Here are some still shots from way back - from our first three shoots ever. Never before posted here.

tiedpiedandmessycuties.com
pieagirl.com
playwithmypie.com
strap-onpiegirls.com

Wow! Outstanding pics!

Great-looking models! Fabulous mess! :lovestruck:

Norman

Awesome pics, man! Are you still producing?

Yes, we're still producing. We are just not releasing anything. We have a lot of videos in the can that we're just sitting on. Some of new stuff might not ever see the light of day. They could end up just being for me and my wife's personal viewing pleasure. Truth of the matter, we are simply watching the warm market, to see where its going. Overall support has not been very good for a long time now. We've seen a lot of producers close up shop. People now want cheap priced wam, the more amateur the better, and we are simply not going down that road - now way, no how. The female producers who star in their own cheaply produced, cheaply priced, amateur videos, have killed it for the bigger budgeted producers ( with the exception of a few producers who built up a big following right from the start who are still surviving). Its now become very hard to compete. Just not worth all the time editing, etc, only to sell just a few vids. If we don't feel that we can at least break even, we are certainly not going to be in any hurry to put out new stuff. Sorry, but that is what its come to.

First off, I'm not a producer, so I may be way off base here. But I get the feeling there is a larger untapped market out there that may be worth exploring. Have you tried opening a store on sites that reach more people like clips4sale? Or maybe even just throwing samples up on xtube and the like? Not even with new videos, but ones you've already put out.

Just a month ago, someone noticed that a few Slapstick Stuff GIFs were posted on a more mainstream site: http://umd.net/forums/coedcom_posts_gifs_from_slaps. On the same day in this post: http://umd.net/forums/thanks_all, SStuff announces, "Today was one of my best single days for download store sales since... Well, a long time." I'd be curious to know if Rich thinks these two occurrences are related.

This site has 25,038 members, half of which have not logged on in over a year. But let's be generous and say there are 15,000 active members. That's less than .005% of the U.S. population, and this is a worldwide site. Of course a large percentage of that population (like children, elderly, etc.) would have no interest in a porn/fetish site. But I find it hard to believe that if you put me in a room with 20,000 people that I would be the only one with enough interest in pied girls, mud wrestling, or even wet t-shirts to get me to sign up. Now of course there's a big difference between signing up for UMD and making purchases. But still, 20,000 to 1?

UMD is a cozy community and an old friend. I shudder to think what would happen if membership increased by even 50% in terms of forum traffic and bandwidth bottlenecks. But if revenue increased enough maybe upgrades could keep pace. Again I'm no producer, and folks like you and MessMaster are in the only positions right now to see the bigger picture in real terms. We all know the adult industry in general is hurting. But I've got to wonder what an effective professional marketing firm would think of the current strategies in place. Short of that, maybe poking around outside the current box a bit more will show if larger strategies are worth pursuing. No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the american public :devil:

If I'm just being naive, consider the above a prayer to see things get better for you all. Hate to see so many stores shut their doors, especially for people doing what they love.

SOPG:

you wrote: "The female producers who star in their own cheaply produced, cheaply priced, amateur videos, have killed it for the bigger budgeted producers."

I'm not sure i get it; no offense intended (honestly), but the images you posted (above) look EXACTLY like they come from "cheaply produced, cheaply priced, amateur videos"...what with the plastic (and highly reflective) tarps in the back grounds, uneven lighting, various quality pies, etc...another way of saying this is that these images do NOT convey an impression of "big budgeted" production; quite the opposite (which does not mean that they have no appeal, obviously, amateurish videos DO have large appeal)...it seems to me that, if your assertion is correct, then your videos (assuming the images posted above come from your videos) should do well...

To SMESS:

There's a major flaw in your numerical reasoning: you note only the registered users...but the umd gets MILLIONS of views per month (majority of which NEVER register, for privacy reasons, perhaps)....Now, obviously only a smll percentage actually BUY videos, but a small percentage of 1 MILLION (or greater) is much larger than a small percentage (or the same %) of 25 K...and, with all the links here to other wam producer sites, I'm guessing that the majority of consumers head to these sites to buy DLs (perhaps some % fewer do so now that umd has its own store)...most visitors to the umd never even visit this forum...

In short, there is no way to accurately estimate the percentage of umd visitations that result in a sale

But I agree, if there was a 50% increase in umd traffic (which would be 500K going with the 1M figure I quote), this would tseem to ranslate into more sales for more people.

That said, it's all about exposure (publicity, I mean)...meaning: enough people with the same or similar interests must see your site or pics or promo videos...Filthy Rich does this quite well (he is perhaps the best business "model" for wam production, currently)...that is, FR makes sure that barely 3 or 4 days go by without a visitor here seeing some of his SS material...plus, he has promo clips all over the place (YT, others)...so, he gets tons of exposure (plus his stuff is of a basic/reliable level of quality, and the models are consistently "hot")...but I don't mean to hype FR's stuff...

Perhaps the producer of Wet and Messy would like to chime in here; his stuff is consistently high-quality production value...don't know what his sales are like...

Just my opinion so no offense intended to anyone who reads this. This, as with most fetishes, is very subjective. I find it rare that someone hits exactly what I may be looking for in a video, or does it perfect from a production stand point. We all have our particular likes and dislikes. To think we might make that mass appeal vid that thousands buy is a fantasy. That does not mean people are doing very well, but we're not in a fetish that has enormous mainstream appeal.

To believe that the market has been flooded by people who are making videos that don't meet a standard or sell for a lower price, and is therefore hurting sales is kind of the wrong way to look at it. In fact, it might actually help more then it hurts.

What I have found is that people like the variety. Does that translate directly to sales? Not always. There in lies the competition. What are they doing? Charging? that gets them more of the market. Are you advertising enough. Do people know you even exist? They might have a couple of years ago, but this is an ever changing demographic with new arrivals every day. Just this post probably got you a few sales.

We make vids. Some people like them and some do not. Oh well. We make what we want to see, just like I'm sure many others do. Seems like we sell a few every time we get ourselves out there on the forums. Shameless plug-currently offering buy 2 get one free!!!! Look up Mistress C's page for details. Some people make many, many vids covering a wide variety of interests. I'm sure in their case they pick up lots of incremental sales just by posting the ad for the latest vid they just made. People see them the first time, and maybe they don't buy the vid they just posted but one of their others.

If you're not making the money you want too, or think you should, then the problem is with your strategy and effort. I know that it can appear that certain producers are doing this for a living but I can assure you they are not. Instead of throwing in the towel and giving up, look at some simple elements.

You've made and invested what appears to be a lot of money in your videos. Is the web hosting you're using worth what you're paying for it? Would it be easier and more cost effective to set up a download store where the market is-meaning here on the UMD. Yeah, they get a cut of each sale, but so what, they deserve to get a cut for the service they provide. They also have a search engine that directs people to the content they're looking for too. How many people are searching the web right now for strap on pie videos? Chances are more people are searching the download stores here for that then the world wide web.

Take a look at your pricing. How does it compare to other vids? Are you stuck on getting a return for what you put into it. At this point, you may be well past that. I walk in and out of retail stores daily. My products sits on the shelves of these stores. In some places it sells like crazy, in others it doesn't. Most of the time when it doesn't it's because the retailer wants to make a certain percent of gross profit, and keep the retail price higher then they should. My response to that answer is: 35% of $0 is still $0. Another way to look at it is: what makes more money selling 2 items at 30% gross profit or 1 at 35%?

And finally, you have to consider your buyers. Not everyone is in a committed relationship where their better half is into this. Nor do they want to get caught buying fetish vids on-line. They might be able to get away with the $5 purchase that no one notices, but $15 might raise an eye-brow.

I know that we all think we know exactly what we want to see and because it's what we want to see, then that's what everyone else wants to see and on and on and on.
It doesn't work like that. Production quality, high priced models doesn't always equal sales. Fair price, low production costs, and accepting that what the market tells you will go further then any of that.

Fair point, wamajama. I'm just using the signups as a crude barometer as I have almost nothing else to go on numbers-wise. Just putting it in perspective: If you and I went to a packed house at Wrigley Field, we two would be the only ones who are active members -- people who know about UMD and are motivated enough to sign up and visit at least semi-regularly. But start a mudwrestling match in the middle of the diamond and I think there would be a larger reaction!

And I don't mean to pick on UMD -- love it the way it is! Surely P.T. Barnum would give it a lot more exposure, but that would be a very different site indeed. Or Ron Propiel. Or that "Girls Gone Wild" guy. Brrrrrrr. Money ain't everything, that's for sure.

Thanks for these. These are more to my taste than a lot of what is being produced today. You got fun poses, "throwing the pie back" great expressions, realistic hits and coverage, it's lovely.

In all this discussion, no one mentioned that the "Female producers" can often produce their work for less because they are their own models. I think it's a positive thing that models would decide to get in on the business for themselves. Who ever said that it's best that they work for a "male producer" who takes a cut. If you can make something that is good enough that people pay for it, then people will buy it. I know I have a couple of your older vids. But, if you don't think your stuff can survive in the market for ROI, then it's time to reevaluate, instead of blaming the "female producers." It's a great trend that women should take more active roles in production and business, isn't it? What's wrong with that?