Yep, I know we discussed and posted about this show back when it started featuring adults... Spring 2014 maybe?

I still follow it but it's VERY hit-or-miss. Sometimes the pie game will go 7-8 rounds and sometimes (like last week when the women missed questions constantly) it will barely get through one! There's other frustrating stuff too, like sloppy camera work that only gets the back of someone's head after they're pied... Or the YT channel simply cutting random parts of the clip out for no reason.

Anyway. I used to offer 1080p clips that compiled the best moments for free in my DL Store last year. But I'm not allowed to do that now due to the new rules on copyrights. Still, I have over 2 hours worth of clips compiled from the show though... Just the good stuff and about 75% in full HD. I just don't have a way to distribute it. (Might need to ask WAMTEC Mark for advice!)

Yeah, but shaving cream on a plate???
Combate was always C-grade for that reason alone.

And if you watched it consistently (like I did for a while), there was always plenty of "drama" with a female contestant over a too-hard pie hit or whatever. So it's not like they were "happy go lucky" all the time. I guess the diva stuff is just a fact-of-life with these Brazilian shows though.

Personally, I'm not sure why one signs up for a show where the most popular segment consists of contestants getting pied.... And then complains that they don't want to get pied. There are literally HUNDREDS of shows on Brazilian TV where a hottie can find a job.

Here's a better question: Why aren't the guys on CM complaining MORE? These aren't the typical overweight schmucks from other shows or 'roided-up dudes. Most of these guys are (supposedly) male models and musicians. I can't imagine it's helping their careers to get clobbered with pies week-in and week-out.

Hmm. I suppose the Combate girls had better attitudes than the others (EEG, BLT) but there would still be insane diva attitudes going on.

I don't think the CM guys are any more dickish than the guys on these other programs. In fact, a lot of the "early cast" was gay (male models, remember) and that made for an interesting vibe. Not near as much testosterone... I always thought the Combate guys looked like the dudes in the gym who "grunt" constantly...

Combate and others also tended to switch it up so most times guys were pieing guys and girls pieing girls. On CM they play up the gender battle. I've never thought the girls look particularly sad when they get pied, but whatever. I know they look GLEEFUL when they're dishing it out tho.

And CM pies are far-and-away the best "not real" pies in the history of gameshows. I've had 10-20 people ask me in the last year to copy that formula or tell me what they're made of. I've *personally* tried to duplicate it several times, with so-so success. More than any mainstream show I've ever seen, all you have to do is push the pie into the face (not the hair or the chin) with a minimum of effort and it's a perfect pieing.

No one has yet asked me to spray shaving cream on a plastic plate to get that Combate look.

Johnny-Yen,

Is the level of emotional invesment here any more so than hundreds of millions of football, soccer, baseball and basketball fans have for their teams and players? Where I live there are three sports radio stations where fans argue in blood rage seven days a week from morning until night.

Is our level of emotional investment any more so than hundreds of millions of music and movie fans who obssess over their favorite singers and actors on thousands of websites producing billions of hits on YouTube?


While the Chega Mais models may not desire to be wammers that is part of their job. At least 25% of the show is a messy segment. It's therefore inarguable that they are indeed professional pie models. They could quit any time they choose. There are thousands of beautiful Brazilian women who would gladly take pies to the face in exchange for a paycheck and a few minutes of fame. I understand the economy in Brazil is in absolute tatters. For this I am sad. The Brazilian people deserve much better.

Like many, when I took my first job in a restaurant I did not aspire to clean the toilet. I wanted to cook. But I cleaned the toilet. And I was uncomfortable. And I was not treated well. And I was paid very little. Our jobs and careers often do not proceed exactly as we desired and planned.

Lastly, if the Chega Mais women are so uncomfortable with the pie-ing segment why do they pie the men (in a majority of cases) much more aggressively than the men pie them? Perhaps they like dishing out the humiliation more than they dislike receiving it? If this is true it might suggest that the women are deriving some sort of pleasure from the game that exceeds the rare moments of embarrassment and discomfort? And I'm sure that some of the Chega Mais men feel some level embarrassment and discomfort too.

I need to change my name to "Yeah, I know I'm ungrateful. So what?"
The thing I cannot stand about ANY of these hispanic torta na cara games
is the EXCESSIVE 6-minute-long TAUNTING, almost always by the guys,
before the actual torta na cara. And, to add insult to waiting,
they often MISS. Or they deliberately ruin the shot by going for the hair
instead of the face. Just boner-killing frustrating.

Thankfully, Domingo Legal makes up for it somewhat
with its excellent sticky pies & women in extremely short skirts or shorts.
But still..

SS,

The Combate women are clearly very athletic. You can see the muscles in their arms and the size of their thighs. They've got to be physically fit to run around the studio and compete with the men in all the games.

The CM women are tall and thin. Their body type is more akin to a runway model. They seem to lack the physical competitive spirit that the rougher (but still very hot) Combate women possess.

You probably wouldn't ever see the CM women playing (American) football with their male friends. They're too delicate. In comparison, some of the Combate women look like they might be able to kick serious ass.

There first two pieings are at 31:00 (following the guy actually kissing the girl first!), and at 38:15....with this second one (blue pie) having the guy mess up the girl's hair, like wise with the last yellow pie...all quite excellent.

At any other time, these would be considered major/excellent hits....so, three hot girls get pied out of nine (or so), that's 1 out of 3..not bad, and nothing tot complain about

Well said, Mr. Yen. All this moaning about the relative lack of female pieings on the recent shows comes from pie fetishists who seem to feel a mainstream entertainment program is obliged to cater to their fetishistic desires, and if it doesn't, it's somehow corrupt or at the very least inept. It makes only slightly more sense than the people who used to complain so loudly when the Nick KCAs would let them down, or some other mainstream TV show would have a messy scene that failed to live up to their fetish fantasies.

I know, I know... previous excellent Chega Mais shows set you up with expectations for more of the same. But have you heard the endlessly repeated disclaimer slogan of investment brokers? "Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance." Try to keep that in mind when you watch these shows. Also, remember that Chega Mais and the women on it do not OWE you anything. Consider yourselves lucky you got to see as many remarkable female pieings on it as you already have. And stop to think that if it frustrates you THIS much, maybe you should just stop watching.

[Any Simpsons characters in the vicinity, please take note: I'm not telling anyone to shut up and not express their feelings here. Everyone is free to say what they want, but remember that this includes me. I am free to have and express opinions about what other people say here, just as you in turn should feel free to criticize my ideas. Please just don't tell me how I should and should not post, as you have in a previous thread.]


No, of course not. But these comparisons are way off the mark. No one here is watching this show for a comparable reason that sports or music or movie fans obsessively follow their favorite teams, musicians, actors, directors, etc. The vast majority of us don't even speak the language this show is in, for christ's sake. We're watching it for one small, highly specialized aspect of the show that happens to us an erection when it's executed "properly." So please explain why it is that the makers of this show should be the least bit concerned about a couple hundred boners that are happening (or not happening) very largely on continents other than their own as an accidental result of what they've done on previous shows?

I'm also curious how anyone can know that the pie game segments are by far the most popular part of the show?



Are you sure about this? Is it possible the contestants are under contract to appear in a certain number of shows?

pieromaniac:


Millions of women go to movies, watch t.v. shows and attend concerts because they're turned on by the male entertainers. If the man was not dressed in an appealing manner or did not perform in a way they found sexually interesting they'd either stop watching, start complaining or both.

Much of the same is true about men. If actressess don't show cleavage, wear tight skirts or behave in a suggestive manner then their popularity plummets among men. Just look at the top 100 list on Twitter to confirm this is true.

It just so happens that many here like a pie in the face of a beautiful women slightly more than a tight pair of jeans or boobage. And because this form of entertainment is so extremely rare (and rarely done well) we complain loudly when it's not presented to perfection.

It's all entertainment and the driving force of mass entertainment is sex and escapism.

Men, however, mostly follow sports to live their athletic dreams (that they weren't able to personally achieve) through others and the desire to be part of something winning and dominant.

A. Nonny Moose:

If the CM models (male and female) did not originally understand that working on this show meant potentially get very messy do you think they don't understand this by now? After five months of episodes even the least intelligent of the models has to know that they may be turned into a human slime pie every week.

It seems to me that several of the female models simply hope that they are spared the humiliation for as many weeks as possible. And if they have to get messy they hope it's an innocuous powder balloon. Or a gunge balloon they can dodge.

The women like to sit and look pretty, dance a bit and play the first round of the game.

As the messy round begins the women are probably crossing their fingers and praying that one of their teammates is humiliated and not them. I imagine that the girls who end up totally slimed secretly want revenge on the girls who remained spotlessly clean!

Most of the women are probably waiting for a big (traditional) modeling contract that will never come.

Edit: I don't know the specifics of contract law in Brazil. But the basis of contract law in the U.S. is that both sides understand what they're agreeing to. If the messy segment of the show was deceptively hidden in the contract the model would most certainly have grounds to break it. I've noticed that a few of the CM women from the early episodes never returned. Why?

pie-romaniac:

"...and if it doesn't, it's somehow corrupt or at the very least inept."

-----------

I don't speak Portuguese.

However, other commenters have stated that the reason the men overwhelmingly won the messy rounds in the early episodes was because the questions favored topics of general knowledge.

Because the men were winning by such large margins the general knowledge questions were replaced with questions about music.

The women were much more competitive with the questions about music and the messiness evened out.

If this information is correct then it suggests that the producers altered the show to change the outcome. Is this corrupt?

I've watched episodes from the original Rede web site. They often start the show with an advertisement for cosmetic products. Additionally, the majority of the people they place in their very small studio audience are young women.

It's therefore not far flung to assume that the show's producers moved the show in the direction they believe appeals to their target audience of 20-something females.

And that direction meant that the women could not lose and end up humiliated every week.

I think I used 4 SC pies out of 24 for this last scene, so technically... Yes.
If Barbara from CM took 12 pies in one show I'd be fine with 2-4 being shaving cream.

And you think I'm kidding, but I have a LOT of people asking when I'm gonna do another scene with tons of shaving cream pies. I'm even starting to wonder if the inexplicably low sales for this (otherwise pretty great) new scene might be down to the lack of SC. Some folks love it!!

I'm gonna drop out of this conversation cuz it keeps going 'round and 'round in circles with both sides arguing it.

That said, I'll try to frame this in a rock band analogy:

--Let's say you're a fan of guitar-based rock bands instead of, say, mainstream pies. So your "golden age" might be the early to mid-70s. (What's the pie equivalent? The 70s with all their variety shows?)

--There are precious few guitar bands now... Just like there are precious few mainstream shows with pies in them.

--Chega Mais is like the second coming of Led Zeppelin appearing now, in the middle of One Direction and Beyonce and Taylor Swift. (And I actually dig Swifty-T but anyway...) Not just an anomaly, but an AMAZING anomaly.

--Now let's say this "Second Coming Of Zeppelin," after 3 magnificent albums, suddenly decides to release nothing but AutoTuned EDM music. With maybe one "guitar song" half-heartedly added to the end of each album.

--There will be those who say, "Well, that one guitar song is still really good," or "We were lucky to have Zep 2.0 as long as we did," or "Who cares? You can find every great guitar song ever made on YouTube for free."

--And there will be others who say, "But WHY did Zep 2.0 suddenly change everything good about their music just to appeal to teenage girls???" And they will be so angry at this fact that they won't even be able to listen to the "one guitar song per album," because it reminds them too much of what could've been.

Anyway. There's no clear answer. Other than my personal belief that Barbara Post Pie is a national treasure and her no longer getting pied makes the entire universe sad.

That's it!! Rich out!

In answer to your question, a TV show that modifies its content or format in order to appeal to more viewers isn't a corrupt TV show -- it's just a TV show. That's what TV shows do. It's not like Chega Mais started out as some beacon of purity with a perfectly fair setup and then devolved from there. It started with a formula that the producers thought would attract the most viewers. Then either the ratings declined over time, or they were never as good as the producers wanted, so they tweaked the formula to get a result they thought their principal viewership would like better. There is nothing that obliges them to pie men and women in equal measure beyond your own self-centered, fetish-based wishful thinking. You can invent all the horseshit you like about this being "unfair," but in reality, you don't care about what is fair or not, you just want the show to maintain its previous level of hot women getting pied.

The principal viewers of the show are Brazilians who watch the show for entertainment. To your point a few posts back, possibly they are getting a little sexual titillation from the attractive contestants, but I think almost none of the Brazilians watching (beyond a potential handful of Brazilian wammers) approach this show in a way that is tantamount to pornography. The show is not, nor should it be, aimed at people who don't speak the language and who skim through the show salaciously looking specifically for just the brief scenes of women getting pied. If you can't see a difference between these two groups of viewers -- if you want to say "the driving force of all mass entertainment is sex" and put every possible viewer on an even playing field -- that's your right. But don't expect anybody else to swallow that. I think even most of the other people I've offended with my posts in this thread will find your thinking on this subject matter quite naive.

No worries! I was just saying that I really do have all types of fans... And FBOW, for every "purist" who avoids SC like the plague, there's another one who loves it. Impossible to make both parties happy at once.

That said, I've personally been getting more enjoyment with using mostly (or all) real pies lately. If you do avoid SC, I think some of the new scenes will work... I mean, even if you have to turn it off at the first SC pie, you still have 10-12 pies of goodness, right??

Also it's strange you would like Combate but dislike SC in a fetish context?
I personally like the CM pies, but also I've never seen a producer (myself included) pull off that particular consistency. I daresay I WOULD buy a scene that had those kind of pies (or the DL blue & white ones).

I don't think the producers are obliged to me in any way. I don't believe I've stated any such thing. As long as the teams aren't playing for money or charity and Las Vegas isn't placing odds on the outcome the producers are free to do as they wish.

I may be upset with the outcome and express my displeasure in strong terms, and I may present strong counter arguments with the faint hope of influencing the producers, however, I understand that all television exists to sell commercials, not for my individual pleasure. The only obligation of commercial television is to make money. Everything else is art.

If the producers knew that pie-ing dwarfs shot out of a cannon flying through rings of fire over tanks of piranhas would produce million dollar ratings the show would be changed overnight.

I kindly request that you refrain from making assumptions that I cannot see the difference between people who view the show through the lens of WAM and those who view it as light Sunday evening entertainment. I argue passionately, but I know the difference.

Finally, please note that I wrote: "It's all entertainment and the driving force of mass entertainment is sex and escapism. " You left off "escapism".

Criticism,
I am sorry that I made a couple incorrect assumptions about your thinking. I guess I misunderstood the point of several of your more recent posts and assumed the worst. Like you, I "argue passionately."

Honestly, though, reading these earlier posts (especially the one quoted immediately above), it was pretty easy to get confused. There, it sounds an awfully lot like you are trying to say that the basic reason most everybody watches TV, movies, or concerts is to derive some kind of sexual pleasure out of watching the performers. At least in this one post, you are basically putting pie fetishists watching Chega Mais on the same level as anyone watching an attractive performer in any entertainment context. "It just so happens that many here like a pie in the face of a beautiful women slightly more than a tight pair of jeans or boobage" in context above certainly implies as much.

And yes, you added escapism as the other driving force behind entertainment, along with sex, but all you talked about in this post was sex. The escapism part seemed very much a tacked-on afterthought.

I also thought that two posts later, you were trying to argue that the show had become corrupt and unfairly skewed in the way it was run. Your most recent post clarifies this matter, though -- that wasn't your point at all. Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding and for my jumping to the wrong conclusion about you.

Here are a couple pictures I found from the CM Instagram page.

In the first picture several of the CM female models are nearly nude.
https://instagram.com/p/4UOgg9AjN7/

In the second picture one CM female model has her shirt almost wide open.
https://instagram.com/p/58JZcoAjAS/

I won't even link to the skimpy bikini pictures because there are quite a few.

It's true that the culture in Brazil is more uninhibited than in the U.S.

However, after looking at these pictures it's hard to argue that CM isn't overtly pushing sex to sell their show.

I never said they don't use sex to sell their show. Of course they do. Virtually all TV except for maybe CSPAN uses sex as marketing tool. I even said in one of my posts above that even many of the principal viewers in Brazil probably get some form of titillation out of the physically attractive contestants.

None of this changes my point. Just because they use sex to sell the show doesn't mean that wam fetishists who don't even speak Portugese, cruising through the show on fast forward to just catch the bits where women get pied, are comparable to the show's target audience. I know you never argue this point directly, and you deny that it's how you feel, but it sure seems to be the gist of lots of your rather ambiguous posts. The one directly above for instance -- what are you actually trying to say when you point out that the producers of the show use sex to sell the show? It sure seems like you're implying that because the show isn't "innocent" (as if any TV show could be innocent in this day and age), that it's therefore fine for us to treat it as though it is here to serve our selfish, masturbatory needs? To complain at length about women who don't -- for some mysterious reason -- seem to enjoy being humiliated on TV, and to rant about how they're not doing the job they've agreed to, even though we have no idea about what they did agree to, whether they've signed contracts or not, etc.


The above quote from you is from the first page of this thread. It pretty clearly demonstrates your feelings that wammers and non-wammers are looking for exactly the same thing from this show... which sorry, is just plain delusional.

Another of your quotes from page one of this thread:


So here you're calling the hosts inept because they fail to help facilitate the exact shot you need for your own, ahem, selfish purposes. You also specifically call out the females walking away from the camera, immediately after they've been pied, as "the highlight moments" of the show. Not the highlight moments for wammers, the highlight moments period. Those shots are so very crucial to this show, you insist, that there's no point in even bothering to put on the show without that second or two of footage. This again shows how much you've really lost perspective here.

In other posts, you say that the target audience is 20-something women and that these women would strongly prefer to see the men take the pies and for the women to stay clean (or at the very least, that this is the producers' assumption about what the target audience of young women want to see). So how can the women walking away from centerstage, faces covered in pie, possibly be the crucial "highlight moments" that are the whole point of the show? The only way you can possibly think that way is you feel that everyone is watching to satisfy the same fetishistic, masturbatory impulse as you are.

I'm only trying to hightlight that commercial television (with few exceptions) is a freak circus whose only purpose is to make make money (and keep people stupid) and that almost always mandates pushing sex (in all its many traditional and bizarre forms).

Would I like for the men to be removed from the show and the messy segment lengthened? Hell yeah! Am I not allowed to dream?

Do I think the hosts are B-level talent? Yeah. But then again I don't speak their language. Maybe they're saying really interesting things and I'm wrong.

Has Chega Mais often failed to provide a camera shot after the pie-ing? Repeatedly.

Is it not self-evident that failure to capture the pied model renders the act of pie-ing far less exciting and could therefore be called an error?

Even if you're not a wammer and only find the pie-ings funny or you like the revenge aspect failure to capture the culminating act of delivering the pie-punishment is a total buzzkill.

You said they frequently showed the model getting "a five-star pieing" and what they failed to show was the model walking away afterward (see your second quote below for confirmation). I assume by this you could see the actual act of pieing since, not being able to see the aftermath as she walked away, you went ahead and judged it a "five-star pieing." Otherwise, if they didn't show the pieing or the aftermath, how would you know how many stars to give it?

I would bet a LOT of money that almost any non-wammer wouldn't even particularly notice if they showed the pie being pushed into the model's face but then failed to show the model's face afterward as she walked back to the side of the stage. And even if someone did notice this grevous omission, I am CERTAIN they wouldn't find that this rendered the pieing "far less exciting" or deem this "a total buzzkill." Although you can't admit it, you're trying to turn "a very large majority of the viewing audience" into wammers (see the first quote below) -- maybe so you won't feel so terribly alone in this cold, cruel world.

You asked if you were not free to dream. Of course you are. Dream away, buddy. But when you try to shove your fetish-fueled dreams down the throats of all the other viewers out there, especially the 99.98% of them who are non-wammers, you should anticipate being met with some serious skepticism. And I'm here to provide that.

CNN Newsflash:
After a full year of searching, investigators are no closer to finding who the target audience for Chega Mais and its partner Domingo Legal is or what the appeal of these show's notorious pie games is to non-wammers. Scraps of potential evidence have washed up on the shore, but they could prove to be remnants of an old "Three Stooges" show.

Meanwhile, wildly speculative & divisive conspiracy theories abound. One of the more popular theories is that the producers just want to maximize profit. But, nobody has a clue as to the producers' true motives, because we couldn't find a translator.

Because many in this forum only view the edited CM videos showing the women being pied it's rather easy to believe that the males pie the ladies more aggressively and humiliatingly and this somehow equates to the sexual degradation of women.

However, upon watching full episodes the conclusion that men pies the ladies more aggressively doesn't appear to be accurate. In fact, quite often the ladies appear to pie with much greater emotion and zeal.

I've selected the (7/12) show as an example (it's regarded as one of the better pie episdoes) and found two female pie-ings of epic proportions. Then for comparison sake I've cued up the video to when these same females got their opportunity to throw pies at the men. (You can either click on my time-stamped inks or drag the button to the appropriate time in the video below). While this is not scientific proof (or even an apple to apple comparison) it may challenge the assumption that women are not only not less aggressive pie-ers but may infact be more aggressive.


Example one: Most males in this forum and on YT saw this gorgeous lady receving an epic pie-ing (70min 39sec).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukgT-OeaEk&t=70m39s

But here's the pie hit she delivered to the male contestant ten minutes prior that perhaps many here haven't seen (60min39sec).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukgT-OeaEk&t=60m39s

Please note that in the first video the lady falls backwards off the chair not as a result of the impact but to avoid/lessen the full pie messiness.

Example two. Again, many male wammers likley only saw this beauitful lady receive a very messy pie-ing, some of which ended up in her long hair (62min37sec).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukgT-OeaEk&t=62m37s

But here's how this lady delivered her pie when she won shortly thereafter (73min49sec).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukgT-OeaEk&t=73m49s


Tell me who was more aggressive, who was going more for the humiliation and degradation factor, the man or the woman?

Again this isn't definitive scientific proof. However, those who have watched only the edited videos and therefore believe that ony the women are being humiliated by physcially dominant men may want to reconsider. Perhaps the men feel they are being degraded and emasculated? Perhaps the men suffer an equal or greater psychological trauma as the women?

Hah! Pathetic humans. On my home planet of Decapodia we're born with BOTH sets of genitals so then we don't have to worry about who is humiliating & degrading whom more. When we go through our Bot Mitzvahs at age 13 (hundred), we then get to decide which set of genitalia to keep & which ones we get to throw away. Only then can a decapodian proudly declare: "I am now A MAN! (or woman, as the case may be)".

But seriously, why SET UP an obvious "battle of the sexes" in the first place?

If the show is going to have males ANYWAY, do like Combate Peru does: have male & female on both sides. And pair up male vs male & female vs female. That way, we can skip the males and go straight to the female-vs-female pieings, where we're sure to see at least ONE female pied. (Although, I've seen it too many times where, after a HALF hour of talking, the emcee or judges decide NEITHER gets to pie the other. :mad

Maybe if we pray to our various respective crustacean gods long enough
they'll create a separate all-female show & all-male show. Now wouldn't THAT be heaven.

My NEXT crazy idea was for Argentina/Brazil/Peru to set up a Ministry for the Fair & Equal Distribution of Pies to the Face & Gunge Balloons. I'm sure they've got the money for it.

Dear Mr. Criticism,

I would like to apologize. You did not deserve the extended harrangue-ing that I have given you in this thread.

I do think your viewpoint is ridiculous, only loosely related to reality, and deserves to be sharply questioned. But you countered every post I made with more of the same, and so I went on and on, replying each time, foolishly thinking I could reason with you, and I got unduly mean in the process. You're evidently lost in your dreams of a "more just, verdant, and pie-full world,"* and clearly nothing is ever going to shake you out of those. And maybe, just maybe, it's a good thing to hold on to your dreams after all. ("I know this dream, it might be crazy/But it's the only one I've got" -- Bob Dylan)

Our war of words has not done anyone a whit of good, so I am going to stop participating in it. I trust you will keep things up in my absence.

*With apologies to the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

I haven't been paying close attention to this discussion throughout this thread but with your post here - what an absolutely terrible post.

Right above you, the guy made a fairly convincing argument for whatever point he's trying to make. Kind of hard to argue with videographic proof and all.

Your response is to make no attempt to refute it, to utterly ignore it and to go on a tirade that basically amounts to you saying, "I'm smart and right and you're stupid and wrong".

Maybe you should direct that opinion you just brought forth at yourself there, if the quality of your debate has been at the same level for all of this thread. Just awful, awful stuff there.

Enigmahood,

I get what you are saying, and in your shoes, I probably would've thought the same thing. However, if you had read our very long back-and-forth argument on page 2 -- as you say you have not -- you might feel a bit differently. Believe me, it's not worth the time it would take to read and digest it. As I note above, it doesn't do anyone a whit of good, and I regret spending any time on it at all. After reading it, you'd still probably feel I had been unduly mean to the guy, which I admitted I had been above, but you might have to admit something else too.

Mr. Criticism does support his argument very nicely in his post at the top of page 3. Your'e right about that. I only wish the guy had been able to argue so clearly and lucidly against what I was actually accusing him of in my earlier posts. Please note that immediately above he is arguing against a point no one has raised in this discussion. Nobody said the men were more vicious in pieing the women than the women were in pieing the men. I believe one person (Johnny Yen) did comment that some of the hits on the women seemed mean-spirited, but there was no charge of gender inequality in the viciousness of the pie hits whatsoever, except those made by Mr. Criticism himself, who previously argued much the same thing as he does above in his most recent post.

And this is all only tangentially related to what I was arguing with Mr. Criticism about anyway. I did try to use logical argument (and I used it at great length) to refute what I felt were his out-to-lunch comments on a mainstream Brazilian TV show that he is critiquing as though it were made for the pleasure of pie fetishists. Alternately, he seems to think that most viewers are pie fetishists in all but name; at one point he says that a vast majority of the viewing audience would prefer to see attractive women pied over seeing men pied, elsewhere he states that there is no point to this (mainstream Brazilian) TV show if they're not going to show certain specific aftermath camera shots of the women after they've been pied. He even said at one point that he had some small hopes that his comments on the show would influence its producers ("I may present strong counter arguments with the faint hope of influencing the producers").

Pointing these things out only caused him to dig himself deeper in his trenches. His latest post totally dodges the issues I've been raising in my previous posts; it throws up a smokescreen and presents the illusion that he is arguing this ongoing debate in a logical, straightforward manner, when in fact he is sidetracking and dismantling a sitting-duck argument that no one has even made here.

As a result, my most recent post was me throwing my hands in the air, finally having realized what a massive waste of time this whole argument has been (most others who were following this thread surely realized this long, long ago). In any event, I'm reproducing another part of my post that you skipped in your quotation, since it showcases a softer side of my personality.

The video-to-word ratio has really gone downhill in this thread

The pie segment on Chega Mais may be in immediate jeopardy (as many here feared) according to this exchange on their FB web site.

(Translated into English).

The viewer writes:

The interview with artists is very long, only if sustentaria with guests very interesting. Break the rhythm of the programme. It would be more cool an interview more short, with more games between the models, keeping the that already exist, that are great. It seems that the programme engrena only when the interview ends.

Chega Mais replies:

Thanks for the opinion, Peter! It is always very important to hear from you right there in the house. We are already working to have a format even more dynamic in the framework ' in hot water with the divas ".

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"In hot water with the divas"?

Will they be scrapping the pie segment and presenting an entirely new show?

Or will they simply add a "hot water" segment?

It has been about a month since this exchange. If this change is coming it might be very soon.

Be prepared to say goodbye to the best pie-ing segment ever seen on television.