I know Neil was a hero to many (myself included) for his early pie-oneering work as a WAM producer. I'll agree he did plenty of great work back in the day and deserves special props for bringing the immortal Kym into the wet and messy business. I bought and enjoyed a lot of his videos in years past.

But the last time I ordered from Neil, he never sent me the 8 DVDs I paid him for -- and I got the distinct impression that he shortchanged a good number of other people around the same time. This was five years ago, and I sent him many emails over a period of quite a few months following this. One of the first emails I sent he answered personally, saying he'd get the DVDs out soon, but they never came. The other eight or nine emails either went completely unanswered or were replied to with stock emails sent to a group of people saying things like "Please, everybody, be patient and I'll eventually make everything right." (Meanwhile, I continued to get spam emails from PieFightGirls advertising sales in their store. So his business continued, even if fulfillment was faltering badly.) Eventually I gave up after ten or so emails had failed to produce any meaningful response.

About 15 months after I'd made that order, Neil disappeared from the UMD; it was said that he had some kind of serious health crisis. Whether or not this crisis was invented, greatly exaggerated, or entirely real, I have no way of knowing. (Nobody doubted it at the time, except perhaps some of us who had been burned by the guy's shady business practices.) At any rate, the health scare certainly gave Neil a great reason to duck out of the community with plenty of unfinished business dangling. He reappeared on the UMD briefly about a year ago and said that anyone he owed anything should contact him and he'd make it right. I sent him several more emails reminding him of the DVDs I never got, and he ignored every one of them. So even this apparent effort to make things right was just another sham.

In another recent thread (https://umd.net/forums/another-period) UMD member protostar8 accused Neil of ripping off the current owner of PieFigthGirls on what was clearly a much larger deal involving the transfer of the PieFightGirls business. I knew nothing about this; protostar8's message said to ask Neil for details... but I say good luck getting any kind of answer at all out of that fucker. I spoke privately with the new PieFightGirls owner, however, who indicated there were many outstanding items currently unfulfilled in the arrangement, but didn't want to air specific details in public.

The transfer of the PieFightGirls business happened about a year ago, so it's a much fresher piece of business than the unfulfilled orders I'm upset about. Hopefully Neil will follow through on his promises and not leave the new owner out to dry. But after waiting five years on my own transaction, I'm tired of keeping the old dirty laundry to myself. Celebrate Neil as a hero if you want to, but be aware that he has been untrustworthy and downright dishonest in at least some of his dealings over the past five years. Should Neil miraculously decide to make good on his old obligations, I will do the right thing and let the forum know that he did eventually follow through. But I sure won't hold my breath for that.

i never got my DVDs either.

My advice is the second you realize you got burned, contact MM. This way he's at least made aware and can either help facilitate, choose to issue a warning to the community or ban the user.

The worse thing you can do is "suck it up" which leaves more people open to getting ripped off.

While I'm not making excuses for him, I can tell you that Neil very much DID have a health crisis... And almost died... But nearly as importantly, he racked up HUGE medical expenses along the way. Again, not an excuse. But I just don't want people to get the impression he's living it up on some tropical island with all the money from DVDs he never sent.

It does suck when a producer you trust lets you down from a business perspective... Unfilled orders, customs, etc. At least in the download age it doesn't happen *quite* as much anymore. There were a couple folks in the early 2000s who got banned for "failure to ship," and I know Phoebe was notorious even in her heyday for being bad about shipping orders.

ANYWAY. I've known Neil for years so I can't speak bad about him on this forum. At the same time, I don't want to belittle your frustration with him. Let me try to reach out to him and see what I can find.

If anyone has any outstanding business to take care of, please let me know at pfg@piefightgirls.com, and include any previous correspondence or receipts you might have. I'll do my best to follow up with Neil on the concern.

Thanks

Nice response. And yes, he did have a health crisis. However, he has had plenty of time outside the hospitals but chose to be a bum and ignore his commitments. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to burn some DVD's and get them mailed.

I can tell you that there are some other producers here (not naming names) that know what's going on with Neil and are fully aware of how crappy he is.

BTW, if anyone has MASTER copies of any of the PFG work (b/c Neil did sell copies of them as I have a few), please contact the new owner. I'm sure he'll make it worth your while.

One last thing...the new owner likes contraptions and customs. So if you guys have any ideas, pitch them either my way or his. I have agreed to help him figure out if things are reasonably build-able.

Contraptions! I actually have a super brilliant idea that I've only mentioned to protostar, so if it leaks I know who spilled the beans! What I need is a handyman in the Central Florida area to make it happen. It will be legendary!

You have my attention...

My situation is almost exact to pieromanic_too's & I had someone messaging me on UMD with a similar situation as well. I've ordered 4 VHS tapes of scenes from Neil 4 different times before & never had a problem then, was earlier in his WAM career as you can tell by me ordering VHS tapes lol.

I would've informed MM but it was Neil & I never had trouble with him before plus he kept saying him or his wife would send them out asap. When it was like a year later I thought it'd be too late for MM to do anything though. Next time something like this happens, I'll be sure to inform MM way sooner no matter who it is.

Hey Robby

I did not know you entertain people at such exclusive restuarants

Lenny

Unfortunately, I too had a similar experience with Neil a few years back although it wasn't as bad as the OP. I actually purchased a pretty large orders and got maybe 80% of the DVDs. Unfortunately, Neil did not mail out the final set of DVDs, and some of the DVDs sent to me were also blanks

Unfortunately Neil did let people down towards the end of his Piefightgirls career probably due to health issues.

After having several excellent customs from him I comissioned one which he was more elaborate than the others with the aim of getting a specific model. This was a costly experience and while Neil made contact every so often afterwards (when he was trying to sell videos mostly) and promised to get it done it never materialised.

This is not uncommon and buyers need to be aware and ensure providers are active.

Similar thing happened to with Fawn as well (videographer ran off with the custom) and with a British model Jenny Badeua who shot with dunktankbabes who I had seen for a session so my advice is to buy downloads when you can and always deal with people you are certain are producing and be aware for any unusual requests.

Good luck and I hope it all resolves itself. You never know I might even get my old custom

Hi all,
I'm another of those that got burned. I kept it to myself aside from a few private messages, but since this is out in the open I might as well share my story as well. I ordered and paid for some DVDs two years ago that I never received; as others have said, Neil was good enough at answering emails and promising to take care of things that I didn't report it. Then it had been over a year and it seemed too late. I eventually gave up because life is just too short and it wasn't a large amount, but nobody likes to get ripped off. I contacted the new owner of Piefightgirls when the transfer was made (to try and make sure I didn't get left out) and he basically told me it was Neil's responsibility, but if that has changed I will be happy to forward the (numerous!) emails Neil and I exchanged. I don't expect to get anything at this point, but I would settle for some download credit. It is really a shame because it has poisoned any enjoyment I had for a producer who really did some great work.

Wait, one of them wasn't Carla, was it? Because if so, that crook sold the same model twice!!!

Dude... I sent them FedEx overnight. Even included instructions. That's on you.

I emailed Matt, the new PFG owner, my situation along with the DVDs I had ordered & every single email & UMD message with Neil regarding the situation. Matt replied back 3 hours later, way way sooner than I expected him to, apologizing for what I had to go through & I got sent 2 emails from the PFG vidtown store with order numbers to download the scenes I had ordered for no extra cost. It very satisfying after the last scene finished downloading to finally have everything I ordered after 2 years! If any of you have any outstanding business with Neil, I strongly recommend emailing Matt if you haven't already, pfg@piefightgirls.com, explaining your situation, what you ordered, & include every message & email you had with Neil regarding it. You won't be disappointed!

Rich, I ... think I might know where those ended up.

I've got to hand it to the new PieFightGirls owner -- he's a class act who's gone out of his way to right the wrongs left behind by Neil, despite having no legal obligation to do so. Just as described by blueslimed26 above, the guy sent me free download links to all of the videos contained on the 8 DVDs I ordered from Neil and never got. He also did this within a matter of hours of me emailing him all my old correspondence with Neil.

What a refreshing change of pace for PFG -- someone who actually responds quickly and follows through on what he says he's going to do! Technically, we ripped-off folks he's giving these downloads to aren't even his customers since he's never gotten a cent from any of us. But I predict I will become a PFG customer once again when he puts some of his new videos up for sale; the guy has really generated some good will with me.

Robby,

regarding restaurant bills, if I have to pay back Lenny for all the wining and dining Lenny has given Tracie and I over the last 20 years.... I would have to take out a 2nd mortgage or Lenny would own my house by now.....cos from Lenny's point of view there are only 3 things worth living for....fine wining and dining, fine horse racing investments, and fine women covered in cream pies....what more is there to life that this !!!

Seriously, I have nothing to say about Neil because I did not know him, but I have encountered several business partners who let me down and many customers over the years who have perpetrated various scams. Customers using stolen credit cards are common but worse....we had several people from the anonymous hackers group trying to bring down our sites with DOS (denial of service) attacks and malicious attempts to deface our sites. It is par for the course that 95% of the people you encounter in any business world are honest people...and the other 5% are not. Stuff happens.....e.g. ordering some DVDs and not getting them is something that can happen to any consumer, but on the producer side we encounter the much greater rip offs...i.e. in 5 cases in the last 8 years I encountered video partners requesting financing to buy camera gear in order to produce content for my sites, and once I sent them the money to buy the camera gear needed, they just promptly pocketed the money and disappeared off the face of the earth and I never heard from them again, so I have lost several grand over scams like that in recent years.

Over the last 20 years I have lost thousands due to scams from business partners and customers....but I never lost a dime when dealing with the models...and that's because we never pay models upfront for services and they only get paid once we have the footage in the can and they have signed the release forms.

MK

You're saying this like it's a common thing and thus it is somehow acceptable or at least not so bad because it happens commonly?



Of course you face greater risks, because you're a business and you regularly have to spend a lot of money to fund your projects -- far more than people just buying videos (unless perhaps they are buying hundreds of videos per year). The more money you pour into anything, the larger your risk that the "bad 5%" you mention will screw you out of it. That seems to be your point, and no one can argue against that, but it's not really a "worse" ripoff than Neil's walking away with the money customers paid for unfulfilled customs and DVD orders: It's the exact same brand of ripoff on a bigger scale. It's someone stealing money from someone else. [And by the way, if you've been ripped off by FIVE different video partners over the last eight years, I'd say the bad apples must be a lot more than 5% of the batch. Either that, or you are a lousy judge of business partners.]

For what it's worth, Neil has made life as a new business owner hell for the new PFG owner by failing to fulfill many terms of their agreement of the transfer of the business. The new owner's potential damages are easily in the ballpark that you describe for your own cumulative losses over the years. It's possible Neil will still come through on all his promises to the new owner (way behind schedule) but that is far from a given at this point, given Neil's record over the past five years.

For that matter, any one of us could get screwed over for several thousand by an auto mechanic or even for ten or twenty thousand by a housing contractor who "invents" a problem we don't have and then charges us to "fix" it. And then there are shady financial managers who screw people out of their life savings via poor or even bogus investment schemes. Does the bigger scale of such ripoffs make it easier to swallow the thousands you've lost to shitty video partners?

I didn't think so.

Well, at the end of the day, this all boils down to one thing, unfulfilled obligations. No matter what reason a person might have (except for death), if you don't fulfill your responsibilities to someone in a timely fashion, then you have NOBODY but yourself to blame and you should do EVERYTHING in your power in the MOST EXPEDIENT fashion to right the situation. This still hasn't happened. Could Neil turn things around, certainly. But as it stands, the man I thought of as a hero to the community has been a major let down. Again, I'm sorry I can't share the details of what all has happened, but I'm sure things will come to light one day. The new owner has the patients of a saint.

Hmm... I know of one producer who is a member of the UMD (intentionally I won't name them however they will know who they are) who had a health crisis within their family. They took time out from their WAM sites so they could help look after another family member who was directly involved with the health scare. That meant I didn't see any updates or receive the orders I had made for 12 months.

The point I'm making is that I would have thought, as with Neil's situation, that recovering from a serious illness was of more importance than anything else.

pieromaniac_too, I don't think I quite got your point about Neil. Could you explain it again, perhaps in a bit more detail?

Funny. I hear you saying that in Paul Lynde's bitchiest voice.

And when Neil himself finally shows up to this "party," here's guessing he'll be speaking in the voice of a pissed-off Agnes Moorehead.

While still appearing as crossdressing Walton Goggins.

Baskin Robbins always finds out....

Baskin Robbins don't play.

I can't go into the details as the new owner asked me not to. I'm being forced to bow out of the conversation by Neil. Anyone that wants the details can PM me directly.

From reading the other post, I figured what the hell, and contacted Matt, the new PFG owner about my past transaction with Neil.

I'm very happy with the resolution. Matt was willing to provide the missing contents that Neil owed me from 2012, even though he was not obligated too. As I have "written off" those undelivered products, this was a nice surprise for me too.

I do hope that the new PFG works out, and we'll get to see new scenes soon!

Hi Matt, just checking in to collect on that undelivered handjob from Kymberly Jane that PFG promised me back in ought-six.

Tks!