Have just put our store back on line so I can go in the store owners forum but am still blocked for some reason so posting here.

There were some comments on there regarding the tax issue with some good points and arguments for and against the tax info. There seems to be quite a few producers closing their stores, particularly from the UK because of this. What's the view of others from the UK regarding completing these forms and entering the U.S. tax system even if we are exempt from paying US tax at the moment ? Our current decision is still to keep the stores closed for the moment, for other reasons we've removed a lot f films from our other store but am curious what others from the UK think. Appologies if people think this is off topic but we are not able to use the store owners forum.

Hahahahaha, so predictable!

I've just launched a new store on UMD despite this and I hadn't realised it was something that had only just been implemented but it stands to reason that you would need to provide some sort of information as any form of income large or small is liable to be taxed and should be declared anyway.

From a UK perspective it would seem that we are exempt from being taxed by the US (although I wouldn't quote me on what but it's my understanding) but just like custodian records MessMaster needs to be able to prove that the money generated from his business is paid out to us rather than it being an income for himself should the IRS come calling.

For people worrying about accountants and so forth finding out they have a WAM fetish seems bizarre anyway. My accountant is a relation of mine and doesn't dig into the depths of what I'm shooting he just needs to know I sell digital content online and then what the outgoings and incoming funds are.

I know a lot of people on here sell stuff to fund their sessions but in the eyes of the law in the UK (and I'm sure the USA and other countries too) the moment you start selling a product (for profit, loss or just to breakeven) it's considered a business.

Will you be putting any of the gunge vids back up?

Seems we'll be returning to the when amateurs would post some pictures, maybe a short clip and you would message back and forth to purchase a clip or photoset. Maybe through a paypal or mailed check arrangement.

Amateur sploshing survived before umd's store set-up and it will continue.

You're not entering any tax system. The forms are only for UMD's records and we keep them in our file cabinet and they sit there and collect dust. We don't send them to the U.K. government or the U.S. government, or otherwise send in a report on on anyone outside the U.S. That's because your work was performed outside the U.S. and I am not required to. That means we also still don't withhold any tax from anyone.

The reason we need the W-BEN record is as a placeholder for the W9's that we'd normally get from U.S. producers. It allows us to account for funds that we sent overseas in case of an audit, but it's not there for normal tax reporting duties.

Dunktankbabes I'll check on your Store Owners forum access tonight.

Thanks
M

Helloplease, do you EVER have anything good to say about anyone else? It is clear that you do not understand or care what it takes to be a producer right now.

There are real people facing difficult decision over their marketing right now and it may be that in a few months time there will be a lot fewer of them. Those of you who don't any experience of what it was like before the internet made everything so easy, have no concept of how difficult it was to obtain fetish material then. It may happen that we could be returning to that scenario, or paying a hell of a lot more for the product in the future.

Here's my (UK) perspective on it: A bit like the VATMOSS stuff the EU introduced in January, the Internet is suddenly growing up very fast - the old consensus of not taxing online businesses is now history and from now on governments will want a cut of on-line sales just as they do physical ones.

I gather from what MM and others have posted that filling in the IRS form for UK producers doesn't mean we start getting taxed by the US govt, so this isn't going to affect our sales income, so other than physically finding the time to do so (very busy time of year for me and first quarter VAT accounts have to be in soon) it's not really an issue. But if we did start to get taxed in the US, we'd just increase our prices to compensate. We already have to add VAT to the cost of signups in the UK and EU for our membership site, if we started getting taxed on the download store we'd just raise our prices by the amount of the tax - that's all any business can do, and customers just have to accept that there is a tax element to the price of the product, just as there is for "real world" purchases.

Basically, for the last 20 years on line business had it easy and was largely untaxed (esp small niche things like WAM content) but those days are now over.

As the old saying goes, only two things in life are unavoidable. Death, and taxes.

Thanks for the response, we had thought about taking a break in any case so this seemed the natural time. When we are back from Thailand I will read up more and make a decision as to our future. Presumably the U.S. tax people could ask for those forms at any time though.

I often wonder how computers work, too.