Folks! I've gone through multiple producers over the years for my scripted customs.

Jayce twice

Brooke Maddison just this year

Skylar Evans from about 10 years ago

Most Wam

Valentine Network from 10 years ago

I had great experiences with all of these producers. By and large they were faithful to my specifics, they pretty much got what I envisioned for the scenes I wrote, their production value was top notch with clear videography and good camera work.

They also continuously stayed in touch with me until the finished product was completed. Pictures of the outfits were sent to me for approval. If there was to be a delay, I was informed by them and I hardly ever had to prompt them for an update. They let me know first.

When you are handing over hundreds of dollars to essentially strangers on the net, you want to have peace of mind that what you ordered is on its way to completion with exactly how you ordered it and designed it.

These are really good and really friendly producers.

Then there is Messygirl, arguably one of the most popular producers in the WAM league, especially on the UMD, and I could not have been more disappointed or stressed out during the entire process.

When MG noticed on the forum, that I might go with Slimed Models for my next video, they messaged and asked for a look at my script, offering to produce a custom. Nearly a day of back and forth q & a were done by email and messages. MG was quick to respond that day to any silly question or concern I had. Friendly too. Money is delivered to them and I'm on my way, expecting about week turnaround for completion.

Then the temperature changed on communication. If I'd reach out for an update, there'd be no answer. After a day/day and a half, I'd ask again and get short yes/no kind of responses.

A hurricane interfered with their progress and delayed the due date. As a Florida resident I especially empathized, but then the delay turned into over a month and then nearly another month before I received the final product.

I really had to put on the frustrated jerk attitude to get a straight answer from Messygirl. I don't like to go there but MG was deliberately not being straight with me. I never cursed or insulted but I told them how wrong this process is going.

With my money in their hands, (in other words me holding up my end of the bargain ), I was hardly updated. I was hardly given any kind of attentive responses to my questions. It was a very cold connection and vibe from Messygirl.

The video finally arrives and while the gist of the script is there, there are complete contradictions to almost every specific detail I repeatedly asked for from clothes to hairstyles to levels of nudity (which I prefer minimally). All of these specifics were reiterated many times by me. They were clearly ignored.

I told them this is unsatisfactory and I requested a third of my payment returned. They complied with that request and said money would arrive in 10'days. Yet, I reminded them there wasnt even an apology or acknowledgment from them of my dissatisfaction. Very bad business considering their reputation among the WAM community. This was not what I was expecting. Very disappointing.

Two before that date for the refund, I sent them a reminder and they responded with an offer to redo the video with the all the details that I originally wanted.

I agreed to another chance.

Video came two days later than planned. No update until I reached out. One of the girls was suddenly a different girl.

The video arrived in my inbox with no heads up from MG.

While it does dot the I's and cross the T's the finished product of this second video is quite sloppy in construction for the custom monies I provided. The camera is off to the side with the ladies' backs to the camera too often (exception of specific butt shots I wanted). The hairstyles were still wrong. The sound is lousy. The clothes are not fitted properly on the performers. It looks terribly sloppy the moment the video begins.

This looks like it was made by a kid with a cell phone and certainly doesn't match the quality of much of what is in MG's vast library.

I didn't ask for a refund, but I told MG they have no business doing customs. Not when they hardly speak or update their clients. Not when they pay little attention to the details requested in the custom. Not when they opt to go with amateur like production values in their customs as opposed to what they do on their own.

This was a lousy, unsettling, and stressful experience that persisted for nearly 3 months.

It didn't have to go this way. Messygirl only cared about collecting someone's money and then whipping whatever they could in an instant with hardly any preparation or effort devoted to a project.

They certainly belong on UMD. Their history and library of videos stands on that reasoning.

However, they have no business doing custom scripts if they are going to be so ignorant, uncaring (on two occasions) and sloppy in their filming techniques,

I recommend to anyone considering a custom to tread carefully when ordering a custom from MG.

I've seen plenty of ringing endorsements of producers on the UMD forums. Sad to say, mine serves in the opposite direction.

If you're looking for a custom, consider Jayce, or if can find her Brooke Maddison. Very professional. Very honorable. Very good at giving you what you ordered.

Thank you.

Would be nice if there was a rating system for producers who do customs as this would definitely help

I'm not taking sides here but as someone who produces custom videos in and outside the WAM space and a former buyer of custom videos myself, there are a few things in your story worth highlighting.

First, I've always believed that the custom kink video business should function like video production companies outside of the fetish space, meaning you typically charge a deposit up front and the rest upon completion, maybe with a "checkpoint" payment thrown in the middle. Paying a producer in full before they even pick up a camera never sat right with me and if it were my policy outside of the kink business I'd never get a client.

At the same time, you mention being in constant contact with the producers you like, which, as a producer, is a personal red flag of mine. Assuming you and your producer come to terms on creative direction and deadlines, there's really no reason a client should be in continuous touch with the producer. In business this isn't really a concern because businesspeople have stuff to do to occupy their time. But kink clients struggle to keep their anticipation in check to the point where some custom fetish video producers enforce things like "one communication a day" policies, which is still being generous. Basically, I wouldn't make constant communication a standard of good service unless deadlines are being blown or changes to the agreed upon plan are being made.

Speaking of, customers and producers really need to be clear and thorough with their creative briefs. Not saying that you or MG were lax in expectations, but I see a lot of customers be super-specific about their detail of interest like wardrobe or pie contents and "whatever" about everything else. No. Anything you're not clear on is going to be left to interpretation and customers almost always get disappointed in things that the producer needs to choose for them. I think the onus should be on the producer, but customers should advocate for themselves by providing an idiot-proof outline of what they want their final product to look like. Don't just settle for a script. Send storyboards and inspiration images. Cite videos and scenes that you like. Send Amazon links for stuff you want to see used. Cover every base so you have something to point to if the work falls below expectation. Again, not saying you didn't do that. But I've seen it done before--I've even been guilty of that in the past.

And finally, producers, please: Charge what production is worth--and then some. WAM isn't the place for "standard" $10/minute pricing. There are a ton of hidden fees with this here fetish. My worst customs have come from producers who clearly cut cost to get it done, making the whole thing look shitty when I probably would've paid for better if they had charged me. Again, not accusing anyone of anything, but I think there would be a lot fewer disappointments if producers were less desperate for business and customers put up what things actually cost.

But like I said: not taking sides. Sorry you had a poor experience. But if this thread is going to be about custom videos, I'd love if we could finally change the culture around customs in a more productive way.

One sided story here. Before anyone takes sides let's hear Messygirls version.

This is just how he operates, apparently.

I ordered a custom from him a couple years ago. Every email was a new thread, which made it hard to follow. He had to ask a couple times if I had already paid him.

After a long wait, it finally arrived and it was not even close to what I ordered. I would call it unrecognizable. The mess was wrong, the dialogue was wrong, who got what was wrong.

He had the nerve to lie to me and say something like, oh that was a different video I sent you before filming the real one, as an apology for the wait. But the video he sent was titled "Wambassador Custom" which really kinda gave the game away.

The only good news is he refunded me, although iirc I had to pester him a bit to get it.

But yeah, don't ever go with MG for customs unless you don't care at all what the video will actually look like.

Have to agree with the others, and I remember posting similar about my efforts to get a custom from them a few years ago that was met with similar excuses. Eventually, it didn't get produced, and I managed to get a refund, albeit losing some money due to currency rates.

It's a shame to see this continuing still, but doesn't surprise me as it is allowed to happen.

Sorry for your experience. Glad you shared.

It validates that it is not just me.

I also received a PM from someone describing his bad experience.

It's not right. It's very stressful.

Doesn't make me feel good to ask for a refund or to tell MG this is not done right. I didn't want a refund. I didn't want to bring myself to an asshole level, particularly when I upheld my end.

Yet, what other choice do I have after all of this uncooperative nonsense.

It's time people know. Full disclosure is best for the community.

Definitely ask for a refund, and remember that a chargeback is always an option too.

Years ago I tried making a custom video from a content creator from a creator I had found on youtube. I submitted a script and agreed on a price and paid that producer. That producer sent me clips of their progress in a clip. However, the producer failed to complete the video from start to finish. when I inquired what happened to the finish product, that is when the excuses came and never got a completed video. Thankful it was not a ton of money lost yet was disappointed in the experience so much that it turned my off from customs video purchases.

Hey,

Messygirl has created a lot of great customs for me. In fact, I think we've almost always had something going at any given time for the last few years.

Sometimes things have taken longer than expected due to various factors. But when the final product comes in, it's always been well worth the wait.

Yay.... this weeks episode of DramaUMD

How many times do I have to tell you people, it's UMDrama not DramaUMD!

On a serious note though, if anyone has a bad experience with someone who's on the UMD custom producers list, message MM and let him know. Feedback from users is the only way the list will get updated, producers, even established ones, have been taken off the list before due to too many complaints.

Anyone can get one custom wrong, and of course a lot of things are subjective, and producers have to beware of dodgy customers making up spurious issues in an attempt to get two or more scenes for the price of one - but issues are being raised by multiple people and becoming a pattern, that suggests a problem. I'd also agree with a lot of what @TheSpecialist said upthread, esp that payment should be deposit in advance, then balance on proof of completion, not everything paid up front.

This is also why, as MM recommends, there should always be a very detailed contract-cum-scene-specification, written down and agreed by customer and producer. If the contract says "Model X in this red dress (url of where dress can be bought) and Model Y in these dungarees (url to photo of model Y in the dungarees in question from a prior scene) then there is no excuse for the producer to deviate from either models or clothing choices, and also no way for the customer to later claim "but it was supposed to be Model A naked and Model B in a Japanese school uniform, the producer should have inferred that when I said 'sexy 2-girl redhead uniform scene'", after the scene is shot.

Basically both sides should protect themselves with a properly detailed contract.

Note MM has no actual power over producers, but the Approved Custom Producers List is a useful community resource, and worth maintaining.

And finally, as a producer who has done them in the past, customs are incredibly hard work, and high risk. If you're shooting for yourself and the models accidentally go off script or do things in the wrong order, you can usually just roll with it as long as the camera can still see all the important stuff happening. But in a custom shoot, given that you can't "un-mess" someone, anything beyond a very minor deviation and you basically have to re-shoot the whole thing on a different day, doubling your costs, and either scrap the first shoot or let it run but just count it as a stock one, which will then be very similar to but different from the actual custom, and so probably won't sell many copies.

Is there not a window here for some kind of 'all encompassing' customs form that all the producers in here could take a look at and the end goal is some kind of universal customs format?

Failing that, someone willing to attended all messy shoots as production monitor and help the models when they go off script.

I volunteer as tribute

MG has a very well established history here of ripping people off and there was a large thread about it which MM deleted.

Wow!!! I hope the latter half of that statement isn't true. Disappointing if it is.

The thread started with someone staying that MG had ripped them off, then many others joined the thread to tell their story. Again, it's since been deleted.

Will the thread be allowed to continue?
Will MG reply?
Will MM delete the thread?
Will Zoey finally come to her senses and marry me?
Find out next week in....

DramaUMD

Depends. I agree with you that is how it SHOULD be, particularly when you venture into Weddings, Corp Events, etc but I noticed things abruptly shift once you venture into the fetish world. There is no such thing as "Net terms" with fetish models so it is understandable if the producer needs the money up front HOWEVER:

This doubles down on the level of expectation of the producer. You better be communicative, detailed, and every bit as excited to put this on as your client or you are going to hear it if you fail to meet these expectations.


This is generally why I will only take on a select number of customs/commissions at a time. Would it be nice to keep things to just a few emails? Sure, but this isn't reality. The client is going to get excited about their product, especially if this is their first rodeo with you. This isn't a shoot and dump with a production company you worked with over a dozen times. If they are not getting pumped about the fact that a fantasy they wanted with their fave models is coming into fruition then they are up about their first experience with the process. That being said, best policy is as you described. Once we have a green light on the script/Story board, shoot day and the creative direction, It's full send unless something comes up or a question arises.


THIS!

Detail is everything to me. If I am finding myself asking all the questions in our first communication, there isn't enough detail.

I know there are a swath of producers who will openly say they hate it but these guys have 10-20 customs to fulfill by the end of the week. BE DETAILED! It is YOUR video. You are paying for the benefit of being the creative director of how the video plays out. Live it up and producers, give that to them (within the boundaries and limits of your talent, of course). Every client I have had has done a pretty smash up job at this from sending video source material, links, stories etc. That all helps me get a better outline on your creative vision to assemble a healthy storyline for your custom. Otherwise, You are going to get the producers best interpretation, which more often than not, may not hit all the marks for you.


Again, This. I am not sure how anyone expects to pay a model a modest wage off some of these custom prices I see. Charge appropriately. Customs are bespoke, and within the WAM genre, NOTHING is easy about it. The prep, cost of materials, Outfits to ruin, the mess, and clean up all adds into the cost of labor required for a shoot to take place. Charge for what it is and likewise, Customers need to be more realistic about what these things cost to produce.


I agree wholeheartedly! I think it's a discussion worth having because I see a wide variance across the board of what people's experience is with them. You make solid points and I am interested in hearing what people have to say on it

We do an average of 145 shoots a year and over half of them are customs. So at times there might be some miscommunication and things are missed in shoots. So if that happens we offer a full refund or reshoots.

Gooeypiefight asked for Zoey and Penelope in a pie shoot. At the time Zoey had just had her baby and was just starting to shoot again, but limited on days due to being a new mom. So it took a bit longer to find a date to get her and Penelope together. Then we had a hurricane and that caused a power outage that lasted 4 days, and this caused all our cream we use to mix for our pies to go bad. So we had to deal with reordering and that cause more of a delay on his shoot and others. When we finally had the date set for his shoot, the slacks we had for Penelope to wear didn't fit properly, so we had to use dark color slacks. When we sent him the video, he thanked us, but understandable was not happy. So he requested a partial refund, but we offered a full one. He mentioned he really wanted to see his shoot happen, so we offered a reshoot with the proper clothing and with Anastasia replacing Zoey. When he received that one, he was still not happy with the way it turned out, next thing we know he blasting us on the UMD. We have been communicating with him during the process over 45 times. So there was no lack of communication during all this. The outfits he didn't like are posted below.

Wambassador ordered a schoolgirl shoot with Dakota. At the time we had 3 other school girl shoots for her. We dropped the ball and mixed up the scripts. So he received what he didn't want and asked for a refund that he got. Later that year he RSVP for our Live UMD Vegas show. It would have been nice to have a face to face with him to discuss further what happened, but I was never approached by him at the event.

Taiko wanted a custom with Penelope. At the time she was living out of state and her times to shoot were limited, so it was a longer wait. Then her mom passed away and she took some time off to be with her family. She said she could shoot the following month and we asked Taiko if that would be ok with him, he said he rather get a refund and wait to shoot after Covid. He never got back to us.

Johnnypie is just a "rival" producer who only comes out when something negative is said about us. He posed as a first time custom customer awhile back to find out what we charge for customs. He then started the rumor that I was a pathetic old man in his late 60s who needed a cane to get around at our shoots.

WOW!

This is why Dirty Muse never offered customs. I love the UMD and most of the community, but some members are a royal pain in the A** Your lucky someone is willing to make a custom for you, this fetish like any other can be so specific its had to get it right. We deal with models who have lives and can be unreliable some you might not realize that. As producers we have lives too, making WAM movies is not that profitable so its somewhat a labor of love, jezzzzzzz

MG is too nice, I am not. (See enclosed graphic) I have known MG for decades and they always do their best, if its good enough, fast enough have a little tolerance and understanding or one day all the producers like me will refuse to do customs.

Phil

I agree with this word for word. The Cadence and Zoey pie fight that just came out took 10 months to happen. This was because for several reasons.

1. I am specific about which girls I want and I definitely wanted Cadence.

2. Cadence ghosted MG for 2 or 3 months for whatever reason.

3. The shoot was set to go but then there was the hurricane. Argh


But like scroggy said, it ended being worth the wait and MG and the girls got every detail right. I was a happy customer and have a 3 girl custom in the works. I think MG said Cadence is coming back in October and we can do it then HOPEFULLY.

MG has shot a custom for me. Great communication and the product with what I was looking for. Just my two cents.

I ordered two customs from MG. The first one I ordered was back in January for a mud custom and it came out in June, but I had the patient of a saint and it was worth the wait. For the second custom the model was only on Saturdays but I can wait as long as I can. Messygirl makes some of the best scenes ever.

What I have always wondered about customs is do the Producers who make the videos for people and charge them for pretty much every part of production and then some, and then turn around and sell them as scenes, obtain the customers permission to do so...or even offer to give a percentage of the money back to them? Because at that point you are ostensibly the Producer and main investor. They are selling the scenes on here or on other fetish sites, and they are making 100% profit off your dime. It seems like a real Sh**y thing to do. I once obtained a custom off fiver(remember that) and the person starting selling it around fetish sites. I wrote them and told them I didn't want them selling it or at least I would be be cool with it for a free scene (that they already had in the can) as it seemed like a fair trade, and they basically told me to Fu** off!

As you've decided to post that up here, I'll happily chip in with some further information then.

As others mentioned, communication was great up until the point cash was handed over to you in full. From there, everything died a death. It wasn't a one-off you missing a date that you'd set, as this happened on a few occasions.

My message at the time was that I would revisit post-Covid (Was 2022, so not at the height but still relevant). Wht convinced me not to return at the time was that, after a sustained period of you providing no updates unless I reached out, I had to message MM. You finally began responding, but when the topic of refund came about, you requested to take the conversation to emails and not PM's on here.

I think this is because you did not want it to be seen that your proposal was to refund but only 5 weeks after the original request for one. You cited transaction limits on your account as the reason, but this just appeared another excuse.

I eventually got the refund from you 3 months after the original order, and 2 months after the original shoot date you had proposed. I

The fact that other people are also posting about long delays to the timescales you set suggests this was never an isolated incident, and still happens to you on a regular basis. One off events happen, and I/we get that, but this is an issue you appear to constantly have with multiple different people.

I've always thought of that as an advantage. Like I'm always hoping that my customs will sell really well, so the producer thinks to themselves "wow, this is a great thing to do" and is super keen to take my call or even continue the concept without me.
Like the HGD series, I sponsored most, but not all of them. I always get a kick when messygirl posts a new model like "what should we do" and then someone posts "Human Garbage Disposal!"

This should certainly be established upfront (no surprises later). However, I think it's normal for customs to be sold elsewhere, because the original customer isn't covering the full cost of the scene. Putting that another way, you'd need to pay extra if you want exclusive access, to compensate for the lost income.

Respectfully, the client is a client. Not a producer, not an investor, a client. They ask for a product, they pay for a product, and they get the product. And with a digital creative asset like a video, the rights to it remain with the producer until they're transferred over via contractual agreement. Otherwise, the client can just enjoy what he or she paid for and be on their way. And seeing as the profit margin on a custom fetish video is practically zero anyway, a client who insists on copyright in addition to the video would be shown the virtual door swiftly. I'd just as soon stay in bed and make the same amount of money for myself.

I should probably not derail this thread, but this amazes me. WIth the sheer amount of WAM videos out there I am always surprised at how many people order customs. Surprised that you can't find a video out there by someone that matches or comes close to what you really dig for a mere fraction of what you would pay for a custom. I understand people having specific tastes but that above number is a lot of customs for just one producer. Must be a lot of you custom orderers out there. I have a hierarchy of tastes that all mesh.
pies uber alles
slapsticky v. pornbased
I like certain models over others
etc.
under those broad tastes I have pretty specific preferences (I like restaurant scenes, I like shoe-filling, I like brunettes).
Instead of paying $300 (total guess for what these things cost), I can get around 20 videos from various producers that touch on some or most of my interests.
To each his own I guess. Maybe I am not a discerning WAM connoisseur. Or maybe I am just cheap.

I've always figured it would be an assumption that the custom would also be made available on the site for general use.

As for your investor thing- I see where you're coming from. But also- if someone is paying for a custom then we can reasonably assume that they're paying for a video because what they want is not available on the site because not enough people are interested in it. So beyond the money that you pay for the scene they're not making much money if at all from the scene.

But I also may just be generalizing.