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"Age verification is here"
Love you, too
DungeonMasterOne said:
Personally, I trust my ID rather more on MM's hard drive than some huge anonymous company. I trust MM, an unknown organisation with hundreds or thousands of staff, less so.
Personally, I trust my ID rather more on MM's hard drive than some huge anonymous company. I trust MM, an unknown organisation with hundreds or thousands of staff, less so.
It's possible I'm missing something here, but to make sure I understand it:
If we're looking to VIEW explicit content and verifying our age via ID through those third party providers, all they do is kick a thumbs up to MM that the account associated with the ID is of the proper age, right? MM doesn't get anything more than the green light?
Whereas if we're PRODUCING content and want the green checkmark, then we need to go through MM to get those documents on file and whatnot in case law enforcement comes to him about an investigation (or whatever)?
Edit: apologies if this is already addressed, this thread got a lot longer since my last visit...
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
JazzTalker said: It's possible I'm missing something here, but to make sure I understand it:
If we're looking to VIEW explicit content and verifying our age via ID through those third party providers, all they do is kick a thumbs up to MM that the account associated with the ID is of the proper age, right? MM doesn't get anything more than the green light?
Whereas if we're PRODUCING content and want the green checkmark, then we need to go through MM to get those documents on file and whatnot in case law enforcement comes to him about an investigation (or whatever)?
If we're looking to VIEW explicit content and verifying our age via ID through those third party providers, all they do is kick a thumbs up to MM that the account associated with the ID is of the proper age, right? MM doesn't get anything more than the green light?
Whereas if we're PRODUCING content and want the green checkmark, then we need to go through MM to get those documents on file and whatnot in case law enforcement comes to him about an investigation (or whatever)?
You've nailed it, that's exactly right.
tribeTNG said: Sorry if this has been answered already (I haven't read every post)
If i don't do the age verification thing I eventually lose access to my UND account? / find that the site is now restricted? Do I have that right? I'm in the UK.
If i don't do the age verification thing I eventually lose access to my UND account? / find that the site is now restricted? Do I have that right? I'm in the UK.
I think with our laws here, you'd lose access to all the X and R rated content and images, but still be able to see the site, log in, and see the fully clothed non-sexual content.
If MM hadn't implemented any of this, then eventually the site would have been ordered blocked by Ofcom and become inaccessible from a consumer broadband or mobile connection. But because he has implememented it, UMD is compliant and there should be no requirement to block it in the UK, as long as the filtering to stop non-age-verified accounts or users seeing X and R content goes on working.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
Did I miss a list of the states requiring this?
pieandslimeonly said: Did I miss a list of the states requiring this?
States and countries are listed here: User Verification FAQ
The UK allows age verification via a credit card check
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/protecting-children/age-checks-for-online-safety--what-you-need-to-know-as-a-user
I noticed that the Verification FAQs says that other means of age verification may be added and there are companies that offer age verification via a credit card check on the principle that you must be over 18 to have a credit card.
Is it possible that UK residents, who make up a substantial proportion of UMD members, could be allowed to verify via a credit card check or is that too complicated? (I do appreciate from reading the FAQs that a credit card check may not be sufficient for some Governments). Personally I would prefer a credit card check if it was available as an option.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/protecting-children/age-checks-for-online-safety--what-you-need-to-know-as-a-user
I noticed that the Verification FAQs says that other means of age verification may be added and there are companies that offer age verification via a credit card check on the principle that you must be over 18 to have a credit card.
Is it possible that UK residents, who make up a substantial proportion of UMD members, could be allowed to verify via a credit card check or is that too complicated? (I do appreciate from reading the FAQs that a credit card check may not be sufficient for some Governments). Personally I would prefer a credit card check if it was available as an option.
Veriff vs. Yoti: Privacy and Security Comparison
Data Protection Compliance
Both companies claim compliance with major privacy regulations:
Veriff adheres to GDPR, CCPA, and LGPD frameworks and has developed a specific GDPR compliance framework
Yoti operates under GDPR/UK Data Protection Act 2018 and has a Privacy Governance Framework
Security Measures
Veriff employs "security by design" philosophy with advanced technical measures and regular data protection impact assessments
Yoti uses TLS 1.2 encryption for transmitted images and has an independent ethics board (Guardian Council)
Privacy Concerns
The search results reveal some significant concerns with Yoti:
Yoti has been found to "extensively track users without consent, likely in violation of GDPR"
Even when accessing their privacy policy page, Yoti loads third-party resources without explicit consent, potentially transferring IP addresses and other data to Google and other providers
They use a webview in their mobile app that loads webpages without user consent, triggering data transmissions
Data Storage and Processing
Veriff states they conduct regular risk evaluations and apply mitigation strategies for personal data processing
Yoti claims captured images aren't stored locally but are transmitted securely to their Age Scan service
Both companies may use authorized subprocessors for identity verification services
Recommendation
Given the specific privacy concerns raised about Yoti's tracking practices and potential GDPR violations, Veriff appears to be the better option if privacy is your primary concern. While both companies claim compliance with privacy regulations, the documented issues with Yoti's consent mechanisms and third-party data sharing suggest greater risk to your personal information.
Data Protection Compliance
Both companies claim compliance with major privacy regulations:
Veriff adheres to GDPR, CCPA, and LGPD frameworks and has developed a specific GDPR compliance framework
Yoti operates under GDPR/UK Data Protection Act 2018 and has a Privacy Governance Framework
Security Measures
Veriff employs "security by design" philosophy with advanced technical measures and regular data protection impact assessments
Yoti uses TLS 1.2 encryption for transmitted images and has an independent ethics board (Guardian Council)
Privacy Concerns
The search results reveal some significant concerns with Yoti:
Yoti has been found to "extensively track users without consent, likely in violation of GDPR"
Even when accessing their privacy policy page, Yoti loads third-party resources without explicit consent, potentially transferring IP addresses and other data to Google and other providers
They use a webview in their mobile app that loads webpages without user consent, triggering data transmissions
Data Storage and Processing
Veriff states they conduct regular risk evaluations and apply mitigation strategies for personal data processing
Yoti claims captured images aren't stored locally but are transmitted securely to their Age Scan service
Both companies may use authorized subprocessors for identity verification services
Recommendation
Given the specific privacy concerns raised about Yoti's tracking practices and potential GDPR violations, Veriff appears to be the better option if privacy is your primary concern. While both companies claim compliance with privacy regulations, the documented issues with Yoti's consent mechanisms and third-party data sharing suggest greater risk to your personal information.
I'm in the UK, and I'm not handing any details over. So I wonder if I'll be able to get by on PG stuff alone. I always maintain that it's the pie/slime in the face that gets me off, not nudity - though if nudity is there, I certainly don't turn my face away from it.
So, Wam Bagheera, The Man and the Wife, Slapstick Stuff, Sooty ... there must be many others ...
So, Wam Bagheera, The Man and the Wife, Slapstick Stuff, Sooty ... there must be many others ...
Co-signing on the ask if a different type of verification can be added (particularly with the Yoti concerns above) I've so far verified on Just For Fans, Manyvids, and one indie site (can't remember the name of the verification processor, sorry) and *none* of them required me to upload any documents.
I have no objection to providing a selfie for age verification, but I do draw the line at my passport (which is the only form of photo ID I have)
I have no objection to providing a selfie for age verification, but I do draw the line at my passport (which is the only form of photo ID I have)
LSPP said: Starmer ( our Fuhrer here ) didnt do a great deal about the grooming gangs over here yet is pretending that seeing a pair of boobs will corrupt kids for life . Personally Id rather my kids be safe from grooming gangs ( if I had kids ) . If the Globalist Digital ID isnt stopped it will then be followed by the Globalist Digital Currency tied to the Digital ID and then the Social Credit Score . And if that happens , basically , we're ALL f***ed ! So called ' conspiracy theory ' is rapidly becoming conspiracy FACT ! And before anyone asks , Im not a tory , Im not a reform supporter , Im not a green party supporter , in fact I dont support ANY politicians because I think they are ALL corrupt and only serve their elite paymasters rather than , you know , the people that actually vote them in at the ballot box . Starmer is so ' democratic ' he's already cancelled local elections because he knows he's about as popular as herpes in a brothel
Not the place, but i wanted to correct you.
Starmer changed the rules at the CPS so that victims were listened to and prosecutions began to take place.
If you want kids to be on porn sites, there is something wrong with you.
Council elections are being moved because of changes to councils at the request of councils, its got nothing to do with the PM or government at all, other than the fact they have to agree to the requests.
Verified.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
Wakka said: There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Those laws don't exist everywhere. I can tell you they don't in the states with as many times as my information has been misused from Hospitals to the Division of Motor Vehicles. The DMV are why you get those car insurance calls.
Wakka said: I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
Where are these wam nightclubs? And did they keep your ID forever or did they just have a bouncer look at it and forget about you?
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
DinnerKnickers said:
Where are these wam nightclubs? And did they keep your ID forever or did they just have a bouncer look at it and forget about you?
Wakka said: I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
Where are these wam nightclubs? And did they keep your ID forever or did they just have a bouncer look at it and forget about you?
In the US you have to show ID on the door of all clubs, caught me out the first time I went back in 03. Back then I think they just checked you were over 18.
BUT: Here in the UK now, go to any nightclub in central London and they take, scan, and record full ID details - driving license or passport - for entry as part of the licensing conditions. Been like that for a good few years now and applies to everyone. And unlike online, you can't get round it with a VPN. No ID, no entry, no arguments accepted. I don't go clubing as much as I once did so don't know about the rest of the country, but if it's not the same yet it's probably coming.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
DungeonMasterOne said: BUT: Here in the UK now, go to any nightclub in central London and they take, scan, and record full ID details - driving license or passport - for entry as part of the licensing conditions. Been like that for a good few years now and applies to everyone. And unlike online, you can't get round it with a VPN. No ID, no entry, no arguments accepted. I don't go clubing as much as I once did so don't know about the rest of the country, but if it's not the same yet it's probably coming.
That's interesting - I don't go clubbing (and I no longer live in London) so I've never encountered that. Looking online, this seems to be part of the operating licence from the local council (e.g. London Borough of Islington). I don't think it's about age verification so much as watching for troublemakers. E.g. if there's a fight, the police will know exactly who was on the premises, and if you get banned from one club then you can automatically get banned from all the others.
By contrast, I've never had my passport scanned in a pub, even when buying alcohol. Ditto when I buy age-restricted items at the supermarket; the cashier just presses the button to say "This person is obviously over 25, no ID required".
The closest I've come to that is when I went to a Wetherspoons pub in Cardiff on a Saturday morning. I wasn't planning to buy alcohol, just get a cooked breakfast. However, the bouncers asked to see my driving licence, then said that I wasn't allowed in because I live in Bristol. It turned out that there was a football match happening that day, so they were worried about fights between rival supporters. I'm not a football fan, so I wasn't going to start any trouble, but it sounds like I probably wouldn't have enjoyed being there anyway.
So, the recurring theme is that the ID checks are for bad behaviour, not age restriction.
Just a heads up for any of my fellow upsidedownlanders who havent verified yet (who knew the govt was pushing ahead with it? was news to me until i read MM's fact sheet in the OP):
if you, like me, have no need for a passport or a drivers licence and just have a plain ol' photo ID for ID'ing yourself, do not bother with yoti as it's not set up to accept them (plus the whole process is a nuisance).
Can confirm Veriff is the way to go as it (seems to) accept(s) any proper govt photo ID and you dont need to download anything at all. take a selfie, front and back of your ID and then bim bam boom done super quick.
if verriff wasnt there as an option, i'd probably have to give up on UMD (or maybe try to work something out with MM) so there's still a lot of kinks overall in the system for age verification.
if you, like me, have no need for a passport or a drivers licence and just have a plain ol' photo ID for ID'ing yourself, do not bother with yoti as it's not set up to accept them (plus the whole process is a nuisance).
Can confirm Veriff is the way to go as it (seems to) accept(s) any proper govt photo ID and you dont need to download anything at all. take a selfie, front and back of your ID and then bim bam boom done super quick.
if verriff wasnt there as an option, i'd probably have to give up on UMD (or maybe try to work something out with MM) so there's still a lot of kinks overall in the system for age verification.
Wakka said:
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Getting compensation might help mitigate any ill feeling someone experiences if their information is leaked, that's true. But for people on here who are not comfortable showing their face and want to keep their kink life and fetishes separate from their everyday life (which is a completely valid way to feel), I don't know how much money it would take to make them feel better about losing that privacy. That genie doesn't go back in the bottle.
The other thing with nightclubs is that whatever you do in there, you are doing as yourself. There is no expectation of any degree of anonymity since you are still in a public setting.
It is perfectly fine and reasonable for people to be okay with age or identity verification online. It is also perfectly fine and reasonable for people to not be okay with age or identity verification online.
My personal stance is that I would need to get a much better understanding of exactly how the data is handled and stored by all parties before I do age verification for ANY app or online site; kink or vanilla.
A clown at your service!
Messmaster said: Welcome to 2026 UMD! I hope your new year got off to a crazy, mucky start! Mine has 
Thanks to everybody for your patience as this announcement has been a long time coming. I didn't want to leave you hanging, but there were a lot of details to iron out before announcing how things are going to go with age verification. Hopefully this announcement brings clarity instead of just confusing everybody!
More and more jurisdictions around the world are requiring that adult sites use 3rd-party age-verification services to check your age before letting you view adult content, so for months I've been updating the site to stay compliant as these laws change. None of us asked to be put through this, so I'm doing my best to do just what's legally required while trying not to leave people behind.
Age verification is open
So far I've integrated Yoti and Veriff, so you can use either service to get verified right now. They're both free. The main difference is that Yoti requires a smart phone and app download while Veriff only requires a regular cell phone or computer that has a camera. You can get age-verified without a UMD account, but if you do have one, it'll be permanently marked as age-verified so you never have to go through the process again. UMD does't store any data from these services other than the yes/no response that you are at least 18 years old. Here are the links to get verified, also found in your preferences:
Verify through Yoti here.
Verify through Veriff here.
Read more details about each service in our Verification Services FAQ.
Age verification is separate from producer verification
Our billers have already required that we do "producer verification" (with the green checkmark) before you upload explicit content. Age verification is separate, as it's confirming you're an adult so you can view the explicit content. So even if you're already producer-verified, you may also want to get age-verified.
Who will be blocked?
Nothing will be blocked for people visiting from locations where age verification isn't required. If it's required and you choose not to verify, you won't lose your account or your content. Existing users will always be able to log in and use the site, plus access their profile, content, inbox, and records. For those affected, I'll also make a temporary bypass link available at first so that we can ease into this thing a little better. To know who needs to be verified, UMD uses an internally-hosted list of known locations that require verification, which you can see along with other details in our User Verification FAQ.
When will the blocks be activated?
I will activate the first blocks sometime in February, probably starting with Alabama and expanding to more states in alphabetical order. At some point I'll add blocks for the entire countries and other areas that require it. I'll be actively watching and moving deliberately because I want to keep disruption as minimal as possible.
What will be blocked?
Some jursdictions require us to block just the explicit content while others require blocking entire pages. UMD is set up to dynamically apply one or the other depending on your area. If you are affected, you might see blank images and videos scattered around, or you might see an entire page blocked.
Please label your content!
We have the ability to block just the explicit content instead of whole pages where legally allowed, but that will only work if the content is correctly labeled. So if you have content here, please go through all of your photos and videos, and label any R- or X-rated content. If you need help with tedious or bulk changes, contact me and I can probably help you from the backend.
Quick guidance about these ratings is on the R and X FAQ.
A full explanation about what is explicit is on our Parental Rating Guidelines.
Still serious about privacy
None of us is excited to expand our digital footprint, and these age verification companies do keep your data on-hand for a period of time for their own legal reasons. I chose these two services so far because they had good reputations, and I've signed up through them too! But corporations are corporations so I intend to be transparent about what I learn while researching and integrating all these services. I'll note anything I find on the Verification Services FAQ as time goes on. The reason we even have to choose government-issued ID for verification is because other technologies like AI age estimation aren't yet universally recognized as a valid way to verify age.
For more granular details about producer and age verification, see our User Verification FAQ.
For any issues or feedback, you can always contact me from the contact page.
I do plan on adding more age verification services eventually, so if anyone has any good experiences with other ones, please let me know. Huge thanks to the 400+ people who have already completed age verification, especially those who have given me feedback on their experience so far. Note that I will probably need to edit this post as time goes on, but I'll note any changes in a comment.
I know it sucks that we have to go through this, but compliance with the law isn't optional, so we might as well knock it out the park while still keeping our integrity. I really want this thread to be a place for a good discussion about how we can move forward together and transition into this new phase smoothly. So here's to a brand new year, and to new challenges to keep the messy vibe alive!
Peace,
Messmaster
Thanks to everybody for your patience as this announcement has been a long time coming. I didn't want to leave you hanging, but there were a lot of details to iron out before announcing how things are going to go with age verification. Hopefully this announcement brings clarity instead of just confusing everybody!
More and more jurisdictions around the world are requiring that adult sites use 3rd-party age-verification services to check your age before letting you view adult content, so for months I've been updating the site to stay compliant as these laws change. None of us asked to be put through this, so I'm doing my best to do just what's legally required while trying not to leave people behind.
Age verification is open
So far I've integrated Yoti and Veriff, so you can use either service to get verified right now. They're both free. The main difference is that Yoti requires a smart phone and app download while Veriff only requires a regular cell phone or computer that has a camera. You can get age-verified without a UMD account, but if you do have one, it'll be permanently marked as age-verified so you never have to go through the process again. UMD does't store any data from these services other than the yes/no response that you are at least 18 years old. Here are the links to get verified, also found in your preferences:
Verify through Yoti here.
Verify through Veriff here.
Read more details about each service in our Verification Services FAQ.
Age verification is separate from producer verification
Our billers have already required that we do "producer verification" (with the green checkmark) before you upload explicit content. Age verification is separate, as it's confirming you're an adult so you can view the explicit content. So even if you're already producer-verified, you may also want to get age-verified.
Who will be blocked?
Nothing will be blocked for people visiting from locations where age verification isn't required. If it's required and you choose not to verify, you won't lose your account or your content. Existing users will always be able to log in and use the site, plus access their profile, content, inbox, and records. For those affected, I'll also make a temporary bypass link available at first so that we can ease into this thing a little better. To know who needs to be verified, UMD uses an internally-hosted list of known locations that require verification, which you can see along with other details in our User Verification FAQ.
When will the blocks be activated?
I will activate the first blocks sometime in February, probably starting with Alabama and expanding to more states in alphabetical order. At some point I'll add blocks for the entire countries and other areas that require it. I'll be actively watching and moving deliberately because I want to keep disruption as minimal as possible.
What will be blocked?
Some jursdictions require us to block just the explicit content while others require blocking entire pages. UMD is set up to dynamically apply one or the other depending on your area. If you are affected, you might see blank images and videos scattered around, or you might see an entire page blocked.
Please label your content!
We have the ability to block just the explicit content instead of whole pages where legally allowed, but that will only work if the content is correctly labeled. So if you have content here, please go through all of your photos and videos, and label any R- or X-rated content. If you need help with tedious or bulk changes, contact me and I can probably help you from the backend.
Quick guidance about these ratings is on the R and X FAQ.
A full explanation about what is explicit is on our Parental Rating Guidelines.
Still serious about privacy
None of us is excited to expand our digital footprint, and these age verification companies do keep your data on-hand for a period of time for their own legal reasons. I chose these two services so far because they had good reputations, and I've signed up through them too! But corporations are corporations so I intend to be transparent about what I learn while researching and integrating all these services. I'll note anything I find on the Verification Services FAQ as time goes on. The reason we even have to choose government-issued ID for verification is because other technologies like AI age estimation aren't yet universally recognized as a valid way to verify age.
For more granular details about producer and age verification, see our User Verification FAQ.
For any issues or feedback, you can always contact me from the contact page.
I do plan on adding more age verification services eventually, so if anyone has any good experiences with other ones, please let me know. Huge thanks to the 400+ people who have already completed age verification, especially those who have given me feedback on their experience so far. Note that I will probably need to edit this post as time goes on, but I'll note any changes in a comment.
I know it sucks that we have to go through this, but compliance with the law isn't optional, so we might as well knock it out the park while still keeping our integrity. I really want this thread to be a place for a good discussion about how we can move forward together and transition into this new phase smoothly. So here's to a brand new year, and to new challenges to keep the messy vibe alive!
Peace,
Messmaster
I need to set something up like this for my website.
Please mess me up!
Wakka said: Verified.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
Nightclubs look at your ID and give them back. They don't make copies of them and keep them in a filing cabinet in the backroom and just hope nobody with ill intentions breaks into it. It's 100% reasonable people don't want their IDs stored on random servers on the internet, given with how often we hear about companies being hacked and information being stolen and sold on the black market.
Not to even mention the prospect of having your kinks and fetishes used against you. We saw what happened with Ashley Madison. My friends and family don't need to know what I get off on in comfort of my own home. And frankly I can't afford to pay a huge ransom to keep that information private.
Pieman said:
Nightclubs look at your ID and give them back. They don't make copies of them and keep them in a filing cabinet in the backroom and just hope nobody with ill intentions breaks into it. It's 100% reasonable people don't want their IDs stored on random servers on the internet, given with how often we hear about companies being hacked and information being stolen and sold on the black market.
Not to even mention the prospect of having your kinks and fetishes used against you. We saw what happened with Ashley Madison. My friends and family don't need to know what I get off on in comfort of my own home. And frankly I can't afford to pay a huge ransom to keep that information private.
Wakka said: Verified.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
There are laws in place to protect you and if your data is misused you have rights to compensation.
Tried out both journeys, Yoti is painful and annoying, if it even works; Verif was super easy and worked first time.
Go with them.
Nightclubs look at your ID and give them back. They don't make copies of them and keep them in a filing cabinet in the backroom and just hope nobody with ill intentions breaks into it. It's 100% reasonable people don't want their IDs stored on random servers on the internet, given with how often we hear about companies being hacked and information being stolen and sold on the black market.
Not to even mention the prospect of having your kinks and fetishes used against you. We saw what happened with Ashley Madison. My friends and family don't need to know what I get off on in comfort of my own home. And frankly I can't afford to pay a huge ransom to keep that information private.
I remember the Ashley Madison data breach was recently mentioned elsewhere. Looked it up and its a site that apparently sold to married folk seeking an affair (Site seems to be still active too). Which side note, pretty messed up but I digress. Anyways, the site had a data breach that exposed a couple thousand people's personal information. Among the info, it included users who had paid to have their data deleted, but they were never deleted and got released as well. Honestly crazy stuff and it reinforces people's worries about this
I've worked in the IT industry for over 40 years, including as a security consultant for governments and some of the largest finance companies in the world.
33 years ago (yes before the Internet) I did a tour of universities as a guest speaker informing students of the risks of being duped into providing Personally Identifiable Information (PID). As an example I demonstrated how that information was used and why it was so valuable. Before the internet our favourite magazine's used to run a two page competition in the centre pages that had a lucrative prize (usually a car). All you had to do was fill in a whole bunch of personal details and post it off, easy.
That data was then sold all over the world, in those days for $100 a pop. To prove it I created a pseudonym and filled in competitions for magazines. As a result I received tons of junk mail addressed to the pseudonym from all over the world for years afterwards.
It's a lot more sophisticated and easier to collect this information nowadays, in fact people give it away for free (Facebook etc.).
The reason most of these age verification organisations are private is because governments can't be seen to be culpable if you data gets out. That said the data they're asking you to provide is likely already out there.
But let's not be under any illusion the government's don't give a darn about our kid's welfare. If the did they'd stop child trafficking and child grooming gangs.
Unfortunately the governments use poor guys like Messmaster and UMD to support their private agendas. Personal information is the most valuable commodity on earth. The more information they have on you the more they can control you.
Freedom of speech will be the next thing to go.
This is the world we now live in
33 years ago (yes before the Internet) I did a tour of universities as a guest speaker informing students of the risks of being duped into providing Personally Identifiable Information (PID). As an example I demonstrated how that information was used and why it was so valuable. Before the internet our favourite magazine's used to run a two page competition in the centre pages that had a lucrative prize (usually a car). All you had to do was fill in a whole bunch of personal details and post it off, easy.
That data was then sold all over the world, in those days for $100 a pop. To prove it I created a pseudonym and filled in competitions for magazines. As a result I received tons of junk mail addressed to the pseudonym from all over the world for years afterwards.
It's a lot more sophisticated and easier to collect this information nowadays, in fact people give it away for free (Facebook etc.).
The reason most of these age verification organisations are private is because governments can't be seen to be culpable if you data gets out. That said the data they're asking you to provide is likely already out there.
But let's not be under any illusion the government's don't give a darn about our kid's welfare. If the did they'd stop child trafficking and child grooming gangs.
Unfortunately the governments use poor guys like Messmaster and UMD to support their private agendas. Personal information is the most valuable commodity on earth. The more information they have on you the more they can control you.
Freedom of speech will be the next thing to go.
This is the world we now live in
Looking at this closer since I am temporarily in Florida, I noticed that Florida law specifically requires that sites must offer at least one "anonymous age verification" service (Florida Statute 501.1737(2): https://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.1737.html). "Anonymous age verification" is defined by Florida Statute 501.1738 (https://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.1738.html), and surprisingly and non-obviously includes the requirements that the company providing the service must be "organized under the laws of a state of the United States", have "its principal place of business in a state of the United States", and must "not owned or controlled by a company formed in a foreign country, a government of a foreign country, or any other entity formed in a foreign country".
A brief bit of Googling shows that Yoti is a British company, while Veriff is an Estonian company. Even if they have US-based subsidiaries, the third quote above is still problematic.
Is there any plan in place yet to provide verification through a US-based provider without foreign control, to comply with Florida law?
(To be clear, I am absolutely against age verification in any form, and I have no plans to verify my age unless the entire site becomes completely inaccessible in its entirety without it, as I prefer to get my WAM fix from non-explicit, fully clothed content anyway. But at the same time, I don't want UMD to risk getting shut down or fined out of existence for noncompliance in the meantime.)
A brief bit of Googling shows that Yoti is a British company, while Veriff is an Estonian company. Even if they have US-based subsidiaries, the third quote above is still problematic.
Is there any plan in place yet to provide verification through a US-based provider without foreign control, to comply with Florida law?
(To be clear, I am absolutely against age verification in any form, and I have no plans to verify my age unless the entire site becomes completely inaccessible in its entirety without it, as I prefer to get my WAM fix from non-explicit, fully clothed content anyway. But at the same time, I don't want UMD to risk getting shut down or fined out of existence for noncompliance in the meantime.)
No pics of myself for professional reasons.
DinnerKnickers said:
Where are these wam nightclubs? And did they keep your ID forever or did they just have a bouncer look at it and forget about you?
Wakka said: I don't understand the opposition to showing your id. You used to have to when you were 19 going to nightclubs.
Where are these wam nightclubs? And did they keep your ID forever or did they just have a bouncer look at it and forget about you?
Better yet did they sell it "lose it in a data breach" after they said they'd quickly delete them after it went into their database.
Thanks for your explanations, DungeonMasterOne, which allay my fears somewhat. I don't have an issue with using online ID checkers. I use them myself for work (in a completely different industry, I might add). My only issue would be if umd or the ID checking org gets hacked and my irl identity gets leaked as a umd user, which could be very embarrasing. As I now understand it, there is very little chance of that happening. If the ID company gets hacked, all that would be leaked is the fact I have had my age checked there, and not which website requested that check.
More to the point, I need to address some incredibly naive views being bandied about on here, to the effect that this ID checking isn't worth bothering because it won't stop children addressing porn. Well, it's either wilful naivety or right-wing fundamentalism.
I am a long time umd user and a parent of two children. I am also very tech-savvy. Despite that, navigating internet use is a nightmare for modern parents. We use an array of parental control software on our children's devices but it involves constant juggling, because there's no single way of controlling access to their phones (through data and wi-fi), consoles, tablets, PCs and the TV, but most parents simply don't have the know-how to do all of this.
Mostly, I'm not concerned about them accessing a bit of porn when they are, say, 16 or 17 and getting curious about their sexuality. However, do I want my 12 year old stumbling across hard-core porn because he puts the wrong search terms in? What about when he was 8? Still on the internet, just not ready for viewing naked men with erections online. My son is very excited to have just been bought a 3d printer. Do you know how popular sex toys are on 3d printing websites?! Sure, the pictures are blocked by our safety net of software, but its difficult enough when your son says "Daddy, what's a Valentine butt plug?" I don't need him stumbling across sexually explicit material.
And no, it's not the same as when you were a kid and you found a collection of magazines in the garden shed, or whatever. Printed media was a finite resource which doesn't stimulate (or damage) the young brain in anything like the way that videos do. Also print media like magazines are a limited in quantity by their very nature. The internet offers a virtually infinite supply or material and describing it as a "supply" is apposite, because the brain responds to it in a similar way to how the brain responds to addiction. This is not just my opinion, by this point. There's plentiful well-researched science behind the damage that porn, social media and the combination of both do to developing brains.
Of course, a determined teenager will probably find ways to circumvent whatever rules, boundaries or restrictions we put in place, but can't we agree to not make it easy for them to do this?
More to the point, I need to address some incredibly naive views being bandied about on here, to the effect that this ID checking isn't worth bothering because it won't stop children addressing porn. Well, it's either wilful naivety or right-wing fundamentalism.
I am a long time umd user and a parent of two children. I am also very tech-savvy. Despite that, navigating internet use is a nightmare for modern parents. We use an array of parental control software on our children's devices but it involves constant juggling, because there's no single way of controlling access to their phones (through data and wi-fi), consoles, tablets, PCs and the TV, but most parents simply don't have the know-how to do all of this.
Mostly, I'm not concerned about them accessing a bit of porn when they are, say, 16 or 17 and getting curious about their sexuality. However, do I want my 12 year old stumbling across hard-core porn because he puts the wrong search terms in? What about when he was 8? Still on the internet, just not ready for viewing naked men with erections online. My son is very excited to have just been bought a 3d printer. Do you know how popular sex toys are on 3d printing websites?! Sure, the pictures are blocked by our safety net of software, but its difficult enough when your son says "Daddy, what's a Valentine butt plug?" I don't need him stumbling across sexually explicit material.
And no, it's not the same as when you were a kid and you found a collection of magazines in the garden shed, or whatever. Printed media was a finite resource which doesn't stimulate (or damage) the young brain in anything like the way that videos do. Also print media like magazines are a limited in quantity by their very nature. The internet offers a virtually infinite supply or material and describing it as a "supply" is apposite, because the brain responds to it in a similar way to how the brain responds to addiction. This is not just my opinion, by this point. There's plentiful well-researched science behind the damage that porn, social media and the combination of both do to developing brains.
Of course, a determined teenager will probably find ways to circumvent whatever rules, boundaries or restrictions we put in place, but can't we agree to not make it easy for them to do this?
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