I wonder who likes mess more. In my opinion, there are more wet and messy fetish lovers among men. What is your opinion, who is more?

The issue is a social one. We still have a very patriarchal society with long-standing and very sexist ideas of gender roles. While things are finally improving with legal changes that at least outlaw direct discrimination against women who want to do non-traditional occupations like soldiering or engineering, there's an immense amount of inertial in people's general ideas of the roles men and women should have (and should not have), and those extend into most areas of life including sexual ones.

At core, probably a similar number of women would enjoy getting deliberately messy as men do, however while men grow up in an environment where kinks and fetishes are at least expected and tolerated under "boys will be boys", women are still often expected to regard sex and sexuality as something to "put up with" in marriage, not something they should be actively into themselves. Think of the terminology - a man who has lots of sex is a "stud" or "sowing his seed" and seen as someone to look up to and admire. On the other hand a woman who likes sex and has lots of sexual partners, or is into kinks and fetishes, is seen as a "slut", someone to look down on, someone dirty and degrading, going against God, etc, etc.

And then on top of that, consider what happens to any woman who does put her head above the parapet on fetish sites like this one - she gets her spirit crushed by aggressive horny guys who see her primarily as a sex object existing for their pleasure - and yet who then freely pirate her work, wilfully degrading her.

While lots of models are only into WAM as a fun (non-sexual fun) thing to do - they enjoy the chance to play in mess, get messy, mess someone else up, but only from a "this is awesome fun esp when we also get paid for it" POV - there are also models who genuinely are into WAM as an actual fetish and get genuinely turned on by having their panties filled with custard or being made to sit on cakes, and can and do get messy for their own pleasure as well as on camera. But many such women actively avoid taking part in on-line fetish communities, or just hang out anonymously, or with male profiles, and little or no active participation, to avoid the hassle they'd otherwise get.

Basically if we want more women to participate and be public as active fetishists, we all need to make an effort to treat women better in general. To quote a current meme, there's a good reason many women chose the bear.

You tell me

Seriously, it's probably even, but us females lurk more in fear of being jumped on by horny males.

Women who like mess are my favorite mythological animal

The simplest way to get more women in WAM is to start taking estrogen.

It is simple, stop messaging photos of your cock. I got one yesterday even though my profile says it's the quickest way to get you blocked

For me, it's non-sexual, but the sex object thing is an interesting topic. I've no doubt men (and maybe women) masterbate to my material, which is fine, but I don't want messages or photos sent to me about it. Some struggle with that concept, which is why no doubt some females continue to lurk. I'm an everyday female in real life. Patsy isn't who I am on the school run, or when I'm shopping

You are your own person. From another female view, I'd say that approach is conflicting and confusing. Just my view of course and no disrespect meant. Growing up, if a woman slept with men she was a slut, a man would be a stud. Hopefully views have moved on.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm doing one more video with salad cream as I love the smell and look. Probably discovering a humiliation element I never knew I had. Will go back to traditional slapstick after. Time will tell. Good on you for saying how you feel. Best wishes x

I'm not sure if there's a different number of fetishists, as such, between the genders: like DM1 said, I think probably there's a different number of kinky people aware and especially OPEN about it (especially in places like this)... guys can be a bit weird sometimes, you know how it is.

A lot more people find this particular kink fun and silly than are into it in either a sensual or sexual way. I certainly talked to a few kinky friends, most of whom aren't into it, this week, about a shoot I did at the weekend, and got reactions ranging from "oh, I could never do that", through "I hope you had fun???" - but probably overall more: "Oh my god that sounds so much fun", or "omg bucket list shoot!" or "I always wanted to do that!"

Obviously it depends on who you're asking.

It's situational for me - as I think it probably is for many of us (but I know, not all): a shoot or a public thing, of course I'll keep it fun and silly, work hard (where appropriate) and have a blast doing it! A more intimate, sexy framing to it, or something with a partner? Okay, then maybe I'll get a bit spicier if the vibe works for it.

Just: don't be weird, I guess?

Maybe, truthfully, I can not say.

The only thing I know is that my partner likes messes. Though its more of her messing me up (slammed with so many cream/fluffy pies in my face) rather than being the one getting messed up.

THIS!!!!!! While I agree with a lot of your comment especially with the bear and how that can lead to all kinds of discussions around men in power using that power to restrict women's rights.

Your comment about treating women decent here should be required reading when starting an account. The lack of the correct social skills really drives away women. I would like to think that people behave this way because they were never taught how to be decent people to members of the opposite sex, because their fathers were piece of shit human beings. As well as schools shaming women for distracting guys by dressing "suggestive". I am afraid that there is a larger portion were taught adequate social skills and it is an active choice to be an asshole.

In my experience, my partners who get messy with me do so because I like it more than the thought they want to get messy. They enjoy the experiences but are not longing to do it more. More often, my partners like the idea of controlled humilation. I had been given permission by a couple of them to pie them unexpectedly like coming home after a date or whatever.

Huh, I didn't realize you could attach images to UMD messages now. Is that a Premium feature?

Sorry to get off topic, but I am curious of this myself. Not looking to send unsolicited D pics, but there have been many times I have been messaging someone and would have liked to attach a pic to the message instead of having to upload it to some other place. We have gotten the honorary VIP membership a few times and I have not noticed any difference in the appearance of the message system on here. Is there some icon/feature I am missing? Thanks

-JD

It's possible to attach images when messaging MM, I've used that a few times to send screen shots of faults and issues with the site. However I've never seen the "attach image" button on anyone else's profile, even though I have both VIP and Admin levels.

@Patsy, can you clarify what you mean? Was the dick pic sent within UMD or somewhere external? And if internal, did you report it to MM?

You can only attach files to messages sent to me, not to anybody else. Checking the inbox messages now and messaging Pasty Pastry privately asking for clarification. Could have been sent via the chat's file sharing feature. Please don't hesitate to flag anything or any user that you feel is suspicious, inappropriate, or that makes you uncomfortable. I get those flags directly and can remove an obnoxious user if need be so that they're not bothering anybody else.

Yes, a fair few of us do x

I've been reading this thread off and on for a few days without really knowing what I wanted to say, but I think I've got it now. To me it feels like these two ideas are tightly, if unexpectedly, connected:



So, like, the stuff that DM1 is saying maps onto the familiar dom/sub dichotomy that we're all familiar with. But, at the same time, it's a map that feels partial or incomplete, because it's meant to be. As he says, the map is designed to artificially elevate men in society and, by the same token, artificially subjugate women. But in doing so, I think it also robs (many) men of the benefits of being sluts, which in turn makes it impossible for those men to empathize with or understand women who are like Flora.

The place where it loops back, I think, is where she says that it's hard to find the right way to arrange her sexual self, her social self, and her political/philosophical self. Some of her difficulty is manufactured by society, in that it's the downstream consequence of gender inequality and stuff. But some of her difficulty would be there regardless. Like, no matter how utopian our gender relations become, we're always going to want some gap between our sex lives and our social lives more broadly, and there's always going to be some tension between what we want sexually and what we want politically or philosophically.

And right now it feels like we've "solved" those problems by deciding that sluttiness or submissiveness has to be philosophically despised and politically punished. (The current Republican effort to ban contraception in the US is a blazingly clear example of what I mean.) But, just speaking for myself, I don't think there is anything philosophically wrong with being a slut and I don't see any reason why slutty behavior should be subject to state censure. In fact, speaking as one of the men who the current system is designed to benefit, I wish my culture had given me more license to be a slut as opposed to a stud (i.e., someone who pursues and revels in indulgence even to the point of humiliation as opposed to someone who pursues and revels in control even to the point of humiliating others).

So, I dunno, I'm sure there are lots of women who like taking a pie to the face just as much as I do. But those women exist in the same world I do, which is a world where anyone who stands up in public and says "Sometimes I like taking a pie in the face" (let alone "I get a massive kick out of the idea of being gangbanged"!) is all but certain to have their character assassinated and is not unlikely to be directly harassed if not physically attacked. And if I, as a man, am afraid of those consequences, how can I reasonably expect women to be braver? Like, some are, obviously. Flora is one, Jayce is one, Creamy is one, etc. etc. But on a population level, it has to be harrowing as shit to be a woman who feels this way. And until that changes, I don't think we have any good way at all of knowing how many women are or could be into this fetish.

(tl;dr stop, Pringado, you're not helping)

This should be pinned to the top of every single fetish community

This is pretty cool! Thank you.

Thanks! I'm a lifelong feminist and since my 20s supporter of LGBT+ rights, so I'm fairly aware of a lot of the issues around sexuality and equality, and a lot of issues around sex worker rights too.


I would say yes, and that among any people with a shred of decency, that shouldn't be a problem. The key concept is "contex" - chosing to be a sex object in specific contexts, like in a video or at a suitable club or venue, or indeed at home in private with chosen partner(s) is perfectly fine - and people should recognise that in situations outwith those contexts, treating you in that way is inappropriate.

To give a personal example, to me the sexiest outfit any woman can wear is a boilersuit and wellies. And indeed I've shot multiple scenes with women dressed like that covering each other in mud or gunge, who knew they were taking part in fetish videos that I and others could and did wank to - they were willing sex objects in that context. However, you won't find me hanging around engineering works or motorway roadworks in the hope of oggling women engineers going about their business - because in that context it'd be totally inappropriate.

So you should be free to be as slutty, sex-objecty, and submissive as you like, in the appropriate contexts, without that having the slightest bearing on how people, including the other people involved in those events, treat you or anyone else outside of those situations.

In the longer term though, "slut" needs to be elevated until it commands every bit as much respect as "stud" does, with women who are skilled and experienced at sex being equally seen as people to admire and respect. The whole "virginity cult" needs to die by fire, along with the idea that partners somehow "own" each other - people are not things.

My last input to this. I'm a "maturer" lady nowadays. I know that this is an adult site, but before someone comments or sends a photo, be aware of who is getting it. Just because I share my content, doesn't mean to say I and other females want to see your penis or similar. Maybe, its me, but growing up a guy wouldn't introduce himself by getting his penis out. Not until the third date at least

I once spoke with a couples counsellor who had studied sexual fetishes. He had told me that men outnumber women by a huge percentage as far as ANY fetishes go. You don't (at least I'm not aware of any) see a woman drooling over a man's shoes or feet, or being into many kinks, compared to men. A woman's sexuality uses more of her emotions, so a romantic setting, candles, soft music, etc. will work better where a man's sexuality is based on physical attraction, so looks, clothing, hair, makeup, and of course kinks including wam, are more likely to be a male thing.

Having said that, I'm very lucky that my wife is into wam - and not just because I am.

They are out there. My first gf was the one to introduce me to messy fun.

We are out there. Just more reserved and guarded then men. Things are a lot different now though to when I was growing up. I don't that we will ever see parity, but it moves that way every few years.

I'd say you are right to a degree. Physical feelings for most women normally has an emotional attachment. Men seem more capable of detaching the two IMHO.

I can remember one session where I wondered if the woman I had arranged to meet was really into it or just in role as part of my gungy experience....but...nope, wow, she really *really* seemed to be enjoying herself. If she's on here and happens to read this, I hope she says hey...

Soooooo look. Obviously this sucks. You're right to describe this type of behavior as inhumane, and you're right to say that it should never happen.

But.


It sounds like you're being wildly optimistic here, to the point where you come off as being actually very ignorant. I'm going to talk mostly about the US because that's where I live, but I imagine that most of this will be true in Canada, western Europe, and so on.

First off, the police here are not even close to reliable. Among people who work professionally trying to help women who've been abused, there's an overwhelming consensus that "police sometimes or often do not believe victims or blame victims for the violence. Advocates identified police inaction, hostility, and bias against survivors as key barriers to seeking intervention from the criminal justice system."[1] There are even some cops who are willing to admit that their fellow officers "rarely believed a rape victim."[2] Earlier in the 2000s, there were reports of American cities where cops had let upwards of TEN THOUSAND reported rapes go uninvestigated.[3]

In fact, it's trivially easy to find examples of women who were killed by men in their lives despite restraining orders, calls to 911, and so on. It took me about 3 minutes of internet searching to find these:

- PROTECTIVE MEASURES FAILED: PLAINFIELD WOMAN KILLED BY ESTRANGED EX-HUSBAND DESPITE RESTRAINING ORDER (https://usnn.com/protective-measures-failed-plainfield-woman-killed-by-estranged-ex-husband-despite-restraining-order/)

- Big Island Woman Killed Despite A Restraining Order Against Ex-Boyfriend (https://www.civilbeat.org/2024/01/big-island-woman-killed-despite-a-restraining-order-against-ex-boyfriend/)

- Michigan woman killed by estranged husband called 911 days after requesting a protection order that was denied (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-tirany-savage-called-911-after-filing-protection-order-rcna39422)

- Iowa town police repeatedly ignored restraining order before woman's murder (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2024/04/12/bellevue-iowa-woman-murdered-after-cops-ignored-restraining-order-lawsuit-says/73282590007/)

I could go on, but you get the point. America is pretty far from being the egalitarian utopia you seem to think it is, and that has fuck-all to do with people "coming here." Those people are already here: they were born and raised in America, they have American values, and they fit into mainstream American society. That's the definition of patriarchy.

So, look, if your media is making it look like foreigners are the problem, then you should really ask yourself why they're working so hard to push that narrative and who they're trying to protect. Because they're not trying to protect women. Even if we closed our borders today and never let another human being enter the country ever again, that would not make women here any safer. And, again, I'm not saying that some places aren't better than others. I'd sure as hell rather live in America than Saudi Arabia. But you're not going to help anybody by swallowing whatever comforting lies you've been sold or blaming everything on people whose religion makes them a convenient target.

1 https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-report-examines-why-victims-domestic-and-sexual-violence-dont-call-police
2 https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/06/why-cops-dont-believe-rape-victims-and-how-brain-science-can-solve-the-problem.html
3 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/an-epidemic-of-disbelief/592807/

I am a siren