Hi, all: I'm getting a WAM story together which features humiliation and punishment and I'd appreciate any assistance you can offer in helping me to better understand the dynamics.

For me, WAM has mostly been about texture and the joy of defying parental injunctions about not playing with food but I want to take this story to a different level.

I can understand, at least a bit, humiliation being a turn on. And certainly how it can be a punishment. And of course, there's the old saw about a masochist asking a sadist to "Hurt me" and the sadist replying, "No."

But the story bouncing around in my head has the wronged person inflicting WAM as punishment, the punished person getting turned on not only by the WAM but by the public humiliation.

Does that mean that there is no punishment at all? Does the wronged person have to do something else? Is it possible for the wronged person to get turned on by the fact that the humiliation is turning the punishee on? All of the above?

Or are there other dynamics that I'm totally missing?

Any enlightenment gratefully received. There are no stupid answers, only stupid questions.

Cheers!

Jason

I don't connect to wam at all this way.

I remember reading one of your story's and this came to mind
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s5qJTstUOwg


To me wam is a process

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3VZko8PY0A0&t=10s

I get the erotic sexual element that can bring in the bdsm for wam that's been done but to be it's also impersonal I don't know if I already predicted the outcome of what story is being shared.

Especially if one is using their own body.
https://vimeo.com/462591895
Punishment . Not so much
Combination of wetlook and wam

In reality I much prefer the person to be having sensual fun in WAM, although in stories the humiliation side can make for an entertaining read.

The humiliation aspect can definitely be a turn on, perhaps in a similar vein to the pain inflicted in BDSM but in a more mental capacity rather than physical.

I think linked to this is the relative surprise that the humiliating situation is a turn on, as if it came either unexpectedly or forceably (again both going further down the rabbit hole of what might secretly be desired).

So the only way perhaps for your story to make the punishment a real punishment is for the level of humiliation to climax at a much greater extreme. Just because the person is getting turned on, doesn't necessarily mean that the punishment isn't real - if the after effects are such that they live with a bit of regret afterwards. Perhaps the humiliation is extremely public and the viewers are those closely linked to the victim (important business clients perhaps). Perhaps it features full nudity and exhibitionism in front of said viewers. Perhaps the victims clothes are cut off or even their hair (although I personally don't enjoy "damage" to a person's physical appearance from which they cannot easily recover (i.e. take a shower)).

The fact that the victim gets turned on holds them in the position of punishment for longer because they secretly don't want it to stop, however the real humiliation of having to "explain yourself", of perhaps having the humiliation extend past the sexual climax (say, walking home naked), or having to explain why your hair is suddenly short(er); therein lies the real punishment.

My 2 cents..

In the context of a sexual storyline. The wronged person still feels in power by causing the arousal to the punished person. I think the acceptable and plausible punishment would be to leave the person there to deal with cleanup and returning home, maybe not able to clean herself properly.

In the context of a non sexual storyline where a rival would want vangance where the wronged person has no fetish intent, I would think the humiliation being even stronger. Imagine the classic cheerleader captain pushing her rival in the mud, and her rival being aroused. It would probably give her confirmation she's got the upper hand on the other. If we reverse the role the bullied pushing the bully cheerleader in the mud and the cheerleader being arouse would kinda make that bully cheerleader in power and very confident. The bullied would still have closure and want to move on. I think it depends if the wronged person is the hero or vilain in your story.

Again just my 2 cents, it's a story, imagination makes the rule book

I think there are two ways your story could go:

1. The perpetrator realises the victim is enjoying the punishment so decides to make it somehow crueller and nastier until they stop enjoying it.
2. The victim's response is a pleasant surprise to the perpetrator, who starts to "treat" them to more of it, finds a newfound respect and sexual attraction to the victim, and perhaps allows them some revenge.

Myself, I much prefer the second scenario. The idea of someone getting "punished" through WAM but enjoying it is a massive goer for me actually. As long as it's consentual, I love seeing someone being in control and another person accepting that they're on the receiving end, and better still if they're getting off on being the centre of attention and other people having fun at their expense. It's why I'm not big on things like self-pieing and all-out pie fights where everyone is just throwing all at once - the dynamics of it aren't quite there for me. I sometimes think I would be into BDSM but for the fact that I'm too wussy and mild-mannered to enjoy actual pain so it manifests itself in light-hearted ways like WAM and my other fetish, tickling.

Humiliation is my main draw. As Wam, for me, is simply another option for the Dom to use in a D/s BDSM type thing. I want her taking her rightful place above me as I serve as amusement for her.

I enjoy the fact that it is a little weird, and "society" doesn't "approve." Hence my thing for mummification bondage, feet, other humiliation too.

I always think of the "politician caught in humiliating BDSM scenario" and how , were I the politician, I would be like "uhh, yeah, it's exactly what it looks like, care to join us? Ashamed!? Far from it. "

The way I see it, you can totally get turned on by the humiliation, especially in the moment and still regret the humiliation you suffered afterward.

It might not hit them right away like you could tease that you are going to be public exposed after being messed. They might love the thought of it, but once it actually happens be embarrassed. At some point I think you come down and realize whats happening.

Also the person who dishes out the wam can totally feed on the how person getting covered is acting/feeling.

Humiliation is a very personal thing at times

what one person finds humiliating another finds fun or exciting

some people find humiliation arousing, some do not

some find being aroused by humiliation to be even more humiliating

--
it might not actually be the element of WAM/Splosh that the person finds arousing but the whole set up.
And even if they do enjoy that elemented - being noticeably aroused in a public setting can be quite embarrassing for some

Thank you so much for all your fantastic insights! I'm sure that the story (and its sequel) will be much the better for them.

cheers!

A little late to this party, didn't see this when first posted but thought I could drop some insights that may be of help here.


OK before getting on to humiliation itself let me just elaborate on rewards, punishments and funishments from a BDSM context as it should help clarify a few things elaborated on later.

So rewards should be straightforward something a person receives that they enjoy, often in response to doing something good.

Punishments

From a BDSM perspective punishments are meant to be things that a person absolutely does not get any enjoyment from but consents to for a particular reason.

So where I personally have used punishments would be in the area of behaviour modification to help partners achieve a specific goal. For instance say I had a partner that wanted to write a book but always kept procrastinating. As any serial procrastinators will attest to sometimes the best motivator to get them to stop procrastinating is a deadline with a negative consequence attached to it. So with something like this we'd discuss between us how to break the bigger goal of writing a book into smaller reasonable step goals for instance writing 100 words of the book or in outlines/plans every 2 or 3 days (specifics would depend on what we agreed was a reasonable target).

I then have a stack of cards with various rewards on and a stack of cards with various punishments that through negotiation I've established they would consent to but wouldn't find enjoyable (so they're genuine punishments). Every time they meet their step goal of writing a 100 words within the deadline they get to draw a random reward card and claim the prize/reward they drew and every time they fail to write the required number of words they have to draw a punishment card and then have the punishment they drew administered.

Now I personally don't enjoy administering punishments but I absolutely will 100% administer the agreed upon punishment as I know this is necessary for the motivation system to support them reaching their goals. If they don't believe you'll follow through or chicken out on giving punishments the "oh crap I have to write these words before the end of the day factor" is gone. I enjoy being able to support them achieving the goals they'd like to achieve. The purpose of punishments here, is not for them to happen but for them to be avoided. We should both want them to succeed. If they're consistently failing and receiving punishments then instead of continuing to mete them out it is worth revisiting whether the step goals being set are too ambitious or whether they are starting to enjoy the particular punishments on offer in either case I rethink is in order.

Now in other BDSM relationships punishments may be used for other reasons like to reinforce a particular rule that has been negotiated and agreed upon. Given the prevalence of masochism in BDSM genuine punishments can often be not particularly glamourous. For example a particularly effective punishment for a sub that has broken a particularly important rule would be to just say to them that you are disappointed by what they have done and have a timeout. Not the stuff that BDSM porn is made of but most subs, even many brats with big masochistic streaks still want to please and so will want to avoid such disappointment.

But to summarise a punishment is something unambiguously unpleasant that the receiver has consented to receiving for a particular purpose whether as in my first example to help motivate themselves out of procrastinating on a goal they wish to receive or because they appreciate the reinforcement of agreed upon relationship rules. A punishment that is not consented to is not BDSM it is abuse.

Funishments or Play Punishments

So in between rewards and punishments you have this big grey area of funishments or play punishments.

Before going too far into this area it is important to remember that people are often more complex that people assume. We are not guided by just a single motivation we have multiple differing motivations that can at times lead to us having conflicted motivations and emotions. Personal inner conflict.

We can enjoy the taste of that particular chocolate dessert but hate that we're going to feel fatter after eating it in the morning. We can enjoy belting out a particular pop song in the shower but be too embarrassed to admit to your friends that the song is a guilty pleasure of yours.

And this is largely the point behind funishments conflicted motivations of varying degrees. Here's a few examples of varying degrees of funishment:

1. Someone that loves receiving a spanking but wants to pretend it is a punishment rather than a reward as they enjoy feeling it is naughty.
2. Someone who part of them loves a particular thing (for the sake of this post let's say it is WAM) but another part of them is embarrassed that they enjoy it so wish to pretend they don't so would like someone else to do it to them. It can be part ego-defence part plausible deniability such that if someone they knew caught them doing it they say they were just doing it to please a partner or "had to because of the situation" for instance they were dared to do it. Situations like this often involve some form of roleplaying being "forced" to do something by someone else as a punishment even though part of them enjoys it.
3. Someone receiving something unpleasant but finds enjoyment from that unpleasantness. Masochism territory, the pain is still painful but they're also getting a high from the endorphins. The humiliation is still embarrassing to their ego but it just makes another part of them that much more turned on.

When it comes to BDSM most 'punishments' are typically funishments pretending to be punishments for play reasons. Genuine punishments that the receiver gets no enjoyment at all are relatively rare. Well behaved subs may want to behave in such a way to only receive rewards and masochists and brats motivated by wanting to receive 'punishments,' are typically looking for these funishments rather than punishments.

Erotic Humiliation

Now most people don't understand how erotic humiliation works. We live in a world dominated by Egos. Many people spend their time chasing image and status to work their way up a social hierarchy. When they see others being humiliated they immediately think of it through this lens of losing all that image and status that they have worked to build and so are often terrified by it and think anyone wanting to inflict that on someone as bad.

Yes there are people that enjoy humiliating others without their consent which as I mentioned before punishing people without their consent is abuse and unfortunately it is more prevalent than people give it credit for in society. Very often those that like to pose as super virtuous have a particular habit for liking to publicly shame others. Just think how often the people engaged in performative virtue signalling are also the same people that like to publicly shame others for not living up to a particular standard. In reality the so called 'virtuous person,' has not bothered to address their own shadow and instead they just let it go on a rampage on people they believe deserve it.

Other places besides social media that you can see other people's sadistic urges in public display are with things like TV shows that have things like the Bush Tucker trials where you can watch celebrities brought down a peg or two. At least unlike with the social media example the participants here have actually agreed to appear on the show knowing roughly what was involved.

Now what BDSM and erotic humiliation have that differs from the likes of the social media example is that here the humiliation is CONSENSUAL. The person receiving it has consented to receiving the humiliation has done so as part of them enjoys so aspect of it.

Why enjoy the humiliation? Well because in truth our Egos stand in opposition to our actual personal desires. Our inner desires may want one thing but our egos that have internalised societies rules often deny us from following those desires. And they make us ashamed of those desires. The reason many people here feel ashamed after jerking off to WAM content is because once they've satisfied their IDs desire for sexual gratification they are just left with their ego that has internalised messages that porn/sex/masturbation/unusual fetishes are wrong in some way that leaves them feeling ashamed.

Through repeated cycles of sexual gratification and shame a mental association between the emotions eventually forms so that shame, humiliation and embarrassment can then trigger sexual arousal.

Now what I personally enjoy about giving erotic humiliation to another person is first that I know a secret that most others watching don't know I know that the person I'm giving the humiliation to is secretly enjoying it. I also enjoy that I'm able to give them some form of pleasure they are rarely able to get from other people as most other people are too horrified to consider giving them such pleasure thinking doing so would be cruel I however believe it is more cruel to be part of a society that shames people into not enjoying completely legal kinks that they enjoy. Personally I like to see erotic humiliation as empowering the kinky side of us that society would like to shame away. For me it is almost a rebellion/defiance enjoying the very shame society attempted to use to prevent me enjoying a particular kink in the first place.

Now I'm quite comfortable being a social outcast if needs be I'm happy to play the role of "forcing" someone to do something humiliating they actually secretly enjoy to protect their social status so they can continue about their business and it remain our little secret. I've been able to satisfy my own shadow's desire for a little schadenfreude in a way that has brought great pleasure for another. Now two wrongs don't make a right but two deep dark secret desires explored consensually can make an awesome kinky exchange.

So having explained all of this let's return to some of your other questions:


Well erotic humiliation is typically a form of funishment, (most people that don't enjoy some aspect of it tend to have a knee jerk reaction to it to not have it as a pure punishment). As established funishments are sort of a combination of pleasant and unpleasant factors to various degrees.

And how you implement those funishments can very much vary how pleasant or unpleasant it is. For instance if you have someone that enjoys over the knee spankings you could just give them the spanking the way they enjoy it OR you could instead rest a magazine on their back and each time you take your hand of their buttocks you can leave them guessing as to whether you're about to turn a page or whether you're winding up for another spank.

Pleasure control techniques such as teasing, controlling the tempo, denial, anticipation and so forth can be used with any form of pleasure including a funishment to increase the anguish or fun. For instance "I'm going to pull the lever to gunge you but I won't tell you when but whilst you wait I'm going to describe how horrible and embarrassing it is going to be to build the anticipation before eventually surprising you when you least expect it," sort of thing.

But no whilst some parts of a humiliating punishment can be enjoyed, because it works on conflicted emotions other parts of it can also be unpleasant and still feel punishing.

Another aspect to consider around the erotic humiliation angle is that embarrassment and humiliation are socially derived emotions. And so the social context will also affect the degree of unpleasantness. For example many people here may find the idea of being gunged by a dominant woman to be very enjoyable. Now whilst they might not find it humiliating being gunged in private how would it change if instead thy were being gunged in a public show at the local BDSM dungeon? Or being streamed online? Or if it was broadcast live on TV with their work colleagues watching from the audience? Or if their close friends and family were in the audience watching too and it became obvious they were aroused by it? The gunging itself that was found pleasurable hasn't changed but humiliation has varied based on number of people and who specifically was watching it. They may get a small momentary kick out of the extra humiliation but like those experiencing post masturbatory shame after it would be temporary.

Because it is about conflicted motivations you've plenty of internal conflict and feelings to explore for the character with any of these.


Absolutely. If the person I was erotically humiliating wasn't in some way getting some pleasure out of it I wouldn't want to do it. I like the fact I'm secretly indulging a desire that they like that 99% of the rest of the world would deny and shame them for. They may see me making them do those humiliating things but it is our secret that they really love it deep down. Now when it comes to domination I'm very focused on pleasure control and so you could argue that I'm just a pleasure dominant that also likes to dabble in the dark side of pleasure but in a world where the pursuit of pleasure is frowned upon and often met with shame that is like the opposite side of the same emotional sadomasochistic coin as society is hellbent on trying to make you ashamed of pursuing your pleasures.

Now whilst I love administering erotic humiliation I absolutely would not want to do it to someone that gains no form of enjoyment from it whatsoever. When I can find an outlet for those urges with people that will enjoy receiving that part of me then I can make something good out of my dark urges. Why would I engage in something that only causes suffering and as I say if it isn't consented to it is abuse pure and simple.

And I wouldn't use erotic humiliation with a stranger (I wouldn't know their likes and dislikes) nor would I use it on an enemy (why waste time on them that and there is a certain degree of intimacy knowing someone to a level to know secrets they're usually too embarrassed to share with others) that it is the sort of playful punishment/forfeit/revenge I'd use with someone I already know well enough and that I'm willing to go all out bringing their embarrassing little fantasy to fruition.

There are of course others who approach erotic humiliation in different ways but I can only really speak for myself in this matter it's not an area many people talk freely on as many even those that enjoy it struggle to explain why they like it.

Now I don't know how much of this helps your story as sort of unclear off such a short blurb quite what you have in mind but hope some of this helps.

Wow, thanks ST!

I like that term... Funishments. Those are great

When writing about something you're less familiar with, I recommend researching the fuck out of it. There are many stories with WAM and humiliation/degradation in them out there as well as accounts from people who enjoy one or both of those things all over the internet. And also the porn...

Humiliation is also highly personal. I really enjoy it when it's in a kink context within limits, but what I define as 'humiliating' for me won't be the same as what someone else finds 'humilliating'.

I think having this punishment also be the gateway to the character receiving it having a revelation that the sensations/exposure/degradation/humiliation of getting wammed in public turns them on could be highly erotic as all the gears click into place, unintentionally switching it from an act of revenge meant to put them down to one that leads to something neither party expected.

It could be fun to play with the feelings, body language and internal dialogue of the person dishing it out too. Was it meant to be cathartic to get the anger out, but it turns into something they have less control of when it becomes clear the receiver really enjoys it? Also, there's a chance they enjoy messing up the victim in a way (re:sexual) that they didn't expect either. How will their dynamics change? I find that humiliation fits in really well with power-play dynamics too.

Best of luck!

I love wow. it gives me pleasure to wallow in any substance. I am submissive and my only condition is that my submission is through wam. I like to be humiliated and make fun of me. I get it through people who are not in the wam world and they find it horrible and disgusting, something that I really enjoy.
In my case I don't think it's punishment. Well, I enjoy a lot and it gives me pleasure to be mistreated, for example, in a well full of mud. but the one who humiliates me doesn't know that and he also enjoys thinking that I suffer. also if there is public we enjoy more.
My last humiliation was in a construction site where there were workers who laughed and jeered while I was walked on all fours on a leash wearing speedo and rolling in mud.

Selling WAM as a Funishment is how I have explained it to my kinky friends.