**Note to self: be sure to piss off Penelope**

Please and thank you! Penelope in a white bikini and chef hat getting decked with pies in a Crusty's Cream Pies skit, or getting clobbered with cakes in a rude restaurant patron scene? Hell yes.

Well let's set up a session!! When will you be back?!

I see you're trying to have a lil play date with me?!

I'm glad that your experience with MG was good but no need to throw shade. Not all of us are okay with waiting months after an agreed on date and payment for a video.

Penny hunny.

Do you have your own website??

sent you a DM

Hahaha. You're so silly!!

I sympathize with you and with MG. I think the reason why some people are reacting negatively is because they have adopted a "you get what you pay for" mindset. It is probably best to go into these situations differently as both a producer and a customer. On the producer side, it sounds like hearing about how the amount you are able to pay may affect the timeline and prioritization of your request substantially would be useful. On the customer side, I'm learning that (as someone who has only begun to think about ordering a (private) custom) it's probably a good idea to ask about all of these details - not just trusting a casually stated timeline, but to ask the going rate, the average time to completion when someone pays that rate vs the rate I'm offered, if I can receive a discount if it takes far longer than planned, etc. I know this is a larger due diligence than shopping at the mall. But this isn't mall shopping, and producers almost always have public lives to balance with large private productions. So there's inherently more risk in these sorts of transactions.


At any rate, I wish everyone well. I think this whole discussion and all sides of it make a lot of sense. Not getting what you were promised sucks. Overpromising because you're optimistic happens, especially when it's not a formal contract or a public/corporate commitment. This is an informal marketplace. It generally works because it's about as much a community as it is a market. Communities have expectations of their members, but they also tend to assume the best when those expectations aren't met. And I think that's hard when someone puts money into something, because they often want that something to work more like a formal market.

Wanted to include my experience real quick. Got a custom from MG about a year ago. Id say 90% of what i put in my script was followed , communication was on point, and the time line was about a month. The real kicker was a THIRD model was added to my pie fight scene with no extra charge. so that was a massive bonus!

I don't think these types of threads shouldn't exist, but I think both sides should be heard for sure. MG has produced some of the greatest pie content to date and I appreciate their craft and efforts. After seeing the type of production, they did with The Great Race Pie Fight scene I for sure will be getting another custom in the future.

In my experience dealing with customs (primarily non wam related), it's best to be transparent and get a YES or NO for a custom request. And if you get a YES, there should be a guaranteed delivery date. While some things COULD come up, it's best for the producer to under promise and over deliver.

Now if someone asked me for a custom for a messy BJ video or anything close to this for $75, I would tell them that I could not produce it at that price. The cost of talent, supplies, editing time, etc isn't possible to produce without losing money. The End. I think that accepting an offer and procrastinating or never completing the custom because "you get what you pay for" just leaves everyone frustrated. If a custom can't be completed, that money should be returned IMO.

Been following this thread with interest, given we do sometimes offer customs, but it's not business we chase and has always been a very minor part of what we do overall.

I get the impression that sometimes people forget what a "custom" actually is - it's a tailor made production ultra-specific to a single customer's exact script. It's an ultra-premium sexual fantasy product, and as such should absolutely command a premium price.

Anyone who tries to "adjust" a custom to make it "more saleable" has completely missed the point - when pricing a custom, what the original customer pays should completely cover all costs, fees, outfit and substance requirements, studio expenses, taxes, and a profit margin, so that even if it never sells a single other copy than the original, everyone gets paid and the producer makes a profit on it. And that means the producer and models can produce it exactly as the customer wanted, regardless of any saleability considerations.

Customs are incredibly hard work. If as a producer you're shooting for yourself, and someone goes off script, does things in the wrong order, uses the wrong gunge first, whatever - it doesn't really matter. You can just roll with it and let the shoot carry on and still get a perfectly usable scene by the end of it. If on the other hand it's a custom and someone messes up (pardon the pun), you're scuppered. You could let the shoot carry on just as a general for sale one, though because it's very close to the custom you may not get many sales of it. Or you can just abandon - but the models will still expect at least part payment especially if they had started getting messy before it derailed. So now you're out of pocket and you still have to replace used supplies, clean or replace outfit elements, and re-arrange the actual custom shoot with the same models again for another date.

Someone upthread mentioned transparency. Now I'm in a different wam sector to MG, we don't do nudity at all on our mainline sites. But our base price for a custom is £300+VAT, which is £360 all in. And that's just the base price if no special outfit elements or props are needed and we just use clothes we already have in the wam wardrobe. For that the customer gets two models, who get £150 between them, plus £100 spent on messy food or gunge, plus £50 profit for us (and the UK government makes 20% tax). Any special costume elements would be charged extra at cost price. The models will follow the customer's script as tightly as possible within reason, and make sure that all the main elements are done in the correct order and as the customer specifies.

We might make suggestions during the negotiation stage for tihings we think will enhance the scene, but not to make it "more saleable", just things we thing might add to the customer's experience. For example in the original Rainwear Mess Test (which was a custom) it was our idea to have the girls put a slice of gateaux and half a can of custard down the backs of each other's spandex catsuits before they put their clean waterproofs on over the top, because we thought that knowing they were getting squelchy down below even as they were pulling the clean rainwear on would be sexier. But any effect on subsequent sales never crossed my mind, it was all about making the scene as enjoyable as possible for the initial customer. The customer liked the idea so we went with it, and have repeated it in every subsequent variation of that scene (we've shot 4 of them to date, 3 mainline and one kinkier).

Honesty in timescales is also important. We've always said that once the scene is agreed, and locked (no changes allowed), and the deposit paid, we shoot it in three months or cancel and refund. Given that models can get ill or not be available for one reason or another, it's perfectly reasonable to have a longish time window to do it in, but not an unlimited one.

And for payment, as I've said for years, 50% in advance, 50% on completion, is a fair way to split the risk between customer and producer. The initial 50% should cover most of the setup costs to arrange it, with the second 50% covering everything else. All of this is covered in the deal negotiation and signed off by the customer before the first payment is taken. We have had customers keen to pay the full amount up front but to be honest I actually like the extra impetus to complete that comes with knowing there's 50% still to come. It defintely helps focus on getting it done.

What's especially nice about this thread is that we're able to have a frank conversation about a very influential producer here. Mr MG is often WOTD, and I think was the unofficial WOTY for being WOTD so often. So the fact that we can have a civil discussion and respectfully hash out some potentially dirty laundry is great.

Weeks/months ago, someone asked if we're getting better at calling out bad behavior here. I think generally, I see good progress here when it comes to randos posting inappropriate content, but we're still trying to get there when it comes to important/beloved producers and alleged issues.

In my experience, a lot of these threads start with someone with an axe to grind against a particular model, and then the model shows up and says, "I'd be happy to post screenshots of all of our emails, texts, contracts, etc. laying out our timelines, which you're ignoring in your grievance rantd" and then the thread basically dies, OR we get someone posting, "Hey, NakedPieGirl696969 on Insta is a scam, watch out!"

So, what's really refreshing in THIS thread is we can hash out precisely what the potential problems are, and if others have the same problems, and do so in a civil manner thus far.

I like the idea of a profit margin. Don't offer a discount for a saleable custom, offer a profit share. If you have a great idea for a custom, you pay all the costs and then if it sells you get something like 50% of the profits. If it doesn't sell, you still got your custom and the producer has more content in their catalog. Plus the producer knows if that type of content sells or not. The Human Garbage Disposal started as a custom and has turned into a semi regular thing.

I have ordered a few customs in my life. Only one really lived up to my ask. I had one with a highly prolific wammer on here. She was very fluid with pricing and initial ask was $500 and I passed as I was just curious. Next thing I know she was throwing $400 then $300 at me. We agreed at $300 (I couldn't say no to her!) and it was a very loose interpretation of my script and was clearly more focused on it's resale value and appeal. It was still great but I wasn't going to complain for $300. I was 75% happy with the end product. I just didn't like the fact she tried to sell me photos of the shoot after for $200.
Many years ago I was talking to a legendary wammer about doing a custom, (she is no longer here, but she was a babe...) she started really high for a pretty basic sesh (2 girls and a ton of brownie batter) I balked at the price and she just flipped back at me and said "well just tell me what you can afford and we'll do it " Not really the best way to set an industry standard but to each their own.

I originally created this thread to talk about the lack of professionalism I have received trying to get a custom I paid for. But after MG mentioned I paid a $75 deposit (50%), a lot of producers start saying I deserved to get treated the way I did because of the amount I paid. Again, this was an agreed on amount. If what I offered wasn't enough than he did not have to accept. I didn't force him and I really didn't even have to bargain, I just asked.

I understand that $150 is super cheap for what I asked for, and I can also understand that things happen and schedules fall apart. But being ignored and lied to is what is unacceptable. And this issue still has not been addressed. Multiple people in this thread who have paid full price have had the same issue and people have also DMed privately as well. This thread went off track and about industry standard pricing instead.

And to those who have had positive experiences working with MG, congrats! But your positive experience doesn't mean that those of use who have had negative experiences don't exist.

FYI, I tired posting our DMs but Messmaster says its not allowed. So if you want to see it than will have to arrange another way.

Reading this thread really makes me think of a few things. I have no doubt that the experiences with messygirl and other customs are genuine, but I think that the problem is much more with mismatched expectations than with unprofessionalism.

I've got customs from many producers, and they all have their own different way of working. And maybe what I want from a producer fits so well with messygirl and that's why they've been so good for me.
From working with messygirl, the best way to get the best custom is to keep it very high level and focus on one or two main points that you want. Messygirl knows how to make messy things that are really good. I don't. So the more I tell them what to do, the worse the custom will be.
Think of it like if a studio hired David Lynch or Quentin Tarantino. You want those people doing what they do. If studio exec's start messing with the movies, it ruins the magic.
Pretty much all the best elements of my customs are actually things that messygirl did "off script" from an earlier custom, and I was like "I love that, keep that in my next custom".
This also means that occasionally I've got a custom that doesn't really appeal to me for whatever reason, but I don't complain unless it's like totally wrong because I want producers to risks and do creativity and to see things I didn't expect to see.

Even Human Garbage Disposal wasn't really my idea. I didn't stay up all night brainstorming. my first custom was literally

everything else was just MG doing what they do best. I didn't have to like spell out exactly what to buy or tell him what order to pour things or script reactions or anything. And if had done all that I think it would have been worse.

Some other producers have wanted me to say exactly how many tins of mess I want and how long it should be and tons of other details. It's annoying because I don't want to have to do the work of thinking of the scenario and mapping everything out. By the time I've done all that I've already had to imagine the scene and that ruins it because when I see it it's not fresh.



I disagree strongly with this approach for everything.
I'm often asking for a producer to make more of something they already made that I liked. If they asked me to cover everything then they won't get anything. Like I'm kind of bribing the producer to shift things my way rather than going against what they already want to do.



HGD's pop up from all kinds of producers now without my sponsorship. But I still step in when there's a model I have to see get one.

Now to me that isn't a custom at all - that's a "Sponsored Shoot", which is a level down from a full custom. We've done a few like that where the customer supplies a specific clothing item - like the shiny nylon sports shorts you'll see in several of our scenes - but then lets us decide what and who to shoot with them, but knowing they'll be used in scenes that include things like clothes filling, sitting in stuff, slathering all over the outside, and/or mud scenes, etc.

Re HGD - I love the pose and the way the mess is poured down their fronts and slides between their legs. Messy Married Couple did something similar in a really nice outfit in their slime spa. Tempted to do a fully clothed version with some of the girls here at some point.

Agree almost completely with your whole post. I would only add to the specific comments above that I suppose it depends how customised the custom was and how much deviation there was in the first attempt at shooting it. Are there ever conversations during custom orders that provide for a level of unintended deviation? Equally, how much conversation or negotiation is there after a first attempt had some deviation? I feel there's more than just the two options of 'continue and shoot to sell' or 'abandon and go again another time' - but that is of course dependent on communication!

Anyway, I realise that's also deviating a little from the initial topic. So to keep on track, maybe OP can confirm if the custom order came with any deviation agreements, providing MG more chance to deliver for the price agreed within agreed timescales.

In general I advise customers not to try and micro-direct every minute of the scene, as while that can be done it means it gets filmed in lots of really short takes resulting in a rather disjointed scene that doesn't really "flow". Instead, I suggest that people specify the most important points, and the order they want specific events or elements to happen in, but otherwise let the girls get on with it themselves. But that does mean these essential elements absolutely must be done in the correct order and with the correct substances / actions / events, and usually the start of the sequence will be vital to get right.

For example imagine a scene with two models. One is in a thin spandex dress over leggings, the other is in sporty underwear over which she's going to put on a tracksuit. Ostensibly the one in the tracksuit is having her outfit "tested" but she gets to get her own back by gradually messing up the tester between having stuff done to herself. The customer specifies that before they begin, the girl in the dress and leggings is to have a bottle of syrup poured into the back of her leggings, so that her bum will be all sticky and squelchy as she moves about passing the tracksuit trousers and jacket to the other girl and helping her dress in them. Then, between each test element she carries out on the tracksuit girl, she's to have first syrup, then later custard, then later still, soup, poured into the front of her leggings (raising her dress and then lowering it back into place each time). Meanwhile the girl in the tracksuit is to first have her track pants filled with custard at the front while she's sitting down, and then to be made to sit in a cake, with the custard from the filling already starting to leak through from inside. All of these elements are specific and must be done in the right sequence. But once the girls are both quite messy in their leggings and trousers, the exact sequence of what they do to each other's lower halves next becomes less important, because adding mess to mess has a less distinctive effect than pouring mess into fresh clean clothes does. The customer might also want their top halves done in a specific order, but again the initial "clean to first mess" will be much more important to get absolutely correct than a general messy free-for-all that follows where they just let rip at each other.

In the example above, if the other girl poured custard down the back of the tester's leggings instead of the intended syrup that'd be a deal-breaker. Now hopefully I'd have spotted the other girl picking up the wrong item and stopped the shoot and started again. But suppose we're part-way in and the leggings girl gets carried away and quickly pours soup, not custard, into the tracksuit girl's pants first, and before I could call stop. If the customer had specifically said "custard, then cake, soup not till later on", then as far as I'm concerned we're off-script. We could carry on and make it our own scene, but would need to reconvene later with same models and freshly washed (or replaced) outfits, to shoot the actual custom. I wouldn't try and fob the customer off with the incorrect sequence, as it's not what they paid for.

Of course what matters to one person may be completely irrelevant to another - I imagine there will be people reading the above thinking "so what", or even (given this is an MG thread) "why have they got clothes on at all? - but that's the sort of stuff it's essential to fully nail down in the negotiations before shooting. I mean the ideal custom from my POV would be "I want any two of your people, wearing any outfits you like, taking turns to throw 100 banana milkshakes over each other, here's the £360 fee and my sisters' milkshake factory will deliver 200 milkshakes, where do I send them?" But in reality most people who order a custom want it rather more specific than that.

I really wish I could just post the pics of our chat but its against the rules as MessMaster has told me. But I had him a script that I think is closer to a custom than a sponsored type video. The script
that was about 150 words. I had basically asked for a scene where the model is laying on her back, has red lip stick, takes some pies to face and a POV blowjob. I had sent him this multiple times to make sure he remembered because I waited a while for the custom and didn't want him to forget. Every time I sent the script he would say 'Sure thing' or 'Will do'. Nothing to indicate that there may be variation.

Exact script I ask for:

The scene will be shoot in the 2 angles that I specified. I don't want there to be cuts between the angles, I would like the video to be angle 1 and then angle 2. I would like the model to be nude and wearing red lipstick, and start the video of with like a minute of just clean blowjob. Then come the pies. I would like marshmallow pies with Oreo crust. 6 pies in total. First pie after a minute, second pie a bit after that and then a third pie a bit after that. Then clean her face off. Then a bucket of thick green slime while she is giving the BJ. Not the clear stuff, like a thicker cake batter. Then clean her face off again, and repeat with 3 pies again. End with a pie in the face, and a facial with her face still covered from facial, and some more sucking after the facial to finish it off.

So like this one:
https://messygirlblowjobs.com/cgi/autogal.pl?vidnum=tws-184-0056

Wait. This is a thing?! Why?! This has to be the most contemptible thing I have read. Why wouldn't you want to let a model make a living?

Two women that I have worked with previously have gone on to work with more established fetish producers and I am absolutely elated for them.

Well said, all of it.

I have literally been offered 200-400.00 for a topless and nude mud wrestling scenes of 15 minutes or more. Like, that doesn't even pay the models for their time much less the attire, materials, transportation costs (this stuff doesn't just fit into the back of a car), and my labor.

What will happen if this continues is you are going to see reputable and quality producers and/or models entertain customs less and less with each low ball offer which you will have forsaken for the ones willing to entertain 75.00 messy BJ customs that are not shot right or the service was terrible.

No matter the cost, Is it right to treat a client like that? Never! What I AM saying is you really shouldn't be surprised. As Penelope said, You get what you pay for and you don't go shopping for watches on Temu expecting to get Rolex quality and service.