https://chng.it/8HnPCrXSY6

There are only two countries in the world where representatives of the state religion automatically get seats in Parliament. They are the UK and Iran.

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2023/02/sandi-toksvig-starts-petition-to-remove-bishops-from-lords

Instinctively, I start with a lot of sympathy for you.
Then, think that these Bishops are frequently more in tune with progressive thought
than we give them credit for.
A few years ago, I helped my mum attend the parish church, after years of absence.
She found a body of charitable attendees who devoted their time to maintaining a food bank.
Inclusion suddenly counted more than judgment
I feel that the enlightened C of E here is held back by the fear of division.
The contrast between UK and Iran is not really fair.
In Iran, if you think for yourself you face persecution and death.
In the UK, you face nothing worse than intense contemplation.
Thanks, Peter

Sorry, but no. The Bishops will side with progression only when it makes them look good, they will still be anti-LGBT+ at any opportunity, which is a death sentence for some.
We do not need a 2000 year old fictional book with out dated concepts of morality dictating what a huge populous does, especially when the majority don't believe in the said book!

Yes, having been brought up in a strict, puritanical religion I left all that behind aged 18 or 19 and I largely agree with you about the ancient fiction! Except that I think that bits of it are true, parts of it are myths and most of it is propaganda! Just like a lot of historical documents!

I was referring to a wide range of issues where Bishops have spoken out against Government policy.

On LGBT+ issues, Churches are divided. Where I live, in Scotland, the Episcopalian (Anglican) Church provides same-sex marriage and the clergy is open to all. Other Churches have moved some way in that direction.

It is as if we are on a journey. At the front of the bus, those seeking progress look eagerly ahead to justice and equality. Many behind them are a bit unfamiliar with this route, but they are willing to go along. At the back of the bus, some read the 2,000-year-old atlas and are convinced that we are going in the wrong direction.

Some of those at the back are not open to rational debate, but I don't think that we should condemn all religions. When the Church moves on these issues, it helps to move the flagstones in the road.

Peter

In principle I would like to see the whole House of Lords disbanded. In practice there are many times when the House of Lords is more in tune with the population than our elected House of Commons. However the bishops in the lords are a problem for the church the state and those of us who are LBGT+, non-religious, non-CofE and the devolved nations. It's all about the C of E being the state religion. It's tearing the church in two. The C of E is part of the larger Anglican Church. Most of the Anglican Church is not in the UK let alone in England. Many Anglican Bishops have now severed links with the C of E over blessings for same sex couples. Basically the bishops being in the House of Lords puts them in a position where they are torn between representing a state and Anglicans. Then take into account these church of ENGLAND bishops are voting on matters that affect the devolved nations as much as England and it's clearly morally wrong, anti democratic and anti equality. The comparison with Iran is fair in that it highlights how even nations we would consider consider to be repressive with lack of human rights etc etc don't have clerics in government.

I tend not to wade in very often to topics like this because I believe people have the right to either have religious beliefs or to not have them, and exercise their voices provided either camp doesn't try to harm others freedoms.

That said. I have to respectifully disagree here. as regards the composition of irans government the exact opposite is the case. Having friends who fled Iran that lost family and have talked to me about the government there, there is absolutely no comparison. Yes the Iranian government is dominated by clerics who turn the gears more so than any western country UK or otherwise. From the Supreme leader who is the ultimate religious authority and head of government who appoints each member of the guardian council and can dismiss the council members if he wishes (12 person committee composed of half religious jurists and half religious clerics. ) The council along with the Supreme leader can veto abolish or repeal any law, they can declare an election closed, disqualify candidates who don't meet their mark, the council has also shut down legislation on human rights, banning torture, more freedom for women etc. This is just one of many examples of the government having been entirely co-opted.


The friends I have would automatically get imprisoned tortured, likely raped and even more likely killed if they returned. Is there still a conflict of interest with the CoE automatically being able to vote on things and be seen as a state religion yes, quite likely. are some members of that organization behind the times? It wouldn't surprise me, but I firmly reject the notion it is anywhere near as influential or repressive as the individuals in control of the current Iranian government the facts just don't bear that out.

Democracy is a messy project but nonetheless in democracies though progress is slow it moves forward, and the ability of people in a democracy to even be able to voice or even vote in a stupid way is something that cant be removed fully from western democracy, Because it counts on the majority of people who have sane minds to prevail.


I leave the brutal murders of individuals who participated In the Arab spring to demand human rights over 10 years ago and the recent murder of Mahsa Amini by the government and subsequent arrests tortures rapes and murders of people protesting her unjust murder as plenty of evidence to the fact that there is no contest.

I think Sandi Toksvig"s heart is in the right place but her blanket comparisons without even delving beyond the surface to do basic research is a dangerous and I'll informed comparison.

Again the part at the end of my last post people use the comparison to highlight the fact that we are the only country whose values are what most of us would consider basic human values in line with human rights that has clerics in government positions. No one is claiming the UKs government is as bad as Irans. Drawing the comparison is done in this case to highlight a glaring fly in the ointment not to belittle the problems of refugees or people living in countries with oppressive regimes. I fully appreciate that as an LGBT+ apostate there are many countries where I would face terrible persecution and even execution however I equally appreciate that we only have the freedoms we do because the people of this country have fought for them. If those who see issues don't continue to high light them and campaign for them then there's a possibility of backwards steps and things getting worse. I'm not anti religion. I am pro democracy and equality.