Hey folks,

This is something I've been curious to unpack for a while. I'm a straight, married guy who's been into WAM for about 25 years. Basically, I crossdress -- wigs, makeup, breastplate, heels, the full look -- and then self-gunge.

It started in my teens, watching Noel's House Party and messing around in the bathroom with shaving foam and shower gel. Over time it grew: buying women's clothes on eBay, bulk custard runs at the supermarket (cue raised eyebrows), and now, at 40, ending up as a "sexy secretary" covered in 100 gallons of coloured natrosol.

What's always intrigued me is why I'm into this. I get turned on by seeing my feminine self messy -- the breasts, the humiliation, the attention, the transformation. There's also a public side to it -- I sometimes fantasize about being seen or gunged in front of others, though I've never acted on it.

I'm not attracted to men - in fact i don't think ive ever got messy in mens clothes - though when dressed as a woman, I've fantasized about being desired as one. I would LOVE to be gunged as a woman, by other wammers, but that, sadly, will likely never happen.

That blurs the line for me. Am I gay? I don't think so -- women still make me weak at the knees.

Looking back, I was a shy, skinny kid who never fit the "macho" mold. Maybe the fetish grew from wanting attention, or trying to become the kind of woman who turned me on. Maybe it's a mix of both.

I've heard the term autogynephilia -- maybe that fits, maybe it doesn't.

What I really want to know is: how common is this in the WAM world? I've met other straight crossdressers who feel the same, even if it confuses people who see "straight crossdresser" as a contradiction.

Anyway, thanks for reading my ramble. Curious to hear if anyone else relates.

Goddess said when She has our next ultra messy session, we will also include destroying a dress i will have to wear. ugh.

If you are interested in the psychological side of things, you might enjoy Jesse Bering's book Perv. It is 10 years old now, but still an interesting read. It is hard to get exact numbers on such things, but in it he states that the majority of cross dressers are actually straight.

-JD

I'm straight, and not what I would describe as a cross dresser, and would never cross dress in public. However, I have worn women's clothing solely for the purpose of getting messy (and sometimes completely destroying the clothes).

Additionally, although I would never desire to be transgender or undergo any kind of sex change, I am absolutely fascinated by how it would feel to be a woman, particularly from a sexual perspective (and naturally getting messy, which for me IS sex).

I think as you've touched on, perhaps if we cannot easily have the partner we desire, we become them. To a degree it allows us to simultaneously be the person getting our ideal sexual partner all messy, and to be the one receiving the mess - we're seeing it and feeling it at the same time, which is actually impossible with a real life sexual partner.... you can't gunge a girl and also feel what she's feeling - unless you become the girl.

It's definitely an odd and slightly paradoxical concept, but that's my take on it.

I always enjoy cake sitting, and naturally would love my sexual partners to share in it with me, but there always has to be a cake for both of us, because otherwise I can't decide whether to watch her squash the cake, or whether I'd prefer to sit on it myself!! ...If only there was a way I could just become her so I could watch her gorgeous butt crush that cake AND feel it too!!??

- exactly this

There has always seemed to be a surprisingly large correlation between TV/CD and WAM/Splosh. When Miss Helen ran the Wamdrogeny site about 20 years ago, it had thousands of us on there.

I started dressing (mainly just tights at first) in my late teens as I loved girls in tights. I then tried getting them wet and loved the feeling as they clung to me, moving on to mud then smooth-whipped clay over time, then getting more and more clothes until I eventually confided in some cool close friends who I knew would be ok with it... and eventually ended up dressing each year at a little (very hippy) festival we went to.

I think it is true that the vast majority of TV/CDs are straight men. Most dress entirely in secret - often from their wives and families for fear of losing them. Hence the only people represented in the media tend to be those who want to undergo full transition or they are examples of loud, camp, gay drag queens, which gives completely the wrong impression about us to other folk 'out there'! For the media, there seems to be nothing in between (where we are), so the concept of straight guys doing this is a complete surprise to anyone else ... which makes it even more difficult to find a female partner, as they've been conditioned by the media to assume we're either going to transition or that we're gay and, therefore, not a serious 'prospect' worthy of consideration.

I think, for many of us, it starts as liking to see the kind of person we'd love to date. I used to love looking at 'Lizzie' in the mirror and imagining it was a sexy girl who was actually dating me and allowing me to splosh her, whilst actually feeling 'her' sploshing 'me' at the same time. Very much what you've said. I've always dreamed of being able to splosh an RG just like I do to 'Lizzie' but I'd love to have the RG splosh 'Lizzie' using exactly the same techniques and substances, so it would be reciprocal and consensual ... and a lot of sexy fun! LOL.

Also, the sploshing works so well in girls' clothes. All that clingy lycra keeps all the gloop 'where you want it' for extra fun! As I've always said, if you've not worn 3 pairs of tights and had a jug full of smooth-whipped sloppy clay poured into the layers and felt it sliding around in the panty section as it heads south then you haven't lived!

Sadly, I seem to have reached the age where any kind of kinky activity doesn't seem to be having much effect on me any more. It's as if someone's flicked a switch in my head. I can still see the same people and images I've always seen and can appreciate how sexy they are ... but there doesn't seem to be any physiological reaction any more and I no longer seem to have the desire to dress and splosh like I used to for decades ... and I do miss that desire. Without it, there isn't much point in just 'going through the motions'.

I'm not a crossdresser in anyway but I have put on women's clothing from time to time.
It first started back in the late '80s when I had a girlfriend that was into my PVC Rubber Leather fetish.
My favorite colors are purple and hot pink....
There was a hot pink French maid dress in a catalog that I really wanted her to wear and she refused because she would only wear red, black and white Rubber and PVC.
She suggested that if I loved the hot pink dress so much, that I could wear it for her.
I readily agreed and a month later after her mother's help using her credit card to get the dress.....
I was suddenly wearing women's clothing....
It turned me on to no end to put that dress on and my girlfriend was really into it as well, seeing me wearing it.
2 years later.... I came out of the pie closet with my girlfriend and around the same time she was curious about pegging....
She absolutely loved pegging me if I was wearing a dress but she never asked or wanted me to go further than that.
Long story short...
One day when she was at work and we had a pie episode planned for the evening....
I was really bored and kind of horny so I put on one of her red PVC dresses and was masturbating in the bedroom of our one bedroom apartment and I hit myself in the face with one of the banana cream pies that was thawing out in the kitchen on the counter.
Unbeknownst to me my girlfriend had told her mother that she could drop off some stuff that she had for her at our apartment.
Her mother walked in on me right after I had hit myself in the face with the banana cream pie.
The way the apartment was laid out I had to run to the bathroom which was in the bedroom and I had to cross the doorway.....
There was no way for me to shut the door to the bedroom and her mother was looking for me.
She saw a flash of red PVC and white as I dashed into the bathroom and closed the door.
Long story short again......
I had to come clean about everything with her mother.
My girlfriend was actually ecstatic about it and eventually when I was taking a road trip with her mother to Atlanta to shop for a expensive PVC raincoat for her to wear, we had a heart to heart honest talk and it came around to the hot pink rubber maid outfit and the fact that she knew that it was for me because she had to give the size measurements over the phone to the people we got it from.
She point blank asked me at one point in our conversation on the road trip if I would go all the way with her.
She wanted to completely transform Me.
Wig, makeup, falsies, fake nails, nail polish, panties, stockings, high-heeled shoes.
I agreed and she literally spent her own money on the outfit that she wanted me to wear.
All I can say is that psychologically letting her transform Me was a complete turn on and I loved the fact that I was the center of attention and I think the best part of being dressed and transformed was having my makeup done.
I remember standing in front of a full length mirror after she was done with me and looking at myself and being incredibly turned on.
I also had to act like a girl for the whole day that I was with her and wait on her hand and foot and do anything that she said. It was completely embarrassing and humiliating and at the same time I loved every second of it.
And my great reward at the end of the day was getting hit in the face with cream pies by her and her daughter.

I was introduced to pie fun in high school when my high school girlfriend said she liked getting pies in her face. I enjoyed being on the giving end. Then in my 30's I had a girlfriend who had a serious pie fetish. She enjoyed having me smother her with huge banana cream diner pies and having sex with her face buried under several pies Probable had pied 6different girls iver the years with about 100 pies. I was sexually turned on by that. It was late 2019 when I met up with a good friend and her partner ( Robin and Holly) who invited me to a Kinky Couples Halloween Party in RI. They had a blonde wig and said they wanted to dress me as Lady Gaga. I agreed and they had picked out a Sequin dress and Holly gave me a full make up job. She also gave me a 44DD bra and filled with sponges. I had to admit I felt very sexxy. Robin knew how much I enjoyed pieing girls and the 2 of them basically decided they were going were going to feminize me, gave me the name Babs, and turn the pie tables on me. This all occurred at the beginning of Covid and for 6 months, Babs became their submissive sissy. I would spend weekends at their condo, wear dresses during the day and sleep in bras and panties and a Victoria secret nightie. And discover Mr Bubble Foam soap which made wonderful foam pies. The girls enjoyed transforming me into Babs and I enjoyed exploring my feminine side. For my birthday they invited me over and invited several of their girlfirnds to pie Babs, 6 girls and about 40 foam pies.It was wonderful and Babs continues to explore and enjoy and loves to be on the receiving end of huge foam pies. She has made several female WAM friends who enjoy pieing Babs in person and/or on camera. I'm lucky to have a wonderful Pie Domme Vanna who has been Pieing Babs the last 3 years. Pics attached are from Babs when she was dressed as Lady Gaga . She was all glammed up and Robin and Holly plastered her with 4 pink foam pies. And Vanna pieing Babs in public. I love how the foam pies feel on my boobs

I figured out fairly early on how I came to be a mud fetishist but it is not as clear just how I also came to be a crossdresser in and out of the mud as well. Once thing is sure however, it has something to do with a neighborhood girl daring me to lift her dress and then my father beating me for doing so and dresses somehow becoming associated with forbidden sexuality.

Initially, dresses were associated with the women wearing them but this is where things get more uncertain, somehow I came to be attracted to the dresses themselves and desired to wear them myself. I first wore women's clothing while doing mud at a quarry and eventually came to always wear dresses, skirts, blouses, and bloomers when doing mud. Then one day I started wearing a dress around the house and since then have always been in a dress when at home.

Eventually, I came to be not all that interested in seeing women in dresses. Instead, I am now totally focused on seeing men in dresses. I do not need them to be all that feminine or sissified, they just need to be in women's clothing, preferably in a dress. And yes, I would like to lift their dress and even more like to have them lift mine!

For me getting messy was first. Thanks nick and disney channel pie fights. But crossdressing came much slower. It is all kinda wrapped around makeup. I saw a clown in the circus and looooved the face paint. Then in HS i would be so jealous of the theater kid who had their faces painted. But also a guy who wore drag makeup to school back in like 2010. What a diva. In college I got the urge to dress up finally after being exposed to drag queens. My first time was with a dominatrix who tied me up. Dressed me up and did my makeup before pieing me a bunch of times. I have been crossdressing ever since. Actually have a new pair of heels coming today. Weirdly I can crossdress without any sexual element. I have to come to love wearing dresses. Hopefully one day I will go out in drag!

I feel as if I am the rare Bi crossdresser. I love being dressed up and sucking cock. I also find other crossdressers extremely attractive

So many people seem to have had these experiences with other wammers, ive always been solo!

Either im too shy, or just unlucky! I always assumed most if the wam community are solo artists, but maybe I was wrong!

Lucky people

When I read your forum article I have to admit to rechecking the author's handle as it read as something I might have written. Infact it was almost frightening reading your views/background/experiences on this topic; the parallels with my own are uncanny. The only thing, sadly enough, is that my earliest experiences go back many many years before NHP; being a young lad growing up in a somewhat conservative rural community. But least here we know we're not completely alone and that's what matters.

Hi i,ve been crossdressing and messing for decades i,m also not gay and love women, and their clothes so much more exciting than male clothing.
I suppose i dress like i would love a women to dress and also see what it feels like for a woman to get pied or gunged ,like a substitute or stooge even.
I know my overall fetish is a bit niche but it,s a look from childhood where the primary school teachers wore their own nylon overalls in class ,that made me feel very turned on allthough i didn,t know what was happening to me at the time.
dressing and staying clean is a great feeling but when i add getting messy into the equation it,s sensational and the erection i get in my messy female clothes is off the scale.

My experience tends to go against the grain from what's been written so far. For me, dressing femme or feminine wasn't required for WAM. One is more about identity and feeling comfortable with myself so starting estrogen made total sense for me while WAM is just a fetish.

I will say that the idea of of being completely overdressed (evening gown, big hair, costume jewelry, etc) and giving and/or receiving pies seems like a lot of fun for me. It isn't required though

For me, I absolutely abhor the "tough/ macho guy" mentality that so many guys around me have. So if I can be taken down a peg by the ladies, sign me up. That then went hand in hand with silly costumes. Then I naturally tried crossdressing. And that sparked something different. The letting go of the "this is what a man in society should be" mindset is so freeing, you get to experience so many things the other gender typically only gets to and let's be honest, they're on to something. Last Halloween i said "I'm going to embrace this, as a 'straight laced' guy, I'm going to go 100%", without having so much as went out in public before. I got my nails done at a salon, full mani pedi (amazing), my makeup professionally done and went to the club, from the skin out, as a Playboy Bunny. Not many guys in their life get to experience a silky bodysuit, tights, heels, the works, so it was lots of new experiences to check off. It. Was. Amazing I loved every second of it. That has lead me to trying more and more feminine things in everyday life and they're usually really nice. And I like the fact that, because I have been so open about it, it isn't something anyone can 'use against me. " "Hell yeah I was a Playboy Bunny last year, maybe Jessica Rabbit next?" And alas, still didn't turn gay. _()_/

I dream of doing this. I want to be pied in a gown

The original post here is pretty much me!! No desire to be a girl full time, and I'm straight, although always jealous of girls fashion and the choice they have. Interestingly, I didn't enjoy getting messy as a male, in male clothes, but love getting messy in female clothes and I do feel sexy when dressed as a girl.
I'm lucky that my wife is supportive and we've had some great messy sessions over the years, initially mostly her getting the mess, but now it's more me, I would say No idea why, but no plans to stop and I love choosing outfits, the more "girly" the better. Always with high heels too.
I've always wondered how many CD's are into getting messy, it's a shame there's no longer a site or community dedicated to this.
Great post!

Yes!! I forgot to mention in my post above about this. Once I'd confided in some really close friends about the dressing and was discussing it a bit with them, they were asking about some of the reasoning. I asked whether, when they went for a night out, they did their hair and nails, put on a sparkly dress, did their make-up etc. and did that make them feel more sexy and confident? They all said that it did. I pointed out that it was exactly the same for me and then they understood.


Lucky indeed! About 30 years ago, I met someone tall, slim and sexy who told me (not long after we'd started seeing each other) that she had got incredibly horny when dressing up an ex in her lingerie and how she had enjoyed having to wade around in mud once when she was a student in training on a site. I thought (Leslie Phillips voice) "well hello!" and told her about sploshing and CD combinations, assuming she'd be fine. She ran a mile! Couldn't see her for dust. Just goes to show ... though I think acceptance of such things has significantly improved more recently. (Sadly rather too late for me, though!)

I thought I might add something after my previous post.
I have always loved the PVC Raincoats from the 70s, 80s.
I used to go around to thrift stores in the late 80s/early 90s, and buy up any that I could find.
My girlfriend from back then, didn't understand my infatuation with those cheesy and preppy PVC Raincoats, but her mother thought that it was "cute" that I collected them.
She said that I was welcome to wear them for her at her house anytime I wanted to.
In the early 90s certain companies were making 100% Vinyl Raincoats and jackets, Kenn Sporn being one of them. They of course were being produced and made with women in mind, but that didn't stop me from buying them. The only problem was I was very self-conscious and nervous going into a department store into the women's section and trying them on and I can barely control my anxiety and embarrassment going up to the counter to pay for the Raincoat.
I caught many sales women smiling out of the corner of my eye which embarrassed me even further.
Sometimes I would have to make several trips to the same store because they always had more than one color and I just had to have them all.
I remember one sales lady telling me that she remembered me buying a Black PVC Raincoat and was curious about if I was buying the same exact one in Pink, was the Pink one for my girlfriend?
I lied and said yes.
One day my girlfriend came home and told me the store next to where she worked had these amazing PVC trench coats on sale, so I went to go check them out and I bought a Black one and a White one on the spot.
I went back a couple weeks later when I had more money and bought a Red one, and the young girls that were working in the store remembered me and started asking questions about why I was buying all the raincoats and did I plan on getting one of every color?
Yes, I did indeed plan on getting one in every color, but I didn't tell them that, I was too ashamed.
There was still one trench coat left that I didn't have and it was a Plum/Purple color. I tried to get the guts up to go back in and purchase that Purple trench coat, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I asked my girlfriend to get it for me and she just laughed at me and told me that if I really wanted it I had to get it myself.
She liked being mean to me in that way because she liked seeing me uncomfortable in certain situations because it turned her on.
I was out one afternoon doing some shopping with her mother and we stopped by her work and the subject of the Purple trench coat got brought up.... Mostly because my girlfriend wanted to embarrass me about it in front of her female co-workers.
As we were leaving the store her mother felt sorry for me and offered to go in and buy the Purple Vinyl trench coat for me but that I would owe her one for doing it for me.
So she went in and got it while I waited in her car, and when she got in the car and gave it to me she seemed very happy and excited about it.
When we got back to her house she had me put it on and wear it for her, and she took pictures of me wearing it. It was definitely a bonding moment between us and she told me that she would buy me anything that I was too embarrassed to buy for myself, but that one day she was going to want a favor and I would have to do whatever it was that she wanted.
I think she had it in her mind back then to transform me....
Then came the Hot Pink Rubber French Maid costume.....
Then I came out of the "Pie in the Face" closet.....

Thanks so much for all of the replies! I knew my experiences and mindset weren't unique by any stretch, but its remarkable how many people share the exact same feelings in their own lives.

This is one the best things about this community - the fact that no matter how much of an outcast we feel like sometimes, or how weird we may seem to others looking in, we can all seek comfort and reassurance surrounded by people with mutual feelings and desires.

Like kurt cobain once said 'they laugh at me because im different, I laugh at them because they're all the same'

Always healthy to read a post like this from time to time, just for the clarity aspect.

I have often pondered the connections with WAM and cross dressing and agree to much of what has already been said, in that we are compensating by becoming the woman and experiencing her humiliation. Sounds a bit dark and probably down right weird to those who don't consider cross dressing but then in this WAM community, weird is what many of the non WAM consider us, each to their own!!!

I must confess that I have pretty much saturated my lust to mess myself up and have fulfilled all my various messy scenarios including mud at outside venues. There does comes a point where the clean up, preparation, timings and various other factors outweigh the overall enjoyment experience. I would also add that once fully dressed en femme, to get messy completely destroys your femininity in a stroke.

I still enjoy seeing women getting messy, but have now seen my cross dressing take centre stage as my primary fetish. The good vibes I feel from planning and then getting ready really is exciting and then to spend hours parading around in full dress is a feeling of complete and utter contentment and joy.

I feel blessed to have WAM and cross dressing in my life and really do pity people who have no fetish or are so conservative they never allow themselves to indulge in pleasure. Life is to be lived and experienced.

If I had a younger face with the right facial features and been born in a later decade no doubt I would have gone full transition but cross dressing is a good happy medium that fulfills my needs and because, life as it is, is not that bad!!

What an interesting discussion. I too am a straight cross dresser who is also into WAM. At first glance the two activities seem to have no logical reason for being linked, but evidence - as in this correspondence - shows otherwise.

For me dressing came first, and is still my first love. Sploshing came later. I can't actually remember when the two activities collided. I think it must have been late one evening when I had dressed, driven out to the countryside, and gone for a walk in the woods. (At that time I lacked the confidence to be seen by anyone else, but still longed for the thrill of being outside, with the associated risks.) I remember walking down a path that was a bit slippery after earlier rain. The inevitable happened, I slipped and ended up sitting on my bottom in a puddle. The feeling of water soaking through my skirt and tights was a real turn on.

I didn't take it any further that evening, just hurried home to dry off. But I was hooked. I bought a cheap outfit from a charity shop that I knew I could afford to throw away after one use. I recall it was an old, but still quite smart, grey skirt suit. When I next had an opportunity I went to a field where the farmer had been digging some new ditches. Needless to say some while later I staggered back to the car, my new suit soaked and caked with mud. From then on the combination of cross dressing and messing was irresistible.

Of course this still doesn't address why the two activities go so well together. I did one trash an old male suit, but it just wasn't the same. I think the reason, at least for me, lies somewhere in the 'double jeopardy'. I am already breaking social rules by dressing as a woman. To then deliberately ruin my clothes is another socially unacceptable behavior. Double risk, quadruple pleasure!

There is also the fact that getting dressed as a woman is time consuming and requires careful preparation. To then deliberately wreck all that hard work is another turn on.

I'm not sure any of the above provides a logical rationale, but thank you for the opportunity to give this subject a bit of thought.

So many of the responses here resonated with me that I thought I would add my account with some of my slight differences. I very briefly used to post the videos of my crossdressed sploshing to CrossDressMess (and am currently considering whether to relaunch it depending on how the installation of a new Gunge Tank room in my new place and whether I can find other crossdressing models wanting to take part).

For me my dressing and my messing started out separately and then merged. I started out crossdressing pre-teens and I started wanting to make others messy around my teens but didn't realise it was erotic at the time.

Later when I wanted to get messy myself it was always whilst dressed as a woman. I was trying to replicate looks I would want to see get messy. I will say that my first attempt at a crossdressmess website I did too much of trying to chase a general audience than do what I wanted to do so if I do try again with a site it'll be me and my now rather large femme wardrobe with gunge I the gunge tank rather than say bulk buying food. Don't get me wrong I do love that sort of scene but regularly for a website gets much more expensive. I'm not expecting to make a profit with any of it, breaking even would be awesome but if it allows me to hire another model to be featured with in a video by sticking to gunge rather than food that is a bonus. (Plus cleanup is easier).

I would also say that I also have autogynephilia (though given what a dirty word it is in the rest of the trans community I would normally avoid saying it, just because this part sounded accurate for me, does not mean I endorse the rest of the theory, a broken clock is right twice a day) or at the very least it has been the best description for my experience. To be clear I am attracted to women. I am not attracted to men. I do however have fantasies of wishing to experience what it would be like as a woman having sex with a man. I just don't really care what the man looks like in actual fact, because of a humiliation kink, I would probably be turned on more by a man considered more unattractive (old, fat etc) by others. And when I have these fantasies it is important that I am dressed and treated like a woman. Now in reality I now call myself either heteroflexible or bicurious because I have never acted on any of these fantasies I might do once I get my new place if I can find a suitable play partner able to respect certain boundaries I set but as I am not attracted to males I feel fraudulent if I was to say I was bisexual. I accept that I'm not completely straight but not quite fully bi either.

I have had female play partners in the past for sploshing and indeed my last relationship was 11 years long in which she was happy to get messy but whilst accepted my dressing it was on a sort of "as long as I don't see it," basis. Though I should say that I have always been upfront and honest about my sploshing and crossdressing kinks with prospective partners before we've even had sex for the first time. Sure it has backfired on me a number of times but I've attempted to live with honesty first. Now I also feel we shouldn't be ashamed of our kinks and that being more open may help to find prospective partners. I just hope to one day find a female partner that is as shameless about their kinks to have completely slutty adventures together and occasionally with others eg. Hotwifing etc.

From what I have gathered over the years the reason the site has a combined transgender category is that back when it was introduced "Transgender," was the umbrella terms for the entire trans community which then included crossdressers the reason for this was in part because many crossdressers later in life decided they were trans or non-binary and it made sense to have a pipeline of support for those that need it.

More recently the trans community have decided crossdressers don't belong/should be excommunicated from the trans umbrella. This site hasn't kept up which shouldn't be a surprise as the category was created here more to keep crossdressers and transgender people out of the content feeds of those that didn't want it. I cannot exaggerate the amount of abuse I received when I first posted Crossdressmess content on UMD over a decade ago despite my clearly marking it as crossdresser content it didn't stop the bigots clicking on it and complaining. By the end of it I was exclusively marketing myself on the Splosh forum as it was a whole lot more welcoming.

And honestly given how the UMD forum works splitting it into Transgender and Crossdresser categories won't help either categories be more visible (it'll be further divide and conquer or dilution into nothing) as you can't enable more than one of those categories at a time at the moment.

Honestly I think the deeper question should be why you can't have both female and transgender categories in the same feed. We can get Co-Ed content included into the female feed but those of us willing to allow content from transgender posters can't get it. We have to completely re-toggle the feed whenever we remember to check it because there is very rarely any transgender posts. This very topic shows there is enough of a sub-community interest in more transgender/crossdresser topics but they die a death because ordinarily they have the trans tag on them so go to the hidden feed.

This is user experience problem, those that want it enabled to see cannot have it toggled on like include Co-Ed or include Explicit options to have an include Trans option. I'm not even trying to pull the UMD into the trans debate here because what I'm arguing for is those that believe trans women are women and want to see that content in the same stream can't enable it. A simple toggle that is off by default still allows those that disagree to continue on as they always have with the trans content disabled. BUT having it so those that do want it can't have it when there are already clearly work arounds for include Co-Ed (or disable Strict), include Explicit and include Synthetic to me starts to feel more like a position taken the admin team. You can include artificially generated women in your feed, you can include men accompanied by a woman in your feed BUT you can't include a trans woman in your female feed instead you have to switch to a virtually dead feed.

It just feels strange that the only type of woman we can't choose to allow in our female feed is a trans woman. When you already have the means to allow users to make that decision for themselves but don't then it feels like the admin team trying to make a point.

for me i think its just two different kinks or traits that come together, i crossdress 90% of the time in normal life so the cross dressing doesnt require splosh etc but the splosh does require me to be as female

When a man has a real-life female wam partner (speaking from a straight viewpoint) it can be exciting, yet there are things you may long to see, or you may long to experience what she is feeling. So crossdressing and wamming provides both opportunities. 1. You can control exactly what is worn, how 'she' is messed, and the reactions afterwards. Then, 2: You can feel what you imagine her to be feeling, from the shock of the mess hitting you to the temperature, the outrage, the messed clothing, and how it looks and feels. So if you be the male administering the mess, and also the female receiving it, you get double the sensual and emotional effect. Just being the female and self-messing gives you the imaginary thrill of knowing how she might feel. For those who like mirrors, they can also see their preferred wam victim up close and personal, as they feel what she feels. It's a blurred line through identity, as the male and female side of the person cross back and forth. Just another aspect of why WAM is such a large playground, both mentally, emotionally and physically. (not to mention visually too)

For me, as someone who recently came out as Bi-Trans, I found myself, at the time, crossdressing more proactively when I was younger. As time went on, and as I worked it through in my head, and came out to my family and close friends, I realized that it was not crossdressing that arpused me, but that I liked dressing that way, and feeling sexy.

For wam, it was seeing women messy in sexy outfits, and imagining myself getting messy like that, which augmented the dressing/crossdressing. Then the addition of seeing/imagining effeminate men crossdressed and messy came up, and it further augmented my WAM fetish.

Now I see/imagine myself getting messy as me, a woman, and that just simply works

I've crossdressed in a cheap Amazon maid outfit, long white socks, frilly knickers etc and pied myself to heighten the humiliation but I don't think there's more to it than that. I'd love to go on a stag party where I was made to dress up like that and pied and gunged by the other guys on the stag while strangers laughed at me. I am a gay guy though.

I too enjoy crossdressing and getting messy. And I am straight as well. For me the wamming came first in my early teens watching shows like a lot of people then experimenting with it myself, then in my late teens the cross dressing side of it came. Originally it was just tights I loved the feel and how they looked on women and bit by bit i felt like I wanted to try a little bit more. I mean I am still a rookie to this as I can't do messy sessions and cd due to living conditions but hopefully in the future I can do more and find my feet. I love to just get gunged and can do it as just myself but the cding side of it adds something. Maybe like others have touched on here it's like trying to get a feeling of what it is like to see a female they admire or like get messy and it's the closest they will get to that feeling. Again for me the cding is not a lifestyle it just feels fun. Get dressed get messed done etc etc

This is a wonderful thread. I am a straight male and I am in the lucky position of having a female friend who loves getting messy. Cross dressing has never been on my list of things to try but reading this thread I wonder whether that is because for many years I have regularly been able to experience the reactions of my friend while she gets messy. Oddly enough we were taking last month about her choice of clothing to get messy in. She usually wears casual clothes but has worn smart office wear and a few old dresses that she no longer has a use for from time to time. I generally wear casual clothes and she is happy with that. We do have a mutual transgender friend but although she doesn't know about our messy sessions I have no reason to believe that she is into WAM so I can't really compare the reactions of my friend getting messy with those of a transgender woman or crossdresser.