What a MONUMENTAL LOAD of shit I see from fanatical hysterical
antiMarxists & antiGreen conservatives spewing INSULTS & ATTACKS
for Dr Jill Stein doing EXACTLY WHAT ALL THE DEMS & PUBS have
screamed should be done throughout the election:
KEEPING ELECTIONS HONEST & FREE OF FRAUD.

Where are all the cries of "election fraud" & "voting fraud" NOW
from Trumpanzees, AFTER HE WON?

What a MONUMENTAL LOAD OF BULLSHIT from Trumpanzees.
They ALL supported WASTING MASSIVE TAX DOLLARS on
the FBI investigating NON-existent "crimes" like Hillary's emails
& Bill Clinton's sexcapades.

THERE WERE MANY OTHER CANDIDATES IN THIS ELECTION, TOO!
How fucking clueless all republicans & democrats & media are about that.
This recount is about counting the # of votes for:
Zoltan Istvan, Transhumanist Party
Clifton Roberts, Humane Party
Dr Jill Stein, Green Party
Gloria La Riva and Eugene Puryear, Socialism and Liberation Party
Monica Moorehead and Lamont Lilly, Workers World Party
Alyson Kennedy and Osborne Hart, Socialist Workers Party
and all the other parties & candidates who ran for office.
These last 4 parties were on the ballot in NJ.

I don't want Hillary Clinton to be President.
I want Zoltan Istvan or Dr Jill Stein or Clifton Roberts to be President.

These UTTERLY SELF-UNAWARE Trumpanzees are EXACTLY why
I advocate freeing everyone from prison, since prisoners' times should not be waste, since there is no proof that anyone in the history of the world
has ever done anything illegal or is a "crime" -
including things *I* don't like.

This is the First Law of Logic: The Law of Explosion.
This is what you get when you verbally deny and actively show by your physical resistance to do anything about massively proved crises & dangers (anthropogenic global warming), deny evolution, deny moonlanding, insanely buy into Jew-blaming conspiracy crap that WILDLY exaggerates the power & control of some tiny MINORITY (e.g. Jews, but it could be anyone) on the planet.

It's your own damned fault when others deny YOUR claims of some "illegality" or "crime". If that's the world you want to live in -
where NO objective truth or proof exists & ALL opinions IMAGINABLE on ANY idea or topic deserve equal respect & actualization by government & law - fine. But you have to accept ALL the consequences.

And yet people who say that never say that when it's an injustice
(i.e. unfairness, a false assumption, a false generalization)
done by someone they think is "liberal" or a "communist"
like humanities majors calling them "racist" or "sexist".

And I have a new concept you can look into.....

It's called FRESH AIR! Get out and get some.

Four walls are making you paranoid.

did we ask jedi knight what he does? bc i dont recall him getting on here and bragging about what he does....i mean. not trying to be a dick at all but name dropping your phd's doesnt make you any more right or any more wrong.
I feel like your words just speak for themselves. Not your degrees.
i have enough college credits to have 2 bachelors but i changed my mind so much, i dont have a degree.
I am a complete and total moron most the time, i am dingy as fuck and i cant run a computer to save my life yet, i have common sense and I do have the knowledge to know how to approach others in a manner where they MAY listen and retort.
when you stated about your phd, i am just helping you out here, for real....but that automatically is going to make ppl completely ignore anything you have to say. I know ppl who do not even have a high school diploma who blow me away with how fucking intelligent they are and the amount of candor and intellect they carry.
a phd will not get you that.
speak your mind! dont let a degree speak for you that you are reputable bc of THAT. let your words speak!!
and i promise i am NOT being a jerk. I just have seen too many ppl get ignored after they start dropping names, degrees, etc. to try to get a point across.
i promise, promise, promise, i am just pointing out something I see happen a lot and am trying to help ya out here, darling

I know: you don't have the brain capacity to read.

Like you said: anything is justified & everyone should just get over it,
once something is in the past.

Why do you think I enjoyed when random YouTubers like Creamyy posted
their copies of producers' videos for so long and I never reported it?

I didn't cause that to happen. I just reaped the free benefits.

Like you said: what I've said now is in the past.

And like PiedFolfy admitted: he didn't even read what I said.

So of course nobody with brain or intelligence is going to bother to
read what you or Jayce says.

You are just sets of atoms to me. I'm a nihilist, baby.
Your particular life experiences are worthless.
If you refuse to do math, you're worthless.

Remember: you & Jayce are the ones who don't care about consequences.
Because you are excusing the millions of others who also don't care about
consequences.

um....
i was being nice to you
that was really rude.
i actually like you, dude. i was just trying
to help you out before these dudes ripped you apart.
sorry.
if you would have read what i said, you would have seen that i didn't speak a
word of politics...i was honestly just trying to be nice and let you know that "dropping phd's" wasnt gonna get a point across and to USE your words bc you seem like a really smart guy
but you wanna be an ass?
thats cool. still got love for ya.
im a lover, not a fighter.
ill let them to continue to rip into you.
i was only trying to be nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpi3F0E5ro

JediKnight: I'd be just as pissed if Hillary Clinton had won.
Then they'd be rubbing THEIR videos into YOUR AND MY faces.

Also - MAJOR point I forgot to mention -
recounts are ALSO important to COUNT ALL THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS
(which I & my friends use to vote), which would also include
many of the military. Not that I care about them.
A soldier or cop is just a terrorist who gets paid.

JediKnight:
Some of my favorite videos on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_ndJ9O1DM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0XKcqdjle4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAMlF3KO1vs


Jayce: if you do not address the points in my original post,
and start with the unfalsifiable unquantifiable psychology bullshit,
then you are not being nice.

I am a complete reductionist & antinatalist, too.

So... the that Stein and Trump have in common that I like is that they're very skeptical of all of the bombing and intervention that we're doing on behalf of Saudi Arabia... like how we're now trying to get rid of Assad in Syria and Bombing Houthi rebels in Yemen... or deposing Qaddaffi etc.

That aside if Stein was really trying to make sure the elections were fair and accurate she would have called for a recount in New Hampshire and Nevada as well where the margins were as close (if not closer) and there were reports of voting abnormalities... like stacks of absentee ballots being found or machines not working.

I'm honestly confused why she's intervening from the side of Clinton other than buyers remorse. She came down hard against Clinton (but probably thought Clinton would still win?) Or maybe she is getting a lot of money from people?

But like other's said... life is bigger than politics. If you keep voting for third parties you should be use to them being the whipping boy for whichever major party they are perceived to take votes from. It's fine to vent but starting an argument here seems silly. (Yes and argument, your tone was fairly hostile in the beginning, so that's what you were after).

Aero writes:


Stein isn't coming down against Clinton. Or Trump. The re-count she is carrying on about is garbage.

This is all a big publicity stunt to get lots of BIG donations and LOTS of free air-time on the news.

She will milk this publicity cow for all its worth. Especially when it comes to donations.

Only the gullible are heartened by her claims of "integrity". :ahahah:

Frankly, I don't understand why Republicans would not have OVERWHELMINGLY voted for a war hero: John McCain.

I don't care which country invades which other countries.
I just care about who they attack & for what reasons.
And that is the ONLY thing anyone should care about.
Making the good outweigh the bad for those who deserve it.

I would not mind the US getting into an all-out nuclear war with
some other country that equally oppresses some large yet easily
attackable subset of its population
- e.g. prisoners, both human & nonhuman.

There is no proof that moving atoms around in such a way is a
"negative" thing to the vast majority of people, who are too stupid to
compute cause-&-effect.

And the NSA complaining about Edward Snowden is just a HUGE publicity stunt to get more crocodile tears for the NSA.

And the army wasting Bradley Manning's time in prison over absolutely nothing is just because soldiers & military people love getting rich
because they have NO-stress jobs and have nothing important to do.

GOOD for Dr Stein to earn as MUCH money for the Green Party as she can.

That's the great thing about logic: EVERYTHING negative you said against Dr Stein & the Green Party (namely, MILKING MONEY for doing something YOU don't like but that *I* think is INCREDIBLY important) applies
to ANY time-wasting legalistic investigation.

Like time-wasting legalistic BULLSHIT prosecuting Bill Clinton over
NOTHING that physically hurt anyone. Or prosecuting OJ Simpson just
because people die. People die every day.

Again, those who don't hold math PhDs never did anything hard in their lives. Therefore, they cannot comprehend logic.

This is why I CHEER & CELEBRATE whenever I hear conservatives die by ANY means (cancer, rape, war, "terrorism") or lose a kid (I feel sorry for the kid). It's just SORE LOSERS.

Don't tell me those are "important" events -
e.g. losing a father or mother or daughter or son in a "terrorist" attack -
when you do not even have the mental capacity to compute the
MAGNITUDE of the TRILLIONS of dollars of UNEARNED UNDESERVED money that Republicraps & Demopubs get from the taxpayer, from the big bad govt they supposedly oppose.

It's like the anti-green energy HYPOCRITES who ridicule
solar & wind power for getting a piddling 5 million dollars a year
while DOING NOTHING TO STOP TRILLIONS IN WELFARE
in SO many forms - INCLUDING FREE MILITARY SUPPORT -
for fossil fuels & meat industry.

Of COURSE I am going to tell people whatever they want to hear to get anything out of them - until they can mathematically prove they are worthy otherwise.

Damn FUCKING right I support prisoners gunning down & killing cops
if some bastard activist judge tries to take them to court over
unprovable untestable unquantifiable welfare "fraud" or lying to a police officer.

Again, I have ZERO legal obligation to believe anyone's THEORIES that ANYTHING they do is worthwhile or that their lives have any quantifiable worth or require any hard work or skill until you show me a logically mathematical model showing everyone's sacrifices for important causes are valued logically - i.e. proportional to the sacrifice & hardship.

You think I'd give a FUCk if North Korea nuked the US?
Fuck YEAH! Then we can nuke them back, and "accidentally"
nuke some other fascist nationalist countries - e.g. Saudi Arabia, Iran -
countries that starve & imprison people for the trivially unimportant unfalsifiable unquantifiable bullshit such as not being "patriotic" or "nationalistic" enough - instead of for real reasons -
over breeding & arrogantly thinking you are entitled to force your kids
to take care of you when you're older, and eating meat just because of some stupid dog-meat festival in China where dogs & cats are skinned alive or boiled alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AA8DjQzcw

enjoy

lost cause.

still got love even though you admit to being
one of the ppl us store owners talk about trolling and
not buying shit and just looking for freebies. cool beans.
still got love.
hope all this works out for ya.

Let him rant so others will know his madness.

Nothing needs to be said. His posts speak for themselves.

Same with yours & Jayce's, JediKnights.
Everyone will see how worthless & mentally ill you are.

You're just making yourself look bad with your crazy talk.

Thank you. You finally learned logical consistency.

Zoidberg is on the correct side of the broader issue: that Trump's win signals a massive shift towards fascism in America. That said, I don't see the point in discussing it in this venue. And I don't see why Jayce was attacked for her sensible and kind contribution.


In logic, the idea of 'explosion' is that anything follows from a contradiction. i.e., if I were to say, "It's raining and it's also not raining, therefore, I'm a monkey's uncle." That isn't an axiom, or fundamental law of logic, but it can be shown through proofs (at least, in *some* systems). That's a bit different from saying that bullshit and delusions are contagious (which they, of course, are).

Nein writes:


Because radical nuts don't care who they hurt. They just want what they want. That's why Jayce was attacked despite her gentle pleas.

I wasn't intending to respond to this thread anymore because I had had my fun playing "Poke the Stick at the Meltdown Freak" but I am curious to hear, Nein, in your words, why you feel Trump's free and fair election "signals a massive shift towards fascism in America".

Remember, I want your words. Don't cut and paste and bunch of junk from some loony lefty site. I like to debate people, not links.

Doesn't mean I'll reply back. Just curious to read your take on it.

Also, try and keep it short and sweet. I'm here for the mess, not to read essays or manifestos.

OK. Let's say fascism is a) corporate governance, b) effected through military and police enforcement, that c) worships the will over reason and truth.

Everybody who makes it onto the ticket in the major parties is a corporate crony of one kind or other. Trump's cabinet choices make it pretty clear he's more of the same (a), though he's uniquely and forcefully explicit about it. Also, it's pretty uncontroversial that (c) he lies all the time, flip-flops, etc. Basically everyone across the ideological spectrum who is serious about the question agrees about those things.

That leaves (b). America is a militant, patriot state. It tolerates unequal enforcement of law, where vulnerable citizens face the threat of death and injury from police without due process, with drug laws designed to entrap those populations in prison. Trump didn't make that state, but he will command it, and probably worsen it. He has that inclination, if you remember his eagerness to encourage assault of dissenters.

(And keep in mind that it's irrelevant that he was elected. Hitler was also elected, and was still a fascist. You can be a fascist without having done a coup.)

You are comparing Trump to Hitler? You wonder why the American population isn't taken this seriously. :ahahah:

"Fascism" is basically defined as: 'a political system headed by a dictator in which the government controls business and labor and opposition is not permitted.'

Does that sound like what Trump is doing? Taking over all businesses, nationalize all business and labor? Squelch all dissent? I haven't seen it.

Let's keep in mind Trump hasn't even taken office yet, and won't for another month-and-a-half.

Heck, in fact, it was Obama that was doing all that with his quasi-socialist polices. He was the one trying to have government running everything with bailouts and heavy regulation.

As far as squelching dissent, go talk to those folks who innocently tried to start or maintain conservative and Tea Party think-tanks and groups that were harassed and bullied by the IRS and the Justice Dept. under Obama's watch.

Honestly, I don't think you Canadians even know what a "fascist" is. Especially since your idiot Prime Minister just recently praised a dead fascist dictator in Castro.

If you want to know what a fascist dictator is and what a country run under one looks like, look no further than Cuba. We in America have thousands and thousands of Cuban exiles living in Florida as they risked life and limb on rickety rafts and broken down skiffs to get here, and I assure you it wasn't for the Spring Break festivities. It was to escape a monster.

It's been amusing watching those on the left praising or mourning Castro (like Jill "recounts can make you rich" Stein) while at the same time condemning Trump, who hasn't done anything yet.

No offense, but I think you need to educate yourself a little more about "fascism", and what it really is, and it's not "I don't agree with this guy's political views... so he must be a fascist". :ohbruther:

Why don't we give Trump a chance before we give these silly declarations.

Agreed. Before commencing to resist, we should give Trump just as much of a chance as the Republican congress gave to President Obama.

Was that supposed to be a put-down? :ohbruther:

Didn't work, freak-out boy. I'm not a Republican.

And trying to imply that I am "Good German" (i.e., a Nazi) is even more idiotic.

You do realize that the Nazis were LEFT-wing, paper-hanging SOCIALISTS, don't you? :ahahah:

Actually, most of the American population, including the right, have asserted comments of precisely that sort. That included the vast majority of traditionally -- even trenchantly -- conservative publications. Often using very clear, very harsh rhetoric, sometimes bordering on histrionics.

As for the comparison, it was made specifically in order to dismantle the idea that a democratically elected candidate must not be a fascist. That was your suggestion, and it is false.


You seem to have rebuked your own argument, so I don't feel obliged to comment on it.


Yes, these are traditional (and compelling) reasons to worry about state socialism: its economic connection to fascism, especially when it comes hand-in-hand with militarization. And I have indicated to you that, indeed, Trump did not make these conditions: they have been developing for some time. The problem is that he will exploit them.

The rest of the post is a tangent, so I'll ignore it for now. I could grant you every point (Trudeau and Castro suck, leftists suck, etc.) and it wouldn't have any effect on the question at hand.

And your contention that, Nein, that Trump is going to be a fascist that is going to take advantage of all the government-control regulations Obama and the left have put in place (as well as other entities) is just plain nonsense.

You have nothing to back it up. If anyone would've taken advantage of the semi-socialist nanny state Obama has tried to create for the last 8 years, it would've been Clinton.

Trump took no large donations from investors or special interests groups during the campaign. He funded much of his campaign himself. So he isn't beholden to any special interests groups or lobbyists. Only to the people that voted for him.

Trump is taking NO SALARY for the job as President. Though I don't know if he is waiving it or donating it.

He even called on Boeing to cancel the order to make his administration two "Air Force One" jets (which would cost of $4 Billion to the taxpayers), as he felt it would be more economical to fit the jets he already owns in his fleet with the security measures.

I don't know if Trump will be a good President or not. Only the future can tell that.

But a fascist? As I said, Nein, I don't think you know what a true fascist is.

Good debate, though. Nice to have someone reasonable and intelligent to chat with.

Hey, you know who else declined his salary? I could tell you but you'd invoke Godwin's Law. The message is that he doesn't work for us, he works for himself.

Incidentally, he's supposed to be "beholden" to all of us, not just the 20% of Americans who voted for him.

Too bad.

Like any victorious candidate, the concerns of his constituents and those that were there for him (i.e. those who voted for him) will come first.

Why should someone like you get a place at the table or get to be heard first? You didn't even want him in office. You weren't there for him.

Trump, as President, will address all concerns. However, some will come before others.

Wait your turn. As Obama said in 2009 when he became President of the United States..... "I WON!"

As to your "20%" snideness, who cares. :ohbruther:

I think he got more than 20% of the American population voting for him, but if it was just 10% what difference does it make? He won the election. Those that didn't vote for whatever reasons (indifferent, lazy, busy), they don't get to complain now. They had their chance to "speak up" with their vote. They chose not to.

If the non-voters are going to let 20% of the population decide who is going to lead the entire population, so be it.

It is what they chose.

Well, all of this is forecasting, if that's what you mean. One of the things you are permitted to take for granted in a conversation is that everyone involved knows the date of the calendar. I assumed that we were all clear on that front.

But there's no question that *he* -- the person -- is a fascist along the lines of one of the three criteria I mentioned: unilateralism, or will-fetishism. That, I suppose, is something you've conceded, or at least, are not interested in discussing. It may even be a trait you admire.

The second trait is his militarism. As far as that goes, I didn't mention his white nationalism and xenophobia, thinking it too obvious. I guess not. So, consider them mentioned.

You prefer to focus on the third trait: corporatism. As evidence that he is not a corporate crony, you argue that he took no large donations from investors or special interest groups, he is not taking a salary as President, and that he will not be using Boeing jets. These are all interesting promises, though symbolic gestures.

His material promises are more interesting. That is, promises when it comes to *government* and its operations: his Cabinet choices, his Supreme Court nomination, his choice for governing the EPA, and so on. In all those respects he has behaved exactly as you would expect an autocrat to behave: appoint special interest representatives. These are the people who will run the government. It is almost as if you elected Enron for President.


You might note that your definition coincides with mine (keeping in mind that mine was drawn from memory and personal opinion, as you asked).