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"Has UMD had its day? Debate."
Love you, too
tengallon said: Yes, it has.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
While i disagree on the savoury in particular, i do agree in general for the other stuff. this is, as TheSpecialist said, a very underrated point. there's an increasing amount of stuff over the past couple years that at least straddles the line of 'is this really WAM or some other fetish thinly veiled as WAM?' and probably a few pieces that are far enough on the other side that you cant even see the line.
some have mentioned the idea of a gross button (similar to likes) or some such mechanism. i think there is some worth there to consider. perhaps a duplication of the like system but instead (for lack of a better description) dislikes and if a piece of content receives a certain amount of 'dislikes', it's then up for review. In combination with that, better usage of UMDFetish could be had with content considered as not within 'reasonable' scope of UMD being transferred to UMDFetish instead. of course, what would be considered 'reasonable' would need to be a matter of discussion with MM and the UMD community.
on the discussing of restriction 'access' to models to subscribers ala Onlyfans. again, may be some merit there, though unlike others i would keep forum posts and thread as full public access (completely restricting public interaction would likely do harm to overall activity) and just restrict more personal ways of communication (wall posts, PMs and etc). possibly including requiring all comments on pictures on profiles of female members and/or models to be listed as pending needing approval by moderators before they appear. not sure how technically feasible it would be with how UMD is built in the backend but it's an idea at least.
MuddyOtter said:
Regarding the "extreme" end of content, I feel differently about it depending on the motivation and the intended audience. I pretty much can't get into watching stuff that I wouldn't willingly be there doing, so self-producing models who come across as genuinely into it, or stuff shared as fun challenges/forfeits among peers feels fine to me. But some of the stuff that's pitched as degrading with hired women models for the straight male gaze, that's where I get the ick a little.
Regarding the "extreme" end of content, I feel differently about it depending on the motivation and the intended audience. I pretty much can't get into watching stuff that I wouldn't willingly be there doing, so self-producing models who come across as genuinely into it, or stuff shared as fun challenges/forfeits among peers feels fine to me. But some of the stuff that's pitched as degrading with hired women models for the straight male gaze, that's where I get the ick a little.
I will second this post as the qualifier to my above response on the topic. when it's models who are willingly doing the stuff and find their own fun out of it (Scarlett from Slimed Models comes to mind). When it's clearly geared towards a more "hardcore" style then leans more on humiliating (and not in a funny, hammy acted way) and degrading is some of the stuff that's really questionable.
I actually like the increase in girl-on-girl WAM. I, for one, have no interested in co-ed WAM and especially nothing involving sexual acts with a penis. if i want to see a dick, all i have to do is pull down my pants and look down. part of it is that a fair amount of co-ed stuff seems to end up like generic co-ed porn that you can find anywhere these days, just with mess.
Is there still some life in UMD, yes i think there is. Is there potential for improvement? also yes.
It's really sad to read so many negative views.
The sum total of UMD is what everyone puts in.
I like lots of content, go mad occasionally and I try to remember that I have a mouse which clicks.
If you don't like something, move on.
After all, UMD is my, "Happy Place!"
I've had wonderful online friendships.
And met amazing people in real life, at "Splunches!"
Afterwards daydreams really have come true.
By always trying to be respectful and willing to learn.
If we didn't have UMD, someone would have to reinvent it.
Thanks, Messmaster.
Peter
The sum total of UMD is what everyone puts in.
I like lots of content, go mad occasionally and I try to remember that I have a mouse which clicks.
If you don't like something, move on.
After all, UMD is my, "Happy Place!"
I've had wonderful online friendships.
And met amazing people in real life, at "Splunches!"
Afterwards daydreams really have come true.
By always trying to be respectful and willing to learn.
If we didn't have UMD, someone would have to reinvent it.
Thanks, Messmaster.
Peter
Splash me
Slapstick-Cowboy said: I've been on and off this site for the past 12 years, yes it still has its use both as a kink community and social network site but it is slowly becoming a bit more tackie with more and more video's and posts of a sexual nature, I think we need to be more careful as anyone of a younger age who joins this site can easily view such material.
Content with sexual imagery needs to be pay to view only, or in a XXX section. There was talk on another forum about why we don't have a UK group page and a US page and a Europe page rather than it all being in one but thats maybe a debate for another time.
Content with sexual imagery needs to be pay to view only, or in a XXX section. There was talk on another forum about why we don't have a UK group page and a US page and a Europe page rather than it all being in one but thats maybe a debate for another time.
It clearly states in the T&C that this is an adult site. There is even a warning about adult content. That is not gonna stop some kid from accessing the site. Just like it won't stop them from using their parents ID to get in here. Unless you want MM to go to the lengths of the Chinese government and use facial identity software to make sure the person using the site matches the ID on file. That is one of the ways the Chinese government is enforcing the number of hours kids play video games.
Everything was better when you were younger (one of the most recurring cliches ever).
So, I would say, enjoy it while it lasts... it will be way worse in 10 years
So, I would say, enjoy it while it lasts... it will be way worse in 10 years
furfg said: The internet has ruined anything authentic
I think AI will kill anything authentic that was left on the internet.
They said that on social media everyone needs to be "perfect", well i think that will go on overdrive with AI. And a lot of people will loose ability to appreciate or see the beauty in non perfect things, as (nearly) all real things are not perfect.
Also, the public might loose their ability to think for themselves, be critical about what is presented or the ability to base (or change) their opinion about something as result of a longer line of thoughts.
At least for me: My best thoughts/insights about anything were not the first that came to mind but the ones that evolved after thorough overthinking (or i had to drag out of an obscure corner, haha) and giving that process some time.
I fear a lot of people will not take that effort anymore, and just follow "what AI said".
But to get back on topic: I think that times change, and tastes, likes or preferences (or whatever you would like to call it). If UMD would still be only about slapstick and clothed pieing (just to mention something random, i was not online in the early days of UMD) i wouldn't have stuck around. And communities need some critical mass to keep existing, and to maintain that it needs to evolve.
Concern (as with everything in the internet)/is that commerce should not take over (enshitification) but i'm confident that Messmaster will not let that happen with UMD.
furfg said: AI is awesome. I will never get the AI hate. It is legit the greatest technology I've seen come about in my life time.
I have to disagree with you there. If you have any artistic talent or desire to make your career in an artistic field AI is not your friend. Studios are already looking for ways to only pay people for their image and likeness for an 8 hour session and let AI do the rest. People have already used AI to make a stand up special from the late George Carlin, his daughter has been fighting against that as they had no rights to the material they used to train the AI. People training AI are straight up stealing content to do it. Marvel has already started replacing artists with their latest movie poster for the new Fantastic 4 movie being all done in AI. This is some of the reason AI gets the hate. The people with the money don't value the people with the talent and feel that replacing them with AI is acceptable.
Pasta said: No disrespect to anyone, but I am tired of seeing the same small pool of UK models filming for almost everyone. With Honour and Satine having retired, that pool is even smaller now.
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me
). But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
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UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Film it and they will come.
Platypus539 said: UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Nailed it!!!!
Platypus539 said: UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
This
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RevSlymsford said:
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
A rule that I try to follow is not having a single model appear more than once in a set of 10 episodes. That's mostly a me thing, because I don't want it to look like I'm leaning on any one model too much.
This year, I've had 5 shoots scheduled. Only one show up. If they bother to cancel, the reason is usually a death in the family. I joke with the people who know I do this that apparently, being related to someone scheduled to model may be hazardous to your health.
I've got a good 6 months of videos shot, but they are all guys who have appeared recently. Effectively two solid months of consistent no-shows are draining my reserve episodes.
Dr. of Splatterology
RevSlymsford said:
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me ).
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
Pasta said: No disrespect to anyone, but I am tired of seeing the same small pool of UK models filming for almost everyone. With Honour and Satine having retired, that pool is even smaller now.
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me
). But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I'm pretty happy with this site as a whole. Something nobody has mentioned yet is that on the tech side all the functions - which must be more complex than many imagine integrating both a forum and online shopping and huge repository of videos - consistently work and the site is well designed, which is still not always a given elsewhere even the 2020s.
There are still plenty of meaningful social interactions through the forum and DM functions. Whilst there are a few creeps and badgering/entitled individuals on here the general level of courtesy and civility is far, far higher than [mainstream social media site of your choice containing a firehose of curated ragebait]. Mods actually do respond to most issues.
The one feature I would like to see is to be able to pay a subscription to enable sitewide streaming of everyone's content rather than just a specific store. Maybe this would be controversial amongst producers though.
There are still plenty of meaningful social interactions through the forum and DM functions. Whilst there are a few creeps and badgering/entitled individuals on here the general level of courtesy and civility is far, far higher than [mainstream social media site of your choice containing a firehose of curated ragebait]. Mods actually do respond to most issues.
The one feature I would like to see is to be able to pay a subscription to enable sitewide streaming of everyone's content rather than just a specific store. Maybe this would be controversial amongst producers though.
Pasta said:
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for. But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it! Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, but which nevertheless threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
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RevSlymsford said:
Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, which threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Pasta said:
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for. But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it! Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, which threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Oh, that sounds like a stressful weekend. At least you were able to save Saturday, so we still get to see some of the stuff you had planned. Fingers crossed for better luck on your next dates.
Thanks Pasta
As Rod Whistestar always says "For the first 24 hours after a shoot with problems we always vow 'never again' and then within a week, we're planning the next one" and he's so right
As Rod Whistestar always says "For the first 24 hours after a shoot with problems we always vow 'never again' and then within a week, we're planning the next one" and he's so right
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STICKYFINGAHZZZ said: 4. UMD changed its rules and few years back, understandably, but now people are too paranoid to upload content because they don't want to give the website their name, address, and a copy of their photo ID
You can upload content without an ID just nothing with nudity.
I think it's fine. I mean, I don't know where else I'm going to go on the internet to find a site catering specifically to the fetish of WAM. Might not be seeing as much content as I used to, but then again after 20+ years of being into this, you've kind of seen it all, and it gets a little harder and harder to find stuff to live up to your expectations. Some producers and models do less, some disappear...then we get new producers and models. I'm not going to complain, I'm grateful it's still around.
Not a producer, but as a commissioner of art from artists I can vouche for this. Sometimes I find myself trying out new artists, and I find myself asking them for updates continuously after they've been paid in full "Have you started yet?" and they give me some sort of excuse or "Soon!" and then weeks go by and I ask again and it's the same thing...then weeks after they've finally completed it I'm asking "Have you shipped my art yet?" After that, I often find myself avoiding new artists and returning to the same artists I've worked with who finished and delivered art in a timely manner and didn't bullshit me...
RevSlymsford said
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Not a producer, but as a commissioner of art from artists I can vouche for this. Sometimes I find myself trying out new artists, and I find myself asking them for updates continuously after they've been paid in full "Have you started yet?" and they give me some sort of excuse or "Soon!" and then weeks go by and I ask again and it's the same thing...then weeks after they've finally completed it I'm asking "Have you shipped my art yet?" After that, I often find myself avoiding new artists and returning to the same artists I've worked with who finished and delivered art in a timely manner and didn't bullshit me...
#DontLookUp
kinkywam123 said: I've been a member on and off for a number of years within this community, however, the last couple of years has, for me personally, seen UMD die a death. All the major WAM "models" have either left, don't post regularly, are involved in drama which inevitably makes its way to forums, or some other reason. Whilst not for me admittedly, half the site is bombarded with AI/synthetic images.
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
Haven't been around as long as you maybe can't tell but I think the landscape has changed with age and promotions but the ai stuff if definitely overwhelming at times
Paint with play and surrender
Curiouspaints said: Haven't been around as long as you maybe can't tell but I think the landscape has changed with age and promotions but the ai stuff if definitely overwhelming at times
You can easily get rid of it if you don't want to see it.
Go to the Messy Forum (because the controls in question don't show here in Non-WAM).
At the top there are three pull-downs. First one is the gender selection. The next has "Synthetic OK" or "Natural". Change it to "Natural". Hey-presto, no more AI wam (unless someone doesn't tag properly, in which case report it and the mod team will tag it correctly).
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
This.
HappyCamper said: Hi! UMD'er for 26.5 years,here!
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
Being here that long should get you a special badge or something on profile
Paint with play and surrender
My bias is going to be different and needed imo because is much of this commentary is cis-het.
I think OP had a point that the site has peaked, if you're talking 10 years ago. I wouldn't agree it was better in the 2000s.
Site mod are pushing back on female harassment not being unabated, fair. I can't really say why it seems like there's fewer active women users now.
What I can say is that there were a large number of cute men who vanished here between 2020-2025. At least one who logs in but stopped meeting up and such told me he'd a bad experience with a user--the same thing that happened to me, altho I also was then bullied and harassed out of the community for over a year. The trust isn't really there, if it ever was.
It seemed like it was. I lurked for an early UMD decade before making a profile, because a lot of older men are creeps (I was creeped on hard when I first got active).
If you look at the user videos uploaded, they kind of end 10 years ago. But since I mostly only had YT for male wam content before/after (unsorted and much of it unwatchable) UMD's video gallery in the early-mid 2010s was like a huge explosion in quality and availability. And the community seemed larger (though this may be a Rashomon effect).
So this is perception, because filming quality was not better 10 years ago. But now, it seems like most of the wam itself is low quality. I have so little interest in a tiny trickle of something on someone's head, and even in the 2000s found it tiresome, shown in a weird closeup of their neck. Most of these videos do not interest me.
People aren't putting themselves out there as much except in paid store, but there's more users (altho it's unclear what the active ratio is).
I love artists but the AI too is an absolute abomination--it just seems like either a vocal minority or a healthy majority totally hate it. I haven't found one AI pic I like, altho that'll probably change some day soon.
As someone else pointed out, the messy forum is a pump and dump of ads for videos. The forums are dead without discussion, and messy forum is for content.
I absolutely adore RevSlymfords male models, some of the sexiest guys to ever do wam, but they're not active here just like most models now. But WAM's not actually their thing, which is fine, and they're also non-English fluent (we never seemed to have a good non-English community on here). Still, no discussion, little reason to hang around the forums.
I used to post polls to provoke discussion when I had new photos or a video to show.
From personal experience, there's too many psychopathic users. I find it odd and perplexing, since it would seem being denied and afraid sexually as adolescents would increase our empathy. Guess not. Just anecdotally this site or our fetish pulls in people with absolutely no respect for others' boundaries at a high rate. I think the moderators do a good job of catching the fakes, and some of the blatant folks, but there's others who slip through the cracks. It's hard, I get it.
But there's others to an extent I think a lot of users just blatantly don't trust putting honest and revealing opinions and content on here because the internet's still the Wild West without as much fun as it used to be.
Also, Gen Z doesn't have a community attitude on here overall, thought most people seem to have disengaged. The claim that Gen Z doesn't fuck with wam is not true. They're using X and Instagram and TikTok for wam, in that order. A huge number of Gen Z is aware of wam (not necessarily by name) whereas older generations outside this group have never heard of it. The young wammers have little engagement on here though. It's like gay bars. They're mostly kept up by millennials despite being in our 30s and now 40s. Few young queer men patronize gay bars (though they still like dance clubs).
Finding friends. I always try to send a friendly first message and if people are interested they're interested, and if not, fine. I got blocked by a model who I was his exact type at the time, and we are living right near each other. Nothing says you're disposable like arbitrarily blocking someone in the same tiny, isolated minority, altho I've now had to use the block feature myself.
I'd wager the site peaked around 2014-2016, like most of civilization 
I think OP had a point that the site has peaked, if you're talking 10 years ago. I wouldn't agree it was better in the 2000s.
Site mod are pushing back on female harassment not being unabated, fair. I can't really say why it seems like there's fewer active women users now.
What I can say is that there were a large number of cute men who vanished here between 2020-2025. At least one who logs in but stopped meeting up and such told me he'd a bad experience with a user--the same thing that happened to me, altho I also was then bullied and harassed out of the community for over a year. The trust isn't really there, if it ever was.
It seemed like it was. I lurked for an early UMD decade before making a profile, because a lot of older men are creeps (I was creeped on hard when I first got active).
If you look at the user videos uploaded, they kind of end 10 years ago. But since I mostly only had YT for male wam content before/after (unsorted and much of it unwatchable) UMD's video gallery in the early-mid 2010s was like a huge explosion in quality and availability. And the community seemed larger (though this may be a Rashomon effect).
So this is perception, because filming quality was not better 10 years ago. But now, it seems like most of the wam itself is low quality. I have so little interest in a tiny trickle of something on someone's head, and even in the 2000s found it tiresome, shown in a weird closeup of their neck. Most of these videos do not interest me.
People aren't putting themselves out there as much except in paid store, but there's more users (altho it's unclear what the active ratio is).
I love artists but the AI too is an absolute abomination--it just seems like either a vocal minority or a healthy majority totally hate it. I haven't found one AI pic I like, altho that'll probably change some day soon.
As someone else pointed out, the messy forum is a pump and dump of ads for videos. The forums are dead without discussion, and messy forum is for content.
I absolutely adore RevSlymfords male models, some of the sexiest guys to ever do wam, but they're not active here just like most models now. But WAM's not actually their thing, which is fine, and they're also non-English fluent (we never seemed to have a good non-English community on here). Still, no discussion, little reason to hang around the forums.
I used to post polls to provoke discussion when I had new photos or a video to show.
From personal experience, there's too many psychopathic users. I find it odd and perplexing, since it would seem being denied and afraid sexually as adolescents would increase our empathy. Guess not. Just anecdotally this site or our fetish pulls in people with absolutely no respect for others' boundaries at a high rate. I think the moderators do a good job of catching the fakes, and some of the blatant folks, but there's others who slip through the cracks. It's hard, I get it.
But there's others to an extent I think a lot of users just blatantly don't trust putting honest and revealing opinions and content on here because the internet's still the Wild West without as much fun as it used to be.
Also, Gen Z doesn't have a community attitude on here overall, thought most people seem to have disengaged. The claim that Gen Z doesn't fuck with wam is not true. They're using X and Instagram and TikTok for wam, in that order. A huge number of Gen Z is aware of wam (not necessarily by name) whereas older generations outside this group have never heard of it. The young wammers have little engagement on here though. It's like gay bars. They're mostly kept up by millennials despite being in our 30s and now 40s. Few young queer men patronize gay bars (though they still like dance clubs).
Finding friends. I always try to send a friendly first message and if people are interested they're interested, and if not, fine. I got blocked by a model who I was his exact type at the time, and we are living right near each other. Nothing says you're disposable like arbitrarily blocking someone in the same tiny, isolated minority, altho I've now had to use the block feature myself.
I'd wager the site peaked around 2014-2016, like most of civilization
I agree with the opinion that different generations use the internet in different ways. People, like me, who were adolescents when internet became available for everyone started participating in fora, because the social media simply didn't exist then. We learned to use them and have a food time. Younger people that activily started using internet when social media were there, use these and meet their friends (and make new) there. Probably they see fora as old fashioned and they feel they don't fit in the (generally speaking) older folks on the fora. So i think that is one of the reasons why not so much younger people join fora like UMD.
I'm also active on a dutch forum for electronics. See the same thing there also. Most of the active participating people are a bit older. Some young folks find the forum by search engines when the have a question about repairing something or have an idea they want to realize. They drop their question, expect a fast and simple answer without putting too much effort in themselves (unfortunately, electronics is not something you learn or get to understand without investing time and getting some tools) and don't return when either their question is answered or they find it too hard. It happens not often younger people stay and become active participants.
I personally don't like to talk about generations so much. To me, it feels like putting people in boxes because of their year of birth and assuming everyone of a certain generation is the same. That's not true of course, and i think "bashing" younger generations will not make them feel particularly welcome when dropping by. There are differences by age in everything, as there always have been and will be.
I don't know how UMD was as community 10-20 years ago, but for a straight guy there are not so many female users who are open for contact and are not producers. Would be fun if there were more, but the reason is obvious: Women are very cautions for good reasons, if active at all. The messy forum contains mostly store plugs indeed, and less casual discussions.
I'm also active on a dutch forum for electronics. See the same thing there also. Most of the active participating people are a bit older. Some young folks find the forum by search engines when the have a question about repairing something or have an idea they want to realize. They drop their question, expect a fast and simple answer without putting too much effort in themselves (unfortunately, electronics is not something you learn or get to understand without investing time and getting some tools) and don't return when either their question is answered or they find it too hard. It happens not often younger people stay and become active participants.
I personally don't like to talk about generations so much. To me, it feels like putting people in boxes because of their year of birth and assuming everyone of a certain generation is the same. That's not true of course, and i think "bashing" younger generations will not make them feel particularly welcome when dropping by. There are differences by age in everything, as there always have been and will be.
I don't know how UMD was as community 10-20 years ago, but for a straight guy there are not so many female users who are open for contact and are not producers. Would be fun if there were more, but the reason is obvious: Women are very cautions for good reasons, if active at all. The messy forum contains mostly store plugs indeed, and less casual discussions.
As someone who was once very active here, if UMD has had its day then it's a victim of it's own success. WAM is much more accessible and less underground/stigmatized than it's ever been and it's now possible to form community with people on both a lot of other online platforms as well as in real life. If I want to post about WAM I don't need to do it on this site and this site only anymore. If I want to meet up with people I don't need this site either.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
sororia said: As someone who was once very active here, if UMD has had its day then it's a victim of it's own success. WAM is much more accessible and less underground/stigmatized than it's ever been and it's now possible to form community with people on both a lot of other online platforms as well as in real life. If I want to post about WAM I don't need to do it on this site and this site only anymore. If I want to meet up with people I don't need this site either.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
This is possibly the truest thing I read so far. The fact is, the secret is out. WAM is a kink and not really as underground as it once was. People are creating their own lil pocket dimensions on the internet and in real life so it doesn't make much sense to deal with the headaches that occasionally come with this forum. It makes sense and as time progresses, people are going to find themselves feeling more and more disenfranchised if they feel their concerns or wants are not being addressed or heard. Thus they log in less and less or in this case, carve out their own lil section on the internet and go underground.
Conversely, I get trying to be welcoming to all wammers and fetishes, but I do feel there was a much different atmosphere 10-15 years ago.
Does it mean UMD had its day? Depends. As Sororia stated, it's got it's uses. Keeping up with new producers, Keeping in touch with fans, Networking, all come to mind. There is sometimes a discussion to be had but mostly repeats of previous topics discussed a million times on here before over the years past so it is understandable if people feel deja vu if they been on here longer than 5 years.
As for all the other things? I dunno. I felt that this forum was more effective without the store attached to it and people could just hangout and talk but maybe that's my age showing. I am a fan of simple and maybe that's the problem is it has gotten way too complicated for people to just come here to enjoy what they want. In any case, the forum I am sure will march on as it always has. How many people who are truly satisfied in future years with it will be a question for a later time.
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
I wouldn't say it's had it's day completely. I just think it's going through a dry patch. I get that there's a lot of competition from sites like Instagram and OnlyFans for messy content but none of them offer much when it comes to community and meeting fellow sploshers.
TBH, I generally only use this site to arrange meets when I'm travelling, or find out if any guys are coming to my city. I occasionally have a browse for some messy videos or pics. Responses to meet requests can vary. Sometimes I can get loads of responses and sometimes get nada. There's no rhyme or reason to it.
While the site might not be as prevalent as it used to be, I don't think it will ever go away.
TBH, I generally only use this site to arrange meets when I'm travelling, or find out if any guys are coming to my city. I occasionally have a browse for some messy videos or pics. Responses to meet requests can vary. Sometimes I can get loads of responses and sometimes get nada. There's no rhyme or reason to it.
While the site might not be as prevalent as it used to be, I don't think it will ever go away.
Clearly not! Just have a look at the vibrant debate and engagement going on three pages above my head!
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Auntie Liz said: Clearly not! Just have a look at the vibrant debate and engagement going on three pages above my head!
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Yes, me too.
If you compare UMD with mainstream social media, and bear in mind the nature of the site, I think we're a good place with good values. Peter
Splash me
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