UMD always tells you how long a scene is overall, on the sales page it shows the length of each file. However, what it can't tell you is the timings within a file where important things happen.

Imagine you have a scene that's 15 minuites long, starts off clothed, but then ends up naked, or topless.

Unless the producer includes a line in the description to tell you when the clothes start to come off, and when full nudity happens, how can you judge value for money? Or is this something that just isn't important to most people?

Candy now includes the timings in her videos, just a single line saying:
Clothes start to come off at X minutes, full nude from Y minutes.

We don't usually do nudity but in the Imperatrix Domina scenes that include stripping, we state in the description how long the actual nude section is, so if that's the bit people are into, they can then decide if the price is worth it for that length of nudity.

But though I've mentioned it to others, no-one else has taken the idea up.

Is it something that would affect your purchase decisions? It does affect mine, if a scene has both a clothed and nude part, and the description doesn't state the timings, I won't buy the scene. Not taking the chance of paying for 15 minutes to then find only 3 is clothed. I'd imagine nude fans would also be annoyed if they paid for 15 minutes but the first 12 minutes were clothed with just a quick flash of nudity right at the end.

UMD's scene edit page does say "no need to mention runtime" but that refers to the overall length of a file, because UMD extracts and shows that itself, as opposed to letting people know when major events within the video happen.

So, a poll.

I'd always appreciate the information before a purchase decision but if the scene was hot enough in the preview pics then it wouldn't be a deal breaker if it wasn't there. I'd say for me the mess timing would be more important than a nude/topless timing. Not all scenes need nudity but all scenes need mess.

I'm not massively into stories, plots or game show elements I'm just here for the mess, so if there was a good chunk of footage before the gunging starts then it'd be nice to know that. You kind get a feel sometimes from the previews and description and the set of the scene how long before things happen too.

Agreed, I wasn't meaning just for the clothed-to-nude scenes but any scene where there is a significant "event" (which might be the end of a clean game and start of the mess, as you say) during a scene. So absolutely, count that kind of thing too.

Not phased in the least as nudity of any sort to me tends to work better within context of what I am watching and isn't as important to me as it would be to say someone who absolutely needs nudity. I'll have elements of nudity from time to time but it is not going to be in every shoot i do.

For instance, in the content I shoot, one match it will be oil but Sondra is wearing a white sheer tank. In another, it was a mud match but Sondra gets her top ripped off in the 3rd round. In our strip muddy catfight, it ends with one wrestler topless and of course, because it is wrestling, the girls slip out of their tops. It's wrestling. There is supposed to be a level of spontaneity in it and I am pretty clear on that.

I would honestly just say if that if it is that pertinent to you, just message the producer and ask. I don't have a problem chatting with my customers and we have some good convos!

I chose a middle of the road approach to the poll and will expand here. I do not "require" nudity of any kind for me to find a scene any more sexy or "hotter" than the one next to it. Sexy can be achieved by simply allowing the model(s) to have fun and enjoy the mess they are making or it can be in the reactions, the clothing the models wear (or lack thereof), etc. However, if nudity is going to be included, I would very much prefer to know how much "bang for my buck" im getting so to speak. Yes, I have purchased videos where I knew there would be a minimal amount of nudity, as that was stated up front. I've also purchased videos where the preview shows a decent amount of nipple or topless photos/video only to find out it was less than expected (2 minutes out of an 18 minute video) and was very disappointed. Conversely, I've purchased videos where nudity is never mentioned and been very pleasantly surprised when the model loses her top to the mess. With all of that said, I have also been very happy with fully clothed WAM as well. If you show me a sexy, attractive model in flattering clothing that actually looks better the wetter or messier she gets, I'm going to be happy. Just tell me up front if she's losing the top or not. It does get a little annoying to see preview pics or videos of a sexy model with a nice figure and beautiful curve in a v-neck, strapless or very low cut top and there's no pay off.

My reply is kinda on the line with the original thread topic but more so a reply to Nostalgias comment.

I'm normally all for the skin ASAP (although I prefer the performers starting off clothed) but watching Nostalgia Erotica's videos I've learned that I'm a huge fan of the more organic(?) loss of clothing. Of course I'm totally referring to nudity in female wrestling/catfights. I think it's hotter to see the clothes slide off because the action of the match is so intense. I also love what NE did in the Cora vs Sondra mud match when it seemed like the one girl removed the others top as an attempt to "humiliate" her opponent and serve up some revenge for being defeated in their last match. I also like when a girl removes her own top or her opponents to use as a weapon (hint,hint to Nostalgia Erotica for a future match )

I also voted: "doesn't bother me at all"

I voted "not bothered" but I think if you are able to provide this information it's only going to be helpful for someone.

In these increasingly competitive days this additional transparency gives you an edge - and might encourage more vague and slovenly producers to follow suit. But you are possibly making a lot of unnecessary extra work for yourself.

I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who will find one excuse or another not to buy anything at all

I voted not bothered, I do ideally want to see the clothes get messy and ruined... but as long as I can see that does indeed happen from the thumbnails and description then it's all good and I don't mind how long or short that particular section is. If there's a decent selection of thumbnails of the clothed part then it at least hasn't happened in too short a time frame.

I don't mind including the timings in my descriptions though, especially now I'm used to doing it as part of my upload/package video routine.

Having said that, I do have adhd and may still sometimes forget, so if anyone is ever not sure on something (not just timings, if I've missed anything from the description) then feel free to message and ask

Bruh! I am freaking honored! Thank you! It is seriously a humbling and affirming experience as a producer to hear a testimony like this and see that a vision you have not only is completed but people truly enjoy it. Thank you!

Do you include whether there is nakedness or not in your descriptions, or just let the preview photos indicate? I guess wrestling wasn't really something I was thinking about, as with a few exceptions it's usually done in skimpy outfits anyway (so not enough clothes for me), but I can see that when all the performers are wearing in the first place are bikinis, it's fairly natural that tops, and perhaps bottoms, will end up coming off in the bout. But if it does start in skimpy outfits and ends topless or nude, might knowing how much of which is included be useful to some potential purchasers, or is that too "mechanical" a way of looking at it?

I know asking a producer is always an option but to me that seems like pestering and almost carries an obligation to buy. A former producer used to do gameshow scenes where only one of two girls would get messy and you didn't know which unless you bought it. They would say in private if you asked but I really hate hassling people, but wasn't going to take the chance that the the girl in the outfit I didn't like was the one who ended up messy, and then feel I was being a troll for taking up time asking. So I just never bought any of those scenes.


You've nailed what I'm getting at, from the other end, so thank you. Likewise I'm concerned about bang for buck, but in my case all interest ceases the instant the girls get naked, I'm only interested in fully clothed wam. So if a scene is 18 minutes (and priced accordintly) but only the first 3 minutes are clothed, and/or it's obvious the models can't wait to get their clothes off, then that scene isn't for me - but if the previews or description make it appear the clothed section is a significant part of it...

I see your point about making it look like a scene is sexier (by whatever definition) than it really is. Misleading marketing is banned by the ToS bit there's a fairly blurred line between "deliberately misleading" and just "the producer isn't very good at writing descriptions", or "was mislead themselves." I've seen scenes offering "latex" where if you look at the previews it's fairly obviously that "wetlook fabric" that's all over eBay, often mislabelled as "latex, leather, pvc". So someone who doesn't know much about womenswear or fetish fashion buys a "latex" catsuit on-line, and then markets it as "latex" because that's what the person who sold it to them called it, and they don't actually realise that real latex is rubber, not cloth. And then wonders why it doesn't sell.


That's fair enough re wrestling, makes sense, as you say, a more organic process.


I don't see how it'd be work? While writing description, play video, skip through to point where clothes start to come off, note time. Skip through till full nudity starts, note that time. Add a single line into the description that says "Clothes start to come off X minutes, full nude from Y minutes." Should take less than a minute to do?


LOL! True.


I do really appreciate that you took the suggestion on board, it makes a big difference to me when deciding what to buy, though current belt-tightening means I've really reduced my purchases of WAM, along with everything else, at the moment. There are a few scenes by other producers out there that I would consider buying if I knew the times, but absolutely won't without that information. But before I start chasing every producer of clothed-to-nude to include it, it occured to me to check if it's actually something anyone else is bothered about, or am I the only one. TBH from the poll so far it does seem I'm in the minority, as the two "not bothered" options are way ahead of the "bothered" one.

Thanks to everyone who's voted so far, please keep them coming and keep commenting, very interesting to get other people's perspectives, as usual it's a much wider field of views than I'd initially imagined. Appreciate comments from other producers too, good to have included.

Well...not ALL our matches are in bikinis and swimsuits (At least I don't intend them to be). See attached photo

As for deets...I drop hints or clues of what can be expected. I don't say outright whether there is nudity or topless (Unless it is for a custom) but will rather say something along the lines of "Cora uses every dirty trick from hair pulling to ripping off tops" and I don't mention how or when. The anticipation and build up to that moment is every bit as important to me as the moment itself, in my opinion. Very much like any show at the Tropicana or Oskos, you knew it was gonna happen that night, it was just a matter of when and who

There are also varying reasons behind this from a models boundaries or limitations or I am just feeling like being more creative and letting the action itself be the focus of what we are doing that day. Other times, I will let the wrestlers have creative licensing to take the ball and run with it, such as our clothed muddy catfight with Calisa and Bella Luxx and it goes topless just because that is the direction it went.

As for asking questions, I kinda knew going in that is what I signed up for. People are gonna contact me, ask questions and that (To me anyways) is just part of the job of owning any business. I worked retail for years before opening up my own business so none of this is new to me. As long as they are not trying to monopolize my time, and I have the time to spare, I'll answer questions so longs as they're respectful. I also don't typically think because I answer a valid question that it places any obligation to buy. I'm happy to answer them! Again, I worked retail and not everything you offer is going out the door and you're gonna get a "No" from time to time and that's ok. This is art we are talking about. Not everyone is gonna feel what you're doing creatively.

It doesn't really bother me but now that you mention I guess providing that info wouldn't hurt. More important to me is a good selection of preview pics, or at the very least a solid description of what the video includes. I'm far more likely to buy a video if I know what I'm getting in for.

More information is always better than less.

I don't really care for timings, but I do care for a brief overview of what happens so that way I know if the video will press my buttons or not. For example, if I know the model will stay fully clothed the whole time, I know it won't push the right buttons for me and so I won't buy it

Interesting, though can't really make out the outfits. But if you ever do a scene with girls in say yoga pants and crop-top sports bras, and they get properly messy before anything comes off, that would appeal to me.


Fair enough, and I guess the wrestling business is somewhat different to more scripted messy scenes or even game shows. And absolutely re model boundaries.


Likewise, I have no problem answering questions, contact from people is fun. But there's a whole British culture thing of "never make a fuss", so *asking* questions is a bit of a no-no, a cultural faux-pas, easier and politer just to pass by, no questions, and hence also no purchase, than to bother someone with enquiries. Hence I like to provide as much information as possible, both in preview pics and scene description, so I don't inadvertantly lose sales to people who might have had a question but held back from asking. I think in the US you have a much more customer service oriented culture where asking and answering is far more part of the deal. It's noticable that when US servers say "have a nice day" they really mean it, where as anyone saying that over here would be assumed to really be thinking "go die in a fire."



I think you're both more or less coming from the same place I am, there's no such animal as too much information.


I guess other than the two nude and one topless scene we have in Imperatrix Domina you'd not like our scenes then. However agree totally such info should be made clear. All our previews always include at least one "from the end of the scene" shot, so people can see exactly how messy (and still fully clothed) the girls are.

I've always believed previews should show details of the clean models, some samples of what happens to them, and a final "totally messy" one. Means people who care about head and hair coverage, of whether the models ended up barefoot, or various other details, can tell that their hot button is included. And back in the context of this poll, we have one scene where the girls start off clothed, strip each other completely naked, putting their clothes in buckets, then while naked they play a game where the winner each round gets to add mess to the other girl's clothes buckets, and then at the end they have to put their totally messy clothes back on. In the description, we give details of exactly how long they spend naked, so people can see they're getting good value for money on the nude part.

The scene is here: https://umd.net/download_info/the-naked-buckets-game
45 minutes total runtime of the messy part, 30 of which are naked, and it tells people that in the "Technical" part of the description.

We are gonna be doing it all in the end. Nothing is "off limits" as far as attire or scenarios are concerned. One idea is a shoot interview with a wrestler and another wrestler comes out to interrupt and it devolves into a muddy catfight/mud match. Another is a clothed shower catfight. The list goes on. If there is a button, I can promise you that I WILL be pushing it



It should be different. Unfortunately for most it really isn't which is why I felt compelled to create content. With the exception of GLAM (Love ya guys!), there really isn't too many folks out there doing messy wrestling as it really should be done IMO and I get why. It takes a lot of hard work, commitment and if you have not lugged 100 gallons of clay up and down the stairs, I can promise you that you will be hurting the next day. Luckily, I keep myself in shape...for now. Doing this shit at 45 years old, you begin to ask yourself questions



LOL Fair. I know culturally there are differences on how sales are done globally. For instance, I've met cultures where haggling is just part of the process and not an attempt to insult the seller (Although we may misconstrue it as being "rude", "cheap" or "tire kicker" in the States). I find it fascinating, to be honest. I have a strong background in Customer resolutions so I was dealing with bullshit mistakes from sales reps and failed expectations since 2000 so to be honest, the questions I get involving NE/FFW is a vacation

Oops, almost forgot to respond.

Result is fairly conclusive, only 10% of us will not buy a video because internal timings aren't included. Thanks to all who voted! Always interesting to get other people's actual thoughts as opposed to just guesses and vague feelings.