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"Who IS worth $2000, Messygirl?"
Recently you said Kym told you she would do a shoot with you for $2000. The response was that Kym is great, but not $2000 great. Fair enough.
The question is ......... is there a model/actress that you would be willing to pony up that kind of money for?
Let's assume here you could get some bigger names and they were willing, but only for $2000.
The question is ......... is there a model/actress that you would be willing to pony up that kind of money for?
Let's assume here you could get some bigger names and they were willing, but only for $2000.
Personally I think $2000 is a reasonable cost for most models. Let me explain.
I look at the opportunity cost that a model has to pay in order do a messy shot.
I have a friend who's a stripper. And she says she makes about $400 an hour. And that she's pulling in roughly 2k a night.
In order for a model to do a wam shoot, she has to give up other opportunities. She's literally giving up an entire days worth of possible other work. So 2k, in my opinion, is right about how much an adult erotic shoot should cost.
Clothed and non nude scenes are a different story. I pay my models
A much lower fee for services.
I look at the opportunity cost that a model has to pay in order do a messy shot.
I have a friend who's a stripper. And she says she makes about $400 an hour. And that she's pulling in roughly 2k a night.
In order for a model to do a wam shoot, she has to give up other opportunities. She's literally giving up an entire days worth of possible other work. So 2k, in my opinion, is right about how much an adult erotic shoot should cost.
Clothed and non nude scenes are a different story. I pay my models
A much lower fee for services.
I don't think her regular fee is 2k with other wam producers. She was under the impression we would pay more to work with her, because the main wam producer she works for poached our top models at the time, Liz and Vicky.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
MessyDareGirl said:
Bear in mind Mr and Mrs Messygirl need to turn a profit
Bear in mind Mr and Mrs Messygirl need to turn a profit
I never understand this line of thinking. Sure, they need to make a profit, but this doesn't mean that anyone else should change their motivations or price point to accommodate. If a model thinks she's worth $2k, then there is no reason that the needs of an individual producer should make her think otherwise.
This just means that Mr. and Mrs. Messygirl will either:
1. Not use models who are too expensive for a shoot to be profitable
or
2. Not shoot a scene if a model cannot be hired profitably
Mr_MG said: I don't think her regular fee is 2k with other wam producers. She was under the impression we would pay more to work with her, because the main wam producer she works for poached our top models at the time, Liz and Vicky.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
(you throw shade as well as you throw pies!
) I DO NOT RECRUIT MODELS FROM OTHER PRODUCERS! PERIOD.
Back in 2006 when I began searching for talent for wetandmessy.com, I setup a profile on the modeling website OneModelPlace. This enabled me to receive daily notifications of when glamour and fetish models were available for work in Los Angeles. Even before my site launched, I was getting emails that Liz Ashley or London Andrews (aka: Vicky) and Kymberly Jane would be traveling to Los Angeles. Despite my desire to work with them, I did not pursue them and considered them off limits.
After my site launched, Neil at Piefightgirls.com contacted me. He was very interested in working with Naomi K and asked me if I could put him in touch with her. We met for drinks and I gave him Naomi's contact info. At that time Neil suggested I hire Kym and I did.
A year and a half after I had first started shooting for my site, after disregarding countless email notifications that Liz Ashley was coming to Los Angeles, I got an email directly from Liz asking if I wanted to shoot her for my site. I did.
The situation with London Andrews (aka Vicky) was more complicated. As I understand it, she had signed an exclusive agreement with Messygirl for which she received no additional compensation. She came to me by way of another model, and when we spoke I told her I was a messy producer. We were not able to work together at that time. Some time later, she approached me and said she was now available to shoot with other messy producers, so we shot a few times.
This is the history of the how Liz, Vicky, and Kym came to be on my site (and how Naomi K ended up on piefightgirls.) I don't pursue models that work with other messy producers; I don't contact them or solicit them to model for me. If they reach out to me I will hire them. This is what I'm comfortable with.
wetandmessy| wamclub | mywam | mudmatches
Regis said: If I ever become a producer, I'm going to steal ALL of your models. And I'm not giving them back, either!
There are laws!!!
wetandmessy| wamclub | mywam | mudmatches
No one is worth 2k as long as they keep finding angels like Amy and Penelope.
I like that Emma quite a bit as well.
I like that Emma quite a bit as well.
wamfan said:
(you throw shade as well as you throw pies! )
I DO NOT RECRUIT MODELS FROM OTHER PRODUCERS! PERIOD.
Back in 2006 when I began searching for talent for wetandmessy.com, I setup a profile on the modeling website OneModelPlace. This enabled me to receive daily notifications of when glamour and fetish models were available for work in Los Angeles. Even before my site launched, I was getting emails that Liz Ashley or London Andrews (aka: Vicky) and Kymberly Jane would be traveling to Los Angeles. Despite my desire to work with them, I did not pursue them and considered them off limits.
After my site launched, Neil at Piefightgirls.com contacted me. He was very interested in working with Naomi K and asked me if I could put him in touch with her. We met for drinks and I gave him Naomi's contact info. At that time Neil suggested I hire Kym and I did.
A year and a half after I had first started shooting for my site, after disregarding countless email notifications that Liz Ashley was coming to Los Angeles, I got an email directly from Liz asking if I wanted to shoot her for my site. I did.
The situation with London Andrews (aka Vicky) was more complicated. As I understand it, she had signed an exclusive agreement with Messygirl for which she received no additional compensation. She came to me by way of another model, and when we spoke I told her I was a messy producer. We were not able to work together at that time. Some time later, she approached me and said she was now available to shoot with other messy producers, so we shot a few times.
This is the history of the how Liz, Vicky, and Kym came to be on my site (and how Naomi K ended up on piefightgirls.) I don't pursue models that work with other messy producers; I don't contact them or solicit them to model for me. If they reach out to me I will hire them. This is what I'm comfortable with.
Mr_MG said: I don't think her regular fee is 2k with other wam producers. She was under the impression we would pay more to work with her, because the main wam producer she works for poached our top models at the time, Liz and Vicky.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashely Graham.
(you throw shade as well as you throw pies!
) I DO NOT RECRUIT MODELS FROM OTHER PRODUCERS! PERIOD.
Back in 2006 when I began searching for talent for wetandmessy.com, I setup a profile on the modeling website OneModelPlace. This enabled me to receive daily notifications of when glamour and fetish models were available for work in Los Angeles. Even before my site launched, I was getting emails that Liz Ashley or London Andrews (aka: Vicky) and Kymberly Jane would be traveling to Los Angeles. Despite my desire to work with them, I did not pursue them and considered them off limits.
After my site launched, Neil at Piefightgirls.com contacted me. He was very interested in working with Naomi K and asked me if I could put him in touch with her. We met for drinks and I gave him Naomi's contact info. At that time Neil suggested I hire Kym and I did.
A year and a half after I had first started shooting for my site, after disregarding countless email notifications that Liz Ashley was coming to Los Angeles, I got an email directly from Liz asking if I wanted to shoot her for my site. I did.
The situation with London Andrews (aka Vicky) was more complicated. As I understand it, she had signed an exclusive agreement with Messygirl for which she received no additional compensation. She came to me by way of another model, and when we spoke I told her I was a messy producer. We were not able to work together at that time. Some time later, she approached me and said she was now available to shoot with other messy producers, so we shot a few times.
This is the history of the how Liz, Vicky, and Kym came to be on my site (and how Naomi K ended up on piefightgirls.) I don't pursue models that work with other messy producers; I don't contact them or solicit them to model for me. If they reach out to me I will hire them. This is what I'm comfortable with.
Hmm, maybe an email from you asking if it would be cool for you to shoot with someone who has been the face of Messygirl for the past 5 years. Kind of like what Rich did when his customers were inquiring about Amy or Phil when he asked about Liz shooting for him or us when we inquired about Kym with you. We also didn't appreciate you picking Liz's brain on how we do our grease shoots or how you wanted to sign London to a contract that would not allow her to shoot for us. (That's what she told us). Leah and I will be happy to iron all this out with you in Vegas.
Mr_MG said: Leah and I will be happy to iron all this out with you in Vegas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0-DlkLfEiM
 Love you, too |
Regis said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0-DlkLfEiM
Mr_MG said: Leah and I will be happy to iron all this out with you in Vegas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0-DlkLfEiM
This again...
wetandmessy| wamclub | mywam | mudmatches
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Love you, too |
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Love you, too |
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Love you, too |
As a full-time store system operator and only a part-time shooter, I've had several models that went on to shoot for other sites. Star Nine later went to GungeGirls and a few others. Wednesday went to Messygirl, etc. I hooked up with Kym a couple years ago because she was working with other producers in Vegas and was attending the AVN trade show. She was no longer exclusive and was starting to work with other WAM producers, so it worked out well for me.
Touring models like Kym and Star generally won't get out of bed for less than a grand. Vegas is an easy gig for most of the SoCal fetish girls because it's a 4-5 hr drive or a 1 hr flight. Even if I don't have a grand worth of shoots, they can usually find work with another local producer to fill out the day. They all have friends here to stay with and some even drive back the same evening. Going some place like Texas, NY, or Miami would logically be a lot more expensive due to air travel, hotels, car rentals, etc. Those things have a time cost as well, killing an entire day that's not available to them for paying work.
Touring models like Kym and Star generally won't get out of bed for less than a grand. Vegas is an easy gig for most of the SoCal fetish girls because it's a 4-5 hr drive or a 1 hr flight. Even if I don't have a grand worth of shoots, they can usually find work with another local producer to fill out the day. They all have friends here to stay with and some even drive back the same evening. Going some place like Texas, NY, or Miami would logically be a lot more expensive due to air travel, hotels, car rentals, etc. Those things have a time cost as well, killing an entire day that's not available to them for paying work.
wamfan said: This again...
So this LA producer called "Brand Design" gets a generic standard email from Liz like probably over 50 other LA producers got from her. I bet she didn't know you did WAM until the day of the shoot. We are still waiting for the courtesy email from you asking if it would be ok if Liz shot for you. I'm sure you just forgot to push send. Liz told us you asked how we did the grease shoot. Vicky told us you offered her 1k to not shoot for us again. So they felt it would be cool to just lie to us like this? Kym sent us emails gloating that she was working with Vicky. I'm sure you all had a good laugh over that. And don't tell me you didn't know that your girl Kym was going around and slander me as a pervert and to not shoot for Messygirl. We had Cali booked and when her gal pal Kym found out, she talked her out of it. We know this because your girl Kym sent us an email saying she would. You can deny all you want that you didn't know she was doing this, but come on, you two were like peas in a pod. You knew.
The WAM Trendsetter Since 1997
Wammer83: you bring up opportunity cost to the model.
Yes, it is logical and rational that, if given the choice between
1) a Playboy shoot for $10,000
2) a WAM shoot for $2,000
that the model would choose 1 over 2.
But, that does not make $2000 worth it to the WAM producer,
if the WAM producer is able to make only $100 selling the video to customers
Don't equate the value to the model of an alternative to the value to the WAM producer.
Some things that we'd like to do are simply unaffordable.
Yes, it is logical and rational that, if given the choice between
1) a Playboy shoot for $10,000
2) a WAM shoot for $2,000
that the model would choose 1 over 2.
But, that does not make $2000 worth it to the WAM producer,
if the WAM producer is able to make only $100 selling the video to customers
Don't equate the value to the model of an alternative to the value to the WAM producer.
Some things that we'd like to do are simply unaffordable.
Dr Zoidberg said: Wammer83: you bring up opportunity cost to the model.
Yes, it is logical and rational that, if given the choice between
1) a Playboy shoot for $10,000
2) a WAM shoot for $2,000
that the model would choose 1 over 2.
But, that does not make $2000 worth it to the WAM producer,
if the WAM producer is able to make only $100 selling the video to customers
Don't equate the value to the model of an alternative to the value to the WAM producer.
Some things that we'd like to do are simply unaffordable.
Yes, it is logical and rational that, if given the choice between
1) a Playboy shoot for $10,000
2) a WAM shoot for $2,000
that the model would choose 1 over 2.
But, that does not make $2000 worth it to the WAM producer,
if the WAM producer is able to make only $100 selling the video to customers
Don't equate the value to the model of an alternative to the value to the WAM producer.
Some things that we'd like to do are simply unaffordable.
Another stipulation she made was that she would only do solos at that price.
I've never understood the entire battle between wetandmessy.com and MessyGirl, nor do I particularly care, but the shit-tossing back and forth every couple of years frankly just makes both of you look bad, and at least in MessyGirl's case, petty. Secret slime and grease recipes, conspiracies to blacklist each other from models' 'will work with' lists, and in the latest post a suggestion to 'settle' all this in Vegas by MrMG (which, given his physical stature, can only mean an epic pie fight...good for the rest of us??), is just hilarious. This ain't Watergate and nobody 'owns' a model unless they've got a non-compete clause in their contract with you. I don't know about other producers but I've had models go off and shoot for other sites for the same fetish multiple times over the years and it's never bothered me.
Here is what I don't get. Why does it matter what one producer is willing to pay a model. That should be between a model and a producer? Also if there is a personal problem between two producers shouldn't that be handled on the producers page instead of in this open forum to allow every non stakeholder such as myself to voice their opinion on something we have no say over.
Models can work for whoever they like!!! This is a load of crap! When I was shooting I was accused of the same thing, jezzz get over it! Its tough enough making any $$$ out of shooting WAM, who needs this stupid drama?
Phil
Phil
It's a little sad to see. MG came first, and I have been more faithful a customer, but WetandMessy released some good stuff in the days I personally consider the golden age of WAM sites. I noticed the model crossover, but didn't know the drama. I'm not saying producers can't have their drama, I'm saying, some customers were happy just being members of both sites and thinking that the more shoots done with some of the greatest models of the day, the more the customers won.
This is not to belittle your feud at all. It's just to say, I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes in those days, and I'm darn glad I didn't, because 80% of my favorite WAM shoots were done in those days with models who popped up on both sites. It's your decision to discuss grievances publicly, but, perhaps one might wonder for a moment of the marketing effect of the customer seeing too much of how the sausages are made, so to speak. If I knew at the time, I would have been conflicted, and it probably would have affected my purchasing behavior. In what way, I'm not certain. I am loyal to producers to an extent, but the models themselves generate a lot of "good will," and one wants to incentivize their favorite models to keep doing this kind of shoot.
That said, MG, you used to have great curvy brunette models (not just Vicky, but including yourself!) and there are few currently on the roster who seem to fit that bill. I know my business is not the be-all end-all, and I don't get to decide, I'm not entitled like that, but I just thought I'd mention that some of us miss the great models in that category, a category which MG has traditionally dominated.
Anyway, it's not up to me, but I want to put on my best Florence Henderson impression and do a "girls, you're both pretty" here.
This is not to belittle your feud at all. It's just to say, I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes in those days, and I'm darn glad I didn't, because 80% of my favorite WAM shoots were done in those days with models who popped up on both sites. It's your decision to discuss grievances publicly, but, perhaps one might wonder for a moment of the marketing effect of the customer seeing too much of how the sausages are made, so to speak. If I knew at the time, I would have been conflicted, and it probably would have affected my purchasing behavior. In what way, I'm not certain. I am loyal to producers to an extent, but the models themselves generate a lot of "good will," and one wants to incentivize their favorite models to keep doing this kind of shoot.
That said, MG, you used to have great curvy brunette models (not just Vicky, but including yourself!) and there are few currently on the roster who seem to fit that bill. I know my business is not the be-all end-all, and I don't get to decide, I'm not entitled like that, but I just thought I'd mention that some of us miss the great models in that category, a category which MG has traditionally dominated.
Anyway, it's not up to me, but I want to put on my best Florence Henderson impression and do a "girls, you're both pretty" here.
MudMadPhil said: Models can work for whoever they like!!! This is a load of crap! When I was shooting I was accused of the same thing, jezzz get over it! Its tough enough making any $$$ out of shooting WAM, who needs this stupid drama?
Phil
Phil
Sure, a model can work with anyone they want, until they work with you, and they sign your release form that states they can't work for another wam producer for 3 months, after shooting with you. Kobe Lee was booked during her Texas tour. After shooting for you and signing your model agreement that states she can't work for another wam producer, she had to cancel our shoots. That is a load of crap if you ask me.
Mr_MG said:
Sure, a model can work with anyone they want, until they work with you, and they sign your release form that states they can't work for another wam producer for 3 months, after shooting with you. Kobe Lee was booked during her Texas tour. After shooting for you and signing your model agreement that states she can't work for another wam producer, she had to cancel our shoots. That is a load of crap if you ask me.
MudMadPhil said: Models can work for whoever they like!!! This is a load of crap! When I was shooting I was accused of the same thing, jezzz get over it! Its tough enough making any $$$ out of shooting WAM, who needs this stupid drama?
Phil
Phil
Sure, a model can work with anyone they want, until they work with you, and they sign your release form that states they can't work for another wam producer for 3 months, after shooting with you. Kobe Lee was booked during her Texas tour. After shooting for you and signing your model agreement that states she can't work for another wam producer, she had to cancel our shoots. That is a load of crap if you ask me.
I have to agree. If a lady knitted me a scarf, it would be silly to have her sign something that says she can't knit anyone else a scarf for 3 months.
Myds said: It's a little sad to see. MG came first, and I have been more faithful a customer, but WetandMessy released some good stuff in the days I personally consider the golden age of WAM sites. I noticed the model crossover, but didn't know the drama. I'm not saying producers can't have their drama, I'm saying, some customers were happy just being members of both sites and thinking that the more shoots done with some of the greatest models of the day, the more the customers won.
I'm not really that bothered about producers falling out, as I - seriously - think it's interesting to get this rare peek behind the scenes, regardless of whether it's good or bad.
No, the illusion-killer for me is when someone turns out to be not who you thought. So, what troubles me far more about this spat is that Kym apparently said unpleasant things about MG, as well as sending her gloating e mails. That's not good.
moreslime said:
No, the illusion-killer for me is when someone turns out to be not who you thought. So, what troubles me far more about this spat is that Kym apparently said unpleasant things about MG, as well as sending her gloating e mails. That's not good.
No, the illusion-killer for me is when someone turns out to be not who you thought. So, what troubles me far more about this spat is that Kym apparently said unpleasant things about MG, as well as sending her gloating e mails. That's not good.
Sure. That's bad. That's not personally what I meant. I wasn't talking about Kym specifically, but other models around that time (at least one of which was brought up above). I was worried some of my other favorite models would stop doing WAM shoots. Which, considering the fequency, they pretty much have by now.
Mr_MG said:
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashley Graham.
If we could get any top model for 2k it would be curvy Ashley Graham.
Now THAT's a video I wanna see! Whoever makes this happen first out of MG and wamfan wins this argument by default.
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