Dear Messmaster & the community,

I am leaving UMD.

The thread and my direct messages with MM have made it abundantly clear that women are not safe here and that the users and owner of the site do not know how to keep women safe nor do they want to learn.

I am heartbroken.
MM: I trusted you to do everything in your power to protect the women here and I cannot believe how naive I was.
You are not the person I thought you were.

I am not staying in a community where it is clear that if I am assaulted by someone else here, you won't ban them. You will even allow the community to debate my abuser's conviction and discuss how likely it is that I am lying, and allow my abuser to post in the thread to convince people he should be forgiven, welcomed back with open arms and carry on as normal doing the same job he used to sexually assault someone.

It was your duty to protect the victim of this from having her trauma discussed, from having people speculate about who she might be, from being painted as a vindictive and dishonest person who has destroyed an innocent man's life. There is a real person who has gone through this. She did not deserve to have what happened to her treated like something that needs further investigation and discussion by the members of UMD. This thread has unsurprisingly been treated like a tabloid article for people to use to entertain themselves and it sickens me.
You have let her down and I don't have any faith that you wouldn't let me down too.

There is no such thing as remaining neutral when it comes to convicted sex offenders. If you do not take a strong stance against it and commit to believing victims after someone has been convicted in court, if you do not use the power you have to set an example, you are culpable. You are contributing to rape culture by not standing up for us and kicking abusers off your site. You are showing other producers that they can abuse their models and you will give them the benefit of the doubt and a chance to control the narrative by posting their side of what happened all over the thread. No matter what is said now, even if the victim said what happened, even if court transcripts were posted, there will be people who've seen what he said first and have already made their minds up to support him. You are more concerned about not upsetting people who want to gossip about this than the fact someone got abused by a member here. There is no such thing as "hearing both sides of the story" when someone has already been convicted of a sex offence. That ship has sailed. If you cannot rely on a legal conviction to trust that someone presents a danger you are beyond help.

This thread should not have been allowed to happen. You should have closed it for further replies as soon as the news article was confirmed to be real and about Leon.

Women are already outnumbered by men here by a huge margin. People who purchase Leon's videos are not the ones at risk here - why does their opinion matter equally as much to you as the people actually affected? This is like asking a group of 90 mice and 10 ants if you should let an anteater stay.

Leaving it open for "debate" in a space full of men who don't respect us and people whose main interest is ensuring that they can continue to buy their favourite porn is a despicable thing to do to the victim of this crime. You can still ask people to share their thoughts with you privately. You can still discuss it with store owners and models who are the people who will actually be impacted by whatever decision you take. Whether or not models and other users should be protected from someone convicted of a sex offence should not be up for debate. You should already know the answer to this. If you have to ask the community what to do in this situation, you have already failed us.

Allowing the entire community to decide the outcome proves to women that as long as there aren't enough of us here to outweigh the misogynists, you'll carry on supporting whichever side has the loudest voices and excuse yourself of your own responsibility to handle this.

Every other site would have banned him immediately. Christ, I knew this site is stuck in 1999 but I didn't think it went to this extent.

You've already decided he doesn't present a risk to models because he's not a serial rapist according to your message to me. You are worried that he is being treated like a rapist. Why does the extent of the sexual assault matter? I explained to you that I have suffered just as much harm from "lesser" sexual assault as when I've actually been raped. There is no level of sexual violence which is acceptable.

Why do you think you have any ability to decide on behalf of women that he is unlikely he is to harm them?
It's your job to make decisions that will protect the most vulnerable people here and set community standards, but it's clear that if the majority of the community response is "Leon shouldn't be banned" you'll accept that and let him stay because you aren't brave enough to risk uproar from people who have nothing to lose if he stays.
Even if there's only a 1% chance he'll do it again, are you really happy to roll that dice knowing what will happen if you are wrong?



Honestly, how dare you.

How dare you even consider letting someone who has narrowly avoided prison for sexually assaulting a woman stay here.

The women here know there are other people who act inappropriately online and offline, who have a history of abusing their models, who have been allowed to remain part of this community. We share information with each other to stay safe from the dangerous people here and must talk amongst ourselves because we know that any public accusations short of a conviction will be handwaved away - and this has shown that even with a conviction, there's a chance that'll happen.

You allow predators to stay here, and you allow the community to protect them with your refusal to do your job. You already fucked up by allowing anglefan to stay here and this was your chance to show you realise that was wrong and do better this time.

It has taken multiple models sharing our own personal stories of sexual abuse, in public, in front of our fans, friends & colleagues, for the thread to get to the point where there is actual support for banning him.

We should not have had to lay our own trauma out for the masses for the peanut gallery to gawp at and be scandalised by in order for this to be taken seriously. The people most impacted by this and most at risk are having to do the work to explain why this is unacceptable. This is unfair.
We wouldn't have had to do it if you had done the right thing from the start.

We are sick of having to battle this on our own and you let us down. You missed your chance to prove that you are willing to stand up and fight against abuse with us.

I am done.

I already stepped down as a mod but I am leaving UMD completely and permanently. Staying here means condoning what you have done, accepting this culture, and putting myself at risk of harm because you allow abusers to stay here. I would rather lose the money I earn from this place and eat plain rice 3 times a day than support a site that does not support women.

My stores will close when my ad credits run out, after which point I will also remove all free videos and photos so that UMD will not benefit from any cut of my content sales or any traffic to my profile. I will close my stores sooner if I receive a refund for my ad credits although I will not get my hopes up for this happening.

I will continue to sell my content on other sites but if anyone wants to purchase through UMD this is their only warning that they should do this soon. I will not delete my profile because I do not want the contributions I have made in threads to be removed, but I will update my profile to make it clear that I no longer use this site in protest of the way sex offenders are protected here. I will not post in the forums or respond to messages again. Any posts regarding other projects or events I am involved with will be made by someone else.

I encourage any model who agrees that UMD does not do enough to protect us and is unable to leave the site entirely because they are reliant on it for income to close their store or stop posting temporarily. This place might start to realise how much they need to listen to us if we show them what it will look like once we've given up and left.

Thank you to the people who made this place bearable over the years. Keep fighting for us, we are too exhausted to win this war alone.
Solidarity with all women, trans, and queer members and all survivors of sexual violence. I am so sorry that I could not find the strength and the right solutions to make this place safe for us.

@PennyBanks, I'm sorry this is how it had to go, but I understand where you're coming from and support your decision. All of us will miss you dearly, you're truly a lovely person and entertainer. Please do let some of us know where to find you in the future, curvy women who actually enjoy mess are few and far between!

"There is no such thing as remaining neutral when it comes to convicted sex offenders."

That's the heart of it right there. I'm disgusted but not surprised by how many people seem to not grasp this point.

Do better.

you have my support on this and 100% agree ..

And that's the problem right there, why is there any need for a protracted debate or anything to decide? Model sexually assaulted by producer should equal instant removal from the site. If not then why would any women feel safe here?

This right here 100%

I loved how when this truth came out, the UMD's response was to delete the links and thread. They love protecting scumbags, like that one producer who is still here with multiple allegations about jerking off during shoots. Meanwhile, they virtue signal all day long.

$$$ is the only thing Derek cares about.

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in this one: we have an imperative to keep our community safe, and those with power within communities have the strongest imperative of all.

This is beyond any talk of fetish, kink, sex/uality, whatever. I'd be saying the same in any community, whether that's fetish, a workplace, a board games group. The only difference is the exceptional vulnerability performers place themselves in, which if anything, just strengthens what I'm saying. This is about how we support our fellow human beings to be safe.

If you have the power, the knowledge and the resources to make some element of your world a safer place, and it's not a significant burden on you, then do. All this talk of "letting the market decide" - I'd like to think that we are fucking better than that. The "market" is hardly the arbiter of morality, or else our would be rid of exploitative labour, slavery and abuse. We are better than merely being ruled by capitalism.

I don't have a store to close or my own work to stop promoting. I fully support those who choose to do these things, Penny and all others. It still shouldn't have come to this.

We can go home right here. Full stop.

Thank you Penny for all the work you have done and for everything you have shared. You have done more to fight against the predators that hide in this kink than anyone I know of. There are so many out there that people do not know about. I wish that things would have gone differently. I still have a little hope that MM will put people above profits.

I think there should be an alternative the the umd, this entire process has been awful awful awful and shown their true colors. They've silenced and removed links showing this abusive behavior, they are protecting abusers.

I am TOTALLY in agreement with you on this Penny. We all know that what has happened in the past few years with Savile, Weinstein and the rest of these sick individuals that some would rather ignore it and say it never happened than acknowledge the truth. I feel the exact same with paedophilia - many people are prepared to turn a blind eye to it, or because it doesn't affect them or any of their family it's not important.

WELL IT IS. Sexual assault, no matter how minor some may think the offence is, is totally unacceptable in any shape or form.

I wish you well in all your future endeavours Penny.

Without dismissing or minimizing anything else that Penny said, I'm worried about this piece.

First, as a meta issue, it makes me uncomfortable that there appears to be a double-standard in play with respect to how authorities make these decisions. From my perspective, it looks like "the community" gets to sort of discuss and debate all the aspects of this situation *except* what (some of) the admins are thinking. That strikes me as unreasonable and potentially dangerous. If we believe that a bunch of random people on the internet are qualified to pore over legal decisions (often made in countries where we don't even live) and dissect people's personalities (often without ever having met them), then presumably we should also be qualified to opine on our admins' decision-making process.

Or, to flip it around the other way, if these types of administrative conversations happen privately, then let's maybe just make that the policy, close threads ASAP, and tell everyone that decisions are being made privately. Basically, in other words, imo the admins should be subject to at least as much public scrutiny as, for example, a model who reports sexual assault.

Second, I have to say that I'm very skeptical that MM or anyone else knows how much of a risk Leon poses to his models. Again, if we could get an explanation then maybe I'd feel more at ease (...maybe...), but at the moment this sounds like a wild-ass guess. Think about it this way: before any of this happened, presumably we all would've guessed that he posed marginal to no risk, right? And yet we all would have been wrong, evidently. Surely we should learn from that.

Third, it feels very iffy to make decisions based on what we're "treating someone like." To me, it's strictly a question of the punishment fitting the crime. The crime, in this case, is molesting an employee. (Or, y'know, maybe not legally an "employee" because of contractual status or whatever, but you get the point.) I'm not sure how we overlook that. I mean, if your boss groped one of your coworkers, you'd want that person gone, right? I don't know if that means you'd be "treating your boss like a rapist" or not. Frankly, I don't care. To me, that whole way of thinking is just totally irrelevant.

Which, speaking of that, four: it feels an awful lot like wide swaths of the community and also some admins are treating this as a personal issue - i.e., "what should we do about our longtime friend/acquaintance/notable figure Leon." All this stuff about what he's like or where his head is or how it would make him look if he was banned - all of that feels like people are trying to make this about Leon-the-whole-person. But, like, Leon-the-whole-person doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he produces great content or volunteers at a soup kitchen on the weekends or likes to listen to classical music or whatever.

Look at it like this, if it helps: the Boston Celtics suspended their extremely successful, much-beloved head coach for a year for breaking *company* policy. (And if you stop to think about it, there's not much of a path for him to come back and coach for them again.) We're talking about someone who broke *the law.* If they can do the right things even after paying the guy millions of dollars and having him be extremely good at his job, I don't see why we can't do the same.

I absolutely agree with your choice, Penny. The fact that this has happened is an absolute disgrace to the community. It's truly sad when actual victims are being told that they are lying and or seeking attention.

This really makes me question my future on the site as well.

I and along with many other in the community wish you the absolute best in the future. We all want to see you happy and successful.

Props to Penny for putting her income on the line.

The reality is that this sort of thing is clearly not acceptable.

It also gives the website the appearance of a seedy sweatshop run by greasy haired old men who wear fake gold jewellery. Kind of janky.

They will only take action if enough men say that its not okay for models to get grabbed in the back of a van. There is literally a conviction.

As a user of the UMD to reference the community at large, including the stores selling content, I always cease to support a producer once it becomes apparent that they are crossing a line.

In some cases, they have been banned from here, but their content is still for sale here through other producers. I will never purchase that content or support that producer as their behaviour and personal choices have turned me sour.

But why are they still here, or why is their older material still for sale here?

Another thing which has always bothered me is the depiction of women dying in quicksand, which some people get off on. Although necrophilia is not allowed, Erotophonophilia is, which is a good way to describe the quicksand thing. To me, anyone enjoying (and being turned on by) the sight of a woman sinking to her death (even if it's obviously not real) is sick, and must have a very real hatred for women. Why are we catering to that niche? Sex and violence can be combined by rapists or violent offenders, but I have always questioned why it is allowed here. (One producer of extremely high quality mud content provides most of this content)

So my only conclusion is that it has to do with money. If such producers are banned from the UMD, the advertising revenue dries up with them. Is money so important that illegal and disrespectful behaviour towards women is acceptable, so long as the perpetrator advertises?

In my own personal dealings with MessMaster, he has always been polite, super-nice, and a great guy, so this side is discouraging to see.

I will continue to not support the producers who have shown poor behaviour towards women, but is that enough? I also feel strongly that they should not be here. The UMD needs to become a safe place for everyone - especially women.

Penny, thank you for such a well thought out, and worded post. It will be sad to see you leave, but I totally understand why.

I came (back) to the UMD because of Penny - and - this whole thing does also have me asking myself if I wish to remain here.

I'd been oblivious to some stuff that had been happening - but really - this was never something that should have been public "debate" chatter on it should have been shut down pending, at least, time to weigh up and review what to do next.

I've been involved in assorted communities, on and off line, for an awful lot of years and when allegations against someone come up it is usually a "one word against the other" which, all too often, lends to people giving the accused the benefit of the doubt.

There will be people amongst this who will say "we can't take action without a conviction" as being their own "get out" in having to make difficult decisions.
Knowing, of course, that it is *very* difficult to get a conviction.

And now we have a case where there IS a conviction, it's beyond belief that seemingly no action is taken.

And this is very sad to see - because it seems that NOT EVEN an actual conviction is enough to get people to side with victims.

There's a lot of people, particularly those making mental gymnastics on other threads, need to take a good look at themselves.
I can understand not *wanting* to believe something - but what actually would it take you to believe?!

What do you mean "they don't"?

They [men] don't have the right to treat you badly.

MM has now acted, Leon is gone, his new store already closed and presumably the others to follow once current subscribers expire.

My take (was refining this for posting to the other thread but perhaps better here): Regarding how an individual should be treated, in the UK we have a register of sexual offenders, it's not public to prevent vigilante attacks but its operation is well known, below is a partial quote from a news article in the Northern Echo newspaper explaining the details of how it works:


Based on that, I'm of the opinion that any individual convicted of a sexual offence by the courts should be banned from UMD for the length of time they would be on the register for. And that the T&C should state that anyone convicted of a sexual offence should not join, or remain a member, until that offence is legally "spent". I'm assuming other developed countries have similar laws and the concept of an offence being spent (debt to society paid) - can anyone confirm that?

To allow for miscarriages of justice, if someone clears their name and gets a conviction overturned, they can be allowed back immediately.

(Was going to be part of a longer post but this is the core part)

I think there's a discord? Idk I'm not on it but I'll probably check it out. From what I've heard it's pretty poorly run but this might be an opportunity to start a new server with competent moderation

Ok, true story; there's an active producer here who cost me tens of thousands of dollars by operating a pirate forum that specifically targeted MPV. (The home page of the forum prominently displayed the MPV logo).

And while other producers had something to say to MM about it, I never did. That's because this is his house/business, not mine. (The person in question is, however, persona non grata at quicksandfans).

My point is that when someone commits an offense away from UMD, there are other, appropriate venues for investigation, judgement and punishment. It seems that these were exercised for the issue at hand.

There's no practical need to drag external issues here for further examination/action.

Penny, I respect you but this post is not fair. I've been talking with you and tons of people and getting advice, and also making moves in the backend to prepare not only for Leon's exit but to figure out who else needs to go, what to do with policy, and how to communicate this to our community in a way that can possibly bring us back together.

As I'm doing that, the whole time you've been out here accusing me of basically enabling a rapist, as if I've already made the decision to keep Leon around, which I told you was not true. I told you exactly what was happening and I've asked you to give me time to lead the community on this so things don't end even worse for us in the long-run, but you would not give any benefit of the doubt. You cut the conversation short and stopped talking to me. Immediate action on the front-end may look good, but real introspection about the entire process is where I'm at. It's been 3 days and the reverberations about this will heard on this site forever. Give me a minute.

This is all I'll say about me, because it's not about me and I'm not a victim. I just think it's important to respond to this and let the community know they have never been left alone. People need to feel safe here, because they are safe. I'm writing more responses and will post them soon.

Peace,
Messmaster

Someone post a link to that fuck around / find out TED talk

Classy... Do a point for point response or don't bother.

Just a friendly reminder guys:

We have a Terms of Service that looks to be being broken by one or two individuals with nearly every single post they are making.

Anyone who feels a bit uncomfortable, there are other ways of making your feelings known without weighing into any discussions. Feel it's important to mention to those who may feel strongly but not brave enough to disagree with certain things being said, from certain individuals who keep ranting on.

Personally, very quickly; I think Penny has every right to step away, and also if she wants to fairly make a statement on it - after all, she has decided to leave so case closed on that front really. There is FAR worse that has come to light in the past couple of days; priorities and morality people.

Vote Biden in the mid-terms

You don't deserve a point by point response because you comments have all the same tone. Men are the victim, women have it coming, obviously Leon the guilty sex offender is the true victim. Women should be here for your and everyone like you's pleasure. Truthfully that was my classier response. If you want the truth it'll be far worse. Btw you are so proud of your comment it is gone and you didn't bother to quote it here because you obviously are ashamed of it or you realize everyone is going to know you are truthfully scared of women.

A psychotic, political, stupid and meaningless screed; a laundry list of moronic MAGA buzzwords strung together like someone spilled a bowl of alphabet soup. It's not worthy of a response. Is stepping in dogshit worthy of a response? No, you scrape it off of your boot, and move on. This is the DM equivalent of a vile turd, delivered with malice, hate, and the intent to harm.

A message like this to another member of this site is f'ing ridiculous. I trust that MM and the admins are handling this.

There is an open forum of opinions, and there is personal attack. This is a personal attack (and from a very weak, [pejorative removed -MM] who, if he had any brains at all, would turn off the television and go read a book or three, starting with the Constitution and the Book of Matthew).

MAGAChris, What you know about class can be fit into a thimble with room for all of the contents of a thimble.

[flame off]

Chris, as I have read your posts in this thread and others you remind me of a friend of mine. They lived in Seattle. Seattle right now is a hot bed of far right and far left extremism. It is a gaslighting mess. My friend had to move out of Seattle to get away from that environment of constant gaslighting. It has made them a better person. Please consider doing the same.

This thread is not about you. Yet you have made it about you. This thread is about Penny, her feelings and saying goodbye. At least show an ounce of decency and respect that.