I believe the question should be what percent of one percent.

Jokes aside, my response rate has always been very low.

It's funny how we stigmatize and demonize individuals who earn a living in an industry fueled by such a basic human instinct like sex.

Ask anyone what they think of porn producers and actors - fetish or not - and if any of them think they're bad for participating in it, they're fooling themselves because I guaran=fuckin-tee that every human being to reach puberty on the planet has masturbated at least once. It's a basic human function for God's sake.

What sucks is that it feels like digging up past dirt is now the thing everyone does when they want to get an edge (that's why I'll never go near Twitter). It's sad that we expect everyone to be altar boys and choir girls from a young age. The internet is just such a tough place.

LOL Rich, that producer you are referring to above would be me!!! Yes, I get about 2 models cancel for out of 5 that I book, so that's a pretty high no show rate. I usually try and book at least 4 models per shoot, and at least 1 to 2 end up not showing. However, I also told you that I have a LONG list of willing models that have shot with me that will come back anytime I need them, because they enjoy it so much, and the money isn't bad either!!! So what I do now is text all the models two days before the shoot. I ask them to please respond ASAP to let me know if they are still coming. If they don't text me back within 24 hours, the night before the shoot, than I call one of my backup models to replace them. So, I actually get to shoot 4 models, I just have to plan on having some not respond to my text and keep my willing models happy so they keep coming back!!

Here's a spin-off question. How many producers pay models up front to book them? Rich has told me that he has done this, and than when they don't show up, he has to chase them down to get his money back. I WON'T pay models upfront. I've had a few ask me, and I tell them sorry, but I won't pay upfront because I get too many models that have been booked than decide not to show up. I've so far never lost a model because I haven't paid them up front. Just curious how many other producers have paid models up front just to book them??

Hey Limited,

This is a very interesting thread. I got to get into this one!! I am very new to this producing thing, but here is my experience so far. First of all, I live in Los Angeles. Here in Los Angeles there are a TON of women who from my experience are more than willing to get a little messy for the right price, money. When I first got started, I ran an add in Craigslist. I got 24 responses within the first week of running the add. Out of those 24, I cherry picked out the ones I didn't like, and was left with about a dozen.

I hired my first model out of that dozen. That model, whose name was Jessica, brought her friend along, that's how I got Diana. Diana was a referral from the first model I hired. After Diana's first scene, the next time she came back, she brought a friend. All three of these models are on my come back anytime list. So I ended up getting 3 models out of hiring only 1. Referrals are great, and I'm getting lots of them right now. The interesting thing about referrals is that my show/no show rate for referrals is 100 percent right now. Every single girl that I have gotten from another model, has shown up. They also tend to want to come back again as well.

I do get lots of cancellations, actually, they don't really cancel, they just stop texting me.....don't answer. It's about a 50/50 split of show/no show from my experience so far. However, it is not hard to find replacements. I have such a backlog of models, I can't shoot them fast enough, hence, this is the reason I haven't finished and posted any scenes yet. I've been shooting like a mad man trying to get all the models shot before they decide they don't want to do it anymore.

Another question that I have always asked producers, before I was one myself is, how many that actually do a messy scene come back? Well, from my experience, I have only had one model to date that did not want to come back. All the rest of them told me that they have had so much fun and want to come back. The one model that didn't want to come back told me the reason she didn't want to come back is because she didn't like the pies I used.....hence, the shaving cream. This is another topic in itself.

The evil shaving cream. I use shaving cream for a few reasons. Its easier to store in large quantities, I buy so much of it! Secondly, I love the way it sticks to the face, I do thin the shaving cream though because I don't like the way un-thinned shaving cream looks on the face. It looks to fake. Once you thin out shaving cream, it looks just like cool whip except it sticks to the face so much better. I haven't tried cool whip a whole lot, so I know I will get some debate about this topic. What I will say is that except for this one model, I have never had any other model object to shaving cream. In fact, Diana, my favorite model, tells me all the time how GOOD my pies smell. LOL! Maybe she likes shaving cream? I think she likes the chocolate syrup and/or pudding that I put in them. I'm sure there will be some responses to this shaving cream debate. All I can say is that I like using it, and all have had no problems with it except for one.

Never once in 16 years. I don't turn the cameras on until the model release is signed and I pay in cash at the end of the shoot. Never had anyone question it or ask to be paid up front.

It's all dependent on approach - regardless of cultural change. It's being intuitive, sensitive and adaptable. And straightforward! No tricks.

Mostwam Al alluded to this. Theirs is a team approach - Open and friendly but with a highly motivated interpersonal and corporate credibility. Bristol's a great place - but their recruitment success is not because Mostwam is near Bristol - it's because Bristol happens to be near Mostwam.

From my personal experience it's who, how - and when. Trust and honesty are essential. Presented with the an opportunity of an 'experience', a modest incentive and a level playing field most people will actually talk themselves into in.

I've had better luck turning the camera on at the BEGINNING of the shoot, but to each his own.

I just read through this entire thread and the timing is interesting. During a recent MPV shoot we had two well known long time fetish models and new face who was terrific. I got to be a fly on the wall during one brief discussion where one of the veteran ladies expressed her great distaste for doing pie stuff and the others agreed. Top of list was getting hit with pies which led to a couple of war stories about bad aim and such. I'm not a pie/food guy at all but it surprised me that having a pie rubbed in their face was more unpleasant than jumping naked and tied up into a peat bog in the middle of a bug filled swamp on a 90F day. Hadn't given it much thought before reading this thread. It's says something but I'm not sure what.

Regarding models and no-shows we've rarely had a problem at MPV. Dave works by referral most of the time and a lot of great ladies have brought others with them. Lena Ramon brought Paris Kennedy to us. Paris brought Star. Star brought Ashley Lane. Star has been a regular since 2011 and Summer Monroe since 2013. Just thought I'd add that this to the mix.

I noticed that, for many of you, it's hard to find a model who accepts to be pied.
But, at the same time, for some others, like the pirate from Walking the Plank, this seems to be extremely easy...
Which would be the secret???

Its interesting how throughout the years you guys at MPV have found that once model who in a way becomes the carrier of the torch, passing it along to the next model who becomes almost the leader of the pack in a way. Like that one model who brings the best to the table not just in terms of performance but in professionalism (at least as far as I've gathered from reading about them in some of your posts and watching their content) and sets a sort of example for the next group of models and whoever becomes the next "torch bearer" so to speak - i.e. Lena passed the torch to Paris who passed it to Star, who, by the way, is absolutely fantastic in everything she does like Paris and Lena before.

And I don't know where exactly Summer falls into that pattern, but I think it goes without saying that she's absolutely terrific for you guys! Lighting never strikes the same place twice unless your talking Star and Summer on the same team!

Just some thoughts and observations I wanted to share.

Thank you. You've got some good observations there.

Summer came with Natalia Chapman who....duh...I think was brought to us by Candle Boxxx. Candle also brought Whitney Morgan just for fun and Annabelle Genovisi. Annabelle was great and remains a friend today. Gen Padova first went to Lake Meade with us in 2003(?) and returned to Camp MPV in 2014 just for fun because she now lives nearby and is still perfect. She came with Janice who was brought by Stephanie Bagnoli? who I think was friends with Amy Lane. Amy Lane was the original proto-typical screamer who set the standard in 1998 for everything we expect from ladies since. The "main drag" at Camp MPV is named "Amy Lane" in her honor. Most all of our ladies were sent to us by other models or producers. Dave has been adamant about not opening the door to just anyone that a cattle call brings in. If you don't really want to do this because it looks fun and you're good at it then we really don't want you.

All of this is becoming more difficult though as the core group of ladies with skills and work ethic is becoming smaller. These are all beautiful and capable women who are perfectly able to bring home the bacon without leaving the house. They come because they are the kind of thrill seeking exhibitionists that we all want.

That's "Amy Lane" in the photo below

It's the right to be forgotten, I think, and the fact that stuff seems to stick around for much longer.

About 18 months ago, I was approached to go on Naked Attraction. I got to the audition stage and everything; but I turned it down. I thought long and hard about it, and realised that I'd have been happy to do it live, in front of an audience; or even on live TV. What caused me not to accept was the fact that it would be on 4OD for perpetuity and I didn't want to be known as "that trans girl who went on nekkid attraction" for the rest of my life.

Very few respondents get to scheduling, and then, the number of guys who make it to filming after that dropoff is probably around 66%. But as a percentage of total initial responses, that's probably 5%.

I get hit with a double whammy - while most other producers are in fairly large cities, the nearest major city to me is 1 hour away (DC), meaning that local guys are 1 - fairly conservative, so unlikely to participate in a gay video, and 2 - relatively low populated (the nearest city, Winchester, has a population of 26k).

I try my best to avoid no-shows, by emailing them a couple times the week before, with a deadline to respond. If I don't hear back from them, I cancel the filming. This keeps me from spending unnecessary time on set-up, but most importantly, it keeps me from buying perishable supplies.

While I don't produce pie vids for the public, I do commission a lot of pie vids for my own personal use.

Like Rich said, very difficult and more-so for guys like me who are only into girl/girl pies. I reach out to amateur fetish girls. Maybe If I reach out to 50, 10 bother responding and out of those 10, once I go over pricing and show them examples of what I want, I'm lucky to get one.

In this day and age, a promise that the vids will be kept private means nothing. Most understand that if they create a vid, the chances that it ends up online approach 100%. I can give them countless references and it makes little difference.

The money some of these girls want is obscene, especially since I only want a few pie hits and I already take everything into consideration with my offers; buying crusts, prep, shooting, clean-up. I feel it's more than fair.

Unlike producers, who don't actually pay the models until they arrive, girls want custom vid money upfront. That's a huge risk and yep, been burned a few times.

I've had replies involve "$500 for each of us." Yeah....and no. I do indeed find girls who agree and it's a labor of love.

THIS.

Right on my man.

No offense, but it's pretty easy to tell the difference between SC and real whipped cream in HD. In the low-res days, you could certainly get away with it.

SC will "pile up" on the face. Since it weighs nothing, you can make a giant mound of it to obscure the features completely if that's what you want. Again, I personally think it looks pretty unnatural especially in HD. But others have done well leaning into the unnatural elements... PieZone, for instance, sells SC pies on the basis of huge, super-fake clown pies that don't even pretend to be "real," and I think that works for his audience.
Whipped cream will produce amazing coverage if you do it right. But it also won't "build up" quite the same way. So you can still see some features underneath. To each his own I guess.

I stopped doing SC except in special cases... not really because of customer complaints (cuz the same folks who bitched about 1 SC pie in 15 now bitch about different arbitrary stuff instead).... but because models literally couldn't do more than a couple scenes in a row without complaining about their eyes burning. If you're lucky, you can find a model who's immune to SC, but with all the chemicals in the current versions, most models can't take it anymore. I definitely had a couple shoots end early due to SC before I made the switch.

What shocked me years and year back when I did some pie vids...live, with the models (ahhh, the adult section on Craigslist days) is how horrible real pies performed.

As a total amateur, I wasted a fair amount of money on real pies for one sesson...ones I thought would be great like chocolate cream. I knew to stay away from obvious bad choices, such as lemon meringue.

I even made sure they were room temperature since I guessed that chilled pies wouldn't stick.

It was terrible. Some coverage better than others but none really had the coverage I was looking for and the crust was all wrong.

Yeah, no point in using store-bought pies unless you could find the super cheap ones, like Pet Ritz back in the day, which were actually great for smushing. But most "real pies" are gonna be a waste.
You have to make your own, with crusts and whip cream and whatever else. (Some add pudding, or mix in frosting, or marshmallow fluff.....)

okay i still wanna get pied but WAT?? 500 DOLLARS A POST ON INSTA?? i do all my pole videos on insta....what the fuck??!!! how in the name of fuck are they able to do this?? all my pole friends have been shadowbanned bc we have to wear "pole gear" which is literally the same as a full bottom bathing suit and a very covering top so we can stick to the pole....and we get shadow banned!! how the fuck are these girls showing anything at all with all this going on?? im guessing insta gets a percentage??

bc jesus christ. ill put my mother fucking pole heels on and do the damn thing!!! im still gonna want to get pied bc its fucking fun but GOD DAMN.

I DID NOT KNOW THIS.

Once you're over 100K followers you can make decent money through IG. Once you go over a million, you're basically making more money than ACTUAL people doing ACTUAL work.

I don't want to get into specifics, but a lot of it is gaming the system.... Paying for followers, getting bigger accounts to promote you.... And also letting IG promote you. (AKA giving IG money.) It's actually quite shitty. IG limits your post reach if you don't play along, ensuring you'll never get the followers & likes to compete until you pay them first.

Most of the good working models I know don't care much about IG, so it's certainly not the be-all end-all. On the flipside, I've set up stuff with a few 100K+ models and they've all been some variation of flaky, unreliable, or just not especially good on camera. So at this point I just ignore those accounts. They're mainly interested in photogs who can "promote their brand" and "expand their reach" and paid fetish work is LITERALLY the opposite of that.

WELL DUH!! because they are great models!! i can see why us girls wanna shoot with them! they do it and do it well and finding girls that are professional but can still have fun is HARD. amy and penelope are amazing! of COURSE id wanna shoot with them but alas, i can barely get my own customs done right now lol before my fucking surgery so......dont worry. i cant afford them. hahhaa. but they are highly sought out for a reason. you have done wonderful productions with them and not only put them in their element but let them run with some of the stuff they have done and showed that they are sexy as hell! DUHHHH!!!

i will say this: OMG TRY LIVING IN KENTUCKY AND FINDING MODELS. JUST TRY IT. or dont bc you will fail miserably.

i kinda just gave up....let them come to me....i may start looking for some here in the next month to shoot while i am down but here is how it always goes:

1. they think they are doing picture shoots. even though i put in the ad that it is video.....and then they are immediately like "what?"
2. I explain to them what they can do, what they can choose from to do, the payment, and that i can be flexible with this, that and the other but the more stipulations they have, the less money they will make. They immediately are like "i dont want anything in my hair" "can you film this without showing my face (WHAT THE FUCK??) " "YEAH, IM DOWN!!----2 HOURS LATER----boyfriend messages me telling me not to message their girlfriend ever again....even though their girlfriend messaged me" "so, is there sex involved?" "no but there is messy fun, and if you are comfortable with that, you can make more money by taking customs and doing things a little out of the ordinary but hey, its money" NOPE.

this is not a joke but girls would rather take a dick than take a pie. for the same price. thats not a fucking joke.

I WANNA COME TO MPV!!! i hated i couldnt last year!!!

It's like YouTube, it pays based off of followers/subs. Here's how it works, and the people that make BANK.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2017/04/10/earning-power-heres-how-much-top-influencers-can-make-on-instagram-and-youtube/#380f598d24db

https://www.swaggermagazine.com/home/women/instagram-models/100-hottest-instagram-models-to-follow/

Yup. Sadly, that's what we're dealing with. Completely ridiculous, but I'm in total agreement with you, Jayce.

Whoops, my fault. When I said "$500 a post," I meant "$5000 a post."

With that kind of money floating around just for being pretty, it's a wonder any of us find any models for ANY price anymore.

it would not matter how much i did myself up....i do not think my old "mom" ass could pull off 5000 a post! what the actual fuck?? i think im gonna find that site where you can sell your used panties. bc i have so many i wanna get rid of...its unreal. we need a place here where we can sell our "wammed" clothes. i have a CLOSET FULL.....
anyway, yeah, its getting pretty wild out there, i suppose. dang.

I think you might need to move to LA and out of the red zone... we could team up and own the world from here.

WOW!
What a chat here....

OK, let me do my outcoming first: I'm a consumer and not a producer!
I' m in (private) WAM for now more than 30-25 years.
I also have bought within the last 25 years a lot of stuff. Beginning thie the phantastic 'splosh' magazin from UK over RobBlains first clips on big VHS-tapes until now almost only online shopping / streming....

From my point of view I would say yes there are differences between the intention to it.
It's a little bit of the old old discussion of the question :
What's the difference between 'sploshing' (UK) and 'WAM' (US)?

I would say it really the question of the intention in behind.

In Europe it's more the idea of slapstic and fun.
In US it's more the intention of business.

I can see this in case of customized requests (which I did in the past several times).
To the identic script I send to a producer I got an offer by 100-200$ (Europe) or by ridicoulus 1.500$ (!) (US) or a straight deny.

It's also the action. By this long time in this WAM/Splosh-world I think I can feel how much is real emotion and how much is just fake.
And to be honest...I hate the hysteric "OMG! OMG! OMG!.... OMG!" shrieking which I get unfortunally often from US-models. (Sorry to say that ther! ).
In Europe it seems to be more accepted (even in public places) doing messy action.

So from my point to sum it up as CUSTOMER generally prefer Europe-productions...

P.S. I DON'T want to harm / blame anybody here!!!
It's just an comment to this discussion, which I hope will be done open minded and will be an
improvement for better productions in the future for all.


Yours

Surgif (from Germany)

I wouldn't say American is more business focussed than European. America has a wider range of markets for models to work in, and large adult and porn one on the west coast. If you're in a red state and outside of the main city, you're probably not going to find a lot of models that want to do topless shoots. In LA, you'll get the full range from catwalk to any kind of porn you want to shoot. In New York, you'll get a decent range as well as the more artsy side of models shooting for photographers and a wealth of fashion models.

In Europe, there's a strong countrywide network of models happy to do glamour and adult and more inclined to enjoy doing something silly and sexy as a break from endlessly posing with their top off for wannabe glamour photographers.

There's no black or white difference though anywhere. It depends where you are and what networks are available to plug into relative to what you want to shoot. I've experienced both sides of the Atlantic and, doing what I do, had no real problems where I've been both times. But then, I'm in California so...