Banning things that large numbers of people want rarely ends well, and whether we like it or not, lots of people do want to play with AI WAM (and AI lots else besides). MM's approach of allowing it but labelled and filterable is the best way to handle it, though I get the point someone made upthread that if a new user (or lurker) comes along then they might get the impression UMD is primarily or entirely an AI forum just because when people do post AI it tends to be multiple dozens of images. Perhaps synthetic content should be filtered by default and users have to choose to enable it? And new users (where there's no existing cookies, so not been to the site before) should see a splash screen that provides direct access to the filtering so they can choose on arrival what they want to see?

I've played with AI WAM, and admired the work of others, esp the "TV Station" stuff that the Bootiful Dodger has been posting of late. But I don't see it competing with live human WAM, rather it's a much more advanced version of WAM stories. It lets you generate a fantasy in your mind in the same way a story does, the images are more "thought starters" than the finished product.

As to sales issues, yeah, the biggie on that is going to be the legally required age-gating now being rolled out across the world. The main long-term result of that is that every teenager in the world will become and expert on encrypted VPNs, which may be a good thing from a skilled population perspective but renders it all pointless, however it will probably have a detrimental effect on casual sales at least in the shorter term.

From my POV, I've not really seen that much of a change other than that sales seem to be spikier than a few years back, but it does fluctuate over time so I make a point of not panicing if there's a slow week - things usually pick up again after a bit, and sometimes there's a rush of sales which makes up for the low period.

And you can't uninvent a technology, AI image and video making is here and will only improve over time. So we need to learn to live with it, control it, have rules for it - like the "no generated images of real people without a model release" one. Because wishing it will disappear isn't going to work. When I started making WAM I did still photos because I thought of myself as primarily a photographer. I rapidly realised that the market was video or bust, looking back I wish I'd filmed some of the early scenes that only exist as photos. Though of course they'd be low-res by modern standards nowadays.

I quite like the AI stuff tbh. Not day to day, and I certainly wouldn't be buying anyone else's AI generated content. However, generating it yourself is far easier than arranging a custom.

If I'm ordering a custom I have to:
- Write a script
- Contact a producer
- Wait for a response
- Modify script (what you want vs what they're prepared to do)
- Negotiate a price
- Wait for them to film it
- Wait for them to edit/send it
- Hope they've not done anything wrong

This process, in my experience, takes at least 3 months. And that's fine, because you're dealing with real people with real lives. But the last two customs I ordered, the one got cancelled because we couldn't agree on the script. So I went to someone else, paid them, and they disappeared off the forum and never produced anything. So the idea of paying 20% of the price and producing it myself using AI is far less stressful.

I understand what people say about authenticity, but if I'm asking any of the top producers for a humiliation scene, then they're only acting anyway, so it's still not authentic. They're not really feeling humiliated, so to me it makes no difference.

The reason for requesting a custom is go get exactly what you want. But that process is so arduous that I can't imagine ever ordering a "real" custom again when I can create it myself without the stress that comes with custom ordering.

I appreciate the work that goes into real life wam. I continue to buy subscriptions and downloads through UMD and I have had customs done and worked with Lenny Sorge on filming several of his vids. We both worked in northern New Jersey and occasionally got together to shoot pool and talk. I miss him greatly.
Lenny treated the models well, and his whole crew did so. For the Florida shoots, he had a baker he used that would roll up in a large van loaded with hundreds of pies for multiple vids.
I like the AI and my profile photo is AI (I have a public facing job.) I enjoy the creativity that is possible without endangering the models. I agree with those that suggest that the filter (and labeling) are working for most of us.
I also agree that the new age restriction requirements on sites have limited my viewing of other sites. I have been a member of UMD for over 25 years, so I pass the age restriction, but I am reluctant to give my personal ID information to other sites. (I have had my ID stolen, so I am extra cautious now.) I feel like that restriction does have an impact on the market, plus piracy.

Excuse me, who did you buy the videos from? There are trusted producers who've been creating content here for years... Is it really possible to just write to a major producer, pay them money, and they'll just disappear? If you've found yourself in this situation, I'm so sorry...

Also, I don't know what you can do for three months? I create videos much faster: 1-2 weeks, but not three months.

Fuck AI.

Agreed. (Although it is the community that's creating it)

Maybe it's possible to have the AI filter in place by default for 'visitors'. Once the have a login, they would see AI content and also have the ability to apply the filter if they choose to.

I'm not a fan of AI generated content at all. I echo all the comments made about it looking fake and don't get me started on the daft stuff it does with not understanding the priciples of gravity and fluid dynamics. There is one element that hasn't been brought up here which I think is deeply worrying and that is consent. I have seen content being posted on social media of AI content of celebrities being gunged, pied etc. People are clearly doing this for personal sexual gratification but the celebrity hasn't consented. This to my mind is just as bad as creating deep fake porn. Models shooting for WAM sites have consented to get messy and know that is fetish based content they are creating. Creating content of a likeness of someone without their consent is just wrong on so many levels to me.

Anyone here seen "The Capture"? I know it's fictional but I think it gives us a healthy reminder of just how terrifying deepfakes and AI could be.

One application that I would like to see AI used for is an improvement in batch processing for photosets. I'm currently editing a 150 picture set and it's a bit tedious - especially in this heat! I do it manually as I can't trust batch processing as it is to get the results I want.

The one who took my money and run was Big_Tits_Gunge. He messaged me saying a model I'd asked about a while ago was coming back and did I still want a custom. I said yes, price was reasonable, he was approved on here, so I paid him. That was a year ago. He does occasionally message me saying he's gonna refund me, but never actually does. I wasn't the only one he did it to either. MM was made aware at the time.

My personal feeling is that AI's utility is in creating scenes that would be hard to replicate in real life. I use it to illustrate my stories, using specific character descriptions and scenarios.

That said, while only AI can easily do something like a slickly produced WAMmy adult gameshow with a large audience, every HME episode from @archnemesis is an instabuy for me. Nothing replaces the real thing.

Adobe Lightroom can be your friend. Been using it since version 1.4.

Not to pick on you specifically--this thread blew up since the last time I visited the forums and I always had questions for people who think this way:

1) What kind of content were you looking to a custom producer to make?
2) Have you tried to make it using AI?
3) If so, did you actually like the AI-generated results?

The reason I ask is because, like everyone else, I've been seeing the evolution of AI WAM whether I want to or not and I still find the outputs to be pure shit. The WAM physics is still inaccurate, the voiceovers are still soulless, and the "models" still look lifeless and mannequin-like. God bless everyone trying to DIY using AI--and if you genuinely love the results then good for you--but I find it hard to believe that anyone who developed their love of WAM watching real scenes can look at AI content right now and think, "Yes, this is good. This is exactly what I envisioned for a dream scene."

To OP's point, I don't think AI content needs to be banned when it's so much more effective to honestly and realistically point out how garbage AI WAM is whenever someone shares it or tries to argue for its usefulness. The world is tired of the cliches: "AI is here to stay," "AI is only going to get better," "It just needs X, Y, Z." Wake us up when it's actually good. Right now, you're just wasting everyone's time and insulting everyone's intelligence.

'A.I' stuff is fine. If you don't like it, then just don't watch it........., I'd post a pix, (real...), but this site won't let me......

So first, I neither hate nor love AI. It's a tool, or at least, that is what it is supposed to be. That was until clout chasers and people looking to turn an easy buck got access to it and now use it to try to pawn off their AI crap as original works for either money or engagement.

Ultimately, that is what it has become for the "creator" with no imagination, or faculties to hire a model and do the real work that goes behind creating a scene.

Do I think banning is the answer? No. If anything, I feel that would make things worse. Banning only encourages people and becomes a lightning rod for AI dick riders to point to in how "unaccepting" opponents are to it.

That said, so far the AI filter is working so as long as no one is crossing any red lines (images of real people, images of models without their permission etc), I don't see the immediate need to take action against it. I will say this, Messmaster has done more to filter out AI bullshit than either Meta or Youtube has and that is saying a lot about the level of propaganda this site is fighting to preserve its integrity.

Lightroom is great but I been really falling in love with Capture One

I think my view will be different to yours for a couple of reasons. 1, I'm diagnosed with Aspergers, and 2, I'm a software consultant in real life, so the AI bit interests me almost as much as the WAM bit.

So we might both, hypothetically, put a prompt into an NSFW AI engine that says "Create a video of a woman in her 30's with dark hair lying in a bubble bath. From above pour a large bucket of custard over her head," for example.

It produces a video 6 seconds long and stops mid pour. Most people would go this is shit, and stop there. But the geek in me can't do that, because I also like the technical challenge of working out how to refine the prompts and improve the output. So I screenshot the last frame and feed it in as the start image for the next video. Prompt something like "Stop pouring custard over her. Then make her wipe her face." It produces the next 6 seconds, but when she wipes her face it's a different woman, because it hasn't cached the start image. So now I start adding "Open her eyes and make her look at the camera" to the end of each prompt to try and keep the face consistent. So once you've mastered how to build the prompts, properly, you can create decent stuff. Or decent for me, I assume you'd still hate it either way, but both our viewpoints are valid.

It's a long way off being able to produce a 15 minute JOI mud video, for example, but for something short and sharp where you're not interested in the audio, then it scratches a different type of itch.

Well said!