Businesswam: the creation of WAM material by producers who are not wammers themselves; who started producing WAM based on market research and perceived niche potential, not as part of their self-expression. A pure business endeavor, not a passion project.

I didn't think too hard on that. I'm sure I could've tightened it up, but I also think the premise is easy to comprehend.

First, I love making money and have no problem with people that monetize passions or hobbies. And I don't even hate on businesswam, I'm just not a fan. It feels soulless to me.

The forum used to be populated by wammers. People that loved getting messy and sharing their experiences with others on the forum. We're all a bunch of freaks; let's be freaks together!

"Tried a new pie recipe! Check it out!"

"Used a new kind of slime, here's how we mixed it up."

"Sale on _____ at Walmart!"

Nowadays we have "trade secrets", where producers don't share how they made something with non-producers for fear that their market position will get compromised.

Tons of "girl gets MASSIVE gunging" where a nonwammer model takes a bucket of yellow water.

Or "hot girl TRASHED by HUGE birthday cake", where a one-off model rubs frosting on the front of her shirt.

Even when the producers are wammers, most of it feels so rote these days.

Much respect to the hustle, but...

It's just a different place.

This is just me talking; I'm not saying anyone should care what I think. And I don't say this to mean that people would or should miss me if I left. I'm no big deal.

But I have been on here since around 1998, and I almost closed my account recently. That the current vibe on the forum is driving away people who've been here for 20 years...

Maybe it's the natural order of things, but it sucks. And it feels like it doesn't have to be that way.

This meandering mess is all to express my gratitude to The Man and The Wife, Kelsey Rose, and another longtime producer who went silent in recent years but plans to start producing again soon. You've brought back what's been missing for me. People that do this for the fun of it. People that are here for the interaction and the shared experience.

People who tell you how they got that perfect pie or slime consistency because they want to share their experience with other wammers. And because they know that sharing a recipe isn't going to compromise their market position because they're not friggin KFC.

(But it WILL cause that customer to vow never to buy from that producer again.)

So thanks to everyone who's making this a fun place again. I haven't been excited to log in for a very long time.

Here's to a grassroots wam revival.


~Dude



P.S. there are plenty of other grassroots wammers who contribute that I didn't name; I didn't have time for a comprehensive list. Mr. and Mrs. Bee, of course. Boychucker, she's awesome. Plenty of others. But even when they put out new stuff, they often get lost in the businesswam noise. More than once I found one of Mr. Bee's posts near the bottom of my first page because there were 17 other businesswam posts that day.

P.P.S. please save your "unless you produce content, anything other than positive feedback is whining." Simply untrue. I've dropped a lot of money here over the years; I'm allowed to speak my piece. Besides, I don't need to be a good singer to know when I hear one I don't like.

Onward!

And no I'm not knocking longtime producers. I still buy from a couple of them.

But the contrast between the recent influx of producers to the old world order is undeniable.

And I'm grateful for it.

That's all.

Hopefully nobody takes this as a slight, but I don' think there's a way to talk about this without coming off as somewhat disagreeable.

I feel this is good. I mean i think it's peobably better not to make material you personally like because you'll end up smoking your own supply so to speak.

I shall now use "businesswam" to describe models getting messy in smart office attire, thus confusing the issue and ruining everything. Thanks!

So your perceptions are not wrong....and what is weird a few old timers (people here way before me) in some of the producers forums or maybe it was the WAM reddit even predicted this as tube sites, cam stores, and cheaper camera equipment (phones) became widespread....I recall the conversation going some thing like this.

1. Pre 2010 - Most people producing were making stuff to continuing to support "their" fetish. Selling stuff primarily funded more of it. You needed decent equipment to get good video (smart phone's at the time sucked a recording video) so the barrier of entry was high.

2. 2011 + a few years - We would be invaded by a mix of really low quality material that would causes the price of clips to drop down to a point it was hard to make much of any thing. Eventually it would turn into the lowest common denominator formula (some one films themselves with phone, pieing themselves with paper plate shaving cream pies, or slime that is basically colored water, and horrible lighting).

3. + few years later (maybe we are here now) - people would get tired of the low quality stuff and concentrate on buying stuff that is good or investing in making content that isn't low quality. Those that produced stuff from the pre 2010 days would be the diehards just doing it for the fetish. New producers would come along (born out of the ashes of seeing all the crap stuff) and make good stuff because they are people with the fetish who got tired of all the crap.



It is scary how close this prediction came true.

I remember seeing this discussion it is crazy how close it was to reality.

Wow, someone who has been here longer than me!

I agree with the OP, there has been an influx of producers using words that don't hold up to the scene (Massive, mega, huge etc) but buyers are not going to part with cash if the scene is poor. These producers will either have to up their game or go broke hiring models with low returns. I have no problem with the producers as everyone has the right to try and they do bring stuff to the table, but we are a discerning lot

We have also had a good stream of new producers that have high quality shoots and great amateurs that shoot like the pros because of access to good tech and (probably) toutube vids telling folks how to do things like lighting (I know I will be doing that when/if I get round to doing my project).

It was different back in the day; people shared info, monthly "Oh my god I'm not alone" posts, lots of links to downloads for really bad quality TV clips (that I've got round to deleting recently), but I can honestly say I prefer 'now'. It feels less niche and more of a community; better quality producers and more variation. Yes there are some things that are not great but they can't be avoided but overall I am happy with the way UMD and the community has evolved over the 22+ years (and a bit of lurking) I have been on here.

And businessWam is a great word.

For me as a wammer firstly and an amateur sharer of my mess. I won't call myself a producer because I'm not. I preferred it before the influx of people coming here saying they have just got into wam and going to open a store to sell videos of them getting messy.

I came here back in 2005 to share my messy pics with other wammers and then more recently my messy videos.

It's like getting messy is now so normal because people who are not into the fetish are doing it, yes it is a sexual fetish for me. It has kind of made it less a fetish for me because of this and I find myself when pouring custard over my head was such a turn on because it was so naughty it doesn't seem that way now I imagine more and more weird and wonderful sinarios that these people are not capable of dreaming up because it's not a fetish for them.

I agree with the OP except for one thing-- businesswam has always been with us. Porn producers are always looking for a new market and, since I remember, there have always been outsiders (don't mean that in a wholly negative way) who seek to make a few extra dollars. I always envision the thought process like this: "Hey, these guys are pretty weird-- like messy sex. Sort of like 9 1/2 Weeks. Why don't we have a hot chick rub icing on her tits and moan. Boom. Get us some extra sales." WAM is a broad tent. Hot chick rubbing icing on her tits is WAM and is what a lot of folks dig, but the thing is that these outsiders don't get the other parts of WAM.
One last thing, what you may be noticing is a new round of people coming in. Not porn producers but independent Instagram, etc. type folks trying to break into this niche. Again, they don't exactly "get" the fetish. If anyone has been on Reddit's Wet and Messy sub you will see what I mean.
Again, businesswam has always been here. Just a new wave now. But just focus on the stuff that floats your boat. There will always be producers who "get" it.

There are physical wammers and psychological wamers along with physical/psychological wammers. Much easier to appeal to the the physical wammers but as a business wammer you make more money appealing to the psychological and physical/psychological wammers.

And there are a small circle of both producers AND wammers who get that conceptually.

Best read all day

There's so much good stuff in the OP. Thank you for positng this, dude. I mirror a lot of your thoughts, but wanted to chime in on a few of them.


Not going to lie, this really resonates with me a lot. I've run into this before, and it bothers me (probably more than it should). A producer doesn't sell videos primarily on the strength of their pie recipe, but on a ton of factors, including model, scenario (script and clothing levels), general vibe, camera works choices. The mess substance itself if part of that but is there data that implies that sharing "recipes" hurts sales.

I feel most people who would ask are asking to use for personal stuff. Even if they used it to open their own store, they won't have the rest of the package to be successful. And if they did, the recipe alone shouldn't hold them back.

However MOST producers are NOT like this and helpfully share their own recipes and advice.


I've been here just as long as you have, more or less, and I feel you. This topic comes up every couple years. And some people helpfully point out that we've always had professionals on the board, even people who aren't into it but produced good stuff for a while. And that's true.

What I feel like, however, is that discussion about WAM in general (outside of customs and videos) has significantly died down. I know some other old timer is going to step in and say "do we really want to have another shaving cream vs. real pies discussion" because they've seen it literally 100 times before, and I understand their viewpoint. However sometimes people share new thoughts, insights, or techniques, and improving WAM in my personal event is something I'm always seeking to do. I also just get some excitement just talking about WAM (maybe imagining my next "session", I can't explain it).

And mainstream WAM discussion (not that there's much to discuss) has really faded. I understand that's both a product of there not being much to discuss, and new rules making discussion of general mainstream WAM dicey at times.

I've also seen one or two threads killed that posted mainstream WAM that didn't involve minors, but that's possibly a separate thread. Possibly an overly-zealous moderator.



I haven't shared much with the community lately. Things have changed with how easy it is to track people down via social media. I know you had your own problems with this over a decade ago (those clips were awesome btw, I loved them). I would like to share the stuff I've done more recently but I can't trust anything online anymore. That that's kind of sad. However, I have shared before and people who pull the "you don't produce anything" don't have any better things to say.

What are psychological wammers? I have an idea what I think you mean, but I'd like to hear what you mean.

Does it mean people who are into the scenario or the meta-experience of watching/participating in WAM (either taboo or "fun") and not just the physical sensations of WAM?

Is being into things like coverage, overall mess levels, "stickiness" of the substance more physical or psychological when talking about watching WAM (as opposed to participating)?

Psychological wammers are wammers in which psychology plays a large part of the kink/fetish.

Unlike say someone who just enjoys seeing someone pouring gunge over their head while sitting in a plastic pool.

Or yes, someone who MUST participate in some way to "hit" that psychological kick that translate to a physical feeling. You can't GET to the physical feeling you want without first creating that psychological starting point.

It may be a visual. It may be a line of dialogue. It may be a movement. It may be a set up. It could be almost anything. But it LEADS to the physical result wanted. And if you are a producer you have to "dig" a little for those by talking to WAMMERS and understand what "triggers" them. WAM has a fair amount of psychological triggers in that regard.

It's fascinating to talk about a well known WAM scene that WAMMERS regard as a turn on and then ask....what specifically was t he turn on. For one it was the person involved, for another it was that there were two people involved, for another it was HOW the mess was delivered etc. One scene with multiple psychological triggers.

Good thread, lots of thoughtful points, given the scene was very niche at the end of the 90's when I found it there are certainly some parts I'm finding a bit 'meh' as you say (lame by the numbers businesswam; producers not innovating; many retiring; most subjects discussed).

Instead I peruse looking for diamonds in the rough, the odd thoughtful thread like this. Two things give me hope:

- The best content has always come from amatuer wammers, especially couples. They absolutely 'get it', the setups, the coverage, the anticipation, the turn on. And every so often another real wammer pops up with new material. eg Man and the Wife, MessyVibes.

- Covid is coming to an end hopefully, many people will have been unable to film, hook up, organise content, and I'm looking forward for more content later in the year.

As both a zoomer and bullshit economist I'm gonna attempt a hot take at this (on 5 cans of Scrumpy Jacks so bare with us)

The periods you're referring to broadly match up with the hegemony of two joint strands in both societal and workplace relations namely the postmodern condition (not to be confused with postmodern philosophy) and the economic dominance of neoliberalism (meaning the privatisation of public life i.e. the profitization of everything)

What this means for business wam. If anything can be somehow made profitable under the neoliberal model then even far out utterly niche fetish stuff rooted in pies and slime can become a matter of profit to those who have next to no feeling towards the fetish. I mean fuck it prisons can be made into private entities then why can't the most unheard of formations of fetish out there.

Not to say I don't understand the motive or fuck even appreciate the content put out but in today's times, the production of matter that is 'real' (in baudrillards sense of the term, something that has heart and soul and originality against something that is near meaningless aside from the power of appearance) is something that is likely to mean more to people as time goes on and the continuous pulping of shit in production keeps getting pumpled out.

That might sound a bit wanky but fuck it, might help you investigate into the growing meaning of pure profitisation that occurred after the end of the gold standard and the start of today's economist born in Pinochets Chile and the Reaganite/Thatcherite era of production. Mark Fisher and Baudrillard have some interesting takes on this productive method. You'll have to fuckin pay me to fully apply that to WAM content though.

I've made similar observations and feel the same way. For me, it's the pornification of WAM, and TBH that's not really my thing.

Having said that most of my spending still go to "old school" producers that are still around today: WamBabes (Ariel & Friends), MessyGirl, Slapstick Stuff (Rich), PiedAsianGirls, HotWAM, Leon/Lisa Moomins, etc. There are still very good material from old school producers that have gone out of business or closed shop... like PieFightGirls, MessyFun. Neil from PFG really did use a CRAP TON of pies, and most producers these days would have a hard time reaching parity.

I will admit that the newer producers (circa post 2010-2015 period), many of them are more businessWAM... and often have not enough mess. So I have little interest in those.

Along the way, there's also a couple of pro-amateurs that have emerged in the post-2015 period that create good content like TheManAndWife, Entropy, Baba/Keke, KatysPlayhouse and good producers in the post-2015 era like WalkingThePlank, PieZone.

As for content variety, back in the days we had more candid WAM (TV/movie, youtube), but that's now mostly not allowed. This is MM's place and I respect this decision and reasons behind it, even though I don't like it... The candidness of WAM was something that is very hard to recreate in a WAM shoot, and combined with the pornification of WAM, it has caused trends to move in a certain way.

It definitely happened here (if not other places too). If I weren't so tired and lazy, I'd try and dig it up. Biggest contributors to the conversations and analysis were (if I remember correctly), WAMTEC Mark, DM1, Trouso, Phil, and I think Mike Nomic, as many of them were sharing what the experiences of the 90s or earlier in some cases were, including the costs of then vs. now.

I miss the old guard too. Because that's WHY I came here. I wanted to meet these people, I wanted to have experiences with them. What started as meeting MM, Maria, Zoidberg, and a couple others in a Bar in Philly back in 2016 grew. Vegas was truly a dream for me, to put faces and voices with so many others I've only interacted with here! DM1, Mike, David, Kym, Clix, Row, Jefe, Katy and her hubby, the MGs and so many others; producers and fans, models, and fans alike.

THAT, what's what I love about here, and it's what I miss the most.