I know there was an earlier post about the future of WAM in 10 years, but I want to approach the question a little differently.

How do you think producing WAM will change in 10 years? And are there are any NEW ideas that we have yet to see? Or has it all been done and we are now just seeing variations of old ideas?

Good question...

This is my take on it... New producers will emerge with new and fresh ideas. Some will remain, but inevitably some will be short-lived. It'll depend on how serious they are and their knowledge of marketing and outreach. Long-term sites will also remain as they have their branding and niche styles embedded within their target audience. There is a lot of loyalty between specific producers and customers which helps people like us continue growing, so that helps in the long run.

We've said that as long as we are producing a healthy profit each month, (meaning continued consumer growth and investable returns), then we'll find a way to keep producing. But, perhaps on a more pessimistic note, doing a bit of research, it seems as though we are one of the few lucky ones who decently profits year round from this and has continued growing rapidly. It appears for many, this is more challenging, and that is unlikely to change with more content being available now.

One of the keys to success is maintaining your niche but constantly moving, keeping fresh and relevant and never getting tired.

A lot of older scenes will be recreated also but with the odd difference, i.e different model/outfit/substance etc. but the same basic scenario. Someone who perhaps wasn't that keen on the particular model or outfit she was wearing (or wasn't wearing) last time round, may buy the recreation because she is wearing socks or jeans (or naked this time). etc.. etc..

I guess that allows for all sorts of possibilities, the only issue is, as is becoming more apparent, messy production is getting more and more expensive and now considered a bigger financial risk than it was 10 years ago. To make your mark you really have to stand out and do something a bit different, but that becomes more financially risky for new start-ups. That may hold some back.

Talent.

Holding the line on prices is tough in a "race to the bottom" environment. Many don't understand that selling for half off might make more sales but won't make more profit.Pirates and organized theft like (no need to advertise) are making things increasingly difficult. (Bad guys) model is like doing business with the mafia. Here, become a content provider for us so we can get a piece of the action or we'll just let everyone steal your stuff and share it for free. Great, thanks.

The rest of the stuff is probably manageable with good business practices - Expenses like talent, travel, insurance, etc never go down even though the technology is getting cheaper. Formats like VR and ever increasing definition require new hardware and new ways to shoot. Competition demands that you improve the product at least a little so that has to be addressed. This is challenging with a relatively small audience. MPV began as a BBS in 1994 and has survived on the relentless work of Dave Lodoski and a few volunteers. Much the same for most in this genre. How long can that go on?

New producers will show up but I'm not convinced that the golden age of quality content for everyone will continue. Like the mom and pop business of Main Street USA they are being driven out of existence by overhead that only the largest outfits can support. I'm becoming more concerned about the regulation of speech and the influence of political correctness in limiting what we can see. The tyranny of the vocal minority is shaming stuff out of existence without any laws being passed. It's a new Puritanism that is made more sinister by being disguised as protecting others.You can do whatever you want to do but don't do that because it's offensive, demeaning, save the whales, etc.Everything is wrong now unless your cause is in vogue.

Many other things but suffice it to say that it's an uphill battle. Anyone who is making plans for ten years down the road has high aspirations indeed.

Materials

How much was a gallon of milk in 1999 for instance? (That's now 20 years ago disturbingly)

Nothing is getting cheaper

Yes.
I pay more to shoot a model for one scene in 2018/19 than I did to book a model for an entire shoot in 2005 (which was like 5 scenes back then).

By comparison the increase in cost of materials is negligible. Crusts, Cool Whip, cake mix.... They haven't gone up significantly. Technology has improved for less money and storage is cheap, so no extra costs there.

There's lots of factors, but the simplest one is that the rise of social media has allowed certain individuals (mostly hot women) to "monetize" their following. Which is a fancy way of saying.... A lot of "models" just stay at home, take selfies, carefully curate their social media, and make $500 or more per post. To convince one of these models to get hit with baked goods for hours and wash her hair (with expensive extensions ) over and over in the downtime..... will require the right personality AND significantly more than $500.....

Good talent. The supply of attractive ladies with good work ethic has never been huge but it's increasingly under strain. The good economy isn't helping with that but there's more at work there. It's getting harder to find ladies that know how to show up on time, or at all, or call you if they have problems. Can you get on a plane? Show up on time with your makeup and not your personal problems? Can you get along with the other ladies in a professional manner? Just basic stuff like that is getting harder to come across. Scarcity raises the price.

MPV has almost always worked by referral from one model to another. Lena Ramon brought Paris Kennedy who brought Star Nine who brought Ashley Lane and they were all terrific going back to 2005. There's been many others like that but it's getting more difficult.

Exactly right. Part of that work ethic thing I was babbling about. Pretty ladies can stay and home and make good money.They don't have to deal with bugs, mud, five showers a day, etc. MPV is fortunate in that the food is great at the studio and it's a nice atmosphere but it's hard to beat your own home.

In 10 years I'm sure everything will be the same, but with a new guard taking over for the old guard. I'll be in my mid 60s in 10 years and I'm sure by then MG Inc. will either be sold to a younger generation of producer or we will hire someone to produce it and we will just supervise the whole thing. I can't see myself in my late 60s doing this. In my 30s it was fun since there was usually only a 10 year difference between me and the models. So we had no generation gap and I had tons of energy to shoot non stop. In my 40s it was starting to get tedious, but still tons of fun, because I had developed a great working relationship with the likes of Liz, Lane and London Andrews to name a few, and they made my job easier, because they knew what I wanted on camera. Now in my 50s I'm feeling a generation gap with the models. When Amy told me I remind her of her dad, I knew the generation gap was for real. Also recovery time after a long day of shoots takes much longer now than when I was in my 30s.

So in my mid 50's I felt we needed new blood. So brining in Alana helped bridge the gap this past year. I also have developed a fantastic working relationship and friendship with Amy and Penelope, and they are more than happy to help out in front and behind the camera. Amy has a marketing degree and is an established photographer. I could actually see her taking over the MG operation someday. She told me her modeling shelf life will expire in 3 years. So if she wants to run the damn thing I'll be more than happy to give her the keys.

I think any newcomers will have to have a plan for something unique and different and develop their own followers. Badly lit, or blurry videos won't be purchased at any price, as the consumers get accustomed to more higher end material.

If I were to start a wam site (and I have no intention to) I'd create a room, sort of like a movie set, and use huge amounts of substances in the hopes that sales would make it worthwhile. For example, there could be a skit with a couple of girls exploring the jungle to find a huge discarded bees nest in a tree. What they didn't notice was the honey pit under it, which of course, they both fall into and struggle for awhile, losing most of their clothing in the process.

So I think more elaborate setups, and more money needs to go into creating something new and different. With good equipment and lighting, the results would likely sell over the home-made videos. The jungle with the honey pit could be turned into a forest with a mud pit, or even a spa with a whipped cream pit. That's using the same layout of a room with a pit in the floor. Then there's waterfalls of various substances, including muddy water, or a creek or river of some substance, or the old food factory with tanks of gooey syrupy substances. All this would cost more to produce, but might be anticipated and purchased by regulars who appreciate all the effort and expense. (and huge messes)

Anyhow, that's one idea - the other would be in combining fetishes, which many of our current producers are doing now. An example is a fetish where the person is encased in an inflatable bag and cannot move. Almost like vacuum-sealing a person, naked into a plastic cocoon. The difference would be to suck the air out, then fill it with something thick but transparent, such as that Japanese 'lotion' slime.

We've all seen the ropes and handcuffs and stocks, but there are many other fetishes out there that lend themselves to wam, such as the one I mentioned.

Bottom line, take wam - combine a touch of some other fetish - use generous amounts of mess, great sets, beautiful models, pro production and it would probably be a winner.

I think that Duncan was correct to mention the main pressure areas facing the professional WAM producers: Theft, talent availability, 'race to the bottom' pricing and (I would add) market saturation are all notable factors. And I'm right there with MG, an aging body doesn't help matters.

There's no point in fleshing any of this out, really. I will keep going as long as it suits me.

If any of the younger crowd wants to pursue the material I produce, they should get busy doing something. I might be able to help out if it's in the next few years.

Well, this got depressing fast.

There are alot of good people out there producing alot of good stuff, but nobody does it quite like MG. When they do hang it up, the WAM world will never be the same.

With regard to those ever increasing costs: One way all we producers could fight piracy is just to charge hundreds of dollars for a video. That way, its fine if it gets posted somewhere. Youll only need to sell it once.

As a customer, i hate this idea, but just sayin.

This goes back to the "Is WAM Getting Boring" thread a little while ago, I was to busy to spend ages writing a long winded reply.

Doing something like having a massive WAM room, or building sets buying props and using massive amounts of gunge/mess is a great idea, the trouble is, one shoot will not make enough money to cover the costs of the investment or the rent, let alone make any profit.
Also, once you take on such a room, be prepared to have to shoot as much varied content as possible, unless you have some use other than just WAM production to subsidise the room.
Once you build a set in a room, you need to use it as many times as possible, with as many different girls, outfits and ideas as possible.
Of course, once you do that, you run the risk of it being called boring, same old thing.

The economics of production make it really, really hard, or impossible, to create One-Off masterpieces.

So whatever new ideas you come up with, be prepared to do it over and over again and somehow keep it interesting.

My point being, what is the future of producing WAM?
Unless it is subsidised by something else, lots and lots of hard work.

Just wait til you actually start producing!!

I know how Mr MG feels. It becomes different very quickly. I'm 66 and I know what he'll be experiencing soon.

I'm 33 and I feel like that now... doesn't bode well does it.

Producer's do seem to be inherently pessimistic so it appears (myself often included to be fair). Tbh, I've never actually met or really spoken to any other producers of wet and messy content. But have read a few downbeat things here and there. I guess at times it's good but other times it can be a little soul destroying. When you're clearing up cold mess at 10pm at night when it's all gone gray and mixed together, picking out lumps of... something (you can never be totally sure at that hour). All the models have left and you can't absolutely guarantee any sales? When the models are having a great time in the dressing room and you're on your hands and knees resetting for the next shoot, willing the end of the day to come, or your spleen to burst and put you out of your misery!

I'll be honest, one shoot last summer, I was literally so fed up, I just fucked off for a while. Just literally pissed off and left the studio and went for a stroll, was that stressed out. Every shoot, I think, should this be it, should we just stop here, what are we actually doing this for. But, a few days later, you look at people enjoying the videos, see memberships coming in and think, hmm, actually I guess it's not so bad for what is essentially a month's worth of shooting per year. But then, I'm lucky, at the end of the day I can shut the door and drive home. I can't begin to imagine what the producers who film in their own home go through. That can't be fun.

Another cause of pessimism is that naturally, the models tend to get all the praise and recognition, whereas producers, who thought everything up, funded everything, built the sets, made all the gunge, sorted the lighting, filmed everything, cleaned up and now have to try and sell the content, don't really get that much recognition in comparison. They do get the financial rewards (hopefully), but still drags a bit.

It probably doesn't help that we bang on about how well we're doing, it's good for customers, but probably feels like a slap in the face to other producers if it's a hard month. But, you have to promote when memberships are on the up and just stay quiet if/when they drop a little, as positive news like that does tend to have positive effects.

Anyway, I'm not one to moan (Christ, I could literally type for another hour).


Anyone fancy going for a pint and a right old moan about messy shoots?

Horse Hockey! 50 is the new 30! Sound like a bunch of old vets setting around telling Nam stories. LOL

I'll be 56 in a couple of weeks. Dave is already there. Life at Camp MPV can be rather strenuous at times to say the least. Our best friend is a large bottle of Advil in the medicine cabinet.

https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4

This combined with finances is probably why when (more likely if) the time comes, I will probably be a one off.

Personally I'm optimistic. Ok, it's possible that VR and CGI will become so convincing that anyone with a half-decent computer will be able to produce virtual reality WAM videos so lifelike that no-one can tell the difference and all producers and models will be out of a job as self-made takes over, but I suspect that's probably still more than 10 years away in reality, and Hollywood will be using it to shoot blockbuster movies before we get our hands on it.

I don't believe that everyone has to constantly go better and bigger than previously, just as long as basic production standards are kept to. Blurry, shaky, badly lit scenes won't sell, and neither will ones that have such terrible camera work that you can't see the money shots. But anyone serious about producing will soon learn the basics of photography and videography, and after that, all that really matters is to produce what people want to see. And the basics of that don't really change - a pie in a model's face or a litre of custard down their jeans is as appealing to a modern fetish audience as it was in the 1980s, as witnessed by the producers still selling digitised VHS clips from 30 years ago. The models, fashions, and hairstyles will change with time, but the basic premise that it's sexy to see an attractive person getting messy for your viewing pleasure, which is the core of the visual side of the fetish, will remain.

We should also keep in mind how very lucky we are to have the UMD - it's easy to take MM's work for granted as the developments are incremental rather than a big bang, but honestly, the facilities this site offers both producers and ordinary members are extraordinary. Long live the UMD is probably the one thing absolutely all of us should agree on.

MaxandStar, I kinda like your comparing this conversation to olds talking about 'Nam while using the phrase "horse hockey."

Col. Potter, white courtesy phone. Col. Potter, white courtesy phone, please.

Robo-models and models birthed in tubes, born only to participate in pie skit videos.

Leon, good points for sure. I was thinking a producer would have to build such a room into his/hers home. People put in pools, home theatre rooms, etc. so why not build a wam room, not only for producing material, but for personal enjoyment as well. It could be semi-hidden from the rest of the house for when family visits, etc. I've always liked secret doors and hidden rooms, where you lean on the bookcase and it opens up a doorway. Much easier would be a wall in a closet, but at any rate, a completely waterproof room with a floor that tilts to a storm-drain in the center would be perfect. It could even be a multi-level thing, with a messy pool area in the middle and a raised floor all around it. Yes, you'd then have to shoot videos where the girl(s) fall into something, but a messy shower, or waterfall could also be set up. Different corners of the room could house different 'sets' and there could be a storage room of waterproof props, etc. so that quite a variety of material could be shot. Let's say a muddy waterfall is set up. You could hold the mud that falls in a storage tank to re-use. The pool in the floor could be covered when shooting 'normal' room scenes. It would have to be designed in a very versatile manner, but wouldn't have to cost a lot if someone already had a spare room available. I do think more elaborate wam would outsell the basic home-videos. As for sharing illegally, we all just need to stand together against that practice and report infractions as soon as we see them. ('We' being the wam public, notifying the copyright owners)

You drastically over-estimate the amount of disposable income us producers take in from WAM.

Is there a board for hedge-fund managers into weird fetishes? Might be easier convincing a guy who makes $5 mil a year shifting numbers around to drop $20,000 on a secret WAM room.

This is what we're planning in 10 years

So many possibilities with a WAM room...

Great pick up