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"Gender Recogition"
Love you, too
Last Year I posted on the subject of Gender Recognition.
Thanks to those who helped me understand better.
Months on, and age seems to have passed in Scottish politics.
The Gender Recognition Reform Bill was passed by the Scottish Parliament.
The UK Parliament then blocked it, using their power of veto for the first time in twenty-odd years.
The SNP first presented this as an attack on Scottish sovereignty, but this line seems to have become more muted as polls suggest that the vast majority of Scots doubt the Bill too.
My starting point is an earnest desire to seek equality.
I struggle with two points; at age 16 is a young person at a point to change their gender?
I was struggling to recognise my own identity and orientation at that age.
And secondly, this decision should be made without medical input?
I am acutely aware of the sensitivity of this discussion.
I despise the input from the gutter which has recently framed much of the discussion.
The First Minister of Scotland has resigned. May be no connection.
But can any honest people here help me?
Thanks, Peter
Thanks to those who helped me understand better.
Months on, and age seems to have passed in Scottish politics.
The Gender Recognition Reform Bill was passed by the Scottish Parliament.
The UK Parliament then blocked it, using their power of veto for the first time in twenty-odd years.
The SNP first presented this as an attack on Scottish sovereignty, but this line seems to have become more muted as polls suggest that the vast majority of Scots doubt the Bill too.
My starting point is an earnest desire to seek equality.
I struggle with two points; at age 16 is a young person at a point to change their gender?
I was struggling to recognise my own identity and orientation at that age.
And secondly, this decision should be made without medical input?
I am acutely aware of the sensitivity of this discussion.
I despise the input from the gutter which has recently framed much of the discussion.
The First Minister of Scotland has resigned. May be no connection.
But can any honest people here help me?
Thanks, Peter
Splash me
I don't recall seeing your earlier thread, so I don't mean for any of this to apply to you personally (although I'd be happy to be more specific to your situation if you want to reshare some details).
As far as I understand it, "changing gender" can look like a whole lot of different things, not all of which are even remotely medical. So, for example, if you decide to just go by a different pronoun and wear different clothing, there's not really much for a medical person to say. (I mean, unless you're going around wearing some really ludicrous high heels or something.) But if you're seeking medication or surgery or something, then yes: informed consent is a bedrock principle of medical ethics, and it would be absurd and dangerous to do gender-medicine stuff without it.
Moreover, I think the medical establishment should automatically include mental health professionals in this process, at least for the time being. Diagnosable mental illness is (understandably) quite high among people who seek gender-related medical care, and so you'd only be treating part of the person if you did body-related things without also looking at the psychological side.
That doesn't have to mean interrogating a person's gender-related beliefs or desires, although it can. Sex and gender are fraught subjects for just about everyone, and of course it's the job of a mental health professional to delve into fraught subjects and help people understand themselves better. If the person in question moves away from identifying as trans as a result of understanding themselves better, okay; if not, okay. But then also, in addition to any of that stuff, it's just a good idea to get people help for any preexisting conditions (depression, anxiety, ADHD, whatever) they may have, especially while they undergo (or ponder undergoing) a pretty major life transition.
As far as I understand it, "changing gender" can look like a whole lot of different things, not all of which are even remotely medical. So, for example, if you decide to just go by a different pronoun and wear different clothing, there's not really much for a medical person to say. (I mean, unless you're going around wearing some really ludicrous high heels or something.) But if you're seeking medication or surgery or something, then yes: informed consent is a bedrock principle of medical ethics, and it would be absurd and dangerous to do gender-medicine stuff without it.
Moreover, I think the medical establishment should automatically include mental health professionals in this process, at least for the time being. Diagnosable mental illness is (understandably) quite high among people who seek gender-related medical care, and so you'd only be treating part of the person if you did body-related things without also looking at the psychological side.
That doesn't have to mean interrogating a person's gender-related beliefs or desires, although it can. Sex and gender are fraught subjects for just about everyone, and of course it's the job of a mental health professional to delve into fraught subjects and help people understand themselves better. If the person in question moves away from identifying as trans as a result of understanding themselves better, okay; if not, okay. But then also, in addition to any of that stuff, it's just a good idea to get people help for any preexisting conditions (depression, anxiety, ADHD, whatever) they may have, especially while they undergo (or ponder undergoing) a pretty major life transition.
I hope that this gives you some hope that Spain was able to do this.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/16/spain-passes-law-allowing-anyone-over-16-to-change-registered-gender
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/16/spain-passes-law-allowing-anyone-over-16-to-change-registered-gender
"...at age 16 is a young person at a point to change their gender?"
No. Many of my Trans friends new way before 16. One of my tutors new at 5. They might have not been able to articulate it at that time, but that's an education/vocabulary issue, not a psychological one.
"...this decision should be made without medical input?"
Yes, because living as a gender other than assigned is not a medical issue. Hopefully they would have support from family, friends and community, but we know that's unlikely. There is therapy too (for which I am trained in), but medical doesn't come into it until they want to take hormones, blockers or surgery. If you force medical standards on it, you are medicalising it which is one step closer to saying it's an illness....just like they did with being gay.
Hope this helps.
additional, the Tory's are right-wing scum who should be ashamed.
No. Many of my Trans friends new way before 16. One of my tutors new at 5. They might have not been able to articulate it at that time, but that's an education/vocabulary issue, not a psychological one.
"...this decision should be made without medical input?"
Yes, because living as a gender other than assigned is not a medical issue. Hopefully they would have support from family, friends and community, but we know that's unlikely. There is therapy too (for which I am trained in), but medical doesn't come into it until they want to take hormones, blockers or surgery. If you force medical standards on it, you are medicalising it which is one step closer to saying it's an illness....just like they did with being gay.
Hope this helps.
additional, the Tory's are right-wing scum who should be ashamed.
One of the problems is the current attitude that if you are trans you should under go sex reassignment medical procedures. It's ridiculous. Most of the trans folk I've met knew well before puberty but they haven't all undergone gender reassignment in fact it's only those with body dysmorphia who have. Young trans people who's parents support them seem to be steered towards puberty blockers and surgery.
In short it's a very complicated area but in my option the area with the least complexity is names and pronouns. Personally I think young people should be able to choose pronouns and names used for them at any age indeed many non faith schools do so.
In short it's a very complicated area but in my option the area with the least complexity is names and pronouns. Personally I think young people should be able to choose pronouns and names used for them at any age indeed many non faith schools do so.
Silver_sea said:
additional, the Tory's are right-wing scum who should be ashamed.
additional, the Tory's are right-wing scum who should be ashamed.
Thanks, to all above.
Fascinating to read about the legislative changes in Spain.
Will we ever be able to see each other as equal people, beyond race, beyond even gender?
I'm still struggling a bit.
It's easier to decide on what we are against, sometimes, than what we are for.
Thanks, Silver sea.
It was Nai Bevan, in 1948, who described the Tories as lower than vermin.
Little has changed since. Except for the digits on the millions of £, their friends amass.
Peter
Splash me
You already have a fetish, so something already altered your mind, maybe abandonment, bullying as a child...etc...so you might want to seek counseling before going down another road. And taking advice from other people with fetishes is not your best bet. But whatever you do is your choice, nobody has the right to tell you different if your of age.
maxandstar said: You already have a fetish, so something already altered your mind, maybe abandonment, bullying as a child...etc...so you might want to seek counseling before going down another road. And taking advice from other people with fetishes is not your best bet.
I know that there's a theory about trauma creating fetishes, but I don't think that it's been proven. And even if that does happen for some people, it seems really unrealistic to think that it happens with everyone who's into weird stuff. There are just too many of us with too many individual differences.
If anything, I would argue that past trauma is more likely to interfere with a healthy fetish than to be the cause of an unhealthy one.
I don't think advice is the purpose of this thread. The OP found in their previous post that there were several folk here with real life experience of things they were seeking to understand.
On the other hand if someone with a wam fetish we're questioning their gender identity, particularly if they had been cross dressing to get messy, then I think asking for opinions here would be a very wise move. I know many people (not just WAMers) who have cross dressed in the kink world then needed to answer the question of weather they were really cross dressing or weather they were expressing a gender identity. It's a question that often comes up in the LGBT community especially with those born male sex organs. Are they gay or are they a heterosexual woman in the wrong body?
On the other hand if someone with a wam fetish we're questioning their gender identity, particularly if they had been cross dressing to get messy, then I think asking for opinions here would be a very wise move. I know many people (not just WAMers) who have cross dressed in the kink world then needed to answer the question of weather they were really cross dressing or weather they were expressing a gender identity. It's a question that often comes up in the LGBT community especially with those born male sex organs. Are they gay or are they a heterosexual woman in the wrong body?
WAM_in_Bed said: I don't think advice is the purpose of this thread. The OP found in their previous post that there were several folk here with real life experience of things they were seeking to understand.
On the other hand if someone with a wam fetish we're questioning their gender identity, particularly if they had been cross dressing to get messy, then I think asking for opinions here would be a very wise move.
On the other hand if someone with a wam fetish we're questioning their gender identity, particularly if they had been cross dressing to get messy, then I think asking for opinions here would be a very wise move.
In defence of the OP, I think that asking for advice in the context of this thread, is much the same as asking for opinions. We can take both into account when deciding how to answer a particular problem.
I had a grandchild who in his early twenties, announced that he was going to live with his boyfriend. I don't suppose for a minute. this was a decision made suddenly, but a matter that occupied his mind for a number of year prior to his announcement. He was no less loved as a result. Incidentally he had a lot of female friends, I don't think he ever considered himself anything other than male. You may have noticed that I refer to him in the past tense, this is becaue he sadly died of natural causes in his thirties. -he is sadly missed.
MrWetShirt said: But can any honest people here help me?
Thanks, Peter
Thanks, Peter
Your questions hit close to home because this is my everyday life and what I went through.
A lot of what Silver_sea and WAM_in_Bed said was true. In my own case I knew long before 16, and I'm not a fan of tying various medical procedures to the way one is recognized legally or socially. Not everyone wants or needs it, like in my case all I've done was facial laser hair removal because that was the only physical male trait beyond the obvious one (no hormones because female secondary sexual traits came naturally but maybe I'm odd from a genetic perspective). To each their own but I think of the reassignment surgeries as still being medically, pretty primitive and staying as-is in that regard is by far the lesser of the two evils.
Counseling is absolutely critical of course. This is a major, life-altering decision someone is facing after all.
Will we ever be able to see each other as equal people, beyond race, beyond even gender?
Not any time soon. The internet is the only place I've run into problems and I live in the part of the country that stereotypes say I should have it worst.
I'm woman enough for the TSA to not bat an eye when I go through scanners at airport security
I'm woman enough that no one cares when I'm out buying groceries every week
I'm woman enough that callers have always assumed that I'm a 'she' when answering the phone
I'm woman enough for the people of South and North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama to treat me like any other female, and to not treat me any differently than before if I mention my past
Whenever I'm upfront about myself online, I'm no longer woman enough. I get grouped with crossdressers and misgendered.
larryniven said:
I know that there's a theory about trauma creating fetishes, but I don't think that it's been proven. And even if that does happen for some people, it seems really unrealistic to think that it happens with everyone who's into weird stuff. There are just too many of us with too many individual differences.
If anything, I would argue that past trauma is more likely to interfere with a healthy fetish than to be the cause of an unhealthy one.
maxandstar said: You already have a fetish, so something already altered your mind, maybe abandonment, bullying as a child...etc...so you might want to seek counseling before going down another road. And taking advice from other people with fetishes is not your best bet.
I know that there's a theory about trauma creating fetishes, but I don't think that it's been proven. And even if that does happen for some people, it seems really unrealistic to think that it happens with everyone who's into weird stuff. There are just too many of us with too many individual differences.
If anything, I would argue that past trauma is more likely to interfere with a healthy fetish than to be the cause of an unhealthy one.
Ummm, here is a theory for you to think about. People who love green slime and the model looking up, where did that come from? If a kid is bullied in school comes home (usually becomes a safe space) watches YCDTOTV, hits puberty...for the older crowd could be three stooges, this could also happen from child abuse. Why does it seem to be a male dominated arena...well a young man who can't for whatever reason defend off the physical or verbal abuse feels some sort of humiliation....this is some of the tie ins.
3/8/23, 12:41pm: Poster confirmed that they are not posting references to specific scenes, or content bearing logos or titles, from the show "You Can't Do That On Television"
maxandstar said:
Ummm, here is a theory for you to think about. People who love green slime and the model looking up, where did that come from? If a kid is bullied in school comes home (usually becomes a safe space) watches YCDTOTV, hits puberty...for the older crowd could be three stooges, this could also happen from child abuse. Why does it seem to be a male dominated arena...well a young man who can't for whatever reason defend off the physical or verbal abuse feels some sort of humiliation....this is some of the tie ins.
Ummm, here is a theory for you to think about. People who love green slime and the model looking up, where did that come from? If a kid is bullied in school comes home (usually becomes a safe space) watches YCDTOTV, hits puberty...for the older crowd could be three stooges, this could also happen from child abuse. Why does it seem to be a male dominated arena...well a young man who can't for whatever reason defend off the physical or verbal abuse feels some sort of humiliation....this is some of the tie ins.
Yeah, I guess I'm not really sure how this fits with what you said before. If the idea is that home is a safe space and you see something on TV at home and then the thing on TV becomes your fetish (...but why that one thing and not any other thing??), then that wouldn't work for cases of "abandonment" and "child abuse," right? Because those are situations in which home is very much not a "safe space."
Also, this is sort of a guess on my part (because I've never been a girl) and I'd be happy to be corrected by some women on the site, but I'm fairly certain that girls also experience verbal and physical abuse in schools. So to me that part also seems, I dunno, blurry at best.
And, like, that's not to say that bullying doesn't matter in life or that childhood experiences don't matter. It sure would be a pretty big fucking coincidence if some kids' show does something new and then, 8-10 years later, adolescents who watched that show just randomly start to develop a related fetish. Surely there would have to be a causal link there. And for some people, traumas very well may link to sexual preferences later in life. But, again, I just think it's a huge leap to go from "some people's kinks developed like X" to "every kink develops like X." And I don't think the evidence backs that up that leap.
3/8/23, 3:20pm: Poster confirmed that they are not posting references to specific scenes, or content bearing logos or titles, from the show "You Can't Do That On Television"
larryniven said:
Yeah, I guess I'm not really sure how this fits with what you said before. If the idea is that home is a safe space and you see something on TV at home and then the thing on TV becomes your fetish (...but why that one thing and not any other thing??), then that wouldn't work for cases of "abandonment" and "child abuse," right? Because those are situations in which home is very much not a "safe space."
Also, this is sort of a guess on my part (because I've never been a girl) and I'd be happy to be corrected by some women on the site, but I'm fairly certain that girls also experience verbal and physical abuse in schools. So to me that part also seems, I dunno, blurry at best.
And, like, that's not to say that bullying doesn't matter in life or that childhood experiences don't matter. It sure would be a pretty big fucking coincidence if some kids' show does something new and then, 8-10 years later, adolescents who watched that show just randomly start to develop a related fetish. Surely there would have to be a causal link there. And for some people, traumas very well may link to sexual preferences later in life. But, again, I just think it's a huge leap to go from "some people's kinks developed like X" to "every kink develops like X." And I don't think the evidence backs that up that leap. [/quote
Well abnormal psychology might say different, if your abused or abandoned you still will find a happy/safe space even if it is watching a show to distract reality. Each individual should have an idea of what made them develop a fetish.
maxandstar said:
Ummm, here is a theory for you to think about. People who love green slime and the model looking up, where did that come from? If a kid is bullied in school comes home (usually becomes a safe space) watches YCDTOTV, hits puberty...for the older crowd could be three stooges, this could also happen from child abuse. Why does it seem to be a male dominated arena...well a young man who can't for whatever reason defend off the physical or verbal abuse feels some sort of humiliation....this is some of the tie ins.
Ummm, here is a theory for you to think about. People who love green slime and the model looking up, where did that come from? If a kid is bullied in school comes home (usually becomes a safe space) watches YCDTOTV, hits puberty...for the older crowd could be three stooges, this could also happen from child abuse. Why does it seem to be a male dominated arena...well a young man who can't for whatever reason defend off the physical or verbal abuse feels some sort of humiliation....this is some of the tie ins.
Yeah, I guess I'm not really sure how this fits with what you said before. If the idea is that home is a safe space and you see something on TV at home and then the thing on TV becomes your fetish (...but why that one thing and not any other thing??), then that wouldn't work for cases of "abandonment" and "child abuse," right? Because those are situations in which home is very much not a "safe space."
Also, this is sort of a guess on my part (because I've never been a girl) and I'd be happy to be corrected by some women on the site, but I'm fairly certain that girls also experience verbal and physical abuse in schools. So to me that part also seems, I dunno, blurry at best.
And, like, that's not to say that bullying doesn't matter in life or that childhood experiences don't matter. It sure would be a pretty big fucking coincidence if some kids' show does something new and then, 8-10 years later, adolescents who watched that show just randomly start to develop a related fetish. Surely there would have to be a causal link there. And for some people, traumas very well may link to sexual preferences later in life. But, again, I just think it's a huge leap to go from "some people's kinks developed like X" to "every kink develops like X." And I don't think the evidence backs that up that leap. [/quote
Well abnormal psychology might say different, if your abused or abandoned you still will find a happy/safe space even if it is watching a show to distract reality. Each individual should have an idea of what made them develop a fetish.
3/9/23, 9:29am: Poster confirmed that they are not posting references to specific scenes, or content bearing logos or titles, from the show "You Can't Do That On Television"
larryniven said:
Also, this is sort of a guess on my part (because I've never been a girl) and I'd be happy to be corrected by some women on the site, but I'm fairly certain that girls also experience verbal and physical abuse in schools. So to me that part also seems, I dunno, blurry at best.
Also, this is sort of a guess on my part (because I've never been a girl) and I'd be happy to be corrected by some women on the site, but I'm fairly certain that girls also experience verbal and physical abuse in schools. So to me that part also seems, I dunno, blurry at best.
I wasn't one until later in life, but yeah that's the case based on what I saw on a daily basis. I don't feel this is related to any sort of kink development later, however. Nor does being MtF, or anything I saw on TV or movies.
Talking general kink, I'm very much a switch and personally feel like some of the bottom side interest comes from having to be in charge in regular life all the time. Work, home, single parenting, you're the leader whether you want to be or not. This is almost like a form of stress relief. Someone else gets to be in control for a bit while I'm not. That's whether I'm getting absolutely covered in something and hit with pies, light / affectionate impact, whatever. It's relaxing with someone else doing something to me (regular stuff like massages included). I get to turn my mind off for a bit.
On the wam end there is a bit of a naughtiness factor personally, like hopping in the shower or sitting on a stool while a friend trashes you is NOT what you're supposed to be doing while wearing things you go to work in. If you want to talk origins for this interest as an MtF person that would be mine
maxandstar said: Each individual should have an idea of what made them develop a fetish.
Oh, absolutely. But I think you've hit on something important, which is that this really is an individual thing. If there are people out there whose sexual tastes are related to a past trauma, they definitely have a right to know that. But, by the same token, if there are people out there whose tastes aren't related to trauma, then it would be needlessly dishonest and cruel to tell them otherwise.
This is a great example of what I mean:
hope said: Talking general kink, I'm very much a switch and personally feel like some of the bottom side interest comes from having to be in charge in regular life all the time. Work, home, single parenting, you're the leader whether you want to be or not. This is almost like a form of stress relief. Someone else gets to be in control for a bit while I'm not. That's whether I'm getting absolutely covered in something and hit with pies, light / affectionate impact, whatever. It's relaxing with someone else doing something to me (regular stuff like massages included). I get to turn my mind off for a bit.
Like, to me there's nothing here that screams "past trauma." This seems like it comes from a totally healthy place, and I'm not at all sure how it would help to be like, "No no, you may *think* that you enjoy this because it's a fun way to relieve some stress, but secretly something horrible must have happened to you to fuck you up." Not only would that seem to be a really baseless thing to think, I can't imagine that it would make hope feel better or understand herself better or, like, heal or grow in any way at all.
And to bring it back to MrWetShirt's original post, I think a lot of this same stuff goes for gender identity. Like, yes, I could imagine someone being abused as a kid in a way that makes them think that their gender is wrong or bad (like, I dunno, if you're a girl and you've got an abusive dad who constantly tells you that he wanted a son and you should've been a boy, or something), but I think it would be really dishonest and even harmful to say that everyone who's trans (or is thinking about gender stuff) must have been traumatized. I don't think that idea would necessarily help people understand themselves. In fact, in a lot of cases I think it would do the opposite.
Before I say this, I myself am not trans, but I've spoken to a lot of trans people and this is what I believe from what they've told me.
Many trans people knew from a very young age that they were in the wrong body. Either feeling like their gender specific clothes didn't feel right with them, or they wanted their hair done in a way that was more oriented to the opposite gender. Things like that. So it wouldn't be unfair to say that 16 may be a late age for a trans person to begin transitioning.
The current status here in the UK is that, in order for a person to begin treatment to transition, they must first get a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from their doctor. They must also live for a year in their preferred gender identity. There are other psychological screening processes as well but, ultimately, once this has gone through, they can begin hormone treatment to start the transition process. As well as that, they can then apply for a gender recognition certificate so that they can have their gender identity changed on their legal documents.
What the Scottish Government's Gender Recognition act would do is simplify the process to make it easier and less dehumanising for a trans person to begin their transitioning process and having their documents changed.
Those who oppose this argue that predatory men will abuse this system to gain access to women's safe spaces to abuse women, which is a complete fallacy, because, for one, it will still take at least 3 months for someone to get their GR certificate. Secondly, if they actually did do that then they would still be breaking the law not only by abusing women but also by claiming a false identity.
There is another argument about 16 years olds being able to claim a GR certificate without their parent's permission. Some argue it's wrong because they think 16 year olds are too young to understand their own gender identity. I mentioned this earlier, but 16 is quite a late age to begin transitioning, not just because of trans people knowing at a young age, but because there's a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that transitioning should begin before puberty so that the body adjusts more easily to the hormone changes that take place during the transitioning process.
Anyway, that's as much as I know about the subject. I'm always willing to learn more. I hope I didn't veer too much off the topic.
Many trans people knew from a very young age that they were in the wrong body. Either feeling like their gender specific clothes didn't feel right with them, or they wanted their hair done in a way that was more oriented to the opposite gender. Things like that. So it wouldn't be unfair to say that 16 may be a late age for a trans person to begin transitioning.
The current status here in the UK is that, in order for a person to begin treatment to transition, they must first get a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from their doctor. They must also live for a year in their preferred gender identity. There are other psychological screening processes as well but, ultimately, once this has gone through, they can begin hormone treatment to start the transition process. As well as that, they can then apply for a gender recognition certificate so that they can have their gender identity changed on their legal documents.
What the Scottish Government's Gender Recognition act would do is simplify the process to make it easier and less dehumanising for a trans person to begin their transitioning process and having their documents changed.
Those who oppose this argue that predatory men will abuse this system to gain access to women's safe spaces to abuse women, which is a complete fallacy, because, for one, it will still take at least 3 months for someone to get their GR certificate. Secondly, if they actually did do that then they would still be breaking the law not only by abusing women but also by claiming a false identity.
There is another argument about 16 years olds being able to claim a GR certificate without their parent's permission. Some argue it's wrong because they think 16 year olds are too young to understand their own gender identity. I mentioned this earlier, but 16 is quite a late age to begin transitioning, not just because of trans people knowing at a young age, but because there's a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that transitioning should begin before puberty so that the body adjusts more easily to the hormone changes that take place during the transitioning process.
Anyway, that's as much as I know about the subject. I'm always willing to learn more. I hope I didn't veer too much off the topic.
larryniven said: And to bring it back to MrWetShirt's original post, I think a lot of this same stuff goes for gender identity. Like, yes, I could imagine someone being abused as a kid in a way that makes them think that their gender is wrong or bad (like, I dunno, if you're a girl and you've got an abusive dad who constantly tells you that he wanted a son and you should've been a boy, or something), but I think it would be really dishonest and even harmful to say that everyone who's trans (or is thinking about gender stuff) must have been traumatized. I don't think that idea would necessarily help people understand themselves. In fact, in a lot of cases I think it would do the opposite.
Uh, wow don't know how I missed that connotation but I agree. Zero abuse here and none that a friend has ever mentioned either. I'm not exactly plugged in to any kind of scene or whatever though; my life is pretty low key and discrete. Close friends know my past but that's it. This site is the only place that puts me in any kind of bucket other than female (see: threads I make being modded). My mistake for outing myself I suppose.
ScotsPie said: Before I say this, I myself am not trans, but I've spoken to a lot of trans people and this is what I believe from what they've told me.
Many trans people knew from a very young age that they were in the wrong body. Either feeling like their gender specific clothes didn't feel right with them, or they wanted their hair done in a way that was more oriented to the opposite gender. Things like that. So it wouldn't be unfair to say that 16 may be a late age for a trans person to begin transitioning.
The current status here in the UK is that, in order for a person to begin treatment to transition, they must first get a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from their doctor. They must also live for a year in their preferred gender identity. There are other psychological screening processes as well but, ultimately, once this has gone through, they can begin hormone treatment to start the transition process. As well as that, they can then apply for a gender recognition certificate so that they can have their gender identity changed on their legal documents.
What the Scottish Government's Gender Recognition act would do is simplify the process to make it easier and less dehumanising for a trans person to begin their transitioning process and having their documents changed.
Those who oppose this argue that predatory men will abuse this system to gain access to women's safe spaces to abuse women, which is a complete fallacy, because, for one, it will still take at least 3 months for someone to get their GR certificate. Secondly, if they actually did do that then they would still be breaking the law not only by abusing women but also by claiming a false identity.
There is another argument about 16 years olds being able to claim a GR certificate without their parent's permission. Some argue it's wrong because they think 16 year olds are too young to understand their own gender identity. I mentioned this earlier, but 16 is quite a late age to begin transitioning, not just because of trans people knowing at a young age, but because there's a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that transitioning should begin before puberty so that the body adjusts more easily to the hormone changes that take place during the transitioning process.
Anyway, that's as much as I know about the subject. I'm always willing to learn more. I hope I didn't veer too much off the topic.
Many trans people knew from a very young age that they were in the wrong body. Either feeling like their gender specific clothes didn't feel right with them, or they wanted their hair done in a way that was more oriented to the opposite gender. Things like that. So it wouldn't be unfair to say that 16 may be a late age for a trans person to begin transitioning.
The current status here in the UK is that, in order for a person to begin treatment to transition, they must first get a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria from their doctor. They must also live for a year in their preferred gender identity. There are other psychological screening processes as well but, ultimately, once this has gone through, they can begin hormone treatment to start the transition process. As well as that, they can then apply for a gender recognition certificate so that they can have their gender identity changed on their legal documents.
What the Scottish Government's Gender Recognition act would do is simplify the process to make it easier and less dehumanising for a trans person to begin their transitioning process and having their documents changed.
Those who oppose this argue that predatory men will abuse this system to gain access to women's safe spaces to abuse women, which is a complete fallacy, because, for one, it will still take at least 3 months for someone to get their GR certificate. Secondly, if they actually did do that then they would still be breaking the law not only by abusing women but also by claiming a false identity.
There is another argument about 16 years olds being able to claim a GR certificate without their parent's permission. Some argue it's wrong because they think 16 year olds are too young to understand their own gender identity. I mentioned this earlier, but 16 is quite a late age to begin transitioning, not just because of trans people knowing at a young age, but because there's a lot of scientific evidence to suggest that transitioning should begin before puberty so that the body adjusts more easily to the hormone changes that take place during the transitioning process.
Anyway, that's as much as I know about the subject. I'm always willing to learn more. I hope I didn't veer too much off the topic.
My opinion differs just a bit, maybe 16 is good from a social perspective but medical I'm more hesitant because what I've read suggests more study is needed on the long-term effects of starting HRT while going through puberty. But if someone understands that aspect fully, by all means go right ahead because it's their body after all. My perspective may not be so relevant because I never needed to do HRT. Nature did a good enough job of that on its own.
The living for a year part makes sense to me, in conjunction with talking to a responsible counselor. My friend and I were talking about it a couple of months ago and both of us found it beneficial because there's a whole lot of learning how to live that's a pretty big thing to take in on its own. I completely agree with your fallacy statement on the opposing argument about abuse btw.
It's a small sample size but both my friend and I just want to be treated like anyone else. Female, not Female* where you're in some trans category off to the side. That's telling someone that you're not good enough, you will never be accepted.
Thanks to all those who have posted these thoughtful replies.
I feel genuinely humble.
I want to act toward others as I would have them act toward me.
So that leads me to seek a fuller understanding of others.
Your comments do help.
I am going off to listen to Martin Luther King.
His comments could apply equally to those of all genders, in our age, as they applied to racial differences in his.
To me, it comes to attitude. Of acceptance.
Thanks, Peter
I feel genuinely humble.
I want to act toward others as I would have them act toward me.
So that leads me to seek a fuller understanding of others.
Your comments do help.
I am going off to listen to Martin Luther King.
His comments could apply equally to those of all genders, in our age, as they applied to racial differences in his.
To me, it comes to attitude. Of acceptance.
Thanks, Peter
Splash me
I've gone and listened again.to Martin Luther King.
Please forgive me for linking here.
Whether you are black, brown or white, trans or not, gay or straight, male or female, I feel that the greatest speech in human history has something to say to us all.
My apologies for speaking out on issues I do not properly understand.
Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4iY1TtS3s
Please forgive me for linking here.
Whether you are black, brown or white, trans or not, gay or straight, male or female, I feel that the greatest speech in human history has something to say to us all.
My apologies for speaking out on issues I do not properly understand.
Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4iY1TtS3s
Splash me
