Agree with DM, Lisa etc. As usual, Jayce supplies a fascinating, thought-provoking post.

No, because it's a 2000 year old book made up of even older myths cobbled together from a time when telling people there's an omini-present being watching was good way to get them to behave.

However, it's now 2017 and we have a sophisticated society with educations systems based on rational thinking and science.

The question to ask is if it's a perversion that is either personally or sociological damaging. If not, then carry on. If not, take some personal responsibility and stop.

If you need a bible to give you an answer then you're not thinking for yourself and that's going to fuck up your head in the long term because you're not as rigid as one persons interpretation of one piece of text and will never conform to it, no matter how hard you try.

dear god i need you in this podunk town to explain this to every fucking parent i come in contact with and i am honest about my job....you would think i set dogs on fire. i swear to god.....

hey man, i believe in God....i still do wam. i dont have to answer to anyone about that...you dont have to, noise doesnt have to. its where we see ourselves and where we are spiritually or if we even WANT to be anywhere spiritually. that is the awesome thing about free will. i applaud both of you for speaking your minds, though. i think its a hard thing to do, especially on here where ppl can be total dick noses and instead of just reading something you say, and maybe adding an opinion, they can be totally rude about how you feel. bravo to you both for being cool and still being able to voice opinions

The thread is about producers soliciting models for sex.

Do you believe in God, yeah? Me too, that's great. This isn't the place to evangelize
Do you like science and critical thinking, me too! This is a fetish forum.

I believe we can both agree that this both a sin (from Bozo's perspective) and a not so classy thing to do (from Noise's perspective)

.... or, a vicarious turn-on (from Regis's perspective)!

Only got "lucky" as you say one time, back in 1981 when I did my earliest wam videos.....and 37 years later I am still married to the same girl. All the hundreds of wam shoots I have done since then my wife has mostly been on the set to keep her eye on me and assist the models with makeup and wardrobe.

She puts bromide in my tea and carries a big stick to make sure everything is kept under control.

My history of "exploits" is somewhat uncommon. Back in the olden days, I was a fairly fit & skinny musician/sound engineer with shoulder-length hair. This was very handy in the 80s when everyone in the rock game was wearing spandex and sporting big poofy hair. I honestly put almost ZERO effort into hooking up back then. Hot sweaty girls pretty much just threw themselves at us. All day and night. Every day and night. It seemed like the natural result of simply being male and having a pulse, and I enjoyed the hell out of it for a couple of decades. (this was back before sex could kill you)

Unfortunately, my stupid, young brain decided that this was the way things were and this was how it always would be, so I never really developed any "hitting on" skills like the rest of the guys in my generation. I've usually just waited for women to make the first move. Sadly, as I have aged and retired out of the music industry, those moves have become fewer and farther between.

As a self-employed computer programmer and operator of Vidown/TheMothership, the pool of women I regularly interact with is pretty much limited to models and producers these days. Due to lacking the guy-skills, I have never "hit on" any of them in terms like "hey, wanna have sex for free?" Since I run a bunch of websites like wamfinger.com , fingerme.com , toywithme.tv , wambang.com , and itouchmyself.tv that mostly revolve around penetrative sex acts, both solo and involving at least some of my body parts, I guess you could say that I "get it on" with a lot of my models, but all of it is professional, paid-for contract work with signed model releases. On a few occasions, that has led to some off-screen dalliances, but it has always been with the girls I have known for years, and it was typically their idea. What I've learned over the years is that if you can make a girl breath hard and tremble like a junkie needing a fix using just your fingers, they sometimes think you might be good at "other stuff" as well

The whole business of adult entertainment has changed dramatically in the last decade too. I don't think it has ever been common in the WAM production world, but in porn/fetish of years past, rampant sex with everyone on set was pretty much business as usual. I regularly have dinner with a former major porn star who is now producing fetish stuff, and we were discussing the whole thing last month. She seemed kind of confused about the whole current movement and stated flat out "that's just how it all worked back then. I probably blew and fucked more producers and cameramen than actual on-screen talent"

I think it's pretty inappropriate to ask as you're in the middle of a business transaction (assuming they are a model and not an escort).

That said, I don't see anything wrong with it at all if THEY bring it up.

Several of my models "suggested" or "hinted" at a possible sexual hook-up (probably to see my reaction)....but I never took the bait (professional ethics)...so, they never pressed it further....my most "famous" model actually try to convince me to make a porno with her (I was just getting used to the idea of making a short, clothed, wam video; I was not at all ready to go beyond this into the realm of out-right pornography,despite the legendary benefits that accrue to porno directors)...

So, I never had sex with any of the models that appear in my wam/slapstick videos.

That said, I have had 'relations" with a few models (I worked with on other projects), with one (that I still think about often) that was more of a super-crush (mutual) that never got fully consummated (she was just 18, I was 28), but who I helped become a (Ford) model...she went on to be a very recognized runway model for nearly every major designer on the planet...all of which she gave up to become a doctor (the modeling money paid for her med school education)...very proud of her.

To me it is completely inappropriate. However, off the job what two consenting adults do is up to them. You have to keep personal and professional separate. I love what Jayce said about boundaries. Getting those established is exactly what needs to happen. I am pretty sure there are some people in Hollywood that wished they had discussed boundaries before things went too far. There is a fine line in this line of business between work/pleasure. Be careful with it. I would hate for someone in the fetish community to have any assault or harassment accusations.

And the great question,
Q - when is it harassment?
A - When the other person thinks it is. They don't even have to say it.

Hi Lisa, I've been a fan/member for years. Have you always enjoyed WAM?. I'm sure some of your models may like WAM a bit more than you realise...Especially when you look at other producers comments. I can see how the fun side is an attraction but just because of the type of work it is you've got to want to do it! Keep up the good work!.

For people in the adult industry full time it's pretty normal to date within the industry. I know a few couples who are now married who meet from working together. It's hard trying to date "normal" people when you work in the adult industry because most people outside the industry IME get put off or jealous when they find out what I do for work. Even if you're someone who just does non-sexual fetish stuff a lot of people just don't want to bring a fetish model and/or producer home to meet their parents.

Yes it's creepy if you're hitting on someone who is in a relationship or has made zero indication that they are into you. There are ways to do it without being creepy and unprofessional. In the past I have had a few producers offer to take buy me dinner after a shoot and I wasn't into it so I just said no thanks. I still worked with them later because they were respectful and didn't do anything to make our work relationship weird.

Personally I briefly hooked up with a producer who I had know for years and it was not suggested by him and certainly not during a shoot. It ended a little awkwardly (because I'm awkward) but we are now friends. The one model I dated I only asked out after we had worked together a few times and then he told me he needed to take a break from being on film. I agonized other the ethics of weather or not it was ok for me to ask him out since I didn't want to feel like I was putting someone in a position where they had to say "yes" to me to keep getting paid by me, but then once he told me he couldn't work for me anyone I didn't see it as such a problem.

Aww, that's sweet, but you didn't specify the scale...

One to four

I can see how that would go down...

I guess it can work with normies if their parents are complete assholes and they have nothing to do with them.

How's this for not so classy then... Save your fucking lecture for someone who cares or just take it to a less open forum. Either way...

Right? I have no issue with people having their beliefs for the most part. It's just the ones that want to ram it down your throat or want to judge others based on their own fantasy of what society is and how it works.

When I say for the most part, I mean up until the point they try and dictate their "moral code" onto others.

Here's something to think about. Why didn't he stop the kids walking into schools and shooting other kids? Why didn't stop a kid dying from cancer? Why do you think you're the centre of the universe and God would care if he existed?

I thought the concept of free will was a pretty basic tenet of religion. I mean, Adam and Eve pretty much set that tone. Then Jesus dying for sins and all of that.


I wouldn't agree that there's an underlying blah blah blah because science and critical thinking. You're basing everything you say on something unprovable, therefore nothing you say about it has any basis in fact.

If you choose to do something mate, you choose. It's on you. Either make peace with it or stop because you believe its wrong.


I'm going to stop answering now because I've been down that road. I can't help you as a random person on a forum beyond a few exchanges that might make you think. Good luck figuring out and letting you be you.

Yeah, that's accurate. I was told once, "I couldn't marry someone that does what you do," which was essentially, "If you want to marry me then at some point you'll have to change profession."

That relationship didn't make it to that stage though for other reasons, so I have nothing more to report. I didn't have issues, but I wouldn't go as far to say others wouldn't. I tended to date then marry more liberal thinking people.


Have you considered acquiring an English accent?


Uh, what does bromide taste like? Asking for a me.

Thank you.

Glad you like our work

I think people want to read more into it. Our girls are just happy they've found some casual work, that's fairly fun and social, that pays very well.
The girls enjoy being infront of the camera more than the mess I'd say.

I'm not a wam fan per say.. I find it fun. It's a huge part of my life now. It can be sexy, but that's more to do with who I'm slipping and sliding around with
Or who's watching my performance
So rolling around in a bath of custard, not likely to turn me on. Rolling around in a bath of custard imagining being with or actually being with my man is.

Sorry if I'm being blunt. It's just always been really important to us to be very truthful on this matter, so wam fans looking for relationships look for a genuine connection, not just a wam connection.

LisaMoomin

That is quite the truth. Whenever I see someone asking how to meet a girl into WAM it seems very narrowing and unrealistic. Figuring out how to bring it up in a relationship is a far more useful discussion to have.

The reality is, and I'm not preaching to you here Lisa, you're smarter than I am and may be able to expand on it from a female point of view...

... Relationships are give and take. That's the bottom line. And the longer the relationship, the more important that becomes. When it comes to sex, compatibility usually only goes so far. But, naturally both partners want to please each other and, this is the important bit, get turned on by pleasing their partner.

Quilifier: This applies to gay relationships as well as well as women, but I'm going to be hetero-male-normative because that's my main experience and aim at the guys because that's the main audience.



Guys, that doesn't mean your partner is going to end up orgasming at every pie in her face, but, it means there's a chance she's not going to outright refuse. Of course, people are people and it might be a turn off depending on life experience and perspectives or just hating the idea of messing up hair.

The point is, as long as its presented about being about the other person, making sure they know they're the turn on, not the pie or whatever, then chances are they will either put up with it, find it interesting because you do, find it a bit of a turn on because it turns you on, or just go for it because they figure out a way in which it works for them.

Presentation is everything.

At the far end, I know a girl who's man is into it and she admitted that she knows that the smell of baked crust and Kool Whip means things are going to get sexy, and reacts to it positively, almost by conditioning. Conditioning is the wrong word, but I'm having trouble finding a better one. To the point she found herself making pies for her man to throw at her without him suggesting it and not as a particular special treat - she was just in the mood.


Now, that's not going to be normal. But it's indicative of how things can play out if presented right and respect being shown. If she's not into it and will do once in a blue moon, be patient and respect the fact she's willing to do something crazy and, to her mind, quite humiliating for you.


To bring this back on topic... I doubt any producer based relationship, whether one-night stand or whatever, was based on the fetish. As Lisa said, that's not why models show up, even though it can be a fun and/or gratifying experience in some kind of non-sexual manner.

That was smooth transition back on-topic, right, right?

PotatoMan: this thread is NOT AT ALL about producers "soliciting" models for sex --- do you understand what that means? It means the producers are prostitutes. Golly jeeze...I m beginning to regret opening this thread...

solicit
slisit/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: soliciting
1. ask for or try to obtain (something) from someone.
"he called a meeting to solicit their views"
synonyms: ask for, request, seek, apply for, put in for, call for, press for, beg, plead for More
2. ask (someone) for something.
"historians and critics are solicited for opinions by the auction houses"
3. accost someone and offer one's or someone else's services as a prostitute.
"although prostitution was not itself an offense, soliciting was"

I mean, I guess if you jump directly to the third definition.

But I mean I could also for example say something like
"Jayce, can I take you out for dinner sometime? I know a great place called Hardee's down the street."

Absolutely ZERO sex is implied.

I understand the definitions, thanks, but, in many states "solicitation of sex" is synonymous with soliciting sex-for-money by a prostitute, and is a crime.

Further, the title of the thread includes the phrase "getting it on" which as you know means "having sex with"...so, when I read "solicitation", my mind immediately connected the two concepts....sorry if I over-reached.!

It's a slippery slope...I mean you already payed them for the modelling, I don't know what the legality is if you then want to have sex on the side. Where does the modelling contract end and the you asking to bump pelvises start? It's a legit question.

Wait...wasn't this the plot for Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo?

Modeling is one job. Prostitute is another. How is that not a difficult concept? How close to you think modeling or acting is to prostitution?

Does that make us producers pimps in your eyes?

Let me make it simple. It's like hiring an electrician and then asking him to clean your toilet afterwards. He'll most likely tell you to go fuck yourself. Except with a model, she could call the police and you find yourself in jail, charged with soliciting for paid sex, and a criminal record.

Rarely do the two meet, and if they do it seems to be out of the sphere that that vast majority of producers here work with.

That's exactly my point, if you're a producer, and you ask for sex, aren't you treating them like a prostitute?

Likewise, if you're a producer, you start to like a model, and ask them out (not for sex), OUTSIDE OF WORK, then it's NOT.

The moral of the story is don't ask a model you are employing to polish your knob.
That's the moral and legal high ground, plain and simple.

Most of the models we've hired were too professional to even consider it. We try to be as well. There are limits to human endurance however and occasionally models will test it. Probably helps that our entire gang behind the camera has been middle aged guys that are married with children. For what we do we're really a pretty square bunch at MPV.

Dave once received a copy of an email from another model to Lena Ramon asking about us. In the response we were described as "harmless". This was somewhat disappointing as we wanted to be at least slightly dangerous. At least it makes it easy to get whatever talent we want. We're "harmless".

The photo is me and Stephani James at Studio 588 in 2008. That's about as close as it gets.