Long time lurker poking my head out for this one because it's a topic I've thought about for a long time who is almost the same age and into the same things. WAM isn't my only fetish but in all of them I crossdress to participate in them. Rarely in my fantasies I am a woman but mostly I'm forced to dress that way because I'm a "weak and submissive" man getting dominated by a powerful woman. Either way there's no gender dysphoria and I'm always fantasizing about being with women in them.

My conclusions on why are mostly the same as yours. I'm also a pretty small, nerdy guy who saw gender roles as bullshit in my teens and ended up friends with gay people at a time when "gay" was still a synonym for "dumb" in that edgy South Park way. I think testing those gender lines is fun on its own, plus women get such better clothes and options than men do. I have t-shirts and button downs and my partner has, well, a whole closet full of fun stuff to wear. Also, when I'm watching videos of whichever kink it is, I'm watching women be humiliated and I don't fantasize about being the person doing the humiliating, I'm fantasizing about being humiliated and that means putting myself in their (heeled) shoes. I think that has kind of lodged into my head as being in those fun dresses and lingerie but hasn't gone to the extent of I want female parts.

My fiance likes that I'm submissive and wear panties at home, which I am incredibly thankful for as I really do feel like that's a part of me and not just a kink anymore. I haven't introduced her to WAM, and I'm unsure if I will as it's like #3 on my kink priority list irl (and I don't want to push the limits of her patience and am constantly terrified one day I'll go too far and she'll find me unattractive), but if I do I'll be wearing lingerie while doing it. Like you, I've never been messy in men's clothes, they're just so boring!

Edit: Just to clarify I'm making it clear that I separate my crossdressing from transgenderism not for any "no homo" bro mentality, but because I am very much aware they are not remotely coming from the same mindset and think it's real weird when people do think they do. In fact, the only time I got what youngins call "the ick" in a relationship was when I told a partner I like wearing panties and she said she was afraid I'd "become trans."

Looks to me like there are several common themes.

One is that it's a turn on to see an attractive woman get covered in mess, especially if she's taken a lot of time and effort to look nice.

Two is the humiliation associated with being covered in the mess.

Third is wanting to experience it oneself, which is why it's much less appealing to be sploshed in male clothing.

Maybe it's also about the reduction of the male ego, too. No better way to reduce that than to wear feminine and restrictive clothing, make a real effort with your appearance and then to put yourself in such an inappropriate and normally unwanted situation where that pristine and beautiful clothing gets gunked on.

It's also nice to trust another person who understands all this.

There was a Domme in Glasgow called Megara Furie who used to splosh crossdressers, I don't think she does it any more. It amazes me that people on here don't organise a safe event for this sort of thing though. There aren't a huge number of folks into it, but if someone hired a venue and everyone paid a fee to come along, imagine the incredible weekend that could be on offer! You can spend a day as your feminine self and all have dinner in the evening with the clumsiest waitresses you've ever met...!

I spent about a month late this summer experimenting with crossdressing. I'm a dude, straight as a razor, felt absolutely nothing when I did it but still felt inclined to do it for reasons that I don't and may never know.

Ended it because my fiance admitted that, no matter how hard she tried, she couldn't find away to be comfortable with it. Does it still pop up in my mind? Sure. But I think those days are behind me and for the better.

Anyhow, I noticed something. The first time I ever showered in a dress, years ago, I distinctly remember getting rock hard.

During my CD phase earlier this year, I had a week where I would throw on a dress (specially a maxi, big surprise there!h and a wig and some jewelry, and work as a woman for a couple hours. Once I felt like I had gotten enough in, I'd take everything off and shower in the dress.

And noticed that I didn't get turned on whatsoever. I remember one day I had a Skims knockoff on and was somewhat excited because I had just hit leg day so my butt was popping, and to this day I *still* remember how freaking comfy that dress was. Like I'm wearing fleece lined joggers right now and this dress was softer than them. Like when I took everything to UPS and returned to Amazon (thanking my lucky stars none of the dresses had tags so I could just toss them in the washer), I was actually kind of bummed.

But I digress. Hopped in the shower. Got that dress nice and soaked. Felt nothing except as though I was wearing a spaghetti strap mermaid tail.

I think my path was different to others here though in some cases not so different. I think part of path came down to chance.

My obsession with pies and pieing came young. I remember see pie fights in movies and TV and noticed they seemed better for me when women were pied. I didn't think it was sexual until I realize I thought about it most during sex. I've mentioned it to various girl friends who try it with me to various degrees of enthusiasm (usually a lack there of).

Cross dressing came separate, later (in my twenties) and initially unconnected. I tranies and drag queens and found them to be very sexy. I considered my self straight at the time and didn't understand how this fit in with me. I went to some drag shows. Somewhere sexy, some seemed to miss the make and didn't seem feminine at all. I began to wonder how I'd look, how I'd dress

I tried makeup but was bad at it. I decided I go to bar where I new a lot of trans hung out. I vaguely thought I did someone to give advice. I didn't dress for this. One trany thought, I guess, I both cute and voyeur, here to see the freak show but be part of it. She asked be outright what it would take for me to go to bed with here. She offered to feminize me. At point a blurted, out I wanted her to pie me, pie in make up. She agreed,to my shock, surprise, horror and delight. We agreed to meet at place I think was hers, the next day. I nearly back out. i brought two pies, she brought the make up.

We drank wine and she reached out touched me her and there. She did my make up and choose a dress for me. She kissed me and stroked my thigh. She pied my face and gave me a pie hat. We finished by masturbating each other.

My dressing journey has progressed from there. I realized that dressed I felt freer more will to do what I want sexually and more open to what a partner wants. So my style has ended up more slutty the stylish many here prefer. I now I like latex and pvc outfits and costumes.

I never did hook up with that tranny again, but via her and since I've met a few "friends" that are willing even happy to indulge my thing even if none are true wammers. My friends are either CD/Tranies or what ever bucket you'd classify them and males.

I still date women but I no longer feel a need to have a pie session with them and never dress for women.

I'm straight and enjoy wearing tights, knickers and swimsuits while I get messy but that's purely because it keeps the gunge in all the fun places. I love how women's legs look in tights and I like the feel of being in the bath wearing them but it's all about the feel of the clothes for me as opposed to the fact they're women's if that makes sense.

Out of interest, how did gunge come up in conversation? Were you looking for someone to get messy with or was it just a great coincidence?

I have zero interest in getting messy in "guy clothes", getting dressed and getting messy go hand in hand. It started with just speedos and then grew from there. Psychologically I think it's part me of wanting to feel how the woman would in whatever scenario I'm doing. I've never had a bi experience irl but I've chatted about it over the internet. I also am not sure I'd be able to dress around anyone else, it's strictly a "me" thing.

Here is my input for what its worth.

I have been crossdressing for years and do it as it turns me on and I love women so turn myself into one and look back in the mirror and think I want to fuck that woman, that doesnt happen when I am in male mode, probably as I am straight.
As for the mess again its a turn on seeing women fully clothed getting gunged or pied etc but they must be wearing stockings and heels, seeing them in jeans does nothing for me as that is something I could wear in male mode. Plus the clothes are in general much thinner and much softer on the skin so add water or mess and they cling like a second skin which is a turn on. I become the woman I want to see getting messy and love it.
The humiliation side does nothing for me as I only do this in private or when I was lucky enough to have a willing partner to enjoy it with, I get messy and dress up to turn myself on and have sex whether that's alone or with someone, something that wouldnt happen in public.
I have a saying I can dress without mess but I cant mess without the dress
Keep the stockings and heels on ladies or tgirls

Stockingman got it absolutely 'spot on' there! Just the same here, though as mentioned previously, I seem to have lost the desire to both dress and mess in the last couple of years. (I keep coming back here in the hope it'll come back but it hasn't yet!)

I've just found this great little doc by Grayson Perry from 20 years ago. He always produces thought-provoking and carefully considered content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvUxfGSg-Z0

There is nothing better! X dressing and messing is the ultimate for me.

I think it's partially the humiliation thing, and partially wanting to create the content I would like to see. Most produced wam content has little to no focus on what the model is wearing, as nudity is way more popular to the mass market. Nobody is going to be making dressing up/costume wam, so I make my own.

Way back 30+ years ago, before I knew there was anyone else in the world into WAM, and being rather slimmer, I sometimes took baths in skirts and blouses, just to find out what it would feel and look like for a woman dressed like that. Most of the time I wore overalls to bathe in, which are effectively gender neutral - I could both enjoy them as me-wear and also imagine what it would be like for a woman wearing the same outfit to wear into the water, but occasionally wearing a plain knee-length skirt made a fun variation. These days though with a 44" waist I don't think I'd suit a dress or skirt any more, but fortunately there are lots of way more attractive models than me I can book to get messy instead.


Have you ever looked at our sites? We are **all** about the clothes, have been for 20 years, and we do a wide range of outfits including formal dresses, hosiery, heels, etc. I eventually realised I don't just have a WAM fetish, I also have a clothing fetish.

Great conversation, thank you for posting, just what I needed right now.

Like many, my dressing has come from a desire to see a certain type of women get messy and it started for real with Noels House Party, with Tiswas as the forerunner to that. It was always with a sense of frustration that the kind of woman I wanted to see get the gunge never really did, so I had to do it myself.

Although, I did start wearing tights when I was very young and then this carried on and grew into clothes and eventually, wigs, heels, boobs, make up. I did have desires to transition but think this was more of a fantasy about what it would be like to be a woman full time. Up to a few years ago, I dressed for this reason but also because I love tights and the feel, but also love seeing women in tights.

I would class myself at 95% straight and have had one encounter with a guy, strangely I love getting messed by a guy, the one time I did it with a woman, I didn't really enjoy it.

I've not been messy in ages, basically since Ministry of Mess left the scene, I used to go around there a few time and loved the crazy time spent there. My last mess was a huge one, on my own.

I have a partner and that makes it near on impossible to get messy anymore, she isn't interested and getting the time away since working from home has been really difficult.

The desire is still there to dress and mess, but the opportunities are few and far between, I cant really travel so would be limited to NW England and with someone I have trust with. Since the political landscape changed and trans and crossdressing have become hot topics for a moronic few, trusting who I am meeting is scary.

Would never say no though, but thats by take on how it all started