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"The second wave of the virus."
Are we going to call it Pandemic 2: Pandemic Harder, or Pandemic 2: Corona Boogaloo ?
Oh Janet! You look so funny!!!
Yeah, so PA just finished "reopening". There is a "mall" (I use the term loosely because it's about 70% devoid of stores) 5 minutes from my house. It has been mostly empty for the past 3 years. It has a small chain department store, a Kohl's, and a Dick's Sporting Goods but is otherwise mostly empty. I drove past yesterday and it place had more cars than last Christmas. 
Also, my vote is for "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
We are so fucking boned...
Also, my vote is for "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
We are so fucking boned...
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Hollywood comes up with the best titles. We have seen these movies before...there are numerous films made in the past that have predicted these things. Start with watching the classic 1965 film with George Maharis called "The Satan Bug", followed by the 1971 film "The Andromeda Strain". There are numerous other films made more recently that apply....e.g. "28 Days" and "28 Days Later". As to what can happen if society breaks down, just watch the "Mad Max" movies or any movie in the "Zombie Apocalypse" genre..
They already remade The Andromeda Strain several years ago as a tv miniseries, so I guess the next wave would need to be called "Andromeda 2021". Due to the Covid shutdown in Hollywood film production for the upcoming film "Fauci and Cuomo's Excellent Adventure" has been suspended.
They already remade The Andromeda Strain several years ago as a tv miniseries, so I guess the next wave would need to be called "Andromeda 2021". Due to the Covid shutdown in Hollywood film production for the upcoming film "Fauci and Cuomo's Excellent Adventure" has been suspended.
Do unto others, then run
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
I think the writers will go for a nice simple title, but with an awesome tagline:
Pandemic 2: Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the shopping malls...
I mean people keep saying the writers of 2020 have jumped the megalodon, but the goods just keep on delivering, and now they've added "potential nuclear war between India and China" to a plot arc that has already encompassed fire, flood, pestilence, plagues of locusts, and feral hogs on a cocaine bender. Oh yes and the Mayan Apocalypse date in 2012 being a mistake, it's actually Midsummer's Eve 2020 - at the end of next week.
Pandemic 2: Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the shopping malls...
I mean people keep saying the writers of 2020 have jumped the megalodon, but the goods just keep on delivering, and now they've added "potential nuclear war between India and China" to a plot arc that has already encompassed fire, flood, pestilence, plagues of locusts, and feral hogs on a cocaine bender. Oh yes and the Mayan Apocalypse date in 2012 being a mistake, it's actually Midsummer's Eve 2020 - at the end of next week.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RtWxhPoEiA
Here is some serious insight into why they shut the world down. The shadow banking system collapsed. What is known as the repo market with transactions of trillions a day, thought of as the plumbing of the financial system.
Here is some serious insight into why they shut the world down. The shadow banking system collapsed. What is known as the repo market with transactions of trillions a day, thought of as the plumbing of the financial system.
consciousness
they started printing more money like crazy causing inflation. The select few in the know made tons on this. This fiat system is a sham. We need to go back to Gold Backed Dollars and Canadian pesos.
So if you understand how the Fedral reserve works and I will post this vid explaining the Repo market. You can see its money moving around passing hands at interest making more debt and inflation. Look at Australia right now. A dollar doesnt get you much, their hydro rates are insane. Venezuela is in riots because people cant even buy food because of this system.
For the average person investing in some crypto might be a good idea. Etherium is a good choice and maybe some others but you must consider the consumer value. Like is this product useful. Etherium is becoming preferred over BitCoin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9UIumKX7Mw
So if you understand how the Fedral reserve works and I will post this vid explaining the Repo market. You can see its money moving around passing hands at interest making more debt and inflation. Look at Australia right now. A dollar doesnt get you much, their hydro rates are insane. Venezuela is in riots because people cant even buy food because of this system.
For the average person investing in some crypto might be a good idea. Etherium is a good choice and maybe some others but you must consider the consumer value. Like is this product useful. Etherium is becoming preferred over BitCoin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9UIumKX7Mw
consciousness
I'm going with "Lockdown II: The Wrath of Cough."
But seriously:
After weeks in the single digits, we're case-free here going on 2 weeks - and that's not the bullshit "we're case free because we just stopped testing" scenario, it's legit out of the region.
We didn't just ignore it, we didn't trust Jesus to fix it, we didn't blame the illuminati, we didn't sacrifice people for some bullshit argument to save the economy, and we listened to the scientists (who now have the chance to study the thing - it's aerosol spread).
Here's what worked.
-Wash your hands.
-Don't listen to crazy.
-Keep your distance.
-Wear a mask [a.k.a. Joe Rogan is an idiot.]
But seriously:
After weeks in the single digits, we're case-free here going on 2 weeks - and that's not the bullshit "we're case free because we just stopped testing" scenario, it's legit out of the region.
We didn't just ignore it, we didn't trust Jesus to fix it, we didn't blame the illuminati, we didn't sacrifice people for some bullshit argument to save the economy, and we listened to the scientists (who now have the chance to study the thing - it's aerosol spread).
Here's what worked.
-Wash your hands.
-Don't listen to crazy.
-Keep your distance.
-Wear a mask [a.k.a. Joe Rogan is an idiot.]
And...almost got into a fist fight with some redneck asshole who brought his entire family to a supermarket and none of them were wearing masks because...SURPRISE! Just like we thought, morons think "green" means everything is back to normal.
What pissed me off the most was that NO ONE else said anything; not the store managers I flagged down, or even other people that this family got uncomfortably close to. But you could all see how people looked at them and their concerned "Marge Simpson faces". Even after I confronted them and they yelled rather nasty things at me in front of small children, no one said or did a god dammed thing.
I'm done, I kinda hope it kills us all. We don't deserve the planet. We can't even be conscientious about each other. It can all fucking burn.
What pissed me off the most was that NO ONE else said anything; not the store managers I flagged down, or even other people that this family got uncomfortably close to. But you could all see how people looked at them and their concerned "Marge Simpson faces". Even after I confronted them and they yelled rather nasty things at me in front of small children, no one said or did a god dammed thing.
I'm done, I kinda hope it kills us all. We don't deserve the planet. We can't even be conscientious about each other. It can all fucking burn.
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Potatoman-J said: And...almost got into a fist fight with some redneck asshole who brought his entire family to a supermarket and none of them were wearing masks because...SURPRISE! Just like we thought, morons think "green" means everything is back to normal.
What pissed me off the most was that NO ONE else said anything; not the store managers I flagged down, or even other people that this family got uncomfortably close to. But you could all see how people looked at them and their concerned "Marge Simpson faces". Even after I confronted them and they yelled rather nasty things at me in front of small children, no one said or did a god dammed thing.
I'm done, I kinda hope it kills us all. We don't deserve the planet. We can't even be conscientious about each other. It can all fucking burn.
What pissed me off the most was that NO ONE else said anything; not the store managers I flagged down, or even other people that this family got uncomfortably close to. But you could all see how people looked at them and their concerned "Marge Simpson faces". Even after I confronted them and they yelled rather nasty things at me in front of small children, no one said or did a god dammed thing.
I'm done, I kinda hope it kills us all. We don't deserve the planet. We can't even be conscientious about each other. It can all fucking burn.
Not defending this family, because everyone should social distance (why not?), but you do realize the mortality rate of this virus is basically a flu-level, maybe double that, and really only people who are immune-compromised have anything to really worry about.
Enigmahood said: Not defending this family, because everyone should social distance (why not?), but you do realize the mortality rate of this virus is basically a flu-level, maybe double that, and really only people who are immune-compromised have anything to really worry about.
The CDC publish info about the number of deaths from flu each year (in the USA):
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
Their preliminary estimates are 61,000 for 2017/2018 and 34,157 for 2018/2019.
Here's the "COVID-19 Dashboard by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)":
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
According to that, there have been 121,119 deaths in the USA (so far). So, that's double the flu estimate from 2 years ago and triple the estimate from last year.
Here's an article from Full Fact, which includes info about the UK:
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/
"Public Health England estimates that on average 17,000 people have died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19. However, the yearly deaths vary widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19."
Going back to the COVID-19 dashboard, there have been 43,011 deaths in the UK so far. So, that's more than double the average, and 25 times last year's death count!
Also, there are more options than just "death" and "complete recovery". Here's an article from the BBC, talking about the risk of permanent lung damage:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53065340
So, I think everyone should be worried about this, even if you're not immuno-compromised.
Enigmahood said:
Not defending this family, because everyone should social distance (why not?), but you do realize the mortality rate of this virus is basically a flu-level, maybe double that, and really only people who are immune-compromised have anything to really worry about.
Not defending this family, because everyone should social distance (why not?), but you do realize the mortality rate of this virus is basically a flu-level, maybe double that, and really only people who are immune-compromised have anything to really worry about.
Except that's not the case. I actually work with the virus every day. There literally isn't a single day I'm not sending oxygen equipment to hospitals. There have been people with no significant medical history who were young and otherwise healthy who have died, and old people who barely got sick.
The problem isn't JUST the mortality rate, the problem is the infection rate (which is only down because people have stayed home etc). The "flu" is several viruses, most of which have vaccines, and can additionally be treated with anti-virals. Covid-19 on the other hand is a single virus (with no known recorded mutations yet) that has NO vaccine or treatment. There is no defense against it and no drugs that have actually worked (in clinicial testing, rather than anecdotal snake oils) to stymie it's effect on the body. You're of course free to personally down as much hydroxychloroquine as you see fit.
Another issue is "reported" deaths do not equal "counted" deaths. https://www.contagionlive.com/news/why-comparing-flu-covid-19-severity-not-equivalent
https://www.sciencealert.com/the-us-death-rate-for-covid-19-is-50-times-higher-than-the-flu
The point of the severity of my post is this. Wearing a mask doesn't have any draw backs, where as NOT wearing one simply put does. It puts not just you, but other people at risk. If you want to make the straw man argument about people that have trouble breathing with one on; I would argue, you only need to so in public. I would also argue they should contact their doctors about inhalers, nebulizer, or POC (portable oxygen concentrators) or other treatment as they have bigger problems than a mask. I have moderate asthma myself. But in an air conditioned store breathing isn't really that hard with a mask.
So just wear the mask, or make one of a myriad of other arrangements. Get your groceries delivered, send someone else to the store, meals on wheels, etc. There are exactly ZERO arguable reasons not to when the alternative is full of unknowns and as of yet unquantifiable variables that could cost someone their life or even their health.
This guy though was clearly about "muh freedom". And the thing with "liberty" is we are ALL entitled to it. And when one person's freedom comes into direct conflict with another's both cannot coexist. There is a conflict and therefore a hierarchy. It COULD be resolved through compromise, but it wasn't. For instance this guy's dominant posture towards his right to "pursuit of happiness" creates a possible conflicting scenario against someone else's right to "life".
My vitriol comes from the fact that aside from myself, the rest of the flock of submissive sheep while on some level understands this, did NOTHING to stand up for themselves.
And when I called this inconsiderate individual out, he responded like a cornered animal, not like a civilized human being. And if you want to behave like an animal, don't complain about human rights.
::end rant::
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Yeah, no, but young healthy people are almost never being hit hard by this.
Mortality rate 0.25%
Originally, this was sold as 3-6% and we all freaked out. Everyone shut in. Economy tanked. We had to flatten the curve.
You lost me when one week some Governor is screaming at people losing their small businesses that they were insane and killing grandmother for wanting to open or protesting -- then the next was happily smiling shoulder to shoulder with a crowd of hundreds of protestors.
Yeah, fuck racism and I'm all for peaceful protests, but don't tell me it's more important than people's lives and businesses they've sunk everything into.
If anyone here who is now harping about how deadly and dangerous this virus is was also doing that about the #BLM stuff, more power to you, I may not agree but at least you're consistent. If anyone here is talking about how dangerous about it but has no posts about this during the protests then, with all due respect, I could give two fucks about what you think about it now.
0.25% mortality rate. Not worth shutting everything down.
If you're sick or symptomatic, get tested and/or stay home or even get a motel if you have non-sick family. Be smart. No harm in keeping 6' away from people or not shaking hands. Otherwise, get outdoors, get some healthy sun, Go To Work and live your lives.
If you get this, the overwhelming odds are you will be absolutely fine.
Mortality rate 0.25%
Originally, this was sold as 3-6% and we all freaked out. Everyone shut in. Economy tanked. We had to flatten the curve.
You lost me when one week some Governor is screaming at people losing their small businesses that they were insane and killing grandmother for wanting to open or protesting -- then the next was happily smiling shoulder to shoulder with a crowd of hundreds of protestors.
Yeah, fuck racism and I'm all for peaceful protests, but don't tell me it's more important than people's lives and businesses they've sunk everything into.
If anyone here who is now harping about how deadly and dangerous this virus is was also doing that about the #BLM stuff, more power to you, I may not agree but at least you're consistent. If anyone here is talking about how dangerous about it but has no posts about this during the protests then, with all due respect, I could give two fucks about what you think about it now.
0.25% mortality rate. Not worth shutting everything down.
If you're sick or symptomatic, get tested and/or stay home or even get a motel if you have non-sick family. Be smart. No harm in keeping 6' away from people or not shaking hands. Otherwise, get outdoors, get some healthy sun, Go To Work and live your lives.
If you get this, the overwhelming odds are you will be absolutely fine.
Enigmahood said: Yeah, no, but young healthy people are almost never being hit hard by this.
Mortality rate 0.25%
Mortality rate 0.25%
So fuck everyone else?
What is 0.25% of 328 Million (the population of the United States, or 0.25% of 7.8 billion people (the population of the world)
820000 People in the Unites States.
18500000 People in the world.
That 2.5% mortality rate isn't a 100% fact, we don't know how many people will die from it without proper testing of the population, testing is REALLY important to understand and contain the virus.
It is like a lottery, if you catch it, you really just don't know how bad it's going to be.
It could be you, or your loved ones who die.
Do you think all the governments around the world panicked for nothing?
Part of me thinks its far worse than they are letting on, to prevent mass panic, I hope not?
Another under reported COVID thing is long term COVID.
People who have caught the virus and have had the symptoms for months, is this a life-long thing they now have? Even if you don't die from it, it can keep you down for life?
This virus is nasty, how bad would it have been without the lockdowns, I guess we're about to find out?
I agree, the protests weren't well timed, but people had a lot of time on their hands and felt things needed to change, because they did, they have needed to change for a long time.
Both past Democrat and Republican governments have contributed to this, but at the moment, one side is talking about bringing change, whilst the other is attacking protesters both physically and verbally, even dragging out the word Antifa to brand them as, so they don't have to call them ethnic minority rights protesters, because that would look bad.
But the results are in, there has been no significant rise in cases due to the protests, this is mainly due to them being outside and most people wearing masks.
"COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
luvs2pie said: "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
This is what Black Lives Matter is all about.
There is no way whatsoever that PotatomanJ would ever intend to say or publicise a racist label.
Many whites like myself like to think of ourselves as not being part of the problem. But I'm sure that I myself have said things that are insensitive or accidentally used terms or phrases that are racist or promoting racist stereotypes. Many of us are ignorant to it.
It's about educating us ALL to not be a part of the problem and to stand up against racism in our societies, in fact to stand up against any form of prejudice or discrimination.
It's about educating us ALL to not be a part of the problem and to stand up against racism in our societies, in fact to stand up against any form of prejudice or discrimination.
Thank you, I appreciate that a few people have lent their support with this and that there are people who are open to learning about their own biases. Right before Covid really took off in the states I saw a person post a very racist drawing of an asian on fb. I called them out and they got defensive saying my views were the problem, so I looked up the person and found they are a board member of one of our big cities non profit hospitals for lower income people. The city has a huge asian population. Unfortunately I've seen a similar picture on umd, but messmaster removed it once I reported it.
leonmoomin said:
So fuck everyone else?
What is 0.25% of 328 Million (the population of the United States, or 0.25% of 7.8 billion people (the population of the world)
820000 People in the Unites States.
18500000 People in the world.
That 2.5% mortality rate isn't a 100% fact, we don't know how many people will die from it without proper testing of the population, testing is REALLY important to understand and contain the virus.
It is like a lottery, if you catch it, you really just don't know how bad it's going to be.
It could be you, or your loved ones who die.
Do you think all the governments around the world panicked for nothing?
Part of me thinks its far worse than they are letting on, to prevent mass panic, I hope not?
Another under reported COVID thing is long term COVID.
People who have caught the virus and have had the symptoms for months, is this a life-long thing they now have? Even if you don't die from it, it can keep you down for life?
This virus is nasty, how bad would it have been without the lockdowns, I guess we're about to find out?
I agree, the protests weren't well timed, but people had a lot of time on their hands and felt things needed to change, because they did, they have needed to change for a long time.
Both past Democrat and Republican governments have contributed to this, but at the moment, one side is talking about bringing change, whilst the other is attacking protesters both physically and verbally, even dragging out the word Antifa to brand them as, so they don't have to call them ethnic minority rights protesters, because that would look bad.
But the results are in, there has been no significant rise in cases due to the protests, this is mainly due to them being outside and most people wearing masks.
Enigmahood said: Yeah, no, but young healthy people are almost never being hit hard by this.
Mortality rate 0.25%
Mortality rate 0.25%
So fuck everyone else?
What is 0.25% of 328 Million (the population of the United States, or 0.25% of 7.8 billion people (the population of the world)
820000 People in the Unites States.
18500000 People in the world.
That 2.5% mortality rate isn't a 100% fact, we don't know how many people will die from it without proper testing of the population, testing is REALLY important to understand and contain the virus.
It is like a lottery, if you catch it, you really just don't know how bad it's going to be.
It could be you, or your loved ones who die.
Do you think all the governments around the world panicked for nothing?
Part of me thinks its far worse than they are letting on, to prevent mass panic, I hope not?
Another under reported COVID thing is long term COVID.
People who have caught the virus and have had the symptoms for months, is this a life-long thing they now have? Even if you don't die from it, it can keep you down for life?
This virus is nasty, how bad would it have been without the lockdowns, I guess we're about to find out?
I agree, the protests weren't well timed, but people had a lot of time on their hands and felt things needed to change, because they did, they have needed to change for a long time.
Both past Democrat and Republican governments have contributed to this, but at the moment, one side is talking about bringing change, whilst the other is attacking protesters both physically and verbally, even dragging out the word Antifa to brand them as, so they don't have to call them ethnic minority rights protesters, because that would look bad.
But the results are in, there has been no significant rise in cases due to the protests, this is mainly due to them being outside and most people wearing masks.
That's a silly way of looking at it.
Again, it's roughly double the average flu, if the CDC's current estimate of 0.25% is right. Yes, I guess if 100% of the population were all exposed to the flu, that would be horrible and a lot of people would die from that (about 1/2 as many as we'd get from Covid).
We never look at the flu and hypothesize that potentially 300,000 people will die from it, because it's absurd. 100% of the population won't get it, we all know this... yet, that's the numbers you use, with 100% of the population getting COVID.
Still, to suggest we might be dealing with 800,000 dead over this is as ridiculous as thinking the upcoming flu season is going to leave 300,000+ dead. It won't happen. Even if this spreads like wildfire, nobody social distances, masks, everyone goes out of their way to get exposed - herd immunity kicks in around with 60% of the population, so it's still far less.
Now, there are some lessons to be learned from all this:
1. Do not take frail elderly people and shove them in a tight community surrounded by highly contagious sick people, whether it's the novel COVID, flu or anything else. Once you take New York's failure out of the equation, the death rate is far less. Still not a joke or anything, but just saying it's not what we were initially seeing and freaking out over. New York fucked up. Now, with the rest of the country basically being hit, we're still not seeing the same # of people dying daily. New York was worse than the rest of the country combined in a way.
2. I'm perfectly fine with masking, social distancing and things of that nature.
All the long-term stuff, yeah a point is to be made there but as we're learning more, there is a reason Doctor's aren't rushing to use ventilators anymore. Guess someone's lungs that have been ravaged and weakened by this disease, which it does, shouldn't have highly pressurized airflow. Go figure.
I understated it I suppose when i said it's basically a flu maybe double, no question it's at least double, but it's absolutely not this thing it was initially made out to be and the rest of the country, provided they don't completely do stupid things like New York, so far they're getting through this much, much better.
So, there has been 10 Million confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the world and so far 500,000 confirmed deaths, by my maths, that is a higher death rate percentage than 0.25%.
I make that a 5% death rate.
Again, testing is key, how many more people have had it and not been confirmed???
What are the demographics of those who've died?
Not to mention, how many more people will die if the health services can't cope?
If people struggle to get treatment many more will die, which I think has been the point of lockdowns.
I make that a 5% death rate.
Again, testing is key, how many more people have had it and not been confirmed???
What are the demographics of those who've died?
Not to mention, how many more people will die if the health services can't cope?
If people struggle to get treatment many more will die, which I think has been the point of lockdowns.
leonmoomin said: So, there has been 10 Million confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the world and so far 500,000 confirmed deaths, by my maths, that is a higher death rate percentage than 0.25%.
I make that a 5% death rate.
Again, testing is key, how many more people have had it and not been confirmed???
What are the demographics of those who've died?
Not to mention, how many more people will die if the health services can't cope?
If people struggle to get treatment many more will die, which I think has been the point of lockdowns.
I make that a 5% death rate.
Again, testing is key, how many more people have had it and not been confirmed???
What are the demographics of those who've died?
Not to mention, how many more people will die if the health services can't cope?
If people struggle to get treatment many more will die, which I think has been the point of lockdowns.
I'm going based on what the CDC has stated, which is not 5% and is actually 0.25%. I'm not entirely sure what mathmatics they used to get there but right now they're the experts so until they say otherwise, that's 1 in 400 elderly and/or sickly who unfortunately succumb to this, not 1 out of 20.
I do agree with you, there probably have been a lot of people who've had this, didn't know, thought it was allergies, did not get tested and just got over it. I won't speculate how many, perhaps the CDC did and that's where they got their figures from.
More people having had it and recovering and not dying, that would make it less lethal, not more.
Attached is a picture of the CDC's figures for deaths, which clearly show the people dying are not young, healthy types. Really, it doesn't even begin to register until someone is in their 40s and my guess, someone who wasn't particularly healthy.
Underlying health issues are a major factor here, so anyone healthy is almost assuredly going to be fine. A counter to that is that in the USA there are a lot of obese and sickly people, something like 60% of the country, so for a lot of people it has more potential to do harm. People should lighten up on the excess carbs and sugars, now more than ever.
More will certainly be in harm's way if health services can't cope. While ventilators might be trash and do more harm than good, a lot of people who are elderly and/or sick might require help from doctors.
So far, outside of completely incompetent areas like NYC, in the USA we're doing fine. Let's hope it stays that way. This is already killing people at about double the rate of a typical flu, it could be more than a double flu if people get sick and can't get access to medical treatment, plus all the people who aren't dying of covid who can't get access to it with clogged up hospitals.
That is surely a factor to consider, much like we should also consider the high cost of shutting down many businesses and telling people to stay indoors. Suicides are up, children are being abused by frustrated parents at a higher rate, depression is higher and all that. The economy is also being hit and that's yet another factor to consider.
Fortunately, wearing a mask and staying 6' away from people does not seem to correlate with higher rates of depression, suicide or child abuse, so that might be something that makes the most sense to deal with this virus that has roughly double the mortality rate of the average flu according to the CDC.
 Love you, too |
There are several sites/reports that I would highly recommend for better understanding of the situation.
Fantastic explanations and interactive models where you can vary the parameters and see the effect:
https://ncase.me/covid-19 (Sorry can't make this one clickable for some reason - you'll have to wipe over and copy/paste into URL bar)
From a professor at Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, who's had it and writes about the long-term effects: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/05/19/paul-garner-covid-19-and-fatigue-a-game-of-snakes-and-ladders/ and
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/06/23/paul-garner-covid-19-at-14-weeks-phantom-speed-cameras-unknown-limits-and-harsh-penalties/
While *most* young people aren't so badly affected, that's really not the point. Without any measures, the R value is around 3. One infected person then infects another 3. Those 3 each infect another 3 etc. In 30 days, that one infected youngster has gone on to cause infection in 1000 people. They have no control over how old or ill those people are. That one infected young person will have unwittingly resulted in the deaths of around 10 people during that month after they picked it up themselves.
Comparisons with 'flu are dangerous - it's absolutely not the same at all. 'Flu has vaccines available, has a much lower R-value and a much lower mortality rate. If you do get it, you either make a full recovery quite quickly (vast majority) or they bury you (tiny minority).
I know a student also in this situation of having been in and out of hospital with it for 14 weeks now - early-20s, perfectly fit and healthy beforehand. It may not *kill* younger people but it can have a lifelong effect. There is increasing evidence of permanent lung damage in those who have recovered (i.e. not died). THOSE figures aren't getting reported but make it more dangerous than many people realise and to a much greater proportion of the population.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53065340
Finally, Dr John Campbell's daily vodcasts are excellent. He explains things fantastically well. Hardly surprising - he spent his working life lecturing and working in A&E ('ER' in the USA) and wrote various books that are used as standard texts for students doing their healthcare degrees here in the UK.
I suspect that anyone who thinks that the US is doing OK may well find they revise their opinion when they've watched the peer-reviewed facts and the statistics that this chap manages to dig out on a daily basis. (Incidentally, we've been pretty terrible in the UK too - far too late into it and chaotic ever since - even before the ludicrous issue of Cummings claiming he drove 260 miles for 'childcare' and then 30 miles 'to test his eyesight'! Pah!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdYYGQXXn8
JC certainly knows his medicine but his geography is a bit rough: "Where is D.C.?" LoL!
Fantastic explanations and interactive models where you can vary the parameters and see the effect:
https://ncase.me/covid-19 (Sorry can't make this one clickable for some reason - you'll have to wipe over and copy/paste into URL bar)
From a professor at Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, who's had it and writes about the long-term effects: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/05/19/paul-garner-covid-19-and-fatigue-a-game-of-snakes-and-ladders/ and
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/06/23/paul-garner-covid-19-at-14-weeks-phantom-speed-cameras-unknown-limits-and-harsh-penalties/
While *most* young people aren't so badly affected, that's really not the point. Without any measures, the R value is around 3. One infected person then infects another 3. Those 3 each infect another 3 etc. In 30 days, that one infected youngster has gone on to cause infection in 1000 people. They have no control over how old or ill those people are. That one infected young person will have unwittingly resulted in the deaths of around 10 people during that month after they picked it up themselves.
Comparisons with 'flu are dangerous - it's absolutely not the same at all. 'Flu has vaccines available, has a much lower R-value and a much lower mortality rate. If you do get it, you either make a full recovery quite quickly (vast majority) or they bury you (tiny minority).
I know a student also in this situation of having been in and out of hospital with it for 14 weeks now - early-20s, perfectly fit and healthy beforehand. It may not *kill* younger people but it can have a lifelong effect. There is increasing evidence of permanent lung damage in those who have recovered (i.e. not died). THOSE figures aren't getting reported but make it more dangerous than many people realise and to a much greater proportion of the population.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53065340
Finally, Dr John Campbell's daily vodcasts are excellent. He explains things fantastically well. Hardly surprising - he spent his working life lecturing and working in A&E ('ER' in the USA) and wrote various books that are used as standard texts for students doing their healthcare degrees here in the UK.
I suspect that anyone who thinks that the US is doing OK may well find they revise their opinion when they've watched the peer-reviewed facts and the statistics that this chap manages to dig out on a daily basis. (Incidentally, we've been pretty terrible in the UK too - far too late into it and chaotic ever since - even before the ludicrous issue of Cummings claiming he drove 260 miles for 'childcare' and then 30 miles 'to test his eyesight'! Pah!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdYYGQXXn8
JC certainly knows his medicine but his geography is a bit rough: "Where is D.C.?" LoL!
luvs2pie said: "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
So this comment really is upsetting to me as an asian. The world is going through an epidemic, and there are people who have decided racially Asians are all carriers and there for are attacking them. Trump refers to the virus as Kung fu and this comment while I know does not have the same context that president is using, ie create fear and divide, it does tie into the issue of Asians being targeted and blamed for this virus.
I know it's just a play on word here but the reality is Asians and especially those in the medical fields who wear work uniforms have been attacked by ignorant people and I would hope this community would be willing to help decrease this type of thinking.
So, I had to take some time to reflect on this before I wrote a knee jerk reaction to it. I saw your PM originally and tried to edit my post without taking the entire thing down but wasn't able to. So instead I actually "reported" my own post.
Let me start by saying I'm sad that this affected you this way. I'm more sad (and even more confused) that this phrase is some how inextricably linked to violence against Asians. I know the bad orange man has said it, but I originally found it in memes along with people planting toilet paper rolls.
I think that you posting your response in the forum is more meaningful than just asking me to delete a post that you didn't like or found offensive. Your experience is just as important as mine, or anyone else's here. I think it's important that people openly say what is on their mind without fear of reprisal. Communication and understanding are the most important tools we have to grow.
That said: after reflecting on this, I'm not sad about the actual words I used though as my intent was something completely different. As the old saying goes "Context is king"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8 (Disclaimer: contains language people probably won't like). And there are good reasons why a lot of those words carry the weight they carry. It comes from long periods of time where the words were used with the explicit purpose of a racist, classist, sexist, somethingist, slant. They words were meant to be defamatory, derogatory, and sometimes outright malicious.
Initially I thought this phrase rather funny and witty because of the play on words. Kung Fu (or more correctly said gung or gong fu) means "hard work" or "effort" and technically has nothing to do with martial arts (wushu). I thought it the purest of irony that since COVID is similar to a flu in many of it's symptoms this makes it appear to sound like it's a "hard flu". Now combine that with the pop culture often misused word "kung fu" which indicates China where patient zero was determined, and I thought this worthy of a groan.
This actually poses a whole nother topic of discussion. If something phrased so innocuously as this particular pun is considered to actually be "racist" (discriminatory or prejudiced toward a race of people), hateful, or "punching down"; and people like Kamala Harris who are in serious positions of power think that their time is best spent introducing bills in direct opposition to the free speech guaranteed in the first amendment we're going to have two problems.
1. Our constitution (which we still pretend to revere, but only when it suits us politically) would have become worthless; and by extension the meaning and struggle for any civil liberties in which some groups of us are currently fighting may as well be null and void.
2. We're going to run out of words to say that don't offend or incite someone to violence really fucking soon as no one is able to discern the difference between sarcasm, jokes, and threats.
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/kamala-harris-introduces-resolution-condemning-use-of-racist-phrases-like-wuhan-viruschinese-viruskung-flu
but that is another conversation.
tl;dr I still find the term amusing, but I'm really dismayed that people are using it as a warcry against an entire race of people because of where the virus turned up, so I'll stop using it out of consideration for others.
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Potatoman-J said:
Also, my vote is for "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
Also, my vote is for "COVID 2: Hypoxic Kung Flu"
I just read this post for the first time.
I'm not replying to engage in the discussion about how we are dealing with COVID-19. I'm also not replying to comment on the Potatoman-J post that I've quoted here; he seems to have made a fairly lengthy comment on it himself.
The reason I'm replying is to express dismay at the lack of people talking about Potatoman-J's comment. I realize there is a very large issue in this thread already, but only one person mentioned it. Only one. Sure, one other person replied to the person calling it out, but only one person called it out. One.
I started visiting this site about 22 years ago, and I've seen people post shitty, misogynistic shit, but those people seemed to get called out little by little over the years. I've seen people post shitty homophobic and transphobic shit, but those people seemed to get called out little by little over the years. I was away from here for a few years and just came back last week, making contact with other UMDers for the first time in a long time, and now I see a phrase pop up in the forum which is born of racist xenophobia, a phrase that carries with it a lot of anti-Asian sentiment, a phrase connected to a lot of anti-Asian racist hatred and violence which has been occurring all over Canada and the States recently... and only one person here spoke up. Only one.
I have a lot I want to say about this, but I'm gonna keep it really short:
If anyone here read that comment and didn't say anything, why the fuck not?
And for the folks who have a problem with seeing the point in a post, I'll remind you: I am not calling out Potatoman-J. I am calling out everyone who read this and said nothing.
Only one, man. What the fuck, UMD?
EDIT: I posted what you see above and then realized I'd been a little too quiet for my conscience.
First, Potatoman-J, your reply to luvs2pie was very thoughtful and showed some understanding of this and that, but I challenge you to look at it and ask yourself if you really care about the people on the receiving end of the hatred and violence connected to phrases like "kung flu."
You end your reply with:
"I still find the term amusing, but I'm really dismayed that people are using it as a warcry against an entire race of people because of where the virus turned up, so I'll stop using it out of consideration for others."
"Out of consideration for others." Doesn't sound like your research and contemplation brought you to a place where you get it. Where's the feeling? Where's the understanding of what you made another person feel? Where's even the least bit of remorse that -- whether you were ignorant of what you'd done or not -- that you used that phrase, thereby making a fellow UMDer feel unwelcome here and, at the same time, making other racists feel supported in their views?
Second, leonmoomin, you start your reply with:
"There is no way whatsoever that PotatomanJ would ever intend to say or publicise a racist label."
While the rest of your post makes it sound like you understand the problem of racism among white people, you still manage to unravel that by making sure you forgive the white racist who committed the offense. Why are we so afraid of calling each other out?! Is it because we're afraid we might have to REALLY examine our own racism, so we're trying to call out racism as a vague idea that exists elsewhere, but not in the people around us?
How the fuck are we ever going to fix this if we're not honest? We have to be honest with ourselves, and we have to be honest with our white family and friends when they say or do racist things. So let's start by saying, Potatoman-J, that was a pretty racist phrase you used.
Sure, now things are uncomfortable between me and Potatoman-J, but who gives a fuck when shit like that happens all the time, everywhere, making life uncomfortable for anyone who isn't white in Canada and the States. He'll deal with it however he wants. Maybe we'll be friends, maybe we won't. At this point, as far as I'm concerned, it depends on how honestly he's willing to examine his actions, not how eloquently he can explain them.
You, too, leonmoomin. Your post contained anti-racist sentiment, but the net effect was the forgiveness of a racist comment by assuring the offender and all other white people reading it that you won't ACTUALLY call anyone out. Come on, man. Try again, please.
I'm expecting backlash to this. And if you come at me pointing out anything I've said or done that's racist, bring it on! I was and am a racist and I am fighting to reform. And one the things I'm doing to that end is not letting the other white people around me get away with this shit.
I won't deny I'm racist, we all possess a certain level of ignorance that makes us racist, sexist, etc. It's part of the territory in belonging to a race, sex, (insert group here). Eventually you will come to a point where you don't have the answers and your ignorance shows. I'm apparently at that point here in this conversation.
I'm really asking and trying to figure out WHY certain things are labeled racist now though. Like I don't get it. I feel like what people call "racism" isn't how racism is defined. I mean this is what I got when I Googled "racism".
racism
/rsizm/
noun
1.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
2.
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
I don't get where I discriminated against a people based on their ethnic group. I don't get where I antagonized a minority or declared group A being better than group B.
In fact, based on Alumi's response, I think what my statement invoked was "offense" rather than "racism" (particular the second definition).
offense
/fens/
noun
1.
a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act. (I don't think I broke a law as Kamalla Harris' bill didn't pass)
a thing that constitutes a violation of what is judged to be right or natural.
2.
annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.
3.
the action of attacking someone or something. (I didn't attack anyone physically, verbally, or otherwise, my original statement wasn't directed at anyone)
I totally understand now that I upset Alumi and luvs2pie with my statement, but I don't understand why my statement did so. And that's probably because I don't share their experience. I'm not Asian and I haven't been harassed or persecuted. And for the life of me, I don't get why anyone would bother. I get that humanity is dumb, vengeful, and barbaric; but how can you blame an entire race of people for a disease that came from one animal and one country.
I get that what they are doing IS racist in that they are singling out one group and antagonizing or attacking the other group.
But I don't get how my original comment does that. Again, I understand it being offensive because YOU perceive it as an attack (even though it's not). But I don't get how it's racist.
As to why anyone else did or didn't speak out? Probably because it's fucking EXHAUSTING. After working COVID orders for 10 hours at work, coming on here tonight and writing out this dissertation wasn't what I was hoping to do tonight (I'm certainly not getting credit towards a doctorate for it). Maybe others aren't as good at putting what they want to say into words? Maybe they're still carefully considering what they want to say before they say something incorrect or worse "unpopular" and people jump down their throats.
Those are some of my guesses, because those are certainly the scenarios that went through my mind. In fact maybe this is why the VAST majority of people here lurk and don't say anything at all. Maybe this is why everyone else at that supermarket said and did nothing when I confronted that family that refused to put on masks in a crowd the other week.
Maybe people are sick and tired of having to ALWAYS be on the defense for anything and everything they do, say, or think. People are often wrong, ME ESPECIALLY. And a lot of people don't want to admit that. But society today seems to take every difference of opinion and draw offense, anger and conflict out of it.
So maybe THAT is why you're not getting more responses. I'm not looking for that. I want to understand and grow. I LIKE your response and while I may disagree with parts of it, I'm glad you made it. I'm glad because EACH of us lives a life that is equal in possibility, but incredibly different in experience.
In conclusion:
It didn't. That's exactly what I'm searching for; understanding.
I think it started with that conjunction "but" in my last post
But in the truest sense I don't feel "remorse" as I don't feel I've said or done anything that should make me feel particularly guilty (and I'm one of the most self-loathing muthafuckers you'll ever meet).
I'm doing my best to choose my words carefully (even though I know I'll still say something wrong and fuck up). I'm not "sorry" for what I said because I still don't think anything I said was wrong. What I said WAS however "offensive" to at least two of you. And for THAT, I apologize. Hatred is exhausting, I don't want to hurt people, EVER. Tease, antagonize a bit, yes, I do those things, and it's hard to know where the line is with new people.
Now I'm going to jerk off and go to bed.
I'm really asking and trying to figure out WHY certain things are labeled racist now though. Like I don't get it. I feel like what people call "racism" isn't how racism is defined. I mean this is what I got when I Googled "racism".
racism
/rsizm/
noun
1.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
2.
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
I don't get where I discriminated against a people based on their ethnic group. I don't get where I antagonized a minority or declared group A being better than group B.
In fact, based on Alumi's response, I think what my statement invoked was "offense" rather than "racism" (particular the second definition).
offense
/fens/
noun
1.
a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act. (I don't think I broke a law as Kamalla Harris' bill didn't pass)
a thing that constitutes a violation of what is judged to be right or natural.
2.
annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.
3.
the action of attacking someone or something. (I didn't attack anyone physically, verbally, or otherwise, my original statement wasn't directed at anyone)
I totally understand now that I upset Alumi and luvs2pie with my statement, but I don't understand why my statement did so. And that's probably because I don't share their experience. I'm not Asian and I haven't been harassed or persecuted. And for the life of me, I don't get why anyone would bother. I get that humanity is dumb, vengeful, and barbaric; but how can you blame an entire race of people for a disease that came from one animal and one country.
I get that what they are doing IS racist in that they are singling out one group and antagonizing or attacking the other group.
But I don't get how my original comment does that. Again, I understand it being offensive because YOU perceive it as an attack (even though it's not). But I don't get how it's racist.
As to why anyone else did or didn't speak out? Probably because it's fucking EXHAUSTING. After working COVID orders for 10 hours at work, coming on here tonight and writing out this dissertation wasn't what I was hoping to do tonight (I'm certainly not getting credit towards a doctorate for it). Maybe others aren't as good at putting what they want to say into words? Maybe they're still carefully considering what they want to say before they say something incorrect or worse "unpopular" and people jump down their throats.
Those are some of my guesses, because those are certainly the scenarios that went through my mind. In fact maybe this is why the VAST majority of people here lurk and don't say anything at all. Maybe this is why everyone else at that supermarket said and did nothing when I confronted that family that refused to put on masks in a crowd the other week.
Maybe people are sick and tired of having to ALWAYS be on the defense for anything and everything they do, say, or think. People are often wrong, ME ESPECIALLY. And a lot of people don't want to admit that. But society today seems to take every difference of opinion and draw offense, anger and conflict out of it.
So maybe THAT is why you're not getting more responses. I'm not looking for that. I want to understand and grow. I LIKE your response and while I may disagree with parts of it, I'm glad you made it. I'm glad because EACH of us lives a life that is equal in possibility, but incredibly different in experience.
In conclusion:
Alumi said: "Out of consideration for others." Doesn't sound like your research and contemplation brought you to a place where you get it. Where's the feeling? Where's the understanding of what you made another person feel?
It didn't. That's exactly what I'm searching for; understanding.
Alumi said: Where's even the least bit of remorse that -- whether you were ignorant of what you'd done or not -- that you used that phrase, thereby making a fellow UMDer feel unwelcome here and, at the same time, making other racists feel supported in their views
I think it started with that conjunction "but" in my last post
Potatoman-J said: I still find the term amusing, but I'm really dismayed that people are using it as a warcry against an entire race of people because of where the virus turned up, so I'll stop using it out of consideration for others.
But in the truest sense I don't feel "remorse" as I don't feel I've said or done anything that should make me feel particularly guilty (and I'm one of the most self-loathing muthafuckers you'll ever meet).
I'm doing my best to choose my words carefully (even though I know I'll still say something wrong and fuck up). I'm not "sorry" for what I said because I still don't think anything I said was wrong. What I said WAS however "offensive" to at least two of you. And for THAT, I apologize. Hatred is exhausting, I don't want to hurt people, EVER. Tease, antagonize a bit, yes, I do those things, and it's hard to know where the line is with new people.
Now I'm going to jerk off and go to bed.
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Potatoman-J said: I won't deny I'm racist, we all possess a certain level of ignorance that makes us racist, sexist, etc. It's part of the territory in belonging to a race, sex, (insert group here). Eventually you will come to a point where you don't have the answers and your ignorance shows. I'm apparently at that point here in this conversation.
I'm really asking and trying to figure out WHY certain things are labeled racist now though. Like I don't get it. I feel like what people call "racism" isn't how racism is defined. I mean this is what I got when I Googled "racism".
racism
/rsizm/
noun
1.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
2.
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
I don't get where I discriminated against a people based on their ethnic group. I don't get where I antagonized a minority or declared group A being better than group B.
In fact, based on Alumi's response, I think what my statement invoked was "offense" rather than "racism" (particular the second definition).
offense
/fens/
noun
1.
a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act. (I don't think I broke a law as Kamalla Harris' bill didn't pass)
a thing that constitutes a violation of what is judged to be right or natural.
2.
annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.
3.
the action of attacking someone or something. (I didn't attack anyone physically, verbally, or otherwise, my original statement wasn't directed at anyone)
I totally understand now that I upset Alumi and luvs2pie with my statement, but I don't understand why my statement did so. And that's probably because I don't share their experience. I'm not Asian and I haven't been harassed or persecuted. And for the life of me, I don't get why anyone would bother. I get that humanity is dumb, vengeful, and barbaric; but how can you blame an entire race of people for a disease that came from one animal and one country.
I get that what they are doing IS racist in that they are singling out one group and antagonizing or attacking the other group.
But I don't get how my original comment does that. Again, I understand it being offensive because YOU perceive it as an attack (even though it's not). But I don't get how it's racist.
As to why anyone else did or didn't speak out? Probably because it's fucking EXHAUSTING. After working COVID orders for 10 hours at work, coming on here tonight and writing out this dissertation wasn't what I was hoping to do tonight (I'm certainly not getting credit towards a doctorate for it). Maybe others aren't as good at putting what they want to say into words? Maybe they're still carefully considering what they want to say before they say something incorrect or worse "unpopular" and people jump down their throats.
Those are some of my guesses, because those are certainly the scenarios that went through my mind. In fact maybe this is why the VAST majority of people here lurk and don't say anything at all. Maybe this is why everyone else at that supermarket said and did nothing when I confronted that family that refused to put on masks in a crowd the other week.
Maybe people are sick and tired of having to ALWAYS be on the defense for anything and everything they do, say, or think. People are often wrong, ME ESPECIALLY. And a lot of people don't want to admit that. But society today seems to take every difference of opinion and draw offense, anger and conflict out of it.
So maybe THAT is why you're not getting more responses. I'm not looking for that. I want to understand and grow. I LIKE your response and while I may disagree with parts of it, I'm glad you made it. I'm glad because EACH of us lives a life that is equal in possibility, but incredibly different in experience.
In conclusion:
It didn't. That's exactly what I'm searching for; understanding.
I think it started with that conjunction "but" in my last post
But in the truest sense I don't feel "remorse" as I don't feel I've said or done anything that should make me feel particularly guilty (and I'm one of the most self-loathing muthafuckers you'll ever meet).
I'm doing my best to choose my words carefully (even though I know I'll still say something wrong and fuck up). I'm not "sorry" for what I said because I still don't think anything I said was wrong. What I said WAS however "offensive" to at least two of you. And for THAT, I apologize. Hatred is exhausting, I don't want to hurt people, EVER. Tease, antagonize a bit, yes, I do those things, and it's hard to know where the line is with new people.
Now I'm going to jerk off and go to bed.
I'm really asking and trying to figure out WHY certain things are labeled racist now though. Like I don't get it. I feel like what people call "racism" isn't how racism is defined. I mean this is what I got when I Googled "racism".
racism
/rsizm/
noun
1.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
2.
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
I don't get where I discriminated against a people based on their ethnic group. I don't get where I antagonized a minority or declared group A being better than group B.
In fact, based on Alumi's response, I think what my statement invoked was "offense" rather than "racism" (particular the second definition).
offense
/fens/
noun
1.
a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act. (I don't think I broke a law as Kamalla Harris' bill didn't pass)
a thing that constitutes a violation of what is judged to be right or natural.
2.
annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.
3.
the action of attacking someone or something. (I didn't attack anyone physically, verbally, or otherwise, my original statement wasn't directed at anyone)
I totally understand now that I upset Alumi and luvs2pie with my statement, but I don't understand why my statement did so. And that's probably because I don't share their experience. I'm not Asian and I haven't been harassed or persecuted. And for the life of me, I don't get why anyone would bother. I get that humanity is dumb, vengeful, and barbaric; but how can you blame an entire race of people for a disease that came from one animal and one country.
I get that what they are doing IS racist in that they are singling out one group and antagonizing or attacking the other group.
But I don't get how my original comment does that. Again, I understand it being offensive because YOU perceive it as an attack (even though it's not). But I don't get how it's racist.
As to why anyone else did or didn't speak out? Probably because it's fucking EXHAUSTING. After working COVID orders for 10 hours at work, coming on here tonight and writing out this dissertation wasn't what I was hoping to do tonight (I'm certainly not getting credit towards a doctorate for it). Maybe others aren't as good at putting what they want to say into words? Maybe they're still carefully considering what they want to say before they say something incorrect or worse "unpopular" and people jump down their throats.
Those are some of my guesses, because those are certainly the scenarios that went through my mind. In fact maybe this is why the VAST majority of people here lurk and don't say anything at all. Maybe this is why everyone else at that supermarket said and did nothing when I confronted that family that refused to put on masks in a crowd the other week.
Maybe people are sick and tired of having to ALWAYS be on the defense for anything and everything they do, say, or think. People are often wrong, ME ESPECIALLY. And a lot of people don't want to admit that. But society today seems to take every difference of opinion and draw offense, anger and conflict out of it.
So maybe THAT is why you're not getting more responses. I'm not looking for that. I want to understand and grow. I LIKE your response and while I may disagree with parts of it, I'm glad you made it. I'm glad because EACH of us lives a life that is equal in possibility, but incredibly different in experience.
In conclusion:
Alumi said: "Out of consideration for others." Doesn't sound like your research and contemplation brought you to a place where you get it. Where's the feeling? Where's the understanding of what you made another person feel?
It didn't. That's exactly what I'm searching for; understanding.
Alumi said: Where's even the least bit of remorse that -- whether you were ignorant of what you'd done or not -- that you used that phrase, thereby making a fellow UMDer feel unwelcome here and, at the same time, making other racists feel supported in their views
I think it started with that conjunction "but" in my last post
Potatoman-J said: I still find the term amusing, but I'm really dismayed that people are using it as a warcry against an entire race of people because of where the virus turned up, so I'll stop using it out of consideration for others.
But in the truest sense I don't feel "remorse" as I don't feel I've said or done anything that should make me feel particularly guilty (and I'm one of the most self-loathing muthafuckers you'll ever meet).
I'm doing my best to choose my words carefully (even though I know I'll still say something wrong and fuck up). I'm not "sorry" for what I said because I still don't think anything I said was wrong. What I said WAS however "offensive" to at least two of you. And for THAT, I apologize. Hatred is exhausting, I don't want to hurt people, EVER. Tease, antagonize a bit, yes, I do those things, and it's hard to know where the line is with new people.
Now I'm going to jerk off and go to bed.
The word has been weaponized by a certain world leader who likes to stoke racial hatred to distract from his awful leadership.
As such the word is now deeply offensive as it enables the asshole in chief to spread his poisonous propaganda.
It is offensive, it is a fucking virus, a virus has no race or religion, it's just a microbe.
That word suggests that it is Chinese, that the enemy is Chinese, that the virus is running around in a martial arts outfit.
It's NOT cool.
It isn't up to me to forgive on this matter, sorry if you thought I did, that's up to you guys who were personally offended, I just relayed my own personal feelings about PotatomanJ's character, which I stand by, in "my" experience he is a good guy.
It's not racist but because Trump says it, it actually is racist? Wut? That's some strong TDS you got going there, might want to get an ointment or something to treat that.
Either it is or it isn't. Come on.
Here, I like Alumi, particularly back in the day with his videos (piedasiangirls, right?), nobody meant to offend anyone, I don't think Potato is a racist, I strongly doubt he meant to be hurtful or hateful, seems to me like a moment to just say, "Oh yea man sorry" followed by, "It's cool bro" but maybe that's me.
Do I want to actually dig through this and see what he said? Something like wuflu, right? Wait, it was the kungfu variant. Meh, yeah, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of thing but it's not also made at my expense/culture/race, so not my place to tell anyone how to feel. Alumi is uncool with it, we're all here to be friends (in theory), had I done that I'd probably offer a short, sweet and sincere apology and move on.
Either it is or it isn't. Come on.
Here, I like Alumi, particularly back in the day with his videos (piedasiangirls, right?), nobody meant to offend anyone, I don't think Potato is a racist, I strongly doubt he meant to be hurtful or hateful, seems to me like a moment to just say, "Oh yea man sorry" followed by, "It's cool bro" but maybe that's me.
Do I want to actually dig through this and see what he said? Something like wuflu, right? Wait, it was the kungfu variant. Meh, yeah, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of thing but it's not also made at my expense/culture/race, so not my place to tell anyone how to feel. Alumi is uncool with it, we're all here to be friends (in theory), had I done that I'd probably offer a short, sweet and sincere apology and move on.
The fact is that there are differences between prejudices and racism.
Everyone has prejudices based on how they were raised, but when and how you act on those is where it becomes racism.
"Kung Flu" is a racist comment that has no place in actually resolving a medical crisis. The fact that the president of the United States EVER said it is appalling and that in itself should be grounds for removal from office.
Everyone has prejudices based on how they were raised, but when and how you act on those is where it becomes racism.
"Kung Flu" is a racist comment that has no place in actually resolving a medical crisis. The fact that the president of the United States EVER said it is appalling and that in itself should be grounds for removal from office.
Enigmahood said: It's not racist but because Trump says it, it actually is racist? Wut? That's some strong TDS you got going there, might want to get an ointment or something to treat that.
Either it is or it isn't. Come on.
Here, I like Alumi, particularly back in the day with his videos (piedasiangirls, right?), nobody meant to offend anyone, I don't think Potato is a racist, I strongly doubt he meant to be hurtful or hateful, seems to me like a moment to just say, "Oh yea man sorry" followed by, "It's cool bro" but maybe that's me.
Do I want to actually dig through this and see what he said? Something like wuflu, right? Wait, it was the kungfu variant. Meh, yeah, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of thing but it's not also made at my expense/culture/race, so not my place to tell anyone how to feel. Alumi is uncool with it, we're all here to be friends (in theory), had I done that I'd probably offer a short, sweet and sincere apology and move on.
Either it is or it isn't. Come on.
Here, I like Alumi, particularly back in the day with his videos (piedasiangirls, right?), nobody meant to offend anyone, I don't think Potato is a racist, I strongly doubt he meant to be hurtful or hateful, seems to me like a moment to just say, "Oh yea man sorry" followed by, "It's cool bro" but maybe that's me.
Do I want to actually dig through this and see what he said? Something like wuflu, right? Wait, it was the kungfu variant. Meh, yeah, I'm not particularly sensitive to that kind of thing but it's not also made at my expense/culture/race, so not my place to tell anyone how to feel. Alumi is uncool with it, we're all here to be friends (in theory), had I done that I'd probably offer a short, sweet and sincere apology and move on.
Aww, does the little Troll need more attention?
Let me try to help with your reading:
The word has been weaponized by a certain world leader who likes to stoke racial hatred to distract from his awful leadership.
As such the word is now deeply offensive as it enables the asshole in chief to spread his poisonous propaganda.
As such the word is now deeply offensive as it enables the asshole in chief to spread his poisonous propaganda.
Trump weaponised the word for his anti-China propaganda, not saying it's racist because Trump said it, I'm saying he has weaponised an already racist word.
It is offensive, it is a fucking virus, a virus has no race or religion, it's just a microbe.
That word suggests that it is Chinese, that the enemy is Chinese, that the virus is running around in a martial arts outfit.
It's NOT cool.
That word suggests that it is Chinese, that the enemy is Chinese, that the virus is running around in a martial arts outfit.
It's NOT cool.
Yes, it's racist, were you not able to read some of the words?
It isn't up to me to forgive on this matter, sorry if you thought I did, that's up to you guys who were personally offended, I just relayed my own personal feelings about PotatomanJ's character, which I stand by, in "my" experience he is a good guy.
Sorry is in that sentence, then I moved on, obviously if I'm still being insensitive I'll come back to it.
But then a pathetic attention seeking troll brought me back.
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