Username, that's one of the most honest and up front posts I've ever seen on here. Thanks for being a supportive unicorn, lol.

I think there's a lot more that could be added to what you said, but, as a straight guy that has come more out of the lurker stage recently (like this week), know you aren't alone in your thoughts. WAM and UMD has the same purposes and effects for me...enjoy the content and get a little tingle down there, and then get motivated to go buy a bunch of supplies and turn yourself (or, if you're lucky, someone else) into a messy blob. However, just know that, while it may not be as drastic for me, I feel the pain of your unwanted, inappropriate messages. Thankfully, the magic of the internet is that you can just ignore them .

I've found the best way to talk to girls on here and in the mystical real world about WAM is to just be a real, honest person. While on here, since we may have the common ground already established of being a Wammer, it may go towards that aspect sooner, but the concept of just being a nice person can really go a long way towards making mess with another person happen.

Just my two cents...thanks for your post!

It's off-topic, but I wanna know more about the threesomes and the cutting and the blood play (!!!), cuz chicks never tell me about that stuff themselves.

I don't know where to start anymore. Just.. off of the top of my head:

I've been into getting pied since I discovered sex. Sorry to tell you cynics, but we "unicorns" exist.

But what a pain in the ass it is, at least sometimes. That's an entirely separate topic (pro tip: you think coming out of the pie closet to a woman is tough? Try it with a boyfriend. OMFG, disaster, at least for me)

No pics on my profile?
"Pics or it didn't happen!"

Pics?
"Show me your face? Show me your tits! Meet me in NYC! Meet me in Chicago! Wear white jeans for me! Pie yourself on Skype for me!" Umm..... block, block, block, block, block...

Fake pics, cartoons, etc?
"You must be male. Girls (AHEM, women, thank you, I'm > 18) who love to get pied don't exist".

Also, pie or revealing pics?
"I will pie you and f*** you, you'll love it, call me (555)-xxx-xxxx"

Arrive online to check messages and the forums? Chats like:
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"
"Hi do you pie guys?"

JESUS F***!!!!, ALREADY, STOP!

Yeah. I check in to see if there's anything new, or to ogle some of the beautiful sexy pied pics, or to connect with some of the very cool, very nice, people. I'm not ready to abandon UMD (yet) but that's only because I visit here on my own gorram terms (and not yours).

But it's not worth the headache and grief and annoyance of posting real pics, or real anything. It's safer, and to be honest much more fun, to post provocative, fantasy pictures and create a pie-in-the-face persona that's very me, but only one facet of the intricately-shaped jewel that is the whole me; the facet that belongs on UMD and no-where else.

Godddddddd-bless! the women and producers who post real photos. Great! But that's not for me. It can't be, and it won't be.

Anyway, I love (LOVE!) getting pied. And I know other women who love (and I mean LOVE!) it. You don't have to believe me, and I don't expect you to. And I don't care whether you do or do not. That's on you, bub, not on me.

And this idea that women don't have fetishes or fantasies (or, at least, have a low probability of some such)? HELLO, Nancy Friday anyone? And that is WAAAY way before my time. How about Violet Blue? She's more recent. No? Or, lesseee... Christine Love? No? Not her either? Hmmm.... maybe the problem here isn't female pie in the face and other WAM fetishists, but is more erotic-edumacational and things...

Sorry to sound so hot. That wasn't my intention. But it just GRINDS my ass to still be having this freshman-year-college-debate about female fetish/sexuality.

Yes, we do exist.

Thank you Username for such an eloquent post.

Thank you for that eloquent, and spot-on, post, Username.

Wow....AnnaLee; what another great post on the topic!
This is the conversation I originally hoped would get started
Great to know women like you really do exist!
I feel like the M&M's that meet Santa and they both pass out because they found out they both really do exist!

Username, AnnaLee and Pie Princess, thank you so much for coming forward.
I know AT LEAST two women (neither of whom are on here) who also get off on being pied. One, my friend Stephanie, says that as well as getting thoroughly trashed she loves the feeling of the crust sliding down her face. These ladies really DO exist
Happy hunting guys!

Anna Lee said: "...erotic-edumacational and things..."

(and see my earlier comment on female fetishism " rare but not non-existent..")

I did! To which I implicitly hat-tipped when I said "And this idea that women don't have fetishes or fantasies (or, at least, have a low probability of some such)?" The last part is an ack to you & others who ack that we can be as bent as you males.

I disagree, based on published studies from the 60s through the present, that it's rare. I agree that it's not non-existent (obviously!).

I imply from your post, though, that you might really be saying that the *expression* of a fetish or kink is rare, from women. And, my comment to that is because it's a whole 'nother dealio for women to express ourselves sexually than it is for men.

Hi!! Sorry I'm a bit late to this party, but genuine lady WAM fetishist here, checking in!

(And sorry I don't have time to write a long, eloquent post about myself, though I'm very glad to see some of my favorite gals seem to have this well covered!)

Female wammers exist, I think they just don't post here as often as the men do, for a multitude of reasons. But we are certainly real and out there!!! I have had a pie and slime fetish for as long as I can remember, still do, and still WAM regularly and enjoy it purely for myself.

Anna Lee: Cool, and yes, that's generally what I was getting at...but my last comment was not really meant for YOU but for the other posters who doubted this (sorry if that wasn't made clear)...as for "studies you've read".(asserting the commonality of fetishism in females)*..I would be keen on reading these, as my research does not confirm your claim (and I do wish it did!)....feel free to send me references via PM any time that you find these....thanks.

* we should distinguish between sexual 'fantasies' and sexual fetishes; most every girl I've know intimately (and there were more than average, I'll wager) expressed some sexual fantasy to me at some point...but, as I was sensitive to fetishes, I was always on the look out for signs of fetishism in my girlfriends...only two showed overt signs (of course, they might have been shy or reticent) and with one I'm not sure if it was sexual, at all, or just a plain fetish (in the general sense of a 'magical object')...the other gf seemed to have an obsession (perhaps saliromania).

Nah, you can find 'em pretty easily, Google around for it. And, if I think of one/find one that's really pertinent, I'm happy to send the links!


Ohh yeahhhhh.... good point. I clearly conflated the two. I think I'm thinking about **fantasy** as opposed to **fetish** or **kink**. However, that said, the F:M ratio at the fetishy-club is pretty high (when I've been, which is infrequent and also on a "theme night", so YMMV). I know that it's a self-selecting audience there, but it is an interesting indicator that there are plenty of females who kink. ALSO, I wonder: in these studies that report rarity of female fetish, whether the sample of subjects included many women who were just too afraid to come out with it, and admit to having a fetish or kink, even in a "safe" environment of scientific study?

Something kinda interesting about this question is how it's phrased as women wanting to get messy rather than see other people messy or get other people messy. I think a lot of the straight guys here are very much into the visual and "giving" rather than "taking" so it's kinda funny how dudes are always asking about women who want to "take". Maybe, some women want to watch too?

I asked a specific question for specific answers........ I would appreciate it if you don't like the question or attempt to twist the question, please create your own post.
Also if you intend to create creepy posts please stay away!
I see one already.
Thanks,
MD

I think a lot of people, male and female, would shy away from the word "fetish" simply because it implies that you're taking a specialized interest a little too far.

For instance, WAM is a fetish if:
(a) It has replaced the typical sexual behavior of your chosen gender/sexual preference, to the point that you can't get off without it.
(b) You choose a partner/are attracted to a person based more upon his/her/their/xyr willingness to partake in WAM than upon emotional or physical attraction.

Whereas WAM is a kink if it turns you on, but you're still happy to engage in "conventional" sex, and it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for you if a short- or long-term partner isn't that into it.

There are a lot of people, male and female, who might fantasize about getting pied. They might indulge in it regularly. They might like to get pied before, during and/or after sex. But there are relatively few people who can't reach orgasm unless pies are involved.

That's a good point. I will say, however, that of the 15-20 true wammer women I've chatted with online (only about half of whom had predominant pie interests as opposed to other forms of mess), all but one said they were a lot more interested in getting messed up themselves than either a) messing up a partner or b) watching someone else get messy. Some of them went so far as to say it would actually be a turn-off to mess up a partner, even if that partner WANTED to be messed up. Others send they would indulge a partner by messing him/her up if the partner really wanted/needed that, but they had no active desire to do that themselves. A couple of them actively liked the idea of tit for tat messiness with a partner, but still wanted most of the mess to end up on them. I was kind of fascinated by why this tendency was so predominent among the female wammers I talked with (not saying they are representative of female wammers as a whole, but this certainly seemed like a strong tendency among the ones who frequented WAMChat). When I asked them about it, the large majority tended to attribute it to them falling on the submissive side of the D/S spectrum. I don't want to draw too many conclusions from this, as (for all you research hounds out there) my sample was definitely not statistically significant and was undoubtedly drawn from a pre-skewed pool. But it is interesting how consistent these responses were among them.

There's a certain wonderful female wammer among us who has disclosed privately to me an interesting variant on this preference, but as that was in a private talk, I don't want to spill the beans on it here. She is very likely reading this thread, though, and if she wants to tell you about it herself, she can do so.

Meanwhile, as far as watching WAM goes, some of the WAMChat women I talked with did enjoy that, but they largely tended to say they would always imagine themselves in the place of the woman getting messed up in the video. For this reason, even though these women all self-identified as straight (or in a few cases, bisexual) they tended to much more enjoy seeing women get messed up rather than men -- because it was easier to mentally put themselves in the women's place.

Where did you find these 15-2 women?

I met almost all of them at the WAMChat site (defunct as of about 1.5 to 2 years ago). And not all at once, not by a long shot. I'm talking over the course of 10-15 years. Not sure if the site was around THAT long, and some of the earliest ones I chatted with definitely came from other sources, including Yahoo Special Interest Groups (discontinued about a decade ago). I found almost none of them at the UMD, which most female wammers find far too hostile to venture into as more than lurkers. I'm grateful for the brave ones who do show up here though!

It's interesting. I don't really care to see men get pied (with rare exception), but if my bf was into it as much as I am (or close to it), I'd absolutely love to pie him! It's a function of the relationship, to me. I'd love to see him pied, in part because I know the "revenge" would be epic - and that sets me a-quiver. So, it's very contextual. On one hand, I'd be into it because making my partner happy is erotic to me. On the other hand, the act of being "impish" means I get it back, and how!, and that means I get clobbered with cream! Which is, uh, you know, I'll be in mah bunk....

I don't know what it was about the Y!SIG, but it felt safer for [F]'s there than here. I met so many pie-women online, at a time when I was figuring out whether I was a freak or not, and so many who were into the sensual, erotic nature of pie in the face, slime, gunge, play. There used to be an #irc channel as well, on undernet, that was fabulous.

OK, "so many" is like six. But, to me at the time, that felt like an army.

I am not brave. I hide behind a cartoon and layers of interwebs obfuscation.

MessyDare Girl:

Golly...none of my posts were intentionally insulting (in any personal way). to anyone...if you wanted to insult me, maybe a PM would have sufficed....but since you publicly challenged me, a response is warranted. To wit:

1] as for "research psychologist specialising in fetishism on-site"...I am a professional researcher (i.e., I get paid to do research), but in a professional field that I will not name here....and, I have semi-regular contact with psychological professionals (due to work in said field where this professional expertise is utilized)...said research is entirely confidential per professional ethics.

2] As for professional publication credits, I have many (hundreds), but not in this alluded to field (or the psychology field); most are either open access (or public, print and web media) publishing credits (so, they could be easily found), but I will not name the sites (nor state my name) here for obvious privacy reasons (and maintaining separation between my professional work and private hobbies).

3] my research on sexual fetishism, specifically, was on my own initiative while preparing/planning/producing a series of short videos (which started back in the mid 1990's) most of which had some 'fetishistic' content (as well as art/music content)...and just prior to making my first wam video (for me, wam embodies several appealing aspects, with the fetish aspect but one; possibly not as strong as with other producers, but the aesthetic and shock' values decidedly so; I have noted this before on this forum, going back many years)...Anyways, this 'pre-production' research (and some personal research dating many years prior) great;y informed my production style and content (which was rather influential in this community)....And yes, I am a professional researcher, writer, and media producer (and soon to have a new degree in a scientific field). I am a polymath. Deal with it.

4] My 'humblebrag' was neither humble nor a brag, but rather, I statement of fact put into colloquial speech ("I'll wager") for the purpose of validating (in part) my claim that sexual fetishism in females is uncommon (as it is partly based upon REAL experiences with REAL women)...also: having interviewed many others, male and female...

5] Being able to 'google" a female fetishist (in a globally connected WEB of billions) does not refute this assertion, nor the fact that more than an average number of females with sexual fetishes may be found here on the umd.(I'm sure Anna Lee realizes this as she acknowledged that this is not a scientific sampling)

6] The original claim is WELL-established in the field (prior research going back decades) and requires ZERO academic credentials to locate and read and verify (of course, one is free to reject it, or, create and "alternative fact")...Further, citing said research likewise does not require any academic degree (although I do have one and am working on a second), only a curious mind and motivation.

This last and most obvious fact might have occurred to you had you stopped to think before attacking me (someone who has been contributing to this community since 1998). But thanks for playing !

A-L, Our mutual acquaintance loved seeing me pied, and found it sexy -- and in one session let me have it relentlessly. I think she's an outlier, though, and unique (in various ways). Also, we had a connection like you describe here - a friendship beyond just the kink. That had a lot to do with the mutual "I need to pie you!" chemistry.

MessyDare Girl -

Well Jeepers, Ok, that was a classy apology...

I actually came back here today/this morning to re-edit my post ( ) because I thought that maybe it was too aggro a reaction to your criticizing of me (thought I would cut out a few lines, etc.)...only to find your "grown-up" reply (which I was anticipating to be the start of a flame war -- not good for either of us)...so, since you apologized so well, I now feel shitty and will now apologize for going a bit over-board in my self-defense (and probably boring/annoying the other readers here).

Also: since you are a (female) 'lurker' I certainly don't want to scare you away after what seems to me to be your first series of posts (I would likely get hate mail form my fellow umd-ers!).

Note: alas, I myself have no peer-reviewed journal papers to my credit (apart from one summary of a citizen science project that I worked on)...but hopefully, I will in the next 2-3 years as i return to academia and start doing more lab work.