Hi,

I was just watching the excellent MessyGurl94 video "Frosting Face". It's filmed in close-up, and that's one of the reasons that it's great. So many vids are shot in medium and wide shots and very few seem to contain any proper close-ups. Close ups add intimacy and detail, a real sense of interaction - why don't more people use them?

Can anyone prove me wrong and recommend any good ones?

RAWHD.SlapstickStuff.com

You can literally buy clips that are nothing BUT closeups!

[FULL DISCLOSURE: Not all those vids are "extreme" closeups, and not all the time. If a model has great cleavage, I'm probably gonna pull back enough to see that. If it's a two-girl scene, I'll often pull back so we can see both of them in the shot. And the danger of extreme closeups anyway is that the model can easily "drift" out of the shot and then you're losing that shot completely, so it's sometimes better to pull back and adjust as needed. I personally tend to "zoom in" for an extreme closeup if the coverage was particularly good, then pull back to the regular shot.]

Pulled some examples below, this is just from one shoot (SS142) but there's extreme closeups at spots in all four scenes.

These are great! (Although I would describe two of them as mid shots rather than close ups. I'm really talking about the face filling the frame.)

Yeah I'm only gonna do that for a few moments though. Fill the frame, model moves 3 inches to the left = Model out of frame.

Technically, Nick, what you are talking about is a big close up BCU. The problem is that this requires (in film making terms) a commitment to a particularly voyeuristic 'hand held' or certainly hand operated style. This is going to be a problem for most people to achieve because, like Rich, they work alone and so, for entirely practical reasons, they use a largely static two camera set up (wide and close up/2nd angle) and their aim is to capture all the action as broadly as possible. As in most cases as they have to direct more than one model and organise lighting and props and whatever else they simply don't have the manpower to have what is effectively a full time hand operated second camera and the focussed attention and skill this requires. I've seen a few videos where producers have entrusted this task to a 'friend' - with disastrous results and have issued the videos with a discount and an apology. It's a really risky thing to pull off. There are some producers who successfully employ this kind of hand held close up technique as their 'house style', but it's because their work is appropriately 'intimate' or in a voyeuristic style (e.g. Leonmoomin on Mostwam shoots). You can bet they're operating this camera themselves, too, to ensure it's done exactly the way they want it.

Yup... and in fairness I've had 3 cameras for a long time now. The 3rd (Wide) angle doesn't get used much but it's cool as a "fly on the wall" shot.

The closeup is usually from the cleavage up, maybe a bit more or less, but again it can't be SO close or the model will wander out of the shot (nearly happened in my very first video shoot, so I learned my lesson early)...

I appreciate it's easy to lose the model from the frame with the fixed camera if your shooting with a two/three camera set up. But lots of people are producing videos on their own with a single fixed camera, like in the MessyGurl example. There's no reason that this set up can't feature big close ups, as she demonstrates. The majority of pie in the face type videos still focus mainly on the face, so they really don't have to be shot in wide or medium or whatever. The full body stuff is what ought to be secondary.
And if you're shooting hand held, you can go in for a big close up sometimes. It's honestly not that technically difficult to pull off, if you've a will to do it. I'm just saying it's a really valuable shot that lends itself well to our 'area of interest' and it would be nice to see more of it.

I think this thread basically sums up the state of the WAM marketplace in 2016.

OP: "Why can't more people do scenes with closeups?"
Responder: "Here's some of mine that are nothing but closeups!"
OP: "Yeah, but they're only KINDA close up. I want them MORE close up."

Also, FTR, based on past experience and comments:
--Shooting a clip with "all handheld camera" is a turn-off for a lot of folks.
--An entire scene of self-WAM (which is what this is, and what enables the producer to stay behind the camera) is ALSO a turn-off for some folks.
--My biggest sales across the board are always the medium angle, rather than the close-up, and so I would argue that is NOT secondary.

I totally get that you want a scene produced entirely to your specs. And in 2016, you probably WILL get it, sooner or later. It's just a little frustrating to be told, "Yeah, your scenes are 80% of what I want, but not 100%, so sorry."

Lol. Burger King did this to us.

Hey (I say this with love) if there is a very specific thing your looking for,....it's just you. Your not the majority, and close is probably as close as you gonna get, unless you go buy a camera and do it yourself, or buy a custom. It's that way with me too, so I get it. Hence, producer.

Hey rich! You really don't need to do it alone, however. I just ask guys I know if they want to come and throw pies at half naked girls, and I always have help.

Well, I'm sure there ARE guys on this board and in this community who are not weird or creepy or socially awkward, and could easily treat the shoot as a job, rather than an excuse to ogle the half-naked girl as she's getting pied.

BUT... That's a big "unknown" factor, and it just throws an extra variable into the equation that not worth it to me. I agree that the right help could absolutely improve the shoot... But the "wrong" help could ruin it. I dunno. It might just be me being overly cautious.
(Only time I brought in an "outsider" was SS10... The guy was fine and not overly weird, and the model was mostly unfazed, but the vibe still felt "wrong." Elle actually talked about helping me for a spell, which would probably be better from the model's perspective since she's a female, but her schedule is nuts and she's more unreliable than actual models!)

Well, I have never had a fellow wammer help me, just regular joes I know. To the vanilla, it's jus fun. And i imagine, therpudic.

+10 points to Meathook! Brilliant!

Sorry if I came off as demanding. I wasn't trying to be contrary, and the examples Rich showed really were great. But I don't agree that tight close-ups are my 'thing' like white socks or something, it just a shot composition that I thought people don't use much and that other people might like to see more of. I find it a bit depressing when you bring a suggestion like that to the forum and get told it's just too difficult.

By the way, I wasn't saying that entire scenes should be shot hand-held. I was saying in a two or three camera set up, one option is to have a fixed wide shot (and maybe another angle) and a hand-held camera that captures details.

I think it's a positive thing to make technical suggestions here on the forum, not just requests for specific mess types or themes or whatever. The intention is to give producers fresh ideas, not criticize them for not doing what I want.

No, and I get that. Sorry if I was being argumentative.
Folks on here DO seem to get super-specific now, sometimes to an insane degree. One poster always wants to make sure that EVERY pie is a real one... If there's even one thrown pie with shaving cream in it, it's a no-sale. Even if there's 12 real pies before that.
I guess I could simply "edit" the video to his specs... AKA end it early.

I feel like a scene with only extreme closeups would probably appeal to a certain crowd, especially since that niche isn't really served. Would it drive away people who prefer to see some of the model's body? Who knows. I've put extreme closeups into scenes before (although not for the entire video) and haven't really heard any feedback either way, so I didn't feel the need to pursue it more.

I will tell you that there have been MANY complaints over the years of handheld camerawork. I've seen my share of otherwise decent videos ruined by a shaky camera that misses the action, or can't "lock in" on the model's face until after the money shot has passed. So that's always scared me from doing it. (That, and the whole "I can't shoot handheld and pie the model at the same time" problem.) The tripod has been my friend, along with the zoom that doesn't reduce quality.

But as with everything here... If someone shoots an all-handheld video of extreme closeups, and it sells 100 copies in 3 days, you can bet that person WILL make more. (And other producers too.)
If it sells 3 copies in 2 weeks... Probably not.

You know, what am I even talking about. I do extreme close ups in every video! I love a good close up shot, and that cinematic feel! Here are a few from my latest video!

Ok...the trick to doing a good closeup while maintaining little risk of the model moving out of frame, is as follows:

1] practice with the model first using either a balled-up paper towel or empty paper plat...I do this to get the model used to being hit it the face and so avoid the 'flinch factor' (or most of it) which can drive/trigger the model moving out of frame...

2] then, when you're ready and have her in the exact spot (relative to the camera) that you want, have her stand flat-footed (if she's in heels, have her take them off for the hit)...Then, chalk out-line her feet, and instruct her to stay within the chalk outline...this may seem odd, but it actually helps the model (it visual/mentally reminds her to) stay put/"on her mark" (as we say in show biz)

Keep in mind that our sense of balance is wired to our visual sense, if a model is being pied or multi-pied (covering her eyes) there is a good chance she may momentarily lose her balance/footing and have to readjust, possibly moving out of frame...having her stand flat-footed, feet about shoulder length apart...will help greatly.

This is what I did with Alissa (see pics) and she took a perfect pie and did not flinch or move "off her mark". Granted, this is not a "super" CU shot, but it is does qualify as an "extreme" form of close-up (a CU style I started doing with my first video: Tabitha's First Modelling Shoot [see my website links for more pics/examples]).