Hi all,
It's going to take me a while to respond to the many different comments, but in advance I would like to request the following:
1. Could the thread in store owners be made public as it's very relevent to the issue, so it's clear to all what was and wasn't said in that thread.
2. Can MM please state in regard to the terms and conditions of the site exactly what terms and conditions that I am supposed to have breached.
3. State what terms and conditions Mike has breached.
4. Can MM explain to everybody why the 77% sale on my store was cancelled before I had chance to speak to him so the customers couldn't buy at the bargain price.

I think with this additional information available it will give a clearer and transparent view to all users, not just store owners and also avoid the need to rely on misreported facts by certain producers.

Jessie

1, 2, 3 & 4 it's his site so he can do as he wants.

This is my favourite from the t&c: "If an agreement cannot be reached, the site owner will decide on a course of action."

Then there's "any attempt to overrepresent your product over others will be seen as spam" and "fake accounts are all forms of harassment."

Mud slinging should stay in the private store owners forum, it's very bitter and below the belt to take cheap shots at other producers on your way out of here.

How have you been bullied Jessie ?

It was mike who was leading wammers on pretending to be you

It was your profile and accounts associated to yourselves that were messaging people and bumping your own posts

It was yourselves that bought loads of your own content without the thoughts of messmasters bandwidth or other charges when you take 77% of a scene then you give yourselves another discount messmasters percent is pretty much zilch

Wow..... I hope that the recent events are not indicative of who Jessie is as a person. I remember the drama over the producer and the nude scenes being removed at a certain date to respect Jessie. I don't think I am over stating things when I say that ever since Mike got involved there has been more bullshit and drama than before. It is sad that people stoop to such levels to win a popularity contest. If it means that much to them to be the most popular thing on this part of the internet so be it. To me, the content purchased should be based on your particular enjoyment of the content or the provider and to hell with any popularity shit.

I am thankful to MM for the way this has been handled. With the handling of everything in the past this is the right way to handle things. Inform people and let it be.

I am sad that the choice was made to remove all things Jessie. I did enjoy her content previously and have liked some of the new stuff. I hope and will continue to hope that in the coming days a way can be made to allow Jessie to stay. Maybe close the store and what not, but allow her to remain a member of the community. As a community I think that we should allow all points of view. As long as everyone knows that it could either be Mike or Jessie using the account and the ability to like things removed, I don't see an issue with them being here.

For the people that have been manipulated and abused by Mike, I agree that it is not right. There is always the option to block or ignore or just not answer a person.

With the contest. I think it is a bunch of bullshit used to trigger popularity. It is something that has been done for ages by advertisers. This is nothing new. Hell, look at the first episode of the TV show MASH. They did the exact same thing with the contest there too. Arranged it for the priest to win the date with the sexiest nurse in camp knowing he would not do anything with her. I think that if there are people who are disgruntled about th4e promotions and that it led to them buying products partial refunds should be permitted. But at the end of the day, no one is forcing you to buy content from a producer. No one is making you participate in contests here. It is something you do for fun and something you do to support the content producer.

The finance end is none of our business. If Mike is getting the money and dishing it out to Jessie in allotments like a allowance for a kid that is on them. We do not know the details of their relationship or the details of Jessie's previous finances. It is at all possible that Jessie might have a money management problem and that Mike is helping her with it. It could be that Mike is using the money to offset what he pays in bills or what the bills are for Jessie and her family to live. Mike could also be a manipulative asshole that is stealing the money from her. If that is the case, there are legal avenues that can be taken by people that have all the facts and that know everything about the situation. If you don't want to buy the content from Jessie because you think Mike is stealing it all then don't.

When this shit went nova, I was hoping it would shrink down into a white dwarf, but it seems like it's going the way of a point singularity instead and dragging us along with it.

What we know is that it's currently 11:30 PM EST (server time) and that she has until March 1st 12:00 AM EST to make whatever remarks she wants to make. Anything constructive that can be said here, seems to have already been said.

Rules were broken, an ultimatum was made for the party in question to stay. The terms of that negotiation were broken, so the account is to be terminated.

That's really the end of the discussion, I don't know what people intend to debate here.

You sir have a way with crafting one hell of an analogy!

Sometimes the drama is its own reward!

I rarely post on here however I do need to make a few points quite clear here as someone who has moderated other forums for years now

You are responsible for the actions of your account, in this case since shes actually sharing it, shes responsible for mike's actions, if hes forcing his way into her account, she could have taken action to have that remedy'd, since she didnt, shes either A using autofill which gives him easy access, or simply letting him on and not caring.

A person like this becomes a cancer to a community and what the site owners have done here is more lenient and nice then any site i mod would have been, to be honest, I'd have not even given her that chance, shut the store down and delete her content, her not having it backed up isnt anyone's problem here but hers. then delete the account. maybe a true lesson will be learned here once she loses all the content she spent hours to make.

to bad MM couldnt force her to payback the funs every user spent on her vidoes, I think that would be a fair punishment as well.

Hi Jessie,

With respect - for whatever reasons the owner of this site has made it quite clear he no longer wishes to allow you to contribute.
He suggested you retire gracefully and was courteous enough to allow you time to delete your profile gracefully.
If you have built your own Business model solely on relying on this Website in order to sell your goods it might be better you discuss this matter privately with the Website owners if you think a resolution is still possible.

Other than that I wish you well in your future endeavours but politely suggest it may be in your interests that you post a final message to your former customers (myself included) that doesn't only focus on the issues you clearly take umbridge with in this affair, but also considers the issues raised by the site owner.

To bow out with an apology for the mistakes that have taken place - even if they were out of your control - would at least show some regret for what has come to pass rather than taking a rather defensive view that suggests nothing that has happened was in any way of you or "Mike"'s doing.

I'm trying to be pragmatic here and hope you take my advice in the spirit it is intended.

Best regards

Eric

Thank for keeping things relatively civil, given what's going on. Thought I'd respond to a few things:


Normally, a user who commits these types of offenses would be banned immediately. Mike's account and the puppet accounts were removed a while ago. I didn't remove the Jessica25 account right away because for one, her membership site still has paying subscribers. I've canceled all her subscriptions but now they have to run out before I do anything. Also, this is sudden news for a lot of people. I figured I'd post the info and then shut up about it for a while, to give the community a chance digest it and possibly to communicate with Jessica25/Mike before they go. There are a lot of people here who had relationships with her, business and otherwise. I wanted to give them the opportunity to tie up any loose ends, in case this site was their only point of contact.


Let me clear this up: The extra time I'm giving her account is purely out of consideration for her paying subscribers, her unsuspecting fans, and for the community. When I confirmed to her on the phone that her store would be removed, I asked her directly if she had all her content backed up on her own hard drives, and she told me yes. Regardless, her actual content as well as backups will be deleted mid-March and I'll allow her to retrieve it until then.


The number of sales a producer makes does not come into consideration when it comes to fraud.


You always have great ideas, but UMD is not a large enough site for some of them! Top Store is just a simple thing--it's whoever made the most sales for the past 3 days rolling. I think that rather than make it outlier-proof, it's better to just keep crooked people off of the UMD. Besides, we actually want outliers. That, combined with the 3-day rollover is what gives smaller sites a chance to occasionaly break through when other sites usually dominate that section. Let me know any other ideas you might have though... I'm always open to tweaking how our various "top" and "hottest" sections work.



Thanks for the props, but posts do not get swept under the rug here, though I'm not always the best at comunication. If an argument is heated but remains respectful, I'll let it continue. When something does need to be deleted, there are permanent internal notes as to why, and I explain those notes to anyone who asks. I'll easily change my mind or reverse a deletion if you introduce new info that makes better sense. In your comment I think you might be referring to your own posts that I've removed due to you regularly hijacking a particular user's threads for a couple of years. You and I have settled this a while ago, but you can contact me if we're still not clear.


I actually think that it would be best to keep that thread private, as there is a lot of mud slinging and people involved who never asked to be part of this. I'm not sure you want to go down the wormhole of technicalities, but the TOS breached is that you guys systematically manipulated our site in multiple ways to artificially boost your rankings and sales. You used fake accounts along with your own, not only for massive discount purchases, but also to give over 1000 loves to Jessie's various posts. All this ultimately affects not only Top Store, but User of the Day, Most Loved User, site rankings, and much more. It all adds up to deliberate and provable fraud. On a social level, you used the puppet accounts to anonymously respond to threads and send inbox messages pretending to be a paying customs customer. For two years you used the accounts to masquerade as advocates of Jessie with no skin in the game, to ask other members for stolen content, and even to rig a contest. All the posts are still there for anyone to see, and any one of them is cause to be gagged or removed. The straw that broke the back is that Mike came back onto the site via the Jessica25 account around his ban. Then you called me on Skype a second time to convince me it wasn't him, only to finally admit it really was him after I explained my sources of proof. It's pointless to keep trying to differentiate whether it's Jessie or Mike; It's a fraudulent account that I need to protect my users from. As for #4, I killed the sale because I have no interest in capitalizing off of this via some last minute blowout sale.


Outside of putting their fingers on the scale of the ratings systems and deceiving us with the multiple accounts, there is nothing worth pursuing legally. I want a clean break and I wish them both wellness and success outside of this site. Communities are defined by the worst that they go through, so thanks to the producers and everyone else who have kept the conversation on-focus and insisted on civility. I'll move this thread to Off-Topic only, and everyone including Jessica/Mike can still respond until Febrary 28. After that it'll only be fair to close the thread and wrap up this chapter. Anybody can message me for any questions at all.

Peace,
Messmaster

Credit where due: I was contacted by the Jessica25 account today and asked to give their 101-scene bundle to the rightful winner of their rigged contest. I agreed and it's done. I don't know how they originally planned to deliver this prize, but I'll donate the bandwidth for it anyway.

MM

Can I have it,too?I couldn't think of a more deserving person.

Dang, I woulda bought that.

Regis buying something? We are truly in end times.

You didn't have to, it was a mulligan for the entire forum...

Thanks for all the great work, Jessie. It's been nice knowing you.

Hahaha, somebody had that ready to go at midnight on the dot.

It's very disappointing. Her account is actually still active as of right now (8.30am in the UK), so I assume MM is defining the "past the end of February" deadline as "when I get up on the East Coast on 1st March", which would be lunchtime here. However, even if Jessie has got a few hours left, I'm not hopeful. She logged in a couple of hours ago, but didn't post, and there's nothing on YT or Twitter either. It looks like the handing over of the prize to the real winner in that rigged contest, and that she's stopped trying to protest her innocence, are the closest we're going to get to contrition. It's still some way short of an apology, and to leave without even trying to say something is just wrong.

I'm sure that, in the future, I will retain my fond memories of the "old" Jessie. And that's about as gracious as I feel I can get.

FWIW, I think MM handled this all perfectly. Shame to see her go, but stuff like that shouldn't be tolerated.

I think I see what Jessie's getting at - she's asking MM to quote a rule that says "You mustn't use puppet accounts to love your own posts", and I don't think there is one. However, that also means that she's not denying this behaviour or apologising for it, she's just arguing that she didn't technically do anything wrong, which is disappointing.

That's not how t's and c's work I'm afraid... there isn't a hard and fast rule for every possible violation otherwise it would go on indefinitely. Like the rules don't specifically state that a member can't hack into another person's account to steal content but it's definitely contained within a blanket statement.

Of course this can cause some questions and some abuse of those rules as when the rule says, for example, "don't cheat the system", someone could argue they didn't, they merely opened some secondary accounts to boost their own work.

A wrong is a wrong at the end of the day though I guess and in this case the violation of the T's and C's are actually very clear.

Man, can't believe I missed all this!
Jessie has always been one of my favorite ladies here but it had become pretty clear that since her publicised illness on here that the tone of 'her' posting had taken a turn for the severe. I got a couple of private messages over recent years from Jessie when I had said something nice about some of her content and her personality on here now is far removed from that of the messages I received (I'm still pretty sure I communicated with the real Jessie).

So, was her illness real then or all a stage-managed ruse for more sympathy and publicity? I hope the former but after all I've read in here I'm now not so sure.

I hope you're okay Jessie, I still have loads of your amazing videos to remember you by (that wasn't supposed to sound like an obituary!)

As someone who has worked with Jessie on numerous occasions, it is sad to see it end like this. I found her hilarious and a proper laugh...the Messymayhem Jessie is A Diva quiz being a high point.... I found her friendly and considerate in the time up to and including her hospital stay. In hindsight, she should have gracefully retired at that point, just chilling out and occasionally coming on here for the Craic.

The whys and wherefores have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread and it is clear that Jessies associate has basically tarnished the good times.

Such a shame - but ya can't piss on somebody's chips like that....

Twitter page has gone and the .com page says everything is moving to clips4sale.

I had always hoped Jessica would come to my place and we eat ribeyes and listen to The Doors.

I don't want to pile up on her, and frankly I find some of the "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!" kind of comments as, at best unhelpful -- which is putting it mildly. Honestly, there is no need for that kind of crap at all, I haven't seen that on these forums in a long long while but there were at times really kind of cowardly "Mob" mentality with some people, who seem like they're just taking this chance to unload on someone who isn't really able to fire back.

That in the sense that she most certainly did Fuck up, so now it's okay to just unload on her.

Me, I don't find that helpful and I think it's kind of disgusting.

Still, with that out of the way, she most certainly did Fuck up big time here, not just with what she had been doing for years, but what kills me the most is how she apparently handled it. I am not privy to everything but on face level, the whole, "I can't respond now! Kids! Vacation! No, no no!" stuff was just blatant and insulting lies -- painfully obvious now as it was clearly her showing her unwillingness to come clean, be honest and just say, "Yes I fucked up. Here's why" and being open about it. You didn't have 10 minutes? Come the fuck on.

It's bullshit, but let's be real for a second, there is a lot of bullshit in a lot of places, sometimes even here.

I seem to recall Jessy (was it her? Am I confused?) had recently made a thread about her being a Fetish Model and jumping into the Dating Game, asking this forum how guys would really react.

Of course, the comments were all:

"You go girl!"
"NO guy will care!"
"Date me!!!"

and several other predictable and similar comments. Not one of them struck me as particularly honest or one that wasn't self-serving.

So, she had her moment with her bullshit but it's not like she's alone there. That is, maybe I need to go back to that thread and recheck to make sure someone didn't say, "Well a lot of guys are not going to get serious with a Fetish Model, just know that" in an honest way.

So maybe I can't blame her too much being dishonest as she was.

That was Ariel. I think the responses were supportive and encouraging, on the whole.

https://umd.net/forums/how-would-you-feel-about-dating-a-fetish

Sounds like some of you were watching this thread on the countdown to midnight waiting for your apologies or with the party poppers ready. That sense of entitlement and the general attitude to a genuinely lovely woman is almost as sucky as what has gone on with the Jessie account in recent times frankly.

I understand why MM had to do what he did. He did his investigation and the evidence all pointed to Jessica and Mike's wrong doings. We have exchanged emails with MM and we support his findings. But it was a bit disappointing to see some of the other producers, mostly the U.K. ones, kick them hard while they were down. Voicing an opinion is one thing, but name calling is a bit harsh. Anyway, it is what it is. I do want it to be known that Jessica or Mike took the time to issue take down notices on some of our videos they found on porn hub. They never told us they did this. We found out ourselves when we saw her name on the take down notice on those particular videos. Yes, they did wrong, but I just wanted to let that be known.

It's over now, the time has passed. Please lock. As we all know, scat is not allowed on UMD, and the last two pages have almost entirely been shit flinging.

Edit: Also the accounts are gone.