What do you like to see in a WAM movie?

The blonde, well endowed fetish model (generalisation for hyperbole only) delivering the lines in a well rehearsed way, looking every inch the attractive model giving it her best acting performance?

Or the more average, everyday girls who have fond their way into a WAM movie and just play it as it is, a normal non professional model getting messy for first time?

Great question, for me personally I can go either way its more based on the scene its self but I do, find myself enjoying the amateurs a little more because it might actually be into it more and not just in it for a check.

There's plenty of room for both and in this business the definition of "professional" isn't precise. Mostly in the earlier years of MPV we sometimes used talented amateurs like Kristine or Krystal in a "professional" environment. The thing to avoid are amateurs with no talent or ability in the genre.

Well seeing as EVERYONE was once an amature and ALL experts of EVERYTHING HAD to have started somewhere... as amatures its always nice to ses new, hot, sexy and adventurous amateurs take their turn alongside longtime vets in the business.

Think it all depends on the scene type an whats to be goin on. Skill an experience come with anything done really so bein new or BRAND new i would think isnt all that important

Write-in vote for 12" plastic dolls.

Some great points raised here, and indeed an interesting new direction for the thread, so I'd like to add a second question to the discussion:

What elements of producion would in fact ruin a scene for you? How does this inexperience manifest?

Depends. If it's more just a girl "doing her thang" and trying to be sexy, I prefer a bit more experienced model because she's usually a bit more convincing with poses and facial expressions. Also, if there's a set script with lots of line,me, someone who has acted before will usually be better and more natural.

But I candid type scenes, where someone gets unexpectedly messed without planning it (even if it's scripted) or knowing she'd get messy beforehand. She's wearing her regular clothes and needs to figure out how she'll deal with being messy all day... In this case, I prefer amateurs because they react more naturally and probably have more fun with it. Takes a different person to say "Oh, slime me? ok!" Whereas a model who's done it before will be like "Sure, I've done that. It's cool," but I expect she'd pass because she'd see it as doing a job for free.

But the #1favorite: watching someone who never WAMmed in her life or never made a video do it for the first time. I don't have the courage to appear in a video but maybe one day I will. So I really idolize those girls and see myself in their place (well, maybe one day).

I prefer professionals. There are 2 problems with amateurs that I regularly notice, ESPECIALLY first timers.

1. Oftentimes, when they pie someone, it is fairly tepid because they are afraid of hurting them. This is especially true if the two don't know one another very well.

2. They break character too easily. An absolute boner killer for me is when a girl smiles. Many first timer amateurs find being pied is funny and they laugh after being pied. If the scene is about humiliation (which all of the scenes I like are), that is just wrong.


The pros that I hire (Hannah, Cali, Jordana, etc.) have been pied countless times, don't laugh, and know how to act. And it is in their financial interest to get the scene right. For the amateur, this might be a one-off and they don't care enough.

I can go either way.

Brother you nailed it. A lot of willing ladies can do a lovely job of showing off for the camera if the person running the show has some personality. I've known a couple of mud producers, one in particular, that were so lacking in chemistry with the performers that you wondered if they were even human. Amateur or professional the people in front of the camera are often a reflection of what's going on behind it.

Wait, you ... you mean I can't be a successful wam producer if I'm a maladjusted creep?!

Can't say for absolute certain. Has anyone ever tried death-row convicts for models?

Thanks for the kind words! I take that as a HUGE compliment. And yes, my goal is always to make sure the model is comfortable and having fun.... I'd rather have her "pretend" to be pissed off but break character sometimes (Taylor does this a LOT) than have a model who you can tell is genuinely annoyed/uncomfortable and not acting.

I think the Moomins might be better at this than I.... But in fairness, as a female model who's been messy before, Lisa can probably put these first-time girls at ease in a way I can't. All I can do is think, "What would Regis do?" And then do the polar opposite. Seems to work out OK!

In general, amateurs. But I still love Rich's stuff. I really love justpieme.com, Especially how lately where they are filming approaching these random girls on the street. The type of girl who would just agree on the spot to get pied for 100 bucks... that's just awesome to me. And for some reason, hot.

That's hard to say, as what is an amateur and what is a professional. I know producers and models that are professional (as it's what they do for a living) but consider themselves amateurs because they don't have devoted studios or work with tons of other people.

I really like the appeal of someone who is natural. Particularly someone who is new. Maybe they have that look of shock and disgust at first, but as you see them make more, they fall in love with it, and start to actually LIKE doing WAM. I also prefer seeing them as a person and not a character, probably because WAM is such a personal thing for me. I guess it doesn't help that I've shamelessly and stupidly completely fallen in love with one.

Now that's not to say I don't like professional scenes and models too though.

I'd say the perfect model is the best of both worlds- an amateur who is comfortable in front of the camera and up to the task of the shoot, but still has butterflies about the impending mess. I was thinking recently about Sheila's shoot, how even though she was an amateur, some aspects of her personality (bubbly and talkative but opinionated and a little full of herself) naturally played into the types of characters we like to see get the mess. No surprise people went crazy for that release! But really, in this world, sometimes the only difference between the amateurs and pros is the ability to show up for the shoot on time...thinking about you, Megan & Angie

I love that too! For me, it's just comforting to know theres other girls who could be into it, or at least, don't find the whole idea revolting.

But the spontaneity is what makes it the most appealing for me. A lot of my wam experiences have been based on setting up "accidental" muddings or soakings, so it's fun to watch other girls get into that situation and GO FOR IT.

For me there are two important requirements.

1. The model (or amateur) must be at least somewhat attractive. Some producers make a real effort in only using very hot women in their productions, but as long as the woman has a fairly nice body and face, they meet my expectations in a wam production.

2. Whether they are stunning or plain, they must seem to enjoy getting messy. The most beautiful and highly paid model does nothing for me if she looks bored, or hating the idea of being messed up.

"Do the opposite of Regis" is probably a good motto for anything in life

A bigger point for me is "professional" or amateur PRODUCERS. With the paid stuff, I have a reasonable chance of seeing the model (well-lit, in focus, in the frame] and seeing some aftermath -- maybe even some "beforemath" (the leadup and the victim before the pie hits). The pies are more than some whipped cream on a paper plate.

I've all but stopped going to YouTube links with no previews or descriptions. I am almost always disappointed by bad camerawork (and a camera-operator laughing so hard he/she turns the camera away from the pieing!), bad pies, unattractive victims (if I can see her at all) and everything else I hate. (This is even more of a problem with wetlook youtube "discoveries")


Me, too, which is why I prefer paid WAM videos than "candids."


ROFLMAO!

So your videos consist entirely of things that I wouldn't do? No wonder I've never bought any of them!

I like Amateurs more. While I know some models enjoy it and with others it is just a job, in my mind amateurs enjoy it more. But that is just me.

i am a total amateur and im totally cool with it. i cant pretend to be a "pro" except for custom dealings....and even still then...there are a lot of scenes i have a FUCK TON of fun organizing and putting together and then doing.

i keep it pro as far as payment and stuff for customs but the past two years (mostly last year and the year before) i did about a 60/40 as far as customs and then my own productions. 40 percent being my own stuff that i came up with, that i did for my own fun, enjoyment and something i wanted to have filmed bc it was bad ass and i paid a lot for my fun! hah! trying to make a little of it back!

i have a hard time with word for word scenes. like printing out (in like 14) 15 to 16 pages of SCRIPT. that is supposed to be word for word.....i do have a problem with this because, i am not going to do a scene where i make 100 dollars for the set up, clean up, and learning that many lines so well, that i can still WAM. and no one wants to pay for such a thing. Having to know all of those lines VERBATIM like that and producing and doing everything on my own? it takes away, personally, from any fun i may be having, even under neath my acting like im pissed or humiliated. just give me a main idea and some key points and ill ad lib the fuck out of it! i have done this for several people and they LOVED how it turned out. they said they couldnt have written it better themselves. so, when i get scripts like that, i either tell people to go to rev, the moomins or a bigger producer or, if i explain to them how we roll, send them a vid of me and another model taking their idea and going with it, keeping some script intact....but having some wiggle room. they usually still want it to happen. and that really takes the edge off of looking like a deer in headlights when you forget a line, and this person has worked their dick off on this script verbatim. so, i am just honest! amateur as can be and im okay with that!

i still get shocked by mess....stuff happens all the time, stuff changes. i still get shocked at pies, slime. all of it. its shocking! i mean, think about it. we are fucking rolling in MESS, yall!! lol how is that NOT shocking?! we are doing something so fucking out of the ordinary! i think about that every time i shoot. like, holy shit....no one else i KNOW would do this! and im doing this like crazy! this is wild! still, after almost 8 years. its still wild to me!

ugh. another long jayce post. YAWWWWWN.

i agree with the above, though. a mixed bag is always your best bet

I fell asleep during Jayce's post. Can someone give me the cliff notes?

She doesn't like to read scripts, or read period, and stop making her do it.

thats right, rich!! tell em!!

Well I enjoyed reading that, Jayce, regardless of length

Seriously, your reply shows how hard it is to make a distinction between "professional" and "amateur". I see what you're saying, in that you're not a model paid by producers to WAM for them, and so must be an "amateur".

However, your creativity and production values are a match for anyone in WAM not called "Moomin" (which is hardly a criticism, given the resources they've got), and you are also, without a doubt, one of WAM's A-list superstars. Put that way, you're a "professional" through and through

Jayce, you're as much of a professional as anyone. The only difference with you (and the other models who self-promote) is that you have to put the money up front and take on the burden of risk, like any other producer. A lot of what folks call "professional WAM models" are showing up and getting paid long before the scene gets released (or turns a profit), but that's the only distinction. You just happen to wear both hats (which unfortunately means you can't pay yourself in advance).

The lines were a lot more defined in the 90s. You had a handful of "professionals".... MessyFun, SSS/WAMTEC, and Splosh. They did big-budget (for WAM) shoots and hired lots of full-time fetish models, and the shoots were geared towards covering EVERY niche of WAM at once (1 mud scene, 1 wetlook scene, 1 pie scene, etc etc.). "Amateur" shoots were shot on VHS, typically with bad lighting, and self-released with no big distribution. (Splosh vids used to be sold in UK video stores!!) Easy distinction.

BUT.... A lot of those "amateurs".... like MessyGirl... and Phoebe... and Neil Edwards.... were super-influential on us future producers. And as the lines blurred, MG was definitely a professional (and Neil's PieFightGirls, while it lasted). So who's to say now? I tend to think of "amateur" as something posted on YouTube for free, usually shot and edited casually (if at all), with expectations adjusted accordingly. Any producer or model selling scenes in the UMD Store counts as a "professional" to me, regardless of production values.

Amateur vs Proffessional ......

Such a difficult separation to make...

I now work in a very professional environment, have 15 years experience in wam, but I still would say I'm an amateur. I've no other modelling experience, I have a separate career, I wing it most days.

Jayce alike says she's an amateur, but I think Jayce and Ariel are highly professional.

So without defining the " labels" it's hard to say...

Any ideas??

I think the distinction is one of those things where we all know what we mean, but explaining it is really tricky...