OK , I'll admit - I thought long and hard before deciding to post this. My posts lately have all been centered around the idea of helping people (including myself) understand that this fetish is not something to be ashamed of or embarrassed by. But up until now I am very aware that I have left out a huge problem facing this community.

Like all straight males into WAM, I wonder the same thing... are there women out there who are into this. The answer is yes. Clearly. However over the last 18 months or so I've seen so many posts from women expressing concerns over how they've been approached in PMs or certain comments in posts or pics. A lot of them have left the community, and with a very negative view of us as a whole I'm sure. And that worries me.

I'm not an aggressive person. I'm equally terrified of sexually confident women and men alike lol. However, in the interests of making this 'kink' an acceptable norm, and also in the interests of human decency - can we as straight men - please start to show some respect to the women who are brave enough to express their sexuality here



Addendum... I'm not trying shame anyone here , and I'm so sorry if this comes over as a but militant. To me WAM isn't a choice. It's a sexuality and I want to defend it fir everyone

I've been on UMD since the very beginning and this has always been an issue.

Me too, and I think you're right. But it doesn't hurt to remind people from time to time

Amen to this! I've warned my fiance when she set up her profile on here, and just as predicted she got crazy unwanted messages. I'm lucky that she has thick skin and we actually joke about what we've seen on here.

Agreed with OP and I'm glad this is being talked about more, I've been here quite a while too and only recently has this been brought up more.

Men on the internet often harass women, make them fearful, scaring them off. Even if they are not doing it deliberately or maliciously it can still ruin someone's experience.
Those that do upset deliberately are not going to stop by simply asking, the anonymity allows to consequence free actions: Get banned? VPN and you have another account a week later.
This leads to fewer women on here so anyone new gets bombarded by all kinds of 'offers' while the ones that stay probably have to brace themselves mentally when they fire up their account ("you have 98 new identical boilerplate messages")...

I don't have a solution as the reasons for this are many, we have talked about "women only" forums, though how that could be policed I don't know. Reporting numpties can only go so far as people won't take harassment anymore and either leave or set up blank profiles to visit (much to the annoyance of 2 of the community)...

I am agender, asexual but would love to have a messy session with another splosher, but as I appear cis-male I know just my presence can affect any women I contact without asking, and thus I talk to very few women on here (when I have it's normally been a nice chat or shut down quickly, and I'm ok with that). It's such a shame we can't all be nice so we all have the possibility of meeting fellow sploshers without fear! But if wishes were pennies I'd be rich.

Also, I do get blokes instant messaging me and within 3 exchanges they are trying to role-play! Seriously guys? Imagine how you would feel if some random bloke walked up to you on the street, said hello, then went for your nuts "but it's ok, I'm being friendly"...that's what you look like! Are you surprised that people just leave the site?

Sorry, going into rant mode. I'm getting old, get off my grass.

"Objectification" isn't probably the word you're looking for here. That kinda comes as part of a fetish and expression of sexuality, in a sense. If I'm asking someone to pour chocolate over me while I've got a dildo up my vagina, I'm pretty sure that anyone watching is going to be seeing me as a sexual object, mostly. (I just need them to remember that I'm still an actual woman then too with feelings. Yes, those don't turn off when our pussies are going.)

But this is ok because when I do it it's on my terms. People just need to remember that it stops when I say it does and if I'm not expressing myself like that, I may not want to right then.

The biggest issues I've had here, and I feel like I've been lucky to avoid a lot of the worst of it because I kinda hide (and my profile is just full of my underwear ), is that guys demand or expect things. Like "You should make a video!" or "You should post photos of [this thing they like]." And when I refuse, they either insult me or otherwise argue why I need to be doing that thing, like I excist to serve them. It really feels like a fish for free content (and I don't even do paid content). It's been rare that this has happened to me but I think that's because I don't stick my neck out too often now because I've come to like very selective attention and not the random bursts that come from posting a lot. I'm even reluctant to put my thoughts into posts like this for that reason.

It's not limited to this site. I have friends who do Only Fans and have the same issue. Plenty of girls I know who post some spicy stuff on Instagram get flooded with messages from dudes thinking it's a dating site or a lingerie post means she is inviting any sort of sick demands. Heck, even girls who don't post that stuff and just put regular pictures of themselves get it.

If you could figure out how to solve it, you could probably win the Nobel Prize of the Internet, whatever that would be.

This has been discussed at least a million times here and elsewhere. That's not a bad thing. "Objectification" of women in situations like this occurs because people are interested in them being a toy for sexual gratification. That isn't inherently bad either but it's going to happen because you can't build much of a relationship in 15 minutes.

Dave had some rules from the earliest days at MPV about treating the ladies like proper employees and partners in the creative process. We became, and remain, friends with many of them. It was one of several reasons why we had people like Star and Summer return every season for years. They were never objects to us and near as I can tell the fan base looks at them the same way. Another rule Dave had was to keep our wives/girlfriends out of the fetish. You don't want to objectify the person you love. It's a tricky line to walk but you can't permit them to become a toy for another's pleasure nor your own.

Anyhow, all that rambling means is yes, some are just objects on the screen. Honestly, that's what they are there for. Most of them are aware of this. It's only a bad thing if you can't keep that separate from real people in your life.

Well speaking as a woman (last time I looked). Call me an object... I don't care.

I have had no issues in here at all.... ever. I am on Fetlife.... same there too... no issues.

Unfortunately, I may possibly be in the minority in thinking that SOME people/women/men/insert gender here, are all to easily offended these days

Hassle me? You would be blocked and reported, but I ain't leaving because of you.

I am totally sure women suffer pestering, but I actively seek attention in here (and other places), so I can't moan when I get it.

Tara xx

Exactly.

I always worried about this, feels weird to tell a woman how beautiful she is and how amazing she looks in the clothing and mess she gets covered in, but think that
a) as long as its respectful, not sexually explicit or rude that it should be okay as whilst they primarily post in the hope and expectation of making money from the posts, it's good to give positive feedback.

B.) Unless it's a query about customs or business related matters, I never private message anyone, and wouldnt unless they specifically ask for it.
Private lives and business lives should be kept separate.

C) I dont think any reasonable person would object if a model posts on a forum or private message, that they feel someone has overstepped the mark and are making them feel uncomfortable, if that doesn't work, perhaps messmaster could introduce a rule, about complaints about an individual, maybe a warning for the first time, a ban for any further infringements.

Well said !!!

Yeah, I love this answer. Not excusing the creepos, but let's be real. It's just a part of every social media platform ever, and the only way to stop it is to shut off the internet.

The good news is you can just ignore and block and report it very easily, and that's plenty of recourse. Nobody who's treating this site as a dating app is gonna stop because you posted this. No shade though, OP, you're not wrong.

I want to hear what Slavoj Zizek thinks now.

While they're at it, tell them to sort out their insane gun laws too.

So basically, (sniffs) ze ideology of the WAM is festered in ultimate pervert art of cinema. This is ze trash can (rubs nose like a coke addict) of the inane and we enjoy it for love is a monstrous parasite and so on and so on (cough)

Stalin and Trotsky disagreed on the ideology of world wam. Trotsky wanted to spread wam to all the world's proliteriat, whereas Stalin wanted wam to be in one country and the Soviet Union would keep wam to itself.

Getting back onto topic, from socialist politics, I would not approach random female wam community members, as I wouldn't want to creep them out.

I've only pm'd people if they've submitted a friend request, or, when I got a custom done by most wam, so I exchanged a few with Charlotte ( my all time wam crush favourite )

Guys, don't hassle the girlies, they do a great job at fulfilling our fantasies, respect is due

Bourgeoisie counter revolutionary elements within the wam community need to be purged as part of the glorious five year plan

You've got to go about it in the right way. I love seeing pretty, smartly dressed girls getting plastered with pies, their clothes wrecked etc.

However, you can't just randomly come onto someone you like the looks of and grab her can you?

If the girl is ok with being objectified, that's ok for all concerned. If she's not happy about it, then dont.

Shorter version:

Don't be a dick.

As much as I looooove the thinly veiled homophobia from 'em I'd rather they just call me a (RADIO EDIT) so we all know where we stand lol. Always a bit weird to get it from a fetish forum mind. Ah well, not too much surprises me these days

Holy shit. Robby. That was good and legit advice.

Fair enough, I'll admit. I screwed this up. It was never my intention to start the kind of debate that this has become.
I recognise that a lot of people love that kind of objectification, and if I'm honest, I do too lol.
All I'm trying to do is express that UMD was a safe haven fior me having been made to feel like a perverted freak for most of my life.
I want others to share that same acceptance and not have to worry about being harassed if they don't want it. If that's what works for you then fine and that's cool. But not everyone shares that. We're all different.
There's been genuine hate on the back of this post, and I'm so sorry for that. Our thing is fun accepting and weird, and I want to preserve that.

No way man, REALLY glad you posted it!
Its something I've struggled with for a looooooong time.
I jump on here, see what's new, get frustrated and sad that my love life isn't living up to the standards of the posted and commercialized content.. then remember that 99% of this is OBJECTIFICATION and neatly packaged PORN which is designed to SELL, and recall that as awesome and fun as it all is.... it's ALL A MINDSET-designed to be fantasy. And trying to fulfill that fantasy inherently ends in disappointment, where-as true life intimacy and sex results in mind-blowing joy and happiness.

It is very difficult to separate the two; and its easy to fall into the trap of overwhelming lust, and slave-like objectification. Maintaining a healthy and appreciative awareness and respect for the women that personify our fantasies here, and consciously acknowledge that they are nothing more than that-FANTASIES! Can pave the way for future respect and appreciation for the sexually created art that is posted here. Which can then enrich our sexuality in the realm of fantasy, and transfer to our individual experience to provide improved fulfillment in our REAL LIFE relationships.
My .02 cents... took me over 20 years to get to this mindset, and I still struggle to apply it IRL

What's with the "communist" thing? We're all here because we have a fetish. Everyone has the right to express and enjoy their sexuality without having to worry about being pushed into places they don't want to be. Male or female. This has nothing to do with feminism and absolutely nothing to do with politics. Just humanity.
If you happen to like the degradation and punishment side of things then fair enough, but not everyone does - so don't assume

I have to admit, I might not have worded it that well initially but I'm pretty gutted that I'm having to defend this post. It's just human decency to me

Getting back to the original part...

UMD is the intersection of an odd sexual fetish and the internet. Too much sexual stimuli/dopamine really does objectify people's minds. It's just what happens. The internet does the exact same thing as you interact with words and pictures... It's all very alienating when people IM you questions, requests, demands. Some can be very patient and sincere but a couple people who have warped their mind with dopamine chase people away.

But I don't think you'll find a fetish community as a whole that's better. WAM is inherently silly and fun even when it's humiliating. There will always be people too steeped in their vices to have normal human interaction when trying to get their dopamine fix. Outside of reporting and banning those people to police it, I don't think it will change.

I'm just gonna chime in and say three things;

1) As mentioned earlier in the thread, a big disconnect I think is that some people think this is a website for them to meet people to get messy with, rather than a website for all things messy.

There's a personals section for meetups. Outside of that, there's no reason to be messaging someone trying to meet up with them or get dirty pictures from them or flirt with them or whatever.

We're all mostly on here to jerk off. Imagine someone banging open your door while you're masturbating and yelling "Hey you look sexy dear, would love to chat!"... Like; A) "Shut up I'm trying to jerk off". B) "I don't wanna chat. If I did want to chat, I'd be in the CHAT section of this website." C) "That's not how you open a conversation with someone you don't know. Especially if you're trying to flirt.", and D) "Get the fuck out of my room, I'm trying to jerk off!!"

Right?


2) I've never had an issue with being harassed on here that couldn't be solved by just blocking or ignoring someone. I have however been harassed, stalked, blackmailed, and everything inbetween by wam ppl outside of this site. It sucks, it bums me out, it shouldn't be happening, but guess what, It comes with the territory. Putting up with that shit is (unfortunately) part of the deal when you put yourself out there (which is soooo worth it still IMO, more on that below).

Similarly, I've had models cancel shooting with me because ppl were harassing them (Sometimes about me! :blush, and that depresses me greatly every time it happens, but also, it's part of the deal with being involved in a fetish that has an abnormal amount of immaturity and incel-like behavior. It comes with the territory. If I had a smoking fetish, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about all my clothes reeking of cigarettes all the time. It's part of the deal. It just is what it is. _()_/

And while the sucky stuff REALLY sucks, the good parts far outweigh the bad. By putting myself out there, I've made SO many slime friends that I now care deeply about and enjoy more than some of my non-fetish friends, and by openly booking models to slime, I've been able to...well, dump a bunch of slime on some really hot babes that I crush on, and many of them have become friends as well. So like, the juice is worth the squeeze ultimately IMHO.



3) While slime is my primary kink, I do have a few others, all of which are dirtier and more perverse and odd than wam, and all of them are more responsible and respectful communities than this one (despite being more extreme).

That isn't for lack of effort though. I think everyone here tries to do everything they possibly can to make this the best community possible.

However, I think the fact that our kink is "light" and "silly" and very much tied to adolescence (yes, almost all kinks develop during childhood, but not all kinks relate to childhood interests) means that it attracts a lot of immature, un-adjusted, socially inept people, who wouldn't be any less creepy or offensive if you bumped into them at the post office.

They are who they are, they don't understand why their behavior is wrong, or they just don't care, and they also don't understand that that's exactly why they're sad/angry/alone. No amount of posts on here is going to change that. All we can all do is call out bad behavior when we see it, try to help people become better, and try not to let the bad stuff bring us down.

Oh, and one other thing -- re; Objectification: we're here to jerk off! This is a fetish site. For a fetish that is predicated on the objectification of a person (thru mess). So it's OK man! Don't stress about objectifying ppl when you're masturbating. That's totally normal, and totally healthy, and totally fine because it's fantasy, not reality.

It is a-ok to objectify women or men when you're fantasizing. Just don't try to turn your fantasies into reality on here, because that's not how that works, and also not why most of us are on here in the first place (see Point #1 above).

Like, "Hey you look sexy, I'd love to see you in the gungetank" has never once led to 2 strangers that are hundreds (if not thousands) of miles apart, suddenly meeting up to engage in one of their sexual fantasies. I'm sorry, but the conversion rate on that scenario is literally 0%.

At the same time, when a stranger comments to ME that I look sexy and they'd love to see me in the gungetank, I don't consider that "harassment" or problematic.

I think it's dumb (because they like gunge instead of slime) and I think it's lazy (because they haven't done even 30 seconds of research to recognize that I think gunge is dumb and love s l i m e), but the comment to me is as flattering as it is annoying.

And just like me, they're most likely on here to jerk off. So if they wanna jerk off to thinking that I'm going to fly hundreds of miles to sit in a stranger's gungetank so that they can gunge me with stupid thin watery gunge, then I think that's fucking awesome! Good for them! Squeeze your dick til it pops! Rub your clit til your eyes roll back! And have no shame about your fantasies!

Because they're not real. They're just fantasies. And there's nothing wrong with having fantasies (unless your fantasies involve gunge instead of slime )


TLDR;
Nobody should be ashamed of this fetish or objectifying ppl in their fantasies.
Everybody should be the best person they can be in their real life.
None of us should allow actual harassment if/when we see it.
All of us should be jerking off as often as we can.
Slime is better than gunge.

KelseyRose has pretty much nailed it. Been watching this thread but as Lady Jasmine and I were upcountry for the last week didn't want to try and do long replies by phone, though some of the issues are ones we've discussed in detail ourselves.

While "fetish" these days is mainly taken to relate to sexuality and kink, the term originates in archeology, where it refers to "worship of an object". Think of a tribe who create a statue of a deity, and then worship the statue itself as the deity. So in a sexuality context, "fetish" is where you worship (or fixate on) a specific item, or action, or situation - but importantly, it's very non-personal. If someone has a fetish for leather shorts, they'll be turned on by almost anyone wearing leather shorts, and whether they're in a relationship with the wearer or they're just being worn by some random person walking past will make no difference.

So yes, fetish is all about objectification - for most of us here it's about ourselves, and/or one or more members of our preferred gender(s), getting messy, and us getting turned on all the way to orgasm by watching or participating in that. And while everyone has favourite models, at the end of the day they are interchangeable - if someone's into slim girls in pencil skirts sitting in cakes, then any slim girl in a pencil skirt sitting in a cake is going to elicit a very similar reaction. That doesn't mean someone can't strike up a friendship or even a genuine relationship with a slim girl who sits in cakes, but a proper relationship is based on mutual attraction between people on a personal level, which is entirely separate to fetish attraction. This is why the proper answer to "How do I find a partner with a WAM fetish?" is "You find someone you love and who loves you, and who is happy to explore your kinks with you, note you should be happy to explore their kinks too."

The main problem isn't objectification, it's entitlement. It's guys (and it mostly is a straight cis male issue) assuming that because a woman reveals that she's into a certain fetish, she automatically becomes their personal performing monkey to fulfil their personal exact fetish desires on demand. I see this with female friends even outside the fetish sphere, I've a friend who does circus performances and has brightly coloured hair, and gets endlessly pestered by straight men who assume because she's a bit different she's therefore automatically their sexual plaything. That's the kind of attitude that drives women to either leave here, or have a blank profile and never take part in the interactive areas of the site.

MM has done a lot to try and make things better for female members, new female users profiles are automatically locked to only accept messages from approved friends, there's the block functions, etc. But there's only so far that you can solve societal problems with technical fixes, until the underlying core issue of over-entitled guys seeing all women as their personal sex objects regarless of consent, the problem will remain.

Basically it's fine and expected behaviour to objectify posted content, that's what it is for. However wanking to someone's photos or videos does not give anyone any right to demand that the person in the images enter into a personal interaction of any kind. That's the message that needs to be got through to people. Some will want to interact, which is also fine, but no-one should feel they are entitled to a response or a personal relationship.


Aside: On a side issue related to some of the deleted posts in the thread, feminism has nothing at all to do with any form of communism. Basically anyone who believes that women and men should be equal, that anyone, regardless of gender, should be able to do any job that they are capable of doing, that women should be able to vote, own property, drive cars, and go out on their own if they want to, is by default a feminist. I would expect that to include the vast majority of people here, given the alternative is to basically be the Taliban. Of course every movement has it's extremists, but in the same way you wouldn't judge all Christians by the rantings of the Westbro Baptist Church, don't judge feminism by the nonsense from the men-hating fringe. But also be aware of just how much of a threat men are to women - here in the UK, two women a week are murdered by their domestic partners, and there have been cases where guys who couldn't accept that relationships had ended have slaughtered their ex partner and her children, in at least one case via a deliberate gas explosion that put multiple families at risk. Not to mention "incells" going on gun rampages. All of which of course comes back to completely bogus senses of entitlement.