Nonsense! And I told my neighborhood blacksmith that just the other day.

The hysteria in this discussion is amazing. And why I will now climb back into my bunker.

In my case, no one here makes WAM that caters to my interests (sure, some *technically* tick the boxes, but "technically" doesn't cut it when it comes to visual pleasure). On top of that, my specific fetish (ultra-formal attire with jewelry, styled hair, etc) is prohibitively expensive for me to engage in in real life (hence the main reason I only actually get my dresses wet and not messy).

I've looked into customs to fulfill my desires, and the costs are even further beyond the average custom price because most models just don't have the type of stuff I'm into in their wardrobes, and if they do, they aren't willing to trash them. So on top of the cost of the custom, I'd have to buy all the items (the producers I looked into don't accept Goodwill lingerie, and in some cases, wouldn't accept used clothing in general, so the dress and shoes and everything would also have to be brand new), pay for shipping, hope the items I bought are what was actually pictured, and then hope the models go through with the whole process of getting dressed up fancy with hair and makeup and everything, and perform in a way I'll enjoy.

For the customs I looked into, I'd be looking at a full month's pay or more, just for a single-model, single-scene 30-minute video. For a producer, you might eventually recoup those costs by selling it in your store (probably not though, since my custom would be so niche). For me? I get a video that may or may not even satisfy what I was looking for in the first place, and am out a month's pay either way.

You belittling potential customers for not being able to afford customs is one of the reasons people like me don't bother trying for customs anymore. AI is a bandaid for that problem, but as many have said here, AI just doesn't have the same benefits as real people doing WAM. Many of us who use AI for WAM purposes would gladly buy customs if we had the money to afford them. And I'm pretty sure 90+% of us AI users would drop AI if we had both the money and a partner/models to produce our own.


All that said, I'll make my own AI stuff but will never try to sell it, and am very unlikely to buy anyone else's AI-produced WAM (with the exception of AI use in editing, as Nostalgic Erotic Prod mentioned). I genuinely want human-produced WAM to remain human-produced.

There are many producers here that have made that kind of content. I know because I have purchased it. There are also producers whose actions have lead to them being banned from this site that made that kind of content. It is getting harder to find that kind of content. I think it is a cost thing. However, I know that JD and Andi already make the formal content you are describing and depending on your definition of ultra formal, may have already made it. I know that they work with second hand clothing sometimes. I don't know if they offer customs, but they might fit your niche since it is already in their wheel house.

I've been on this site for a long time, years before I made an actual account, and have only seen a very small handful of videos or photo sets that actually fulfilled what I've been looking for. Messy Jessie made one of my all-time favorites, but even that wasn't quite what I was looking for. Jayce, Bri, RevSlymsford, and a few others have made ones that were close, but not quite what I was hoping for.

Yes, there is a lot of formal wam, but not formal wam that ticks all my boxes. While I enjoy a wide variety of WAM, I am very picky when it comes to what I enjoy most. My ultimate fantasies aren't being produced, and are growing more unaffordable than ever.

Like I said, they might *technically* tick the boxes, but *technically* doesn't cut it when it comes to visual pleasure.

This. This post is why WAM is going to be a huge trouble as AI advances. I'm also very picky when it comes to my pie fetish. Has to be a multiple girl scene, hard pie hits, humiliation, etc...and ever since I joined this forum (since its inception, I'm on my second user name) I can count on one hand the pie videos that have been produced that met those requirements. Rob Blaine's 12 girl pie fight was one of them. now 99% of what's being produced for pie vids is "girl sits in chair, gets hit with 50 pies." Yawn.

I'm optimistic about the relationship between AI and live-action WAM videos.

While some people may become satisfied with AI videos and stop buying existing live-action content, I believe there will always be a certain percentage of people who value the fact that "real people are actually doing WAM", no matter how much AI advances.

However, it will become increasingly difficult to distinguish whether short videos, say 10 seconds long, are AI-generated or live-action. My Twitter timeline is already flooded with AI-generated videos. For those seeking live-action content, searching online could become increasingly inefficient going forward.

In such a situation, the track record and credibility of producers or websites -- like "this producer only releases live-action videos" or "this website only features live-action content"-- will become increasingly important. For live-action producers, I believe it will be crucial not to release AI-generated videos half-heartedly.

To be fair, I should add that I am not an AI skeptic. I use AI on a daily basis. This post was translated by AI.

This description is excellent.

Most users of AI have no training in art or illustration. They think more detail means more realistic, and it doesn't. Stuff like Veo 3 and Kling nails the detail but fails on the form. A lot of the YouTube AI WAM creators put a lot of effort into getting it to make a 'contraption' and seem to disregard the fact that the mess looks singularly unconvincing. The more of this there is, the less that people can see the potential of what is currently possible if you do your own finetuning.

I honestly think the future is people making their own personal material rather than "AI producers" selling their own AI video to other people.

A big part of my WAM enjoyment is the actual mess itself and not even how messy it gets. So, knowing that someone is not actually getting messy takes me out of a good bit, so much so that I can barely enjoy any WAM that I see now unless I'm 100% sure that it is real.

I don't think there's any doubt that real WAM is better. I can't imagine paying for AI WAM someone else has produced.

That said, getting customs is a pain in the neck. Twice this year I"ve tried to order one from different producers. One we negotiated for a while, agreed a price, and then they stopped replying. The second one agreed a price, took my money, then didn't do it. So if I can get what I want artificially, but it still looks realistic enough, then I'm ok with creating it myself and avoiding all that hassle.

I hope you got your money back. If not, please let MM know and let others on the site know about the producers actions. Others may be suffering in silence after having the same thing done to them. People who are not going to make the custom once they have the money should not be approved by this site to offer customs.

Real WAM is the same as AI. Consuming internet pictures. If you haven't ever created real WAM material..STFU!.

Not even close for a number of factors. Any WAM producer will tell you that. Any model who has filmed WAM will tell you that.

Here I thought the disrespect for what producers of real WAM and models do had reached its peak. I was wrong. Please continue telling producers and models how worthless their talents are by claiming it is the same.

I've thought the same about CGI in movies/TV. If you pay close enough attention, you can still tell when it's real vs created with computers, especially when it comes to people and their faces. Motion capture and dedicated editing can do amazing things, but struggle with the subtle stuff that truly makes humans human.

I honestly don't expect AI or CGI to ever fully reach that point, because even we humans sometimes struggle with the uncanny valley. Like you said, we can tell something seems off, but can't always figure out what the issue is. Some people will be ok with that, some will consume at face value and not even notice the difference, and others will only consume human-made media.

Personally I don't think AI will ever capture the true expressions of someone being gunged. We have had some amazing models and it is always their reaction of being dunked or gunged that is the appeal. For many it's knowing how cold the tank can be or the anticipation of being sat on the seat waiting.

Another huge point, if AI were to take on the mainstream of WAM, how keen would you be for an "AI Session" or AI Gunge ? Without the producers using real models, real Gunge and materials, real gunge or dunk tanks as well as having the studio or space then sessions would no doubt end. The dream of actually being sat in a Gunge Tank would end up being some AI reality with some meta goggles or similar to experience the delights of a true gunging.

Not an AI fan. Just no but it's taking over anyway. Younger and older folks I know - some think it's amazing. While others like myself do not.

Thanks. I haven't got it back as of yet. I've asked but I'm now waiting to see if they ever action it. Messmaster does know about as the producer was approved to offer customs, but they're not anymore. I did create a thread on it a couple of months back, and I did have someone private message me saying they were in the same boat, but just the one.

I will never buy AI WAM content. I rarely buy real WAM content as it is, mostly due to how picky I am about what I like, so why would I pay money for a low-quality imitation?

And yes, it will stay low-quality. I don't buy the "it'll get better" argument. AI won't learn to make high-quality, flawlessly realistic work because that's not how it's used now. It's used for instant gratification, and to churn out slop for adverts and clickbait that panders to/tricks toddlers, the elderly, and other vulnerable people. The number of people using AI who actually care about a quality product is totally insignificant, because the people who care about quality products don't use AI.

As consumers, we're all wankers here.


I care about quality and I use AI. The fact that almost all the AI stuff people see is crap doesn't mean that good quality fantasy videos aren't possible. People's opinions on AI are based on the crap stuff because that's all they've seen, so they think things like "it will never capture a realistic reaction" and "the slime never looks convincing", when I've made AI videos focusing on realistic reactions and realistic slime.

I get why most people don't like AI. I also think it isn't going to replace any real producers. I don't understand when people make the argument that it's absolutely terrible but also at the same time a threat to people who make real videos.

If people don't want to buy your videos, make better videos. Stop shooting on your phone and get a proper camera. Learn how to use it. Think about how you're shooting it. Get a studio space so you're not shooting in your bathroom or garage or back garden. Get proper lighting. Hire professional models. Make better slime. When I look at the quality of videos that were for sale 10 or 15 years ago, and compare them to now, the difference is massive. If real producers made something like this gif it would sell like hot cakes.

Lots of great responses, thanks to all who've participated so far, sorry I've not had the time to engage and reply individually as much as I would have liked to.

At 276 votes so far I think this has been my most successful UMD poll ever. And as far as I know all the responses are from real people, not AI bots.

So far, with a day to go, the results are pretty much as I expected, the overwhelming majority want real people WAM, and of those who'd pay for some version of AI, it's acess to the systems to generate rather than buying already-made content that is in the lead, although I'm surprised by the number willing to buy ready-made AI scenes, I was expecting that to be much lower. Interesting to know there may well be a market for generated AI scenes eventually. Meanwhile we're continuing to shoot real-world scenes here at the hall, we did six new wetlook ones on Saturday, three of them using the gunge tank filled with water, which was great fun.

The poll still has a day to go so please keep voting and commenting.

I think the thing the people who are all on the AI bandwagon need to understand is no matter how good a machine can be at creating an image or rendering a character, there will always be that hint of authenticity that is missing. Even the worst played out WAM scenes possess it. Something that is uniquely human and individualistic.

It's one of my greatest lessons when shooting our content. I could give a direction to one of our wrestlers and no matter how hard they try, no matter how many takes we shoot or how well I explain it out, it will NEVER exactly match the vision in my head because their shared experience is nothing like mine and my shared experience is nothing like theirs. We both have two very separate ways of looking at the same scene. They maybe similar but they are never exact. From our mannerisms to reactions. Mandii's interpretation of angry will never match mine and my interpretation of surprise will never match hers. That's the beauty of acting. What we consider little flaws are what makes it one of a kind. Sure, AI might make a good approximation but it will never be 100% real and I think a lot of people see that.

This right here is the truth. Current reality is commercial and opensource models don't do wam very well. They're trained on vast dataset of 10s of millions of images and videos. The amount of wam content is miniscule in them and it shows in the output. Add to that, most people don't really know how to prompt the models well means you're always going to see a poor output.
The commercial models make AI more and more accessible, so unfortunately, the overwhelming amount of output is going to look poor. That said, such is the nature of advancement, this is not going to always be the case.

I'm still doubtful the quality of commercial models is ever going to be good enough though, if the model doesn't know the concept or have enough training material it's always going to struggle. Which brings the discussion to opensource models which are smaller but more customizable and trainable.
The downside to these is accessibility and ease of use. You need good hardware to run these and there is a learning curve which most people won't want to spend the time getting to grips with. I can count on 4 fingers the number of people here who are actively creating good custom AI. I've seen a lot of overtrained and undertrained models and even worse results than commercial models.

I'm in agreement with thereald, I don't see AI taking the place of real producers anytime soon. I can see AI complementing their output for those that want to explore that and I can also see AI developing alongside real wam content.
The argument of "All AI is crap" and "AI is going to kill producers" is contradictory. AI can produce good output, it will get better but as many have said already it's not and won't be comparable to the real thing.

No, it's not. I like both your real pics of your girlfriend/wife and your AI stuff, but I prefer the real. Why? Dumb answer, but because it is real. I know there was a pretty woman, in a skirt and pantyhose, being pied well.
Yes, I am a consumer, not a producer, but I like to know that the event actually happened to a real woman. Another example, I like mainstream WAM. I like the fact that Alyssa Milano had a tremendous cake thrown in her face-- it really happened. If you sent me an AI of the same event (leaving aside consent issues) it just wouldn't be the same. Hard to explain, but that is how I feel.

I want to urge caution here, because this is not as simple or straightforward as it seems. As flank has already pointed out, this is not just a question of quality or realism. It's also a question of how the overall ecosystem is arranged:


I think maybe thereald and messg are assuming that the playing field will remain relatively level, as it is now. But there's no guarantee that that will happen. If, following flank's example, we lose the ability to easily toggle or filter between AI material and natural material, then that may drive away some percentage of the site's user base, which in turn would lower the customer base for producers' material. This has nothing at all to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of AI material. It's strictly a matter of how the environment or ecosystem is structured.

And it's not just a matter of trust, which is the issue that flank describes. It could also just purely be a matter of quantity. AI tools can generate new material at speeds that are multiple orders of magnitude faster than humans can generate material on their own. As a result, even if a user only accidentally sees, say, 1% of the AI material that they're trying to filter out, it's still possible on a purely numerical basis that the 1% of AI material will be so voluminous that it drowns out natural material--regardless of how good or bad or believable the AI material is.

So, like, basically what I'm saying is that this is complicated. It may seem like an obvious contradiction to say "AI material is inferior and will also destroy everything else," but those two things are not actually mutually exclusive. Right now we're living in a world where natural WAM material is pretty well-protected, which is thanks to the efforts of our site admins. But that could easily change, just as it has already changed at places like YouTube (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dimitarmixmihov/2025/02/17/youtube-is-flooded-with-ai-slop---and-it-will-get-worse), Spotify (https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/ai-slop-invading-spotify-discover-weekly-playlists), facebook (https://mashable.com/article/facebook-reels-ai-slop), and so on.

AI is a useful tool to spark something odd. But it should never replace something you'd pay for.

If I want a detailed picture of one of my original characters to go on a t-shirt, I will pay an artist on etsy. If I want a 2000 word short story written I will do it my damn self.

If I want a picture of Cthulu manning the decks at an Ibiza rave for Deep Ones, a Socialist Realism propaganda picture of the Chuckle Brothers or a Space Marine in Australian Cricket colours (for in the grim darkness of the future there is only Waugh), I will use AI.

Truth be told, AI lacks that Human touch.

Sure folk can (and have) always say "its the new normal", "its cheaper and better", "its quicker and easier" or whatever reason to try to validate their justification of using it in any form.

But really, in my view, I see them excuses of not doing the arts yourself. Because anyone can do this (in our case, be it self pie-ing or going out there and interacting with others interested in the same fetish and like pie each other or whatever).

Feels like using AI is a refusal to get better at said thing that is generated by a machine. Want to draw? Then draw. Want to write a story? Then write it. Want to make a video? Then make a video. Want a cute dom woman to smash a pie in your face? Then go out there, make connections/relationships and fulfill that.

It doesn't matter if the works aren't perfect (no one is at the beginning honestly), the point is that there was actual effort to making it, learn your mistakes and that you keep going at it again. With patience, eventually you'll improve and be the ideal artist you wanted to be.

But that's only actually possible if you don't waste your time on using AI Slop.

Thinking that where AI is now is where AI will end up would be like going into an arcade in 1980, playing asteroids and saying "well it'll never get better than this."

But it is still just a game. No matter how good it may get, it's still a cartoon. An animation. None of it is real, not even the characters. It will always be absent of humanity because let's face facts, we are still trying to comprehend what it is to be fully human ourselves.

Can it be a good tool? Absolutely. Automation of my edits makes short work of my wedding video clips or photo galleries. It may even revolutionize the gaming world which I certainly wouldn't complain about a more realistic Battlefield game.

Buying videos created by it as a replacement for real videos created with real models or actors? Lol no.

Of course, things can be complicated. I don't think your view is contradictory to mine. People might stop buying from a producer that starts using AI, I don't disagree with that. Your language suggests you view AI as a bad thing that we need to shield against, is that the case?

I think what people are really saying when they say "AI is terrible and it threatens real producers" is that they just want AI images and videos to go away. They want to stop seeing them, because they are crap. They assume it will threaten "real producers" because they see these spammy videos taking up space on the forums that once contained trailers for real scenes. But they don't know it will. When you look at the actual sales, are they really down because of AI spam or because of other reasons?

I've stopped buying scenes on UMD because none of them appeal to me. I think the last scenes I bought were a couple of mud scenes about 6 months ago, and before that I think some stuff from Jeremy Custard. Going back a few years, I'd be buying from Mostwam, Glamorgunge, Gungegirls, the Kowalskis, Totally Gunged, Wamshorts, and I'd usually have a Messy Mayhem streaming subscription on the go. All that stuff that I enjoyed has stopped, with the exception of Messy Mayhem which has massively slowed down. All the stuff i see now lacks production value (with a few exceptions), or gives me an ick, or is something I've already seen 10 years ago. I can't be alone in this.

A more obvious threat than people being put off by AI ubiquity, is that people who were once spending their money on wam scenes are now spending their money on OpenAI. If that's the case, then it's "AI is popular and threatens real producers"

My attitude is still, "show me what it can do."

So far as I can tell, it's still extremely good at...tracing things. Give it existing content and it can come up with some remarkable replicates.

But ask it to create something from scratch and it struggles.

So far as I know, the machines still struggle with "compositionality." Their detail level is incredible, because they've been trained extensively on detail, but they still don't understand what they're creating.

Which is why the physics of pie hits in AI videos, for example, still look so unbelievable even when the before and after are quite good.

Just because something has gotten better doesn't mean other problems it has will magically be solved. We've made some remarkable jumps, but many of the fundamental problems remain. It still struggles with hands, for example. You can get an extremely detailed hand with wrinkles and hair and whatnot, and then you realize there are six fingers, a mistake a human would never make, nor should a computer if it actually understood what it was making.

So, leaving aside the energy demands, environmental concerns, and the fact that most of the AI companies haven't turned a profit and have no idea how to short of a government bailout (Sam Altman floating that in the news lately fwiw), I'm still not convinced it will get better in ways that matter to me.