I've always been pretty casual about it but the last few weeks have left me frustrated and concerned. Posting has become too much of a hassle. I'm gone for a while if not forever because the fun has completely gone out of doing anything at UMD. I can't post my own photos without a driver's license. I can't post text without some mod deleting it because "It could have been worded better" . It boggles me that here we are on a fetish site surrounded by mountains of what most of the world regards as kinky but we have to monitor every freaking move so we don't look bad? And this is due to the controlling interest of something as morally suspect as a bank?

I don't question the good intentions of those at UMD who implemented and have deal with this but I'm just done. At least for now. I've got to go away and think more about where this is leading us. You really think all of this is the end of it? At the rate we are going how long will it be until we are all held personally accountable, or liable, for everything here? The trend is not a good one and the environment here has me more concerned than ever. Y'all have fun.

Seems many sites are going this direction

Sorry to hear UMD isn't a experience tailored completely around you. It is unfortunate that this community involves more than just you and--in term--the website must be designed around being a welcoming and enjoyable environment for anyone. It is regrettable UMD isn't a hellscape cesspit that you desire because of our efforts "so we don't look bad".

I certainly now am reflecting on my choices as well as the moderation of the site that lead you to having a comment removed--that I dare say--was pretty disturbing in the context provided. However, we are all a bunch of shills for the bank and that's exactly why your comment was deleted; nothing to do with how in context it seemed like a form of sexual assault victim blaming, but rather it was a direct order from the president of Big Bank Inc.

We're truly sorry that the website has no place for illusions at victim blaming,

I wish that UMD could be a site just for you were you could say anything in your back catalogue of strange and sometimes offensive remarks, but unfortunately me and many others are a bunch of "snowflakes" who will get so offended that our comment got deleted that we make a big announcement out of our departure to garner attention.

Furthermore, as a shill of Big Bank Inc. "your home for all your financial needs: est. 1887": I do want to remind you that anyone can post non-explicit photos and/or photos that do not feature children. All you have to do is wait like, 3 hours for one of the many site admin to review and accept the photo. Remember, if the models you hired had to fill out a model release form, seems only fair you provide the bare minimum of information, but I digress.

I'll be here with all the other members who realized that the ID verification was for the safety of children, as well as the financial safety of our many producers who's livelihoods depend on UMD accepting payments; as we wait with baited breath for your triumphant return in the future.

Thank you for that unnecessarily smartass and sarcastic response to some genuine questions. It only confirms my decision.

I'm sorry but I was very funny to me.

In short I gathered three genuine questions from the post. The answers are as follows:

1) The deleted comment sounded like a sort of illusion to sexual assault victim blaming. If that wasn't the intent, yes, it really did need to be worded better.

2) The ID requirement was scary at first but I feel the community has moved on, as well the ID required has had many more benefits for the community than just an ability to keep the website up. Not only is the content posted here under scrutiny to restrict explicit and/or illegal content; the amount of catfish, fake, and other scam accounts is being hindered. In my own personal experience I've found solace in messaging verified accounts as I know the person I'm talking to is really there. All in all as time progresses the requirements have seemed to have a healthy impact on the community.

3) The morals of a bank are aside the point. Unfortunately in a capitalist system you need to answer to those at the top and in this particular system, those people don't want to have their company used for illegal activity. The internet has made it extremely easy to sell and distribute underage pornography and I commend the bank for taking such a harsh stance on barring it, even so far as to require IDs on a extremely niche fetish forum. As the internet gets older more and more safeguards are put in place. If I want to go buy pornography at the convenience store I need to present a photo ID, I don't see why purchasing and posting pornography on the internet should be any different. The more safeguards in place, the better UMD and the whole of the internet will be.

After the genuine questions there is two more or less interjected, seemingly rhetorical questions, however I will answer those as well.

1) no, I do not think this is the end of it, but rather the beginning of a new and healthier chapter.

2) The users on this site are only accountable for what they post. No one, not even the moderators, are accountable for what people post. Only the user is accountable. The moderators are accountable for removing illegal or obscene content; but they are not going to get in trouble for the initial post. No one will get in trouble for something someone else posts.

All in all, if you dislike the ID requirements then there is nothing UMD can do about it. Look past it being a banking regulation and see the big picture on the matter, the internet is a necessity in the modern age and we need to do anything we can to protect our young generation from harm.

I understand some people would prefer to fly under the radar, but the credit companies already know your identity anyway for producers on the site, as does google your friendly neighborhood internet service provider, and if necessary law enforcement/intel community. While there are downsides to everything there are also positives. if underage people posted content on the site unchecked not only could it cause the credit companies to blacklist the site but at least in the U.S. if you're an adult media distribution platform and you don't do your best to prevent underage explicit content/trafficking you can get into legal troubles for distributing underage material if reasonable efforts aren't made to prevent it.


having stores content protected by id verification also protects the interests of owners if there content was ever uploaded by someone.


you don't need id as per the site owners words as long as you aren't posting sexually graphic images.


as for this spinning down a slippery slope no one in the community can be held accountable for illegal posts as long as they aren't party to it.

as for perhaps the greater overall point of your comment about where it's going in terms of privacy to a greater degree. Nothings really that secret anyway but as long as there's no shady underhanded stuff going on nothing to worry about.



end of the day the banks are gonna look out for their own interests and barring any laws passed on what they can and cannot require theres not much else to do but play by the rules.

Yes. Well thank you for allaying all of my concerns so professionally. I hope you have better success as a comedian than you have as a moderator.

I've been thinking the same I appreciate you voicing your frustration in words and the history that you share with your life experiences

Cloud and privacy

https://www.amazon.com/Private-Eye-Brian-K-Vaughan/dp/1632155729

Found this interesting
Pump up the volume (classic take on your whole comment)
https://youtu.be/xh6ikBf297U

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oR0utMcSC7o

Yeah! Of course. I had some downtime so I decided it would be much more polite to break down each point in a numbered list. I believe it can also help others because, lists are just so nice.

Also, thank you. I've never considered comedy as my job keeps me occupied enough, but if you really think my comedy is even better than my moderation, I must be the next Kevin Hart! The previous sentence was a joke of course. I understand what you're saying and I certainly won't take it to heart.

In all seriousness I hope my personal opinion on the matter helped anything but I know you didn't really care to heed the advice: or even read it.

Of course I might be a group host, but in the grand scheme of things that doesn't matter in terms of my opinion on the matter. I'm just a Japanese girl in her early 20s working a dead end office job: I pop on here for fun and I actually am quite upset and embarrassed I angered you with my response. Of course it's not my intention to do so and I hope it's not too hard to move on.

That's not entirely true, you just can't post nude or sexual ones. To be honest the the shots you used to post actually gave me a false negative impression of MPV - I thought it was all boring nudity or horrid skimpy outfits, so I never bothered to check it out. I've subsequently discovered by accident that there is actually some nice fully clothed content there, though was disapointed that the video I did buy, with the girls in skin tight shiny catsuits and freaking Elizabethan collars (that was a serious WOW! moment) didn't include the girls clambering back out of the mud afterwards, which was the bit I actually wanted to see. But 10 out of 10 for outfit style and then some, and the sinking bit was fun.

And though I realise I'm speaking from the towering heights of privilege in that I'm totally "out" about my fetish interests to everyone and could not imagine not being my authentic self everywhere - hell if I wasn't there are several wonderful models I'd never have got to shoot with because they'd not have known I did WAM - what's so bad about verifying with MM? He stores the records encrypted and off-line, and unlike some faceless corporation we all know who he is and that he can be trusted absolutely. I'd no hesitation in sending him my passport scan. And once verified you can post anything legal.


I think we're all going ro have to be a lot more responsible, and take ownership of things, in the future. I first went on-line in 1995, freaks and geeks and the wild west. But what was harmless anonynmous fun for most of us was a huge opportunity to exploit for others. Look on the bright side, these rules being imposed globally will bring down the hammer on casual piracy. I'm not deluding myself that piracy won't still happen in closed groups, but at least people can no longer just go to the nearest tube site, type in a well known site name, and oh look, the entire stolen back catalogue for free. That's got to be a plus.

There is a certain irony here in that the net effect is that UMD is now more censored than before but that is as it is and certainly not unexpected given the continuing assault on freedom of speech on the Internet. However, that is is not what is ironic...

Think for a minute how moderation of the Quicksandfans forum has always been somewhat censored, not just to preserve legal niceties, but to make sure that no content or drama interferes with the forum's primary purpose of driving MPV sales. No post is safe there either and, come on now, as a moderator there, don't you see at least a little of the irony involved in the double edged sword of moderation you wield there cutting both ways here?

And, the ultimate irony of all, the forum with the least censorship is in, hmmm, reckon I'll leave the name of that country and that forum out of this post as I'm already sailing pretty close to the wind here, eh!!!

Sorry to see you go, your posts are some of the few I read every one of and that I respect regardless of the position you take...

Thank you. I think your take on QSF and it's primary purpose is overstated but there's no denying the golden rule. Whoever has the gold, makes the rules. Anywhere. But QSF continues to serve it's purpose for the community uninterrupted now since 2009. And it's a hell of a lot more polite than what it replaced. And yes there is that other place but their mission is primarily criminal. This ultimately effects all of us.

Please don't confuse this with any ill will toward UMD. I'm not Regis. Maybe someday someone will create a place where those of us who think baked goods are for eating will get some respect too.

Ah yes, I do remember the turmoil before Dave took the reins and smoothed things out...

I know I'm replying to one of the legends himself, I love mud more than life but man come on, you're better than this bro, this post makes you look like a baby with the dummy out, for a bloke I've had respect for over many years being an enthusiastic mud fetish . I know its not you or your usual self. Look at the bigger picture, it's like Facebook or any app. It's government policing ass holes who are every day shutting down our fun on any site. It's sadly the reality, its the curl of the burl it seems. The way of the world. But man your a legend. Yes voices need to be heard. But dude honestly your making yourself look like a kid with the dummy out on this post and you're a legend man

And btw ill see you next week lol u will be back lol xx

Yep. You are, and he is.

Nessie

Thank you, Nessie. You're the one I look up to.

I had hoped that some might respond to my real concerns -


As if to prove one of my points, the moderator failed at moderating and opted to become a stand-up inflamer right out of the gate.

Look, this isn't going to end well. You want to have honest, open, somewhat anonymous, discussion under the control of banks who are terrified of lawyers and bad legislation and you really can't. I've gone as far as I'm willing to go regardless of the reasons.

Well yes, it is indeed a disturbing trend for essentially amoral entities, banks and most corporations, to be dictating morality and they, and not the courts, determining what is inappropriate. If the government told you money couldn't be used to purchase a certain item, you may only trade for it instead, you'd hope that doing that would get people's attention. Since credit card use has become so pervasive and has largely replaced the use of cash in the last few decades, sure seems like folks ought to be demanding that credit cards be treated the same as cash. That is, if you purchase something with cash, the transaction may be illegal but the use of cash is not subject to the kind of control that credit card purchases are...

Of course, there is a filthy lucre aspect to all of this. Adult oriented businesses want to make money and you can make a whole lot more money accepting credit cards than having to handle cash or other financial instruments so they go along with the credit card companies dictating their internal business practices as doing otherwise would place them at a competitive advantage. The campaign directed at PornHub should have been resisted and the defense funded by all involved in adult oriented businesses as it's fall obviously produces a domino effect...

On a positive note, perhaps what is needed is for adult oriented businesses to help create a credit card company that they control, not the banks?...

Thanks nessy it's an honour and have fun in the mud and slop,much love xxxx

Make up your mind on what you're complaining about, my god. If you are upset that your comment was deleted and that people need to stop being sensitive, then don't complain that I hurt your feelings. If you want me to delete my first comment then I'll do it since it obviously upset you, but if you request me too, then anyone on this site reserves the right to report and subsequently remove your offensive comments.

Secondly, if you really dislike the way the site is headed in your opinion: then you can leave. It's unfortunate to see a long time staple if the community leave, but if you'd rather, no one here needs to ask you to stay. The whole reason of posting this thread was to garner attention anyways, and we'll I--and others--certainly did give you that.

I agree to be fair sadly i think the legends cheese has slipped of the cracker. The entire post is a winy moany over nothing but to draw attension to himself with cleverly worded speach. Sorry dunk but its true. You're slippin man this post be weak bro. Have a day off .

Might be worth noting that when things are getting worse, and a good case can be made for that with respect to various forms of censorship on the Internet lately, everybody has their breaking point. So, when losing a valued member like here, have a little respect, after all, your day may come too when you've had enough...

Okay, we're going nowhere fast now. I made a little attempt at discussion and I thank those who made an effort to contribute in positive fashion. Obviously I made a great mistake in overestimating the space available for such discourse here.

As always, feel free to contact me at Duncan.Edwards036@gmail.com anytime about anything.

Things have been pretty frustrating this year for all of us. Believe me, we're all feeling it nowadays. I think others have explained about the photo ID thing very well, and I'll respond again later to talk about some other things. But your deleted post was a separate issue. I deleted that post. To clear things up for everybody, I'll paste your original text as well as my internal and public-facing comments.

Original text, in response to "Is hate fucking actually a kink?":
"I've been guilty of it back in the day. I actually got off on thinking I was doing something to a girl I didn't like only to learn that she really enjoyed it anyway. You know the old line about don't wrestle with pigs? You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. It's also worth remembering that if they don't enjoy 'hate fucking' it's called 'rape'"

My external comment:
"This one could probably be worded better."

My comment sent to you:
"We're not sure what you meant, but some interpretations can be pretty bad."

I wasn't trying to put you down brother, but I was looking out for you. I read that thing like 10 times and decided that it could be taken by others in a way that I really didn't think you meant. So I left the external comment pretty generic while internally explaining to you exactly why I erased it, thinking you maybe could have reposted it with clearer wording. Everybody knows how to find me, and that they can appeal any decision. All you had to do was hit me up if you thought I made the wrong move.

Messmaster

Just feel the need to clarify some stuff.


The reason why we are currently surrounded by mountains of kink is because for the past 23 years we've been responsible about what we do. We pay attention to the threats out there and we try to get out ahead of them. We respect that our billing partners and other 3rd party vendors have their own terms of service to deal with, and are also going through this crap that the CC companies are making us go through.


If leaving for another site that allows this type of content yet has looser rules, please point that place out to me because I need to learn a few things. Really though, I ask that we not conflate all these issues into one. When you are not personally accountable, or liable, then that burden falls on my shoulders. That's why I need ID's for explicit stuff. I could, right now, just require that every single person send an ID or be removed from the site. I could shut the entire public-facing area down and force you to log in before seeing anything at all, as seems to be the trend nowadays. No, my goal is to keep this thing as open as I can to the public. But that's exactly what makes this so hard. I'm willing to put in that hard work, but I'm also asking for your help.


We need to be careful when we use theses terms, because they are loaded. What we do here is moderation, not censorship. Moderation is what you do when you want to shape the long-term direction of a community. You remove a post here and there if it's illegal, immoral, or just doesn't fit the vibe because it's mean or whatever. Censorship is what you do when you are trying to hide something, like an ulterior motive. Confusing censorship with an honest attempt at keeping the peace is a symptom of this growing, overarching, global distrust we have in each other. I alluded to that in my "Rounded Prices" post, though I think that was lost on most.

Peace,
Messmaster

Can't find another place like this

The thing that I have to laugh about with this whole situation is the notion of free speech on the internet. I don't know why it took some people so long to realize that there is no such thing as free speech on the internet. I had only been on social media for about a month when I read about people being asked to show their social media pages during job interviews. Or being asked by employers to show their pages at work. Then came the firings because of things people said on social media.

I am all for people being able to say what they want. It informs people on who they should avoid or who they should align with. But then comes the censorship because some of the few don't like what they read on the side of the internet they found to enjoy. The same issues that caused George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on television to be read in the supreme court and bring fines to radio stations are here today. Rather than just skip ahead, read another forum post or change the station. People decided that was too much of an inconvenience and that they should not have to make that choice in the first place. So they grabbed their pitch forks and ran to the people controlling those things forcing things to change to suit what was more comfortable for them. Now everyone that runs a website with any kind of social interaction has to police it for the people who were made uncomfortable. Part of posting on a site means that you are a guest in someone else's pond. If you want to post to that site and participate you have to play by the rules of that site.

Accountability as far as content here is nothing new. Anyone that has been on this site for any length of time will be able to tell you about people who have had to remove their content and leave the site because of legal revenge porn. I am not sure what else to call it, but that is what I think covers it best. Where people with varying interests have used this site and some of the posts here to shame people publicly or in custody battles over the content here. We live in a world where scorned people can twist anything into major consequences, for everyone but them. I have read news articles about people being threatened with having to register as a sex offender because a kid walked in and saw a woman their dad was dating topless. While I didn't think anything of it at the time, when I worked graveyard shift and slept all day, the place I lived in had windows that if someone wanted to they could have seen me walking from my bedroom to the kitchen to get a drink. If some kid passing by looked just right and saw me, their parents could have had me tossed on that list. Those are the assholes that have forced their will on others. They are the ones that have forced sites to take the measures they have had to.

Ah yes, the subtle distinctions between censorship and content moderation, which are very real. However, like most things, though we'd all like for there to be a precise dividing line as to what is what and what is not, alas, so often there are gray areas. Consider for instance the following, not as an assertion that UMD practices anything other than just content moderation, but rather just the observation that humans being humans, does not some content moderation sometimes veer off onto the slippery slope leading to de facto censorship?...

I like to see both sides of things so I will simply state that I see no effective way of operating any sort of forum without both content moderation and censorship and that ultimately, there is nothing wrong with either, it is just that each is appropriate in differing situations. Note that this thread has not yet been removed and that testifies to content moderation being the law of the land on UMD, not censorship...

I will lighten things up with a little story that might have meaning here...

Think about baseball for a moment. Consider that there are only three types of umpires with respect to the calling of strikes...

The First calls 'em as they are...

The Second calls 'em as he see's 'em...

The Third says, they ain't nothing until I calls 'em...

They are not just different points on some common scale. Censorship is a different beast and implies some sort of ill intent. That's what one really means when they use this word, and that's how people take it. If you throw a drunk guy out of a bar, you are not censoring him. You're doing what's good to keep the party going, is all. If you don't let him in because you're afraid of his political views, that's censorship. It's destructive to the wrong people to use both words interchangeably. Know the difference.


Hard no.

Messmaster

On UMD then, censorship is defined as having ill intent, no problem with that. In the Federal Republic of Germany, most any speech advocating or glorifying Nazi principles is not only censored but illegal. I have no problem with that either, however, I do not consider that censorship to constitute ill intent...