"The United States is also a one-party state, but with typical American extravagance, they have two of them" - Julius Nyerere

As a member of the much feared MARXIST ,ANTIFA, LEFTIST SUPERSOLDIER blah blah blah , I'm not really saying anything that a whole generation of black people from George Jackson to Fred Hampton to Kwame Ture have said about America and its ingrained white supremacy (much to the annoyance of dear old Enigma, the left isn't just whichever war hawk or segregationist the Democrats put up). I'd recommend some humanism anyhow. Look deep into your history and try to understand everything from the Tulsa massacre to Wounded Knee to the MOVE bombings that killed several young children and other such events, and think about why this occurred and how. If you look at all that, and still reach the same conclusions, then I don't know what else I can tell ya's.

Good to see others on the forum speak up for LGBT+, working class and black rights considering the plague of murder that still haunts our communities. Here in Britain, it may seem less blatant than America but it still exists and many of us still have the scars from the Miners Strike, the nail bombings in '99 and the murders of Stephen Lawrence, Blair Peach, among others.

Anyhow fuck Biden and his crime bill as well as that cunt Trump. Rather than some rich shock jock playing populist, here's Fred Hampton (shot to death and executed whilst he slept in his bed by cops at the age of 21) speaking about some truths that are as real now as they were then.

"If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power." - Kwame Ture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBNoLJSLS8

I didn't "go through" your history. I don't have time or interest in going on a fishing expedition because Bad Man on Internet. What I did was *remember* the post. I remember how I thought it was petulant and inane trolling, and I remember that it led me to make some pretty decisive conclusions about your character at the time. Since then, you've only conformed to that pattern, which is really the only reason I brought it up.

That's not how it works. If someone in 2020 still plans on voting for Trump there is literally no possible way of changing their minds. They're not human. The only way is to encourage the rest of us. And BTW, check the polling. It seems to be working.

What post? I am a center-right moderate on most issues, I hold no extreme positions on anything beyond my stance on being anti-war, in which I am fairly far in my views.

If I said something silly or stupid, that happens, you've probably done that before as well (gasp!), but it's kind of hard to defend oneself against this murky ambiguous, "Well you said SOMETHING!" line.

> His post-election post four years ago was consistent with the black pill reactionary schtick.

How? What? What is a 'black pill'? Simply saying you might watch a single show on Fox once in awhile and aren't into far left extremism?

THAT is a big problem, but no comment on me being a 'vile piece of shit' as that one lunatic is ranting about?

Seriously, what the fuck.

Also, okay so someone pointed out an exchange from Tucker, as I'd asked about what he said on his show that made him so racist.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/03/tucker-carlson-racist-comments-bubba-love-sponge.html

This was the exchange (and btw, I thought it was as bad as any of you I'm sure). They went through 2006-2009 clips of him from some shock jock appearances and he said some stupid things, although they did not both linking the actual audio, so who the fuck knows.

I don't know. Yeah, bad stuff but why so selective? At that time, Joe Biden was saying same-sex marriages were wrong and immoral. Why don't any of you hold him to that now? Oh - that's right, because you don't care, you ONLY care when it's the wrongthink person, then it's fair game. When Joe Biden is accused of sexual misconduct, says stupid shit, puts racist laws that directly go after blacks and he brags about it, Naaaaah, who cares.

Potatoman-J, I owe you an apology. I don't think I said anything, but during the pile up and being called a vile piece of shit, I might have jumped to a mental conclusion you were part of that but after seeing you outline your actual positions and thoughts, you have my respect.

Yup, both parties are pretty terrible, all these candidates are pretty lacking. I think you're a little harsh on Trump ('history of failed businesses' yeah, but then again almost all made money and he's a multi-billionaire, come on) but the narcissism and lying stuff, I won't argue too hard there. It's not like you're holding back when you slam the other side of the isle, which I can always respect.

What I can't grasp are these pearl-clutchers who get so upset about something, but so selectively, I already touched on that. And I agree, I liked Tulsi Gabbard a lot, although in my case less because of her domestic positions, but I absolutely loved her foreign policy approach. She would have been good I think, way too principled a person for politics though. Probably why she's retiring.

NorthernWAM, I actually don't have any problem with anything you said. I may not agree, but it's always good when people want to highlight issues they find important. Way too much with the broken media, they only talk about certain things or when they do talk about an actually important issue, like racism, they twist it in ways towards their own agenda and corporatism. I hate that but I respect genuine and honest people, whether I agree or not. I often evolve or change my mind or rethink things anyway, so it's a good thing to hear different ideas provided they're not filtered through corporate interests or as political propaganda (like, say, John Oliver)

diesgoshay, you're a small minded dope. Stay salty, my non-friend. I'm sure screaming like a dumbass is going to work out real good for you in the long term as I'm pretty sure grown adults throwing temper tantrums is going to be the new big thing in 2021. So you are sure to be a trailblazer in that regard.

OUT, enjoy

It was the new thing in 2016. You voted for the temper tantrum throwing adult. You think he's a great guy. You're also equating Biden being against gay marriage (and absolutely NOT saying gays were bad or immoral, you just made that part up out of whole cloth) to Carlson calling Iraqis monkeys. Do you see how that's arguing in bad faith, piecub? Do you see how engaging with the pile of hot garbage is useless, as he calls John Oliver an political propagandist but thinks Tucker Carlson is playing it straight?
Put your white enigma hood back on, fire up another episode about Carlson complaining about brown people, and kindly go fuck yourself.

It's a LOT more than what you've said in this one thread, and you know it.

Over the last five years or so, you've often brought up politics on threads where it hadn't existed before and you've consistently badmouthed -- and in vicious, belitting, "shaming" (to use your term) ways -- a wide variety of ideas on the left, and not just the far left (although of course you surely judge the dividing line differently than I do.) I guess you think it's just "common sense" to dismiss what you consider the "lunatic far left" ... your much self-proclaimed open-mindedness and moderation can only be extended so far .. but watch others leaning to the far right and hey, WOW, Enigmahood doesn't flinch in defending a bunch of racist assholes like Trump and Carlson (who is so clearly every bit the political propagandist that John Oliver is that your failure to be able to see this is incredibly telling about the bubble you yourself are trapped inside. And I know you don't consider Trump and Carlson far right, but when it comes to their racism and xenophobia, they certainly qualify at least in that one area).

And make no mistake about it, Carlson is a straight-up racist -- he's just learned to cover his ass a little better since those radio talk show days. White supremacists are very open about the fact that you can badmouth "immigrants" all you want and largely side-step accusations of racism (at least from overly literal racist defenders, like you, who refuse to read between lines and demand to see a quote from someone that is "directly racist"). Trump and Carlson took that ball and ran really, really far with it ... it's pretty much foolproof, as long as you're only talking to people who have been spoonfed subtly racist white-America-first pablum all their lives without even realizing what they've swallowed and incorporated into their own systems. I think times are changing, though, and some of these otherwise good but heretofore-misguided people are finally able to see how wrong things have gone. I hope so anyway...


COME ON, MAN. Instead of completely owning up here, you have to cast doubt on cold hard facts, throw your hands up in the air and say, "We'll never really know the truth if TC said those horrible racist things." It could be the "lamestream" media trying to smear him, huh?

Audio versions of all of those quotes I put in my first post (on page 1) are very easily locate-able on the Internet. GOOGLE EXISTS. Try it out sometime. Tucker really said all that racist shit I quoted in my message (and some of it is only WEEKS old) -- I heard every bit of it straight from his mouth when compiling those quotes. And he's still spewing forms of racist shit almost daily, as he rants about how BLM is "a totalitarian movement" that "you are not allowed to criticize" and "has nothing to do with Black lives" and is "coming for you."


Sure, Biden is far from a perfect candidate. But think about how Trump gets a total free pass on virtually any issues that came along before about 2012 since he has no prior political record to be judged against. He claims he was against W.'s Iraq invasion, and yet somehow there isn't one public record of him ever saying anything against the war from that time period -- despite the fact that he's always been a very public figure and one who has never been shy about criticizing presidents and the government for things they do he disagrees with.

Yes, I wish Biden had always been in favor of same-sex marriage. I wish everyone had. But the majority of the country wasn't there yet 14 years ago, and neither were most Democratic politicians (and needless to say, virtually no Republicans until much more recently). By the way, please find ANY instance where Biden called gay marriage "wrong and immoral" as you insist he did. Although he did vote against gay marriage in 1996, I'm pretty sure he never cast it as a moral decision. But please, prove me wrong if you can.)

As a whole, our nation evolved rapidly on this issue in the 21st century, and Biden evolved too. You praised yourself for keeping an open mind and evolving on some issues, yet you want to crucify Biden on this one. The thing is, he changed his mind to a better track and hopefully we all do the same thing when we change our minds. You can argue Biden just did it because it's what the majority now think, or that he always believed in gay marriage and was just too cowardly to come out for it until it was the majority opinion. Either of those could be true and would be a little sad, of course (but let's face it, par for the course in politics). But a very important point here is that he changed his position, AND HE CHANGED IT FOR THE BETTER.

If only we could say the same for Tucker Carlson on racism! TC did NOT evolve or change his position for the better, he just learned to cover his tracks a lot better than he used to. He made a bunch of really crude, openly racist remarks in 2006-2009, and when these were dug up last year, he REFUSED to apologize for them, saying that would be a sign of weakness and just what his opponents wanted. What's more, he continues to routinely soft-peddle racism on his Fox news spot, which is clearly WHY he is beloved by white supremacists. It's NOT just some random heart-click like you'd given a favorite pizza place on Yelp, as you very dishonestly try to portray the white supremcists' love for Tucker. They heartily approve of the way "immigrants" has become his code word for "non-whites" and the blank check this gives him to pile unfounded allegations and unending abuse on non-whites. If you'd watched the video that Leon posted instead of just prejudging its comments, you would've seen that Tucker's anti-immigrant agenda (as well as his ridiculous narrative that BLM is a "totalitarian" movement out to destroy America) is very much aligned with their own.

I mean, how much more evidence do you need? Tucker Carlson said he would vote for a presidential candidate who self-identified as a racist and a bigot. I'm not saying that means he ascribes to every white supremacist tenet, but there is a STRONG AND VERY REAL CONNECTION OF OVERLAPPING BELIEFS between Tucker Carlson and white supremacists and that is why he appeals to them much more than even a rightwing gasbag like Bill O'Riley (as the white supremacists themselves say in that video). And it's this very connection that makes a total mockery of your ridiculous he-who-likes-the-same-pizza-as-a-racist-must-also-be-a-racist metaphor. You offering that incredibly lame defense of Tucker Carlson's inherent racism is maybe the worst case of intellectual dishonesty in this whole thread.

Don't mistake me here, though. I'm not calling you a racist. But I am saying you're supporting people who are racists, having fooled yourself into believing that they aren't really racists (I think they may have well fooled themselves too, and are in total denial of their own racism. A lot of racists are.). In short, they are on the wrong side of history and they're taking you along for the ride.

Let's have a repeat of some of Tucker Carlson's "greatest racist hits." You can verify for yourself that he actually did say all this stuff verbatim as quoted below and refused to apologize for any of it in 2019, then think about if you still want to sit on the fence about this guy.

http://umd.net/forums/post-election-day-thoughts


Well, going by the pattern, you lean hard into the trolling and come across as a guy who is maybe a few steps above a minor Stephen King villain. You make assertions that no one who is paying attention could defend, and do not display any appreciable speck of substantial intellectual engagement, probity, or dedication to the facts. (Restricting your information diet to a single opinion program is a tip-off, here.) What's left is a hole in your self-presentation which you cover up using deflection and demands for civility. If people give up and just emote at you, it's not exactly because you've given them much to work with.

Regis and Leila Hazlett were fucking prescient.

Eerily so...

https://umd.net/forums/movie_review_robocop

So you are trolling us???

Regis and Lila were the conscious of UMD.

I'm sure that in his mind he's writing peak satire in the Something Awful style. Conservatives can always be counted on to do a shittier cover of 20 year old culture. e.g., they have just discovered that the war in Iraq was a terrible idea, apparently.

My friend Northern WAM (I love the guy, but I doubt we could live in the same household) brought up Fred Hampton.

All should read this article:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/history/ct-black-panther-raid-flashback-1207-20141206-story.html

One of the many, many low points of the Chicago Tribune. The author of the '69 story (Robert Weidrich) was the conduit for the Machine, the cops and the State's Attorney.

I think Weidrch was a gossip coulumitst at that point, meaning he carried water for the boys.

Funny; I took Chicago Transit Authority Buses to high school. The shooting was technically in my 'hood. That was not a fun morning (the bus stop was 6 blocks south.

About 10 years ago, when the area was gentrifiying, it was proposed to rename Monroe street "Honorary Fred Hampton Way" !

I wonder what happened last month!

You've on to something, Nein.

Anglosphere conservatism, beginning with Bill Buckley, became the gatekeepers for interpreting the past when they were proven wrong.

Trust me, lot of lot of people liked MLK or Jack or Bobby until the movement conservatives could rehabilitate them

You got me, the obvious parody and sarcasm was actually an obvious parody and not my true feelings.

Also, you didn't get me here with this thread/discussion - but this was also a "Social Experiment" project (Trolling is such an ugly word, please).

I thought to myself: "Let's make the most benign and passive political statement imaginable that leans every so gently to the right and then see how many deranged, intolerant and ridiculous idiots get hot about it"

As it turns out with this experiment, there are more than a few deranged, intolerant and Oh-So-Ridiculous idiots, more than I could ever have possibly imagined.

So, this Social Experiment was a great success, thank you to everyone who called me a vile piece of shit or said I was a Steven King villain simply because I lean a tiny amount to the right and thought Hillary was terrible. You guys are all hilarious, really I mean it, all this time I knew there were things like you all on Twitter, but I see it's just about any environment where you can safely type behind keyboards than embolden you to lash out like silly animals. Even the barely trodden off-topic section of obscure fetish communities.

I really don't think that voting for Trump is excusable anymore, after everything he has said and done.

Some people called you a piece of shit, so what, YOU yourself called all conservatives racist and thugs.
Now you're claiming it was a social experiment, what for?
For attention, because you're smart???

Great job on being a complete fucking Troll.

Nah, that ain't it. I have plenty of economic centre-right friends and I'm happy to go back and forth about the relative tradeoffs of various policy choices. It isn't hard, if the incentives are there for hashing it out. The problem is your earned reputation. The pattern is that you're just a guy who likes to operate in the four courners of tone trolling but doesn't show any evidence that he can do his homework. So it's more rewarding for us to dunk on your persona, which I estimate being maybe a notch or two above Harold Lauder.

If this helps get you in the spirit of things, think of it as a prisoner's dilemma. If you indulge in misinformation or absurdity, you're a reliable defector. The only rational choice, given that sort of opponent, is to defect in turn. If you want different results, change your strategy.

No, actually voting for Trump is perfectly normal and nothing anyone should shame anyone else over, sorry. Of course, anyone can vote for whomever they want, if someone supports Biden, I may disagree with that choice but more power to you. I won't call you names, suggest you're insane or scream about it. That's because I'm a grown adult and not a petulant crybaby child.

We're really talking here about 'everything Trump has said and done' that makes it inexcusable to vote for him.

-Joe Biden made a racist crime bill that destroyed countless black families
-Joe Biden bragged about it at the time and gave a unarguably racist take on urban blacks (at the time, which was awhile back)
-While it was awhile back, he has not apologized for it
-Joe Biden supports overthrowing the Venezuelan government. Have fun with more wars there
-Speaking of more wars, he's chomping at the bit to get at Syria and 'Regime change' there too
-Of course he was on the wrong side of Iraq
-Told black people they aren't black unless they vote for him
-and on and on and on...

NOPE ALL GOOD THOUGH, that kind of racism and war mongering is perfectly A-OK and if you support that, nobody will call you a vile piece of shit. You're only a vile piece of shit if you oppose that?

Trump makes dumb tweets. Joe Biden destroys black families. Joe Biden destroys brown countries (and wants to get at more). Sorry if I don't care too much about someone's twitter page. I don't really do social media, I think it's a cancer.

Stop talking to the piece of shit, everyone. It's just going to keep talking back. Only four more months until we get our country back. Focus on that.

Okay, let's hear from Richard Spencer, the chief organizer of the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in the summer of 2017.

In 2013, Spencer had this to say: "Our dream is a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans. It would be a new society based on very different ideals than, say, the Declaration of Independence."

Four years later, he organized the "Unite the Right" rally, where there were violent clashes between the rally's participants and people protesting the rally. The lowlight was 20-year-old white supremacist named James Field driving his car into a crowd of the protestors on the Charlottesville's Downtown Mall, killing Heather Heyer, and injuring 35 others, some of them critically. You'll also remember, I'm sure, how Trump said in the wake of this tragedy, that there were "many good people on both sides," one of his dozens of appeals he's made to his followers who are white supremacists.* He declined to condemn white supremacy for several painful days following the Charlottesville incident. As the tongue-lashings he was getting for this mounted and moutned from every corner, including both sides of the aisle in Congress, he eventually buckled and begrudgingly "did the right thing" and condemned white supremacists (in the most mechanical way possible, reading words clearly written by someone else far more eloquent than he, in a performance that conveyed he didn't actually believe a thing he was saying -- wink, wink, white nationalists, even I have to play the PC game once in a blue moon). At the time, about 7 months into Trump's presidency, it actully boggled people's brains that the President of the United States would have to be incredibly heavily peer-pressured into paying respect (however begrudgingly) to the ideal that "all men are created equal."

ANYWAY.... here's what the leader of the alt-right side of the Charlottesville clash had to say about Trump's influence on that event:

RICHARD SPENCER: There is no question that Charlottesville wouldn't have occurred without Trump. It really was because of his campaign and this new potential for a nationalist candidate who was resonating with the public in a very intense way. The alt-right found something in Trump. He changed the paradigm and made this kind of public presence of the alt-right possible.

And here's what Spencer said several days after the rally: "We're going to be back here, and we're going to humiliate all of these people who opposed us. We'll be back here 1,000 times if necessary. I always win. Because I have the will to win, I keep going until I win."

It's really great when you have a President who can inspire such passion, huh?

*In the much more recent past, we've gotten Trump's retweet of the video where one of his supporters yells "White Power!" and also his use of Nazi symbol that he claimed not to know the history of, but a leaked White House memo proved that to be the 17,462nd lie he's told while in office.

I'm not trying to defend Trump or present him as perfect by any means. My only point is this: We can play games, take things in whatever context we want, often biased, and look at either Joe Biden or Trump and at the end of the day neither man is perfect, both have flaws, both have strengths/positives.

As neither are either completely perfect or completely flawed, I find it disturbing that people who are anti-Trump completely ignore their candidate's MANY flaws and only focus on Trump's negatives, of which there are plenty.

Why is it someone can not support one flawed candidate that they like part of their platform and not another, again? Why not just let people support who they want and debate the merits of them with less anger?

Let's do this again, since nobody bothered to address any of it:

Biden is proud of a bill that has destroyed black families
Biden used racist terms to describe urban blacks
Biden told black people they're not black if they don't vote for him
Biden wants to back a revolution in Venezuela
Biden wants to overthrow Assad in Syria
Biden wants us in Afghanistan
Biden was a key champion for the war in Iraq

How many black families did he ruin? How many people died in Iraq? Yeah, sorry, some redneck asshole got propped up by CNN in their attempts to tie him to Trump. Richard Spencer? Who gives two shits what this jackoff thinks about anything? Sorry Trump stupidly, and almost assuredly as a mistake, retweeted someone saying something gross. Suddenly the guy who covfette'ed is now to be believed can not make twitter mistakes?

Someone earlier said, "think of the transgendered people! ask them about Trump!!'... and, okay? They probably aren't comfortable with Pence but Trump's been the most openly supportive of the GLBTG community *once-elected* President, ever. No President prior to Trump supported Gay Marriage before being elected. I checked around and his administration did recently roll back some minor legal protections for transgendered people, which I can imagine might sour them a little, but you people make it out like he's personally responsible for them being hunted in the streets.

Oh and diego, sorry, people are always going to talk to me. It's because, whether they agree with me or not (and oh boy do they don't here), I can articulate thoughts and am not a childish moron with double digit IQ. You could try being smarter and actually making an argument for your case every now and again, a good first step is pulling your head out of your ass before you post. Give it a swirl there, buddy boy.

Attached is what you look like. A cartoon drawing, so I'm sure that won't violate UMD rules, as much as I suspect diego would love to cry reporting me over at this point. Or earlier, probably the moment I broke his world by saying, "Trump is ok".

See, Diego? Unlike you, people feel drawn to respond to me, even though I'm sure he's going to not agree very much with me (we shall see)


There is a reason nobody in this thread other than me has acknowledged you. It's because you're embarrassing and you can not be defended. Fortunately, I won't pull a Richard Spencer'ing and try to say, "Look at this one guy! That means you ALL agree and are just like him!" because that's not how it works.

One idiot supporting Biden or against Trump, or whatever, those kinds of people only speak to themselves. Now, if someone in this thread congratulated you, complimented your wit and approved of your message -- that would be one thing. Trying to ignore you because you're stupid and just happen to be on the same side as them, that's another.

And, sorry, Piero, whatever your response is, it can not convince me to vote for this man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtspv72ApM0

Nope.

But you'll happily vote for THIS guy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9BXkQ-SRc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfOQBY5BrUA

Perhaps, but what I won't do is: Call anyone who votes against my candidate a vile piece of shit, I won't say they are a Stephen King villain, etc...

And, unlike anyone in this thread -- If I ever was part of a discussion where I saw someone rather violently and horribly attacking someone personally just because they were not going to vote the same way as me, I would call that behavior out.

I would say: Hey, wait a minute. I don't agree with him but what you are doing is wrong.

So, I've got that going for me. Which sadly is more than anyone taking part of this debate can say.

Yes, you're totally against name-calling. That much is crystal clear.



To be fair, you've got at least a 4-year history of trolling leftists on this forum, and at least the poster who called you a 'Steven King villain' was well aware of that, so the remarks were hardly just based on your recent revelation that you're really looking forward to voting for Trump. It's clear YOU don't think you've ever said anything that would be offensive to a truly rational mind in your entire life (Trump surely thinks the same thing about himself), but a lot of us would disagree with that, and also we would disagree with the ridiculous notion that the only thing we hold against you is the fact that you voted for Trump and will proudly do so again.

By 4 year history, you mean after the last election I made a joke, that the gist of it was mocking how ahead of the polls Hillary was and then lost. I also parody'd SJW stupidity at least once.

Hardly worth being labelled a Stephen King villain, but you do bring up a good point. I was only really concerned about the attacks because I mildly support Trump. If someone attacks me for social experiments, that they rudely label trolling, that's specific behavior on my part and fair game no matter how absurdly judgemental and silly the attacks were.

So, I'll retract that one. It doesn't count. I guess we're only left with "vile piece of shit" and whatever else was being said. Which, I don't know, seems pretty aggressive.

Anyway, nah, still disagree on Trump being a white supremacist. Biden's got more dirt on him for that by a long shot. Before Covid, black families were doing quite well.

Trump wants to uplift all Americans, Biden sees black people as useful.

Regardless, agree to disagree. I don't think either of us will win the other over to their thinking. My only real reason to be here is to point out how YOUR side of this is intolerant and unwilling to allow others to vote with their conscience, that you and YOUR side will attack anyone who disagrees and YOUR side calls people who don't support their very flawed candidate vile pieces of shit.

While I might have taken some flack for a joke about Hillary not being the lock everyone thought she was, I've also taken quiet a lot of flack for the sole position of just mildly supporting Trump, unless anyone honestly thinks diego was only reacting to some obscure stupid joke made 4 years back with his nasty comments, or some of the other borderline nasty things being bandied around before my post history was scoured in an attempt to #CancelCulture me.

All sad stuff, guys. Really.

I've always only said, Support Joe. Whatever. I think he's no good but you vote however you want. You guys can keep being intolerant anti-Democracy, it's a bad look though.

If you were half the man you claim to be and you actually practiced what you preached, if you actually lived out that Big Talk you spout above... if you were as completely honest about your own candidate as you claim to be you'd just come out and scream: YES, TRUMP IS SERIOUS RACIST, BUT I LIKE THE GUY ANYWAY BECAUSE HE HAS SOME OTHER NEAT IDEAS THAT HELP COVER UP THE BITTER TASTE OF HIS LATENT WHITE SUPREMACY.

And then that surely would persuade some of us anti-Trumpists here to say something similar about Joe Biden. Well, you never know til you try! Imagine it: it's your dream of total political honesty come to life. And you can make it happen, little yellow dog! All it takes is that great first leap of faith ...

But no, you can't do that. You have to squirrel away from Trump every time he says something that's so indefensible that even conservatives attack him for it.

Earlier in this thread:


Then, this morning:


It sure sounds like you're defending him at most points in this thread, buddy.

Like when you note COVID has wrecked the American economy and then go on to say this is "not at all his [Trump's] fault." But a lot of it IS his fault, because our economy wouldn't have been nearly as ravaged as it currently is if Trump had taken early action on COVID, as many experts and scientists advised him to back in January; instead he chose to stick his head in the sand and pretend the virus would "miraculously go away." And to this day, Trump refuses to wear a mask in public, saying he "won't give the press that satisfaction." So, instead of setting a good example of sensible, safe behavior for his legion of followers, he shows himself once again to be a massive fragile bubble of ego filled with the pettiest grudges imaginable. Gee, Donald really is just the leader we need for these Very Troubling Times.

Look at the stats on how the U.S. is doing compared to any other country hit hard by COVID and you'll see that Trump totally failed us a leader on this. We're 4% of the world's population and we've endured 25.5% of the deaths from it. And it's rapidly getting worse in many areas here, rather than on the wane as in most of the rest of the world where it first hit at the same time.

If we'd had a President who took this threat seriously a lot earlier -- and plenty of people in his own White House were telling him to do exactly this, some in mid-January... If we'd had a president that hadn't dismantled the National Security Council Directorate established by Obama specifically to deal with pandemics (and of course Trump then turned around and blamed 100% of our nations's unpreparedness on Obama and state governors) ... If we'd had a president who didn't trust his own intuition and ego over the advice of scientific experts ... If we'd had a president who acted like an actual leader instead of a self-obsessed, self-serving baby more concerned with what late night talk show hosts are saying about him than trying to actually solve this problem ... then surely the U.S. would have a LOT less than 6.66 times the death rate per capita as the rest of the world, and it's resurging here strongly too.

And Trump's response to the situation within the past week? He's cutting back COVID testing as a way to make the U.S. numbers look better and hopefully earn some votes in the process. Brilliant move there. The White House issued a statement that this was a joke on Trump's part, but when asked about that Trump said, "I never joke." If it weren't so tragic, it would be fucking hilarious.

Even a majority of Republicans think Trump did poorly in responding to COVID, according to polls. Oh yeah, and a majority Republicans also think he's done a poor job with the uprsisings in the wake of George Floyd's murder. But don't worry, they still support him and will vote for him. God knows how big a thing he'd have to botch in order to shake his ever-faithful base.

Jesus... seeing those two videos just reminded me of how darkly hilarious our debates will be. The end is so much more depressing than any movie could have ever made it out. No extraterrestrial event like a giant meteor, nothing supernatural like Revelation.

No...the end comes because the position of most powerful person in the world is decided by a contest of words between two geriatric invalids.

Enigmahood, throughout the thread you've expressed how much better Trump is for Black people than Biden. Yet overwhelmingly, Trump has been rejected by Blacks more than any other Republican in decades. Why?

A writer called Mark Fisher talked about this, that the horrifying dystopia has already actually occurred. Its just so fucking boring and mind-numbing that no-one has actually noticed or cares enough to challenge it.