After reading the papers this morning and a few different stories involving gender issues, this is my prediction for the (very?) near future

I've noticed this a few times when when a celeb comes out these days, that they're announcing themselves as Pansexual (P), rather than Bisexual (B).

Add to this that the Transgenders (T) in LGBT+ seem to carry so much influence within groups and organisations (eg. Stonewall), it seems logical that eventually the Bs will have to become Ps, as to be otherwise, would be seen as T-phobic. So, LGBT+ will change to LGPT+ and the Bs will be a thing of the past.

Might get some shit for thinking that (probably offends someone somewhere) but any thoughts?

No shit aimed as the difference between bisexual and pansexual is slightly different.

Bi - attracted to multiple sexes and/or genders but not all.
Pan - attracted to all regardless of sex and/or gender.

And even by saying this, some pan and bi people will say I am wrong/gatekeeping as it's personal to each person and to them I apologise and will read their comments and learn.

Bi used to mean attracted to 2 genders but that has changed over time and pan was kind of supposed to replace it as more inclusive but that caused infighting as the LGBT+ community does not like erasure of any kind (except the band).

This is quite a good article on it but by no means the only thoughts! https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/whats-the-real-difference-between-bi-and-pansexual-667087/

Ultimately words and language change all the time, you might be right but personally I think it will be a generational thing, a word that just becomes less used and then vanishes.

Bullshit, it's not. They are words to help classify people's sexuality. Gate keeping is Trans or Pan people bullying bisexual people for only being sexually attracted to people who are either cis male or female. Frankly, fuck that.

My ex-wife and I got divorced over their transition. Did they or ANY of our trans friends give me shit because I wanted sex, they didn't, and they had no interest in being a woman anymore? Nope, not EVEN ONE of them. There was nothing but love and support for our decision.

If being gay/bi/pan/trans ISN'T a choice, then NOT being attracted to someone who's trans isn't a choice either. They can't have it both ways.

You like what you like, I like what I like, if neither of us are harming someone, then who the fuck should care?

Hope it aint the end of bisexuals cos I've been meaning to do the washing this week and its gonna be a fuck on if my like are wiped out by the end of the week.

But seriously there might be a fair bit of bi-erasure and biphobia going on in certain LGBT (and quite frankly quite a few straights as well) circles at the mo. I mean ya see it on the tele and on Twitter quite a bit but I dont think its nearly as prevalent as the dangerous TERF attacks we're seeing against our Trans comrades in the movement these days. I think there's a place for all manners of self identifying gender or non gendered attractions in the movement and hopefully these contradictions will be sorted as dialogue continues and ya know everything's rosy.

That being said, the recent corporatisation and neoliberalization of the movement that means we get plastered on adverts until we're deemed degenerates and perverts and they happily reintroduce section 28 cos we're not profitable to sell to anymore, means we seem to turn scab on each other more than usual. This fuckin country seems rife for it unfortunately with widespread Transphobia growing amongst the rich commentariat and their bourgeois pals harking their stream of shite in the media.

Anyhow, nah, doubt we'll be getting the end of bi folk anytime soon (as long as I'm till on this god forsaken Earth anyhow) but its good to still keep vigilant of not only cheap attacks on bi's but also every queer identity we call comrades. Its only through that solidarity that we'll get through any attempts by the fuckers to try and undo the past 50 years of the liberation struggle.

I want to know why it matters so much to people who are not in the situation how the person classifies themselves. If you are not in the relationship then identity only matters so that you can correctly identify someone with their proper pronouns. Yes there is a difference between bisexuals and pansexuals. While I don't know all the differences or why they are differences, I also don't understand the differences as many of my friends who identify in those groups have tried many times to explain them. I just decided that whatever they identify as is what they identify as and God bless so to say. The only thing that is important to me is that they are happy and in healthy relationships. The media, celebrities, even us here on the forum really do not have the right to assign a title to someone based on our understanding of things or the way we think it should be. We also do not have the right to suggest that a title should be done away with or may be coming to an end. In my mind it would be arrogant and insensitive to tell people that their sexual identities do not matter any more because there are too many or that one is basically the same as another. The best clarification I can give you for the difference comes from geek culture. Captain Jack from Dr. Who would be a Pansexual. Willow from Buffy would be a Bisexual. I may be wrong, but that is how I understand it.

What's important in a way is to know what you are yourself
Everything else comes from that rooted self how you get to that self is the journey.

Some people journey at different levels.

I always parsed the term bisexual as meaning attracted to people of the same gender and to people of other genders. That makes sense to me as homo=same, hetero=different, so bi=both of those, without excluding trans, genderfluid or non-binary folk. That's what I mean when I use the term bisexual for myself at least, though I'm wary of getting too prescriptive with definitions as someone else might use it differently.

This is one of these questions that make us all realise that gender and sexuality are so much more fluid and more complex than we're lead to believe. In general, what silver-sea said about the difference between bisexual and pansexual (Bi - attracted to multiple sexes and/or genders but not all. Pan - attracted to all regardless of sex and/or gender) is correct, but not completely. In the end, only the individual can determine their sexual orientation and, if they want to put a label on it, that's up to them. All everyone else needs to do is accept them for who they are.

If anyone is interested and wants to learn more, there are whole spectra of gender identities and sexual orientations out there for you to explore and learn. IT's quite a fascinating subject.

I always found that to be the most absurd hypocrisy coming from the more radicalized segments of the alphabet soup (who seem to be the only ones who get a prominent voice from that community) i think it's what draws a lot of the legitimate disagreements from others (which usually gets immediately dismissed as 'yuh transphobia'. If you want to be accepted for who you are then you gotta accept that you wont be everyone's cup of tea.


abso-fucking-lutely nail on head. I dont care what you are or what you like as long as you arent harming anybody or trying to jam your particular views down other's throats. Of course, that doesnt extend to stuff that is literally abominable to everyone (bestiality/zoophilia for example).

On the matter of the problems between feminism and the trans community, while i can understand (as best i can) that they see any exclusion as bad but the legitimate concerns raised by the sensible, reasonable non-radical elements of feminism are, well, legitimate and of important to biological women.
As an outside looking in, i think there will have to be compromise eventually, likely (in my theoretical possibling) from the trans community, about where trans women stand in regarding to women-only businesses, facilities and etc. Whether the radical elements of the transgender community can be reigned in so genuine discussion can be held without incessant screeching of 'you're transphobic' is another matter entirely.

TL;DR:
I think most people dont care who you are or what you like as long as dont try to get special treatment and/or try to lord over others and jam your views down their throats.

Yeah, agreed! And I will say, I've called myself bisexual for a long time, I'm supportive of trans rights and have multiple trans friends, and I have had literally no pushback or criticism about using that label, ever. The idea that bisexuals or bisexuality is threatened just doesn't ring true to what I see.
It's true that younger generations are referring to themselves as Pan more frequently, with a meaning that can often overlap with what would have been called bisexual, but I think that's just a natural shift in language over time, not anything forced.

Every time I hear the term pansexual I giggle a little because I think of the clip I shot for Trinity May

https://www.erome.com/a/AYfjouns

I have nothing against bisexuals. I believe that this is a personal choice of everyone with whom to make love.

I found this thread interesting as I'm middle aged and bisexual. When I was growing up the age of consent for homosexual sex was still 21 and George Michael was in the closet with the door firmly locked. Being bisexual I was defiantly looked down on by gays and lesbians. In some ways that's understandable as I had the option to be a breeder. Lesbians certainly didn't consider me an option for a serious relationship on the grounds that they believed I would leave them for a man. Heterosexual lads were upset that I wasn't pretty and into group sex and the general perception of bisexual people was that we are all promiscuous sex crazed cheats.
So I did what most bisexuals did and do. I defined my sexuality by who I was partnered with. In other words you define yourself as hetro or homo depending on whether your partner is the opposite or the same gender.
Once I became part of the kink community a whole new spectrum of definitions became available to me such as pansexual. People didn't react as badly to these definitions and as there were individuals scattered across the whole spectrum of gender I found attractive I rejected the bisexual label and took up pansexual.
Then definitions became more important, non-binary and trans folk became assertive about personal pronouns and face book had more categories to choose from than net flix.
All those labels just confused people and importantly they messed up data and muddied legal definitions.
In the last five years or so bisexual people have started to reclaim the word. Most now agree that bisexual people are simply people who are or have been attracted to more than one gender. It's become a legal term and an umbrella term with a more encompassing definition.
My predictions for the future;
Some people will use terms like pansexual, some people will invent new terms and at some point they'll all be accused of not being woke.
The media will fuel pointless debates and there'll be people banned from twitter for using the wrong vocabulary.
However pansexual and the various other labels won't be legal terms bisexual will. If someone discriminates against me because of my sexuality I will use the word bisexual when talking to my union rep not pansexual.

Not logged in for a while. Wasn't in prison or anything, just life gets in the way now and then.

Some interesting responses and I hope laundry got done. I guess only time will really tell, but the more I see in the media, that seems to be the direction of things. Maybe the media doesn't have it right, selective reporting, agendas and all that. But if you've got roles, titles and terms like Mother, Father being erased in favour of more inclusive ones, if baby gender reveals are Transphobic now (singer Semi Potato thinks so), then I still think Bi could go as well. It's certainly not impossible to imagine a world where only liking men with penises and women with vaginas, but not the other way around, would be deemed bad.