time we didn't have the internet and there are plenty that weren't there beforehand.

I think I know what the next business model will be for messy, and it'll probably be the UMD and some big producers doing it. I suspect in 3-5 years things will change again.

I agree with you and Noise. I just want to point out that we husband/wife teams DO have expenses in addition to the mess. I pay for my own wardrobe which is something I take seriously and put a lot of thought and effort into, have paid for professional photographers on occasion, pay fees to the UMD just like any other producer, pay taxes on my income and I place a value on my time, as well. Which is why I don't even bother with customs anymore. Anyway, before I ramble on too much, some of us do this for the love of it and want to share with the community but it doesn't necessarily mean that we're doing it for no cost.

Echoing Noise, people are spoiled as fuck now. Pre-internet, I recall Bigshipper tearing pictures of muddy girls out of my Vogue magazines and waiting for his Messyfun newsletter to arrive IN THE MAIL! Paying ridiculous money for a VHS tape, and then waiting weeks for that to arrive IN THE MAIL. Seriously!

Sure, the market is over saturated but you can get pretty much whatever you want these days. Is that a bad thing??

Mrs. Bee

I think the quality of wam dropped precipitously when Mrs. Bee retired.

Like Mrs Bee, I refute the idea that there are no costs apart from the mess. I also take very seriously the business of making content saleable and being of a merchantable quality and this is a matter for constant improvement. Not having to pay the model a fee doesn't immediately provide you with a massive margin. And as the quality directly relates to the level of resource one has put in, I therefore don't think couples who put out movies necessarily are at any advantage. With only one model - and the same one - performing each time, we are also limited to that part of the market who finds that individual attractive/those who like that particular notion (the WAM couple). Our only real competitors are other couples - and there are good and bad ones on that playing field. I've also always been mindful of not underselling content so it would undermine the sales of the commercials and pitch it accordingly.

On the whole, on a personal level, I've been around since the days of the mail order video too and I have voraciously consumed professional producers' material and continue to be prepared to pay out for it - and my fair share. I think overall, I've put in much more that I've got out of it. I might well have gone into commercial production years ago, but my life then was not compatible. This is the way things have panned out for me. And I love it!

Yeah, the trend towards "cheap and quick" has been going on for years... And that's also spurred the "race to the bottom" pricing models. I find I release scenes MUCH quicker now... But none of them are cheaper (in terms of cost) than they were even a couple years ago. If anything, EVERY model wants a lot more money, so I'm releasing more scenes that cost more money at a quicker pace just to maintain the same sales from a few years back.

BUT sometimes you spend a lot of time and effort and manage to produce something to cut through the noise. Our Chega Mais parody did that this year! Unfortunately it's impossible to predict WHAT will connect like that, so equal amounts of time and effort go into other ambitious scenes that get met with a universal shrug. (Ah, Pie Machina....)

Still, though, I think there's a market for people who don't want Fiver clips, or cell phone footage. Semi-decent production values and quality mess and really cute models are still worth... Something, right? We shall see.


Can't help you on savoury, but man! I'm caking these poor girls as much as I can!! Carrie holds the current record with three cakes in one scene, but I've got a couple other scenes in the pipeline that equal that total (and one that beats it!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnLkyPB9V3w

I disagree that the saturation is a good thing.

With financial constraints due to constant undercutting the production value of content has dropped significantly the past 5 years, and now look more cookie-cutter than ever. Very few producers are left who are willing to take risks while newer ones are now playing it very safe with claustrophobic indoor shooting locations, impromptu messes that are less thorough with coverage, messes that are very easy to clean off (i.e. food and slime, as opposed to more exotic elements like mud or paint), or minimal clothing if any.

I myself have been genuinely bored with the near constant attention to pies and gunging. I don't think this scene will ever recover from this rut.

There's a lot of talk about substance and setting, but I think the real area for growth is in authentic-feeling WAM scenes. The enormous majority of producer scenes end up having a fake feeling to them because models are told how they should act and react to different scenarios. It's not enjoyable and it just feels artificial.

I'm going to shamelessly plug Gness7 (Project 20M) here because he produces exactly the type of scenes we need more of. The models are attractive, but not bombshells. The substances are alright, but nothing special. The real charm of the scenes is that the models aren't told to be sexy. They feel like civilians who happened to accidentally find their way into a WAM shoot. They're not jaded and they're not following a script.

Another example which I just found recently is this scene:

http://clips4sale.com/mandys-splosh-and-fetish-fun/Swimsuit+filling+and+sploshing

I was expecting something doctored and fake (I was mostly in it for the swimsuit), but it turned out to be a couple having a lot of fun with a scene together. It had a very intimate feel to it, which is unusual in most scenes.

WAM scenes need more "normal" people in them.

Ask these people how easier it is to make and sell.

It's easy to make an unlit single camera single girl in the bathroom video. Making something of quality is not easy. Never has been, never will be. It's a business to these people and running your own one is not easy when you want to do it well.

I get it in real life, and we go all out. At some point she'll either move to the US or I'll move to the UK. Until then she's trying to find a girl for me to work with here.

It's not that it's unprofitable, it's that there are more profitable things to do that take less time and I can't run a "lifestyle business" at the moment.

It's there but it's not prolific.

Alright Noise
still trying to get the competion removed by moaning so only your work remains lol.
i still say this and always have that free trade and competition is the best, if you sink its because you are not trying hard enough.
Whilst I understand the limitations of true amateurs some professional producers are just churning out endless dross with no imagination IE just sit there, unanimated while I pour some sort of lazy arsed coloured gel on you. This is not the spirit of wam, it has a place but not to the point its almost 75% of all new materiel.
Anyone is free to come along with fresh, new, well thought out materiel and sell their work. Hmm interesting

Cheers Yam

You know something? I had a thought. I have plenty of ideas that can (and have been by me) achieved for well under 50 dollars.

I was thinking about some of the wildest experiences I have had and there is one in particular that comes to mind that I would like to see in video form. First person to make it is gonna be rich. I should have recorded it and posted it, but alas hindsight is 20/20. I like to see mixed fetishes. See there's a ton of people who have more than a WAM fetish ya know?

Anyways, in this particular setup, I laid on the floor with my wrists tied to the legs of a wooden chair. I laid on top of an extra large trash bag that I cut open to use as a tarp (no expense because I had a bajillion of them) in the bathroom.

I had a girl sit in the chair above me, and using her feet, she crushed 20 bananas (ultra cheap, especially if you live in Oklahoma), a giant box of cupcakes, a real keylime cheesecake, and a sheet cake into my face. Then she covered me with chocolate pudding. It was great, it was something actually exciting for once other than the usual pies/slime.

Now I know, you can request customs, but I had it priced once and I thought the price was a tad unreasonable.... Just how I felt, maybe it wasn't all that unreasonable. I have an idea for a business model that makes premium content for the customers. As someone who personally owns about 2TB of content (quite a bit from Slapstick Stuff have a shout out lol) I know what sells.


Sooooo that said, what if we had a method of requesting customs. It can be as long or short as you want. The producer can produce the video and if it reaches a pre-determined amount of sales (say a hundred downloads) then the video would be provided at free or reduced cost to the request. If the video turns out to be a total flop, the client agrees to pay the normal rate...

I don't have a store of my own (mostly because my mother still does my taxes ).... but I think that would be a great business model that would make a TON of money for producers, and help clients to get worthwhile content..

Just a thought... I noticed some professional producers replied so I would like to know your opinions.

Part of the change I think has to do with style as well. Splosh videos by Bill Shipton were (and in my opinion are) a gold standard when it comes to WAM.

High Mess Content, Cheeky Dialogue and Sexy Situations, and a Tasteful level of Nudity that isn't especially hardcore.

Most people just set up a girl in front of a screen and throw pies these days.

There are exceptions to this but in a world of predominately amateur produced content it's hard to be creative without also having time, money, and effort to produce Quality.

Spellmagedon was a crap show with a dumb idea behind it, but can you imagine if an actual WAM fan/producer had been creating/making a similar show with that type of Budget behind it?

I keep thinking the next Big Thing will be where all the "little guys made good" will have to consolidate, money talent, labor, and resources into taking the next step and building something more.... Established.

I know it's a community of individuals with niche interests but seeing what some have done over the years on their own... imagine what they'd have been able to accomplish together.

I imagine a few big players will survive, but generally, ambitious productions will probably no longer be presented to us on a platter and we will have to collectively bear the financial risks ourselves. Perhaps we will crowd fund or form consortia but we will better understand the cost, value and our expectations. Without realising it, we are possibly beginning to form such an organic cooperative already on the UMD.

Incidentally, I also see Splosh! as very much a formative influence: bright, colourful, naughty - but fun; showbiz, sexy comedy. But even Splosh!'s aesthetic was determined much by market conditions of its own time: the production values and entertainment were mindful of the need to pass for certification by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) to be legally distributed and sold as commercial media (this applied to ANY commercial film whatsoever, however obscure but ESPECIALLY, to anything with an adult theme). The internet and soft media has latterly made this utterly impossible to enforce.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree.
Yes it is true there is now a lot more WAM clips out there, yes the quality has dropped off with a lot of unimaginative content and that is by no means limited to the amateurs and very much the preserve of some nameless producers who indeed as mentioned before sit the model down, mess her and move on. But this is a free market like anywhere else.
Firstly if you are not getting the sales it is because you are not producing the goods to a standard that appeals to the market, dont moan because someone else is flogging unimaginative vids just like yours try some imagination instead, try being better, try working harder or are video sales on UMD some strange anomoly that sits outside the rules of commerce.
In all my years working with Blue Chip companies I have never heard one blame the competition for their failure to suceed.
My advice is get out there and work hard to make the best, most stunning clipsyou can and stop bloody moaning

PS watch this space I currently have some very exciting work in the pipeline including some co production work with other producers

I don't think you read what I said without blinkers on. Take 'em off and maybe try again. In fact, what you took as me not wanting competition is what I predicted a fair while back - because I'm relentlessly correct about this stuff. The barrier to entry going so low has created a saturated market full of dross that's hiding the real gems.




I'm not sure you are noting the difference between this and other industries. If I like making pie videos and they sell none because the market wants peanut butter... I'm not going to make peanut butter videos because eugh!

That's just an example to explain that producers might want to make money, but most are also shooting to their own taste.



You make my point. That 75% of material is quantity over quality. I could do that and just bank the cash but... meh. If I'm going to make stuff it's going to be good, but it's also going to be more expensive than that and I need to at least break even and ideally make a decent return on investment. People have to put food on the table.



If they are willing to break even or make negligible returns when they could be making real returns on work and money elsewhere.


As I said earlier, it may take a few years but the business models will change around again and the market will demand quality. Some will ride it out, some won't bother for whatever reasons.

Fair enough. I'm just saying there an underserved market.

I don't understand the argument here. What is "Quality"? Why is "Quality" an important attribute for a scene to have? From the comments above, I'm interpreting that most people seem to interpret "Quality" as meaning "Having high production value".

Thinking that because you value production value highly in a scene, everyone else should as well, is naive. People look for a variety of things in a scene. For me, I favor genuine reactions and authenticity far more highly than production value. This is almost impossible to find in the "High Quality" scenes that you're referring to. They are generally predictable, scripted, and fake-feeling.

Not only that, but most producers here who have high production value tend to produce scenes with the same "feel" over and over and over again. It gets boring after a while.

Scenes of wives and girlfriends are generally more relatable and sexy. Everyone here fantasizes about being able to gunge a girlfriend or wife, but most can't do so for one reason or another. Being able to see videos of others doing it is the closest most will get.

Scenes posted here can be viewed as a sort of wish fulfillment. If you aren't doing that, you're doing it wrong.

I think that what you are experiencing is kind of like with violence on the news. Eventually you become numb to it and eventually you are just meh. Or if you eat the same foods all the time. You stop watching the news and the numbness goes away, just like with the food or anything else. There are producers out there that are providing new content that is exciting. There are also producers that have not made any new content and are making money regurgitating the same stuff on a cycle. That way they only have to spend the money once for the shoot and can continue making money off it years later. I can see the wisdom in both methods. There is enough content every week on this site to find something new out there. Someone trying something different or a new model in the same stuff. The reactions from the models is where you find some of the newest stuff. If you don't like the slime and pie stuff, or are looking for more new things, get a custom or two. That is how you can introduce models to a new substance for wam. Sure the first time you have to put out extra money, but it may be something that the model likes and films more of for a pay site. There are also a lot of a la carte sites to get what you are looking for.

I have to admit the complaining about stuff that has been coming and going in here is a little annoying. If you don't like what you see buy a custom or offer suggestions, but don't pressure producers. If you don't want to buy the custom or contribute ideas, then you have no place to say anything about content. If you aren't getting your "fix" here do a google search and find what you are looking for. There is enough content out there for everyone.

I love people like you: people who think that because they don't agree with a particular person's point of view, that person has no right to express it.

You make it seem like I should feel bad for "pressuring" people. I spend hundreds of dollars a year buying scenes. I can choose to spend that money on mainstream producers or on small-time, one-off, scenes. I'm simply explaining why I would choose to go with one rather than the other. Do you think I'll hurt people's feelings by telling them why I spend my money the way I do? Do you think that they'd rather just not hear what I have to say?

Producers right now should feel pressured by the new scenes hitting the market. Every new scene has something fresh to offer. Every new scene has a different take on the WAM concept. That's how innovation happens. If mainstream producers can't compete, then they're not producing what people want to buy and are failing to serve the market as they hope to.

Then again, what do I know. I'm only a customer.

I agree. I like something extra. I've got more slime and pie videos than I know what to do with. Some are good. I like the bondage scenes, but I (as a customer) want to see innovation. New foods, and the like. Candy Custard did a video awhile back where she had people suggest items she hadn't tried getting messy with.

The results were amazing! I bought that video and I loved it because it was perfectly unique.

The one major flaw to this plan... is that it kinda goes against the entire idea and process of customs. I'm pretty sure myself and most other producers do customs this way:
1) Customer send producer money for custom.
2) Producer shoots custom.
3) Producer send footage to customer (either edited or not, depending on time).
4) Much later, producer releases scene to general public, where it then starts selling and becomes success/flop.

Your idea would reverse the entire process. First off, the producer would shoot the custom with NO money up front... which is a cardinal sin in this market.
Second, the producer would release the scene to the public BEFORE the person who actually commissioned the custom.
And finally, if it's then a flop, the producer now has to somehow get the money from the custom originator... months after the fact... knowing full well said customer basically had their custom produced for no money up front, and could've just as easily purchased it like any other customer for MUCH less than the custom cost.

Now your idea COULD work by having the custom proceed as normal... But if a sales plateau is reached (because it's a hit), the producer agrees to either refund some of the initial cost... OR give the customer a discount on the next custom. But this means the customer has to trust the producer completely, since his sales aren't gonna be public record.

Personally, if someone commissions a custom that turns out to be a big success, I'm probably gonna hit that idea again. So they'll see their "dream scene" reproduced with different models, which for most customers is the best possible scenario.

@SlapstickStuff I like your revision of my idea. I wouldn't mind fronting the initial cost if it meant that I had a chance to give good ideas. I have great ideas and not just ones that I would like specifically. I'd love to discuss some ideas with you. Someone who has been around for a long time.

Ideas are ten a penny, everyone has "great ideas". A lack of great ideas aren't the problem. It's the money and the execution.

I suspect you will have a bit of a shock when you find out your ideas don't in fact cost $50 to shoot and we won't see any of them make it to market.

^^I'm gonna be a bit more "charitable" than Noise, but yeah, basically.... If your idea involves a female model, that's gonna start at $150. Because I don't have any more models willing to shoot even one scene for less than that.

There has been lots of high quality content made, and still being made. Anyone who's been in the business for more than a few months will have (or at least should have) learned that certain things are vital:

• Film in a decent resolution
• Keep the camera steady
• Light the scene so we can see what's happening
• Use models who can carry off the style you want to see

It's not difficult and doesn't even have to cost that much - with decent lighting you can shoot an acceptable scene on a modern smartphone, spend a few $$$ on an HD camcorder and again, if properly lit you'll get results as good as most of the pros.

The problem is selling the content - it doesn't matter how high quality something is, if the target market amounts to three people, it's not going to be profitable. And because this is a fetish market, tastes are horrendously specific. To give just one example, it doesn't matter if you have the cameras of a Hollywood studio and an actual Hollywood actress as your model, if you put her in low-rise jeans, I'm not going to buy your scene, because I utterly detest that style of clothing.

We saw a spectacular attempt to raise the bar on WAM productions when the Moomins launched TopGunge - that was a serious attempt to get to TV-gameshow levels of production, with a proper studio, loads of models dressed to the nines all getting very messy. And for a while everyone raved about it. But ultimately they had to give up the studio and stop producing it, because not enough people were willing to fork out the $$ per episode to keep it going. And some of that was probably down to specificism, because this is a fetish market.

In a mainstream TV show, if you have some girls play a game and then push the losers into a big tub of gunge, it's funny, the audience will laugh, people will like the show. It won't even matter if all you see is the girls getting pushed and then the camera cuts to the host, to mainstream audiences that's funny, while the WAM audience tears its hair out at the missing "in the gunge", "climbing out", and "after" shots.

And on the mainstream show, it doesn't matter what anyone is wearing. Bikinis, dresses, jeans, show uniforms, whatever. But from the WAM audience POV, people who get turned on by jeans won't buy a dress scene. People who like knee length dresses will hate miniskirts. People who love high-waist jeans will hate low-rise. Some will want the contestants wearing waterproofs, some will want them in spandex, some will want boilersuits, some won't be interested unless pies-in-the-face are involved.

So any WAM producer looking to set up a TV-show style production faces the twin hurdles of both the high costs, and the deeply fractured audience reducing the likely sales figures.

So, most producers stick to shooting what they personally like, because that way even if something only gets three sales at least you're left with a production you can enjoy yourself. Personally I have no interest in nudity, so Saturation Hall is strictly fully clothed throughout. But I do like clothes filling, so we do quite a lot of it.

As to variety, the last few releases on Saturation Hall and Langstonedale have been:

• A young black woman in a legsuit swimsuit filling it with cream and soup.
  
• An older white woman in black combats and a corset covering herself in custard.
  
• A young woman with lovely curly hair, in American Apparel disco pants filling them with cream, custard, and pink gunge.
  
• Two young women, one black, one white, in formal dresses, filling and covering each other in custard and syrup.
  
• A young woman in jeans and a denim jacket having buckets of water poured all over her.
  
• A young woman in urban combats and a white jumper in the mud.
  
• Two young women in school uniforms soaking wet and covered in bubble bath.
  
• A young woman in boots and white jodhpurs going into the mud.

Ok, not much there for pie fans but the pie subgenre of WAM has multiple dedicated producers catering to it who know exactly what they are doing. Just about all of our scenes nowadays involve total head-to-toe coverage, and I'm still acquiring new models, we shot a mud scene on Saturday with a stunning new girl who despite never having done any form of WAM before absolutely loved it.

So no, I don't think things are getting stale, but the market is now so saturated with content that you do have to hunt to find the good stuff.