Ok, on the latest Katy Perry thread, a fellow poster made a remark about "socially inept incels". Now, I've been on the UMD for over 20 years, and I can remember quite a few. Is there still a large contingent of these types? Or have we just gotten better at hiding them?

I mean TBH 2020 makes me feel like a socially inept incel.

But shouldn't we be trying to help them more adept?

We've really never been successful at that. There were some attempts early on but a mostly public forum isn't the right vehicle for that, especially when it's focus isn't self-help.

Especially in the early years, we tried to reason with a lot of the "not quite predatory" but still deeply challenged posters why their tone/approach/attitude needed adjustments, but I never remember it working.

^^this. There was one particular member of this forum for a little while...I don't recall how long it took him to get banned, but a number of very calm, understanding individuals tried to get through to him multiple times. Each time the tables were turned on them and he erupted in "There's nothing wrong with me, the problem is ALL OF YOU" type responses. A lot of the people I've encountered who were incels, closeted or otherwise, had a lot of mental issues beyond just the incel part, and as the old saying goes, crazy people don't know that they're crazy. The ones that really made my skin crawl were the people that clearly had their mental wits about them but still chose to be that way. Those were the ones that tended to be the most dangerous, and even through forum posts, that tone came through loud and clear. Their embrace of the incel personality stemmed from rejection, hatred, and in every case, a massively over-inflated belief in themselves as the 'supreme male'. Even now, thinking about some of the posts I've seen from them over the years, I cringe.

Okay, thanks all; I was unaware of the history.

And I apologize for the typo: should have been adapt, not adept...

I feel any internet community has its share of socially inept incels, just a matter of if they ever out themselves, or get outed. They slip under the radar easily because they tend to just sort of stick to DMs and lurking. As time goes on though and their behaviour becomes more socially unacceptable I do think we get better at hiding them, or disregarding them as 'just an outlier', or think that we've done enough just by saying 'hey don't approach celebrities on twitter demanding they be gunged'.

Personally I'd be interested to know what some of the female users have to say on the issue because they are the ones affected. I get a message from some sad, no name, no bio, no friends, no profle, thirsty nobody every so often, so I can't imagine how much worse it is for them.

There was a whole thread about women being harassed by dudes on this forum. Even some guys get harassed.

I've worked with some pretty intense incels before, and I like to think I have a thick skin from the job, but damn these dudes had some hardcore, crazy ass ideas and if you heard the shit that came out of their mouths, you'd know why no women want to go out with them.

Also, getting a shoutout by HappyCamper. Nice

My point of view: I have sockpuppeted and gone onto incel forums to see what I can do. Some propagate misogynistic beliefs and enjoy the adulation, some are there to 'learn' as they are surrounded by people that feel the same and the tribal cult increases with disillusioned men and boys. This can lead to worse outcomes.
Some though understand the toxicity or are receptive to calm talk, albeit not many but they are worth talking to until they either stop listening, leave or turn nasty.

The problem is if the belief become so ingrained (a core belief) it is very difficult (and scary) to change as the person is losing something and has to fundamentally change themselves by replacing it with something different.

Some are just idiots; I mentioned I was polyamoros and had multiple partners to which they called me a "cuck" and a loser because I "couldn't keep a woman" even though I was happy relationships with 4..!? Surely being poly is an incel's perfect scenario?

Anyway, TL;DR: be nice to them, try to show them where they are going wrong/inaccurate thinking, if they turn nasty get them banned.
(Obviously this is easy from the male perspective as they don't come for me, I feel for the women who get attacked by men who think that women's bodies are their property and sex is their right, I don't blame you if you don't have the energy to try and help).

Back in the day there were guys who were just flops with chicks. They knew it and so did all the regular guys around them. Eventually compromises might be made and they would find someone they could build a relationship around - "Hey, she might look like Earnest Borgnine but she sure can cook!"

Now you have people who think the internet is real. Everyone but them lives in a universe populated with "perfect" women and they are somehow being deprived of this. They seem to feel ripped off. Where is their fair share of the fun? (That's not just limited to their love life) They often manifest themselves as "gimmees" to the producers or those that have anything. Legalized theft at places like Corn Chub leaves them very upset when you get their collection taken down but they come back over and over as they damn DMCA for violating their "rights".

I suspect strongly we are only creating more of these super-entitled people.

It can be a thing, but I tend to laugh it off. My favourite is someone messaging "Hi". I always say "Hi" back, because I'm polite! Then, literally, the second message this, let's face it, stranger sends is demanding to hook up on Skype. That happens fairly often. Why would anyone want to go onto Skype with a total stranger? I wonder if these pushy types are ever successful with this approach? I can't imagine they are. As always, it's important to point out that most people are cool and fun. I find this a generally great place and the odd strange message is a price worth paying to be here.

As others have mentioned, we've tried. We have the messy minds group that spawned out of the personal off-topic forum. And there are a decent amount of people there who talk about their real world problems.

Something to keep in mind is that every single one of us is broken in some way. Hold onto your compassion, it's the biggest thing that separates us from monsters.

At the moment I get very few messages but then my profile was fairly inactive for a long while. There was a time when I was single, looking for a partner and had a lot of pics up. At that time there were surprisingly few guys who were a pain with messages. The most common abusive message was accusing me of being a male pretending to be female. Most of those were just plain funny. I have had problems where I've actually met up with someone and they've gone strange after meeting or worse whilst actually chatting in the flesh. A lot of posters have used the word entitled and that perfectly sums it up it's where guys feel entitled to more. I think this is why they're incels in the first place. There are few things as effective at flipping my off switch as realising that the other person thinks I owe them something sexually or kink wise.

Interesting

...so, i've never heard that *exact* term before: "incel"

from reading all of the posts, i have gained a general idea of what this person is, but can somebody more fully define this term? Or more specifically - please explain that descriptor... what would that FULL term be written out as?

I almost would have used the term "troll" but that is a slightly different character (maybe the same character at a less evolved stage?)

Oxford English Dictionary defines 'incel' thus:

"A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women who are sexually active."

That's definitely part of it, but the word itself is two truncated words combined: Involuntary celibate. Basically, somebody who believes they're celibate because women can't see what they're missing out on, and must be stupid or blind to miss it. The reality, as you've seen from some of the stories above, is very different. Most incels either have true mental illnesses or, more commonly, they've got deep-seated misogynistic tendencies and a pathological need to have their imaginary status as the true alpha male validated. When that doesn't happen (usually because women can sense that there's something off-kilter about them), the conclusion they latch on to is that women are stupid. So they keep trying, sending even stronger vibes that women owe them something and that they hate women for not understanding that. Women pick up on that vibe and avoid them, and it feeds the delusion. At one point the manifesto of the guy who shot up Isla Vista in California (killing at least six and injuring a bunch more, from what I remember), was available online at one of the news agencies and I read as much of it as I could stand to try and understand these types of people better. If you really want to delve into that mind, it's still around, but fair warning, it's both a depressing and highly disturbing read.

Incels are a living, breathing joke

Wait, what!? God damn it, this is why I should actually talk to people on here!

New years resolution made.