I have a question for the WAM producers: Would you say that at least some of your models genuinely enjoy doing WAM scenes? Or do most of them consider it to be nothing more than a weird, but quick, way to make extra money?
I remember the post from a few months ago of a girl who started crying, in the middle of a shoot. I hope the average reaction isn't as bad as that!

This.

Whilst I cannot comment on WAM producers/models of today.15 to 20 years ago in a niche aspect of the fetish industry,people involved with the production of media etc for people who had fetishes related to industrial rubber and work wear etc etc....... it was the money, then you did get the odd person who got job satisfaction knowing that someone out there was sexually turned on by how they looked. Ironically a good model for a particular fetish wont have the fetish if you get what I mean. If we were doing a scene with a male and female getting kitted in full chemical protection suits the remit was, show intrigue and curiosity in the kit, then as you get dressed show more and more interest until at the end both of you are rolling about together and giving the impression you are both turned on. This was to give the illusion to whoever had the fetish and purchased the media, hang on I must be normal ......those two people getting dressed/kitted also found it arousing after getting geared up?!.......the main thing was not to show that you were going over the top in enjoying yourself and the other side was not to show you were bored....it was a fine line and the truth was, this was all an act. Scene finished and off you go after collecting your cash. I suppose this can apply to the wet and messy industry as well and I suppose it can be a bit of a let down when you realise the truth!! In terms of people having a laugh then yes but we can all have a laugh at work no matter what the job actually is.

i have to say that i've had a few models that were genuinely interested in the idea before they shot their videos, but most agree to do it strictly for the money...HOWEVER....i've never had one that hated it. all of them at least said they had a fun experience while a few even started participating with their partners in their personal lives. and every single one of them were open to doing more videos. of course, some had other life situations that got in the way of them ever shooting again. so, i'd say that they all enjoyed it to some extent.

Nope. At best i've had don't mind it. Its always alot of work for the girls, so i would not call it easy money either. Alot of models make more sitting on a car.

In my limited catalog, Olivia Wilder genuinely enjoyed it. She loved getting slimed, but said she had always secretly wanted to get slimed since she had seen it on TV.

Olivia had never done WAM before, but was even more excited for the second shoot. According to her twitter it was one of her most fun scenes she had done in the industry, for what it's worth.

Hi Dougiezerts,

I can't comment on this yet. Ask me again in a month. I currently have 6 models scheduled to do a WAM shoot with me producing it. I plan on having an interview type skit for scene 1, where after they have been pied in the face, I will ask that question. I decided to do this, because all of them have never been pied in the face. I can tell you that 3 of them are "very excited" to get there first pie in their face. I guess we will all have to wait and see if they are still excited after the first scene. I guess you will have to wait for my answer!! I can't wait to answer your question.....stay tuned!!!!

In our case pretty much all of the models are also my personal friends and mostly also friends, or at least acquaintences, with each other, and yes, all of them enjoy it. That doesn't mean they'd do it for free, they definitely also enjoy getting paid for it, but the reason they keep coming back and doing scene after scene is because they regard it as a fun way to spend time. And from my point of view at least if WAM isn't fun then someone's doing it wrong. My idea of the correct reaction of a girl having a litre of custard poured inside her dress is to giggle as it tickles on the way down, and then be determined to inflict exactly the same messy fate on her opponent's beautiful outfit, while either comedically ignoring, or having fun playing with, the drips that are falling out of her clothes and onto her feet.

Even with sexy kinky scenes, messy play tends to be comedic. In our hotel for Messtival, we shot several kinky scenes, including one with Rosemary and Susie in high waist bikinis on the big bed. It was planned as a sexy scene with lots of groping and fondling, and they are both genuinely bi and really like each other in real life. But much hilarity still ensued when Rosemary asking Susie to "turn round" suddenly turned into a messy rendituon of "Total Eclipse Of The Heart", "Turn around! Every now and then I get a little..."

I'd say mostly yes. Often not in quite the same way a wam fetishist would, but several have asked for specific experiences, and even more enjoy and understand the fun side of wam. Some also find it sensual. While I don't think they would seek it out to do alone, we often get complimented for giving them a good time and plenty of genuine laughs (and requests to come back!)

That scene sounds amazing

Right, the OP phrased it oddly. The idea of "all these women are WAMmers!" is a myth perpetrated by folks wanting to make money off gullible customers. I don't think there's ANY model I've shot who would do it for free... as it IS exhausting, and yes, the showering and cleanup (and redoing hair) is a big part of that.
On the flipside, these days "models" on IG can make $1000 for posting a selfie. So anyone I'm shooting now is doing it cuz she at least enjoys SOME of it, or at least doesn't mind getting messy in return for money.

The days of models needing to do this because they're desperate for money are mostly gone, FBOW. If you're attractive and know how to use Instagram, you can make WAY more than I (and anyone besides Leon or Messygirl) can pay you to get messy, so it's more of a "This seems fun, let's do it!" situation.

Also, just to show how little "enjoyment" really means, I had one model recently who absolutely LOVED it... to the point where she basically said she'd do it for free. That was SS182 Sidney. You'd assume she'd be a slam dunk for future shoots... and yet, shortly thereafter, she met a dude, and within weeks her social media was gone and she had zero interest in my (or anyone else's) shoots. I still don't think she was shitting me with that comment, but people's situations change quick.... And I'd rather choose a reliable steady model who only does shoots for $$ over a girl who "loves" it but isn't consistent.


Well, this is 100% the producer you would assume it is. The same one who has a reputation for doing the kind of things during shoots that SHOULD make a model cry. So yeah, "inappropriate" is putting it mildly....

well fuck, s.s., i need to pump up my instagram game.

i swear, if i had someone CRY during a session i would feel like ABSOLUTE SHIT. jesus christ, that sounds awful!! i feel bad for the chick but i mostly feel bad for whoever was doing the shooting bc i know how i would feel! omgosh. never had that happen. i have had dixie say "i will never do peanut buttter or nutella again unless i get "x" amount of dollars" i dont blame her because i do the SAME SHIT. i love playing in it but if you want me to slather that all in my hair and all over my body? my hair is LONG. i literally take DAYS to get it out because i dont have endless hot water and she has to do it as quick as she can to get home. so, she gets to ride home with chunks still in her hair, her body still oily...i do not blame her one bit BUUUUUT, she does enjoy doing it or she wouldnt come back like she does. she hits ME up when she wants to come back. she likes batter, she LOVES doing thick chocolate and recently MEHRON was an absolute favorite of hers.

i know ive had girls give weird ass reactions....that are just part of their personality...and im like "whaaaaaaa??" but i always tell them to give true reactions. Nikko has a fantastic time in it.....naomi loves doing it but she has said she doesnt like "white substances" i told her she was racist and left it at that. lol otherwise i have only shot one girl who was genuinely grossed out but i put her ass in the mud pit first day. hahaha! i warned her! she still went for it!

Some do but all of them who are currently on the MPV roster at least have fun with it. It's easy for a pretty lady to make good money without the travel, mud, bugs, sweat, gunk stuck in difficult places, etc. All of them are beautiful and popular so they don't have to do this. There's fun, some adventure, and kink which appeals to any lady that works for MPV. Just to pick an example -Summer Monroe loves doing what we do. Stormy and Sativa arrived early to one shoot and said they would do a scene for free if we let them go early together out to the mud tub. We've had ladies like Paris Kennedy and Star who don't work for anyone but their own site who continued with us because they enjoyed it. Are they full blown wammers like us? Of course not but they know how to have fun with fun stuff. We wouldn't want them there if they weren't at least having a good time.

Oh yes the models enjoy it a lot
We rarely do paid shoots, most are just for the fun

Sure, things can go a little wrong as well. Finger paint with horrible taste, clay inside the ear, hard-to-wash pigments, but the fun prevails

A vast majority of my models enjoy it. Only a small handful sexualize it. But I'd say 95% or better actually have fun doing it

They?!

It's as if women were an alien species who understand only cash or sexual gratification

As you can see from the various answers there are a variety of reasons why models and women buy into this. The deal breaker is rarely money and that's where the people skills and reputation of the producer come in. WAM modelling is mostly gruellingly hard work and so the attraction to the project and the activity comes from the fringe benefits like fun and creative satisfaction from threatrical performance/trying something different.

Some people just like working with particular people. It doesn't surprise me that Duncan can attract models who won't do this work with anyone else. It's obviously a reliable and well organised gig and an enjoyable working experience. The finished product is also highly polished and professional - giving them spectacular images for their portfolios.

I find it great fun & love being wet, oiled & messy but its also nice to get a little cash whilst having fun

I absolutely love doing wam/splosh modelling and sessions... the paid is a bonus obviously, but much as being a Dominatrix, I genuinely think that it's not something that should be done just for money. It takes so much away from the experience for everyone!

This is an interesting thread and I feel as if it raises broader questions about how women are treated in the WAM community more broadly. Women into WAM are these rare sort of unicorn-type beings who are highly sought-after, or simply don't seem to exist at all. However, the community really is not a particularly friendly place for women who attempt to participate in it either.

I've been on this site for a good while now, if not spectacularly active. I've certainly been on here longer than I've been making content myself. WAM is a genuine fetish of mine (though, to be clear, I don't believe this makes me better in any way than any of the other amazing models out there). Throughout my time here, I've lost count of the number of messages I've had with explicit fantasies, asking for graphic sexual details, people trying to meet up with me despite me saying I'm not interested, fake "photographers" looking for models (unpaid, of course), and frankly just general unpleasantness that very few women I know have any desire to receive.

I understand that the idea/fantasy of the women in the content you watch being genuine WAMmers is enticing, especially when there does appear to be a dearth of women who are interacting in the communities for it. But perhaps we need to look at the community as a whole and consider why women might be put off from participating. I can guarantee you that there are more women out there into this than you see in the forums and in the porn.

But how do you deter the vocal few (perhaps more than a few) who aren't willing to abide by the idea of common decency?

It's something we've been seeing for years, and I really don't think it's mutually exclusive to this fetish. It's indicative of a wider problem.

Love your pics, do you have any videos ?

I've been at munches and mentioned that I'm into WAM, and lots of other women are always interested in getting involved. But this community seems to have a problem with being male dominated, and that seems to put a lot of people who would genuinely enjoy it off from getting involved...

That IS the great question is it not? I do not believe I have ever even once in my life been propositioned in any of the ways Abigail or most other women could say they have. Nor have any much better looking male friends of mine that I can recall.

I would love to know if women ever have similar situations arise from other "women". I put that last instance in quotation marks to differential between known women and poser accounts. I'm going to take an educated guess and say that probably most of these suggestions come from the latter 'unverified' group if at all.

So then, this is an issue with men. Is it a social issue from generations of conditioning by the "patriarchy", or is it something baser, perhaps at the genetic level? Why do some men have an off button when it comes to these things while others do not?

I'm going to use and embellish this example left here by Daffy. I'm just going to use it for an object lesson.


--- NOTE: What the user said here I believe is totally fine and in the public forum. He's just posing a simple, direct, question, possibly about buying content even. ---

BUT, let's multiply this remark (which was originally a response) about 50x in a woman's inbox with half of them being first contact, more personal, bossy, hurtful, controlling, etc. Also the "fake photographer" and other scammers.

"hey, where do you live"

"hey" (by itself with nothing else in the message)

"we should totally hook up, let's smash, bump pelvises, (insert request for unsolicited sex here) etc.

"do you do customs, I have an idea, but I don't have money, can I pay you when it's done?" (Person is not listed anywhere as doing customs or even has a store in some cases)

"why haven't you messaged me back!?" (nevermind that I'm a complete stranger and we've never talked before and I don't know what your situation is)

Then there's the men who actively seek out celebrities who may have gotten hit with a pie at one point in their life and do the same thing.

Point is, I don't think there IS a way to dissuade them. You can't shame them, they don't feel shame, or empathy, or responsibility in many cases. Some of them are mentally or emotionally broken, some of them are just assholes.

I personally have less of an issue with people making sexual comments to me or wanting to speak explicitly about sexual interests. I'm on a fetish forum for a reason and I actually really enjoy discussions about sexuality, both on an intellectual and on a naughty level with the right people. I get a lot of messages, but having been here since forever, I'm not easily bothered at this point when people are pushy or moronic to me as I can easily ignore them. I share what I want and engage with who I want and I never feel beholden to anyone. But that's just my personal strategy and I certainly don't blame Abigail and other women who have been rightfully upset by men here who overstep boundaries and don't show respect.

My bigger issue, and I've said this before, has always been with the broader misogynistic attitudes that permeate the forum. Topics and the accompanying comments like this one which, as Richard Trouso pointed out, completely alienate and "other" females and which seem to exist solely for making and reinforcing blanket generalizations about women. Idiotically confident assertions by men here about "how women are" that are inaccurate, one-dimensional, and offensive. As if there are no women here listening or who can speak up for themselves. As if women don't have nuance, or complexity, or humanity, or the ability to enjoy and celebrate their sexuality.

Not to single you out, J, as I think you are generally a nice and thoughtful person who is coming from the right place and god knows there are far more terrible people than you here. But the Brie Larson comments you made a few weeks ago are absolutely in this vein as well. She is by most standards incredibly accomplished (she won an Oscar!) and very conventionally attractive, and as a human being she has done great advocacy work for women and victims of sexual abuse. Not that that should immediately make her jerk-off material, but that you diminished all of that into dismissive comments belittling her career and giving her a numerical attractiveness ranking based on your man-opinion about her physical appearance is basically what society does to women every day. And it's the sort of thing that really makes women feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, misunderstood, self-conscious, and never enough. Maybe you think she is fair game for criticism because she is a celebrity, but if you want to publicly exclaim here that she is a "6/10 tops", what does that say to the women who may be lurking or following along in the forums who certainly don't feel they are remotely as attractive as her? Why would they want to share their content or their faces or bodies, or feel welcome contributing their ideas and opinions, only to be criticized and judged and picked apart in ways that men are not? Again, not trying to tear you down, I just want you and others to consider that.

Here's a few things men can do to make this a better place: when you feel yourself wanting to make a comment about how women are, on what women's motivations are, or on behalf of women everywhere, DON'T DO IT. If women here or anywhere tell you you have made them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, believe them and listen to them.

I have said this before but I will say again that I appreciate when the men in the forums hold other men accountable for bad behavior. It sucks that men so often only listen and respond to other men, but... that's this world for you. I do think it objectively helps recalibrate the forum in the right direction and sets the tone for what's acceptable and not.

Look, I think we can all acknowledge that as a community we bungled the Brie Larson thing.

What if we take her up to a 7.5?

It's the money...honey. First and foremost.

That being said, every model we used had a really good time. Mainly because of my electro magnetic personality guiding them through the process of............

Nope...I was right the first time...it's the money.

Robby
WAMma Lamma Pie
www.wammalamapie.com

www.shepiestheguy.com

www.wammingfornothihngandyourchicksforfree.com

Alas, there are these things called 'intent' and 'perception'. And as they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". I think this is mostly the case because of how they are perceived by other parties.

So if my comments in the Brie thread where captioned out without any of the other discussion I suppose they could very easily by today's standard be seen as "misogynistic". Even out of context, I don't think any of them were "hateful" of her or women at large, but again, that's MY perception, and not that of another reader's.

Simply put, I was expressing my opinion based on what I have seen. I think we can also agree that each of us have seen people win Oscars or (insert award name here) that we disagreed with. As for her, like I even said in that forum, she was mostly a nobody to me. I hadn't really heard of her, let alone seen her in other performances. What I had though, I found to be underwhelming at best. Time, and seeing other pieces of work may change that opinion or reinforce it for me. But that's just my opinion.

"And it's the sort of thing that really makes women feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, misunderstood, self-conscious, and never enough." In a similar vein I could feel that way based on how my comments were perceived when they were intended to be light-hearted criticism from a self proclaimed nobody myself. No amount of explaining could make it enough for the other party or I could feel misunderstood, etc.
But instead I'll shake them off because as you indicated earlier, we've talked before and have a basic understanding of each other's intentions. Neither of us believe the other to be mean or evil people.

But if anything this made me realize that no matter what I say, or importantly what I mean when I say it, it can be interpreted in a manner not intended. And THIS makes ME part of the problem.

So, as you mentioned in your closing. Instead of making a comment about women, how they are (or rather how I perceive them), I'll just not. After all, silence is golden, and I would imagine preferable to setting someone off or giving them an incomplete or incorrect impression.

So, I won't take back what I said (as that's who I am and my opinion), but rather apologize if it upset anyone or made them feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, misunderstood, self-conscious, etc. That was never my intent, but again, intentions mean nothing if they're misunderstood.

I don't think I took your comments out of context. I fully read and followed along with that discussion at the time, even though I didn't comment on it, and I assume other women here did as well. My larger point is not to argue about whether or not Brie Larson is actually hot or good at acting. I only hoped you and others might consider how picking apart a woman's face and body (and somehow her career also got dragged in?) could be really discouraging to women here, and how they might then refrain from posting their faces and bodies and opinions, lest they be picked apart or criticized in the same way. More broadly, think about how these sort of casually cruel and dismissive comments toward women, even or perhaps especially when couched in "light-heartedness," are not conducive to creating an inviting and inclusive environment for women, and can be just as damaging as the more "obvious" examples of bad behavior.

Anyway, these are my lady thoughts. It's a bit frustrating because every time this topic comes up, everyone just concludes it's a big unsolvable mystery that can never be rectified and it's left at that. There are small steps that even the most well-intentioned members here can reflect on and take if they are willing.

All right let's say 7.8, but not a decimal over!

There are performers out there who have great fun with this and would do it for free if they could. I've been there when it happens. Just like the rest of us though they can't afford to do it for free. Everybody has bills to pay.

Put another way - How many of us would do our regular day job just for "fun" if we could afford to do so? For me my day job is mostly just a paycheck and not remotely entertaining. These ladies get payed to do what they and most of us consider to be a lot more fun even if it wasn't a great fetish interest. I'd take that situation any day.