This is a spin-off from another discussion, but I want to make this more general rather than focussing on any particular writer. Should stories on the UMD contain content warnings if they contain certain material?

Just to clarify a few points, based on the previous discussion and PMs that I received:
* I'm not trying to censor anything, and I'm not asking anyone to delete anything.
* I'm not a moderator, and I have no power to enforce any of my ideas.
* I understand that fictional characters aren't actually harmed by things that happen in stories.

There are precedents for this. The most obvious example is film ratings, eg "This movie is rated PG-13 for mild peril and infrequent swearing". It's also common over at fanfiction.net. Here's a story that I picked at random, based on the TV series "Lost":
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4807227/1/Did-They-Hurt-You-MAJOR-CONTENT-WARNINGS
I haven't read the story, but here's the intro:
"This fic is based on a vid of the same name from a very talened gal from LVI. Basically its what happened to Kate while she was being held by The Others. It has very mature themes. Rape, talk of rape/death, abuse"

Back in the old days, some websites said "Rated by RSACi", which later became ICRA. The idea was that the web developers would tag the site based on sex, nudity, violence, etc. End users could then adjust their browser settings to say "Block sites that contain these things". However, RSACi and ICRA are both gone now.

Are there any downsides to this idea?

* The author has to do a bit of extra work. However, this should be minor; it only takes about 10 seconds to type "cw: sexual assault".

* There's a potential conflict between content warnings and spoiler warnings. If I'm planning to watch a film, and someone says "It was really sad when he died at the end", I don't want to hear that! One solution would be to add content warnings as metadata (similar to the male/female tagging), then you could choose whether to view them or not. However, that would be more coding for Messmaster, whereas adding warnings to the main text can be done now by anyone.

This also relates to people's expectations. For instance, if I watch a "Saw" film, I assume that there will be people getting tortured. If I watch a Bond film, I assume that people will get shot. Then again, if you've never seen any previous films in the respective series, you might not know what to expect. I remember cinemas warning people that "28 Days Later" (zombie horror) wasn't a sequel to "28 Days" (a comedy/drama with Sandra Bullock).

So, what is it reasonable to assume about a story at the UMD? What goes without saying? I'd expect it to contain wet/messy elements. Since this is a fetish site, it's also likely (although not compulsory) that the story will contain sexual elements.

However, I think that anything on the following list should be flagged at the start of the story. (Other people might want to add/remove items from this list.)
* Rape
* Sexual assault
* Self-injury
* Injury to others
* Suicide
* Murder
* Bestiality
* Pedophilia
* Necrophilia

So, to summarise. Some people aren't into rape fantasies. If you post a content warning at the start of a story, they can look at it and say "Not for me", while other people can say "Sounds good" and continue reading. 24 hours ago, I wouldn't have thought that this was a controversial stance, but live and learn...

I can see your point, but I don't think content warnings are necessary. I suspect we're not going to get a consensus here, as it comes down to where an individual draws a line, but I'll summarise my position.

I understand the parallel you're drawing with film ratings, but feel that's not comparing like with like. Film ratings are to stop younger people seeing movies that aren't right for their age group, whereas I assume everyone here, on a sexual fetish forum, is over 18. Therefore, we all implicitly accept the "18 rating" and inevitability of adult content. We shouldn't need to be warned.

My other concern is with warnings themselves. As Bill Bryson wrote about American culture twenty years ago, they sound unobjectionable, but look closer and it's sobering just what film-makers and TV companies feel they have to warn people about. That's my problem.

Phobias develop when someone is anxious about something and then takes steps to avoid it. This reinforces their anxiety because their sub-conscious thinks this thing must be frightening, because here are they are avoiding it. Before you know it, the individual is reduced to a nervous wreck by spiders or dogs or thunderstorms etc. The thing that would break the cycle - facing the thing they fear and seeing it's not so bad - never happens because the person has trained themselves to avoid what makes them anxious and so has, counter-productively, trained themselves to be anxious!

That's the flaw with content warnings. Tell people a story might contain upsetting scenes enough times and they'll start believing it, to the point where they will get upset if they then come across the "triggering" content. It's no coincidence this is thought to be behind "snowflakes", as today's students were all kept obsessively safe by paranoid parents and teachers when they were children. Small wonder they now can't deal with anything outside their experience, as they've been trained to see just about everything as a potential threat to their well-being.

So here's my suggestion. No content warnings at all on UMD. None. So people will be exposed to damaging material, will they? Maybe not. Perhaps, after a reflexive "Yuck, that's not for me" they'll then log off, do something else...and forget about it. Do that, and the world is a healthier place, as people will realise they didn't need to be protected and the world didn't end when they read something unpleasant. Far better that than people becoming anxious at what on earth this story must contain if the author sees fit to warn them.

Warnings may be well-intentioned, but I think they just create a bigger problem, and especially when the content is flagged as being potentially "offensive" - jeez, if there's one thing we could all do with less of right now, it's people being "offended".

Or perhaps just irritated. I groan and roll my eyes every time Fox warns me that "The Walking Dead" contains scenes of horror and violence. It's not just the intelligence-insulting aspect, but also a practical one. I mean, the series is about the aftermath of the zombie apocalypse; if it doesn't contain scenes of horror and violence then they're doing it wrong...

I really don't see why people are making this a freedom of speach issue. It's just putting a content warning on pieces of work which contain things such as rape fantasies. Disregarding my personal feelings about such work; it can trigger those us who have been sexually abused and raped and if you're not gonna even warn people that's what your writing about then your just needlessly being a cunt. It would be decent if people could empathise with those who have been victims of abuse (myself being one of them).

[Edited by MM]

I dunno, a tagging system might be nice. It's a fetish site. I'm thinking of it being less about being offended, and more about it being turned off maybe? So for instance, we take things here as wet, messy, off topic, male, female, etc. This helps you see only what you're looking for. Male content turn you off, use a filter, and vice versa.

I guess the point I might be trying to make is this. You decide you want to read a story based on the title, it sounds steamy and just what you like. You get to the sex part and all of the sudden the woman is tortured, and raped by a drill bit...well, that got dark fast, not to mention your gennies and jonnys have since gone cold and limp.

Content warning: storys may have adult content. If offended, you're advised to stop reading whichever story it is.

I'll need some time to think about the new themes in this thread; but, to 123 (adam?), you wouldn't believe the poltroons who believe in flat Earth and Jesus rode Dino the Dino to the drag races in Pomona.

(One guy was the hero of the White Sox World Series run.)

Can I buy a new planet/ I hear some exoplanets are lovely this time of the year.

I might also suggest the use of "snowflake" and the dismissal of such issues as like saying the world is flat test my patience so sorry if I "contribute to the victim industry" by calling people who post rape fantasises that don't even have the decency to say that's what it is cunts. This is not a freedom of speech issue as much as people want it to be, nowt is being censored. It's litterlly just asking for a content warning, it takes 10 seconds to type in. But whatever, take of this what u will

This is a site dedicated to a sexual fetish. the vast majority of stories on here will involve something sexual in nature.


Due to the specific nature of this fetish a large amount of stories contain aspects of non-consenuality, whether it's pieing someone in the face who didn't want to be, groping someone when rubbing gunge on them, torturing someone or full on forced penetration (which in most of these fictional cases tend to be enjoyed)


It's not a Snowflake issue, but it is a case of a unreasonable change, to list every non-consenual sexual act for all the stories.

I added tags to our story system a couple of months ago. Any author may add up to 10 per story.

Rape and anything nonconsensual is not allowed in graphical content anywhere on UMD. It's reasonable to be more lenient with stories since there is no ambiguity about whether a physical model was in harm's way. Yet since this site is about enjoyment and entertainment, we should be sensitive about fantasizing about any violence in this context. It's not just about offending some people. Nothing exists in a bubble anymore. Everything contributes to the entire site and the community at large. Think about that.

What's more is that our billers routinely spider the site and they will contact me about offending material AND texts. I've even had to change user profile About Me's sometimes.

So let's not write about rape. I mean, story lines need to have antagonists and tension / release, but we can keep it light here. There won't be an enforcement of the tagging. But if anyone reads a story that goes too far, just flag it and I'll have a look.

Peace,
Messmaster

Well I guess my 30,000-word opus, "Maude Findlay Fingered Me," can go straight into the trash. Humph!