Hey guys,

I've noticed that there's a plethora of girls messing guys up content, and it got me thinking. I just wanted to put out the bat signal to see what kind of appetite there is for co Ed scenes with the girl getting slimed/pied while the male next to her stays completely clean? I've always been a fan of WAM injustice, so I think I personally would think it's awesome, but wanted to get your thoughts before I started producing anything like this.

If that's something you'd be into, feel free to share your ideas for types of messes/setups/concepts you would like to see!

There is a fairly large audience for this and NOT just people who post on the UMD.

By the way, I used to drive a Plethora. But it got rotten gas mileage.

Robby

Are you talking about scenes where the guy gets a girl messy? Because that's MOST WAM scenes. Certainly the majority of my catalog.... and if anything, I started editing myself OUT of the scenes as much as possible over the years.... since many WAM fans were vocal about how they did NOT want to see a guy popping up in the middle of their wank material.

But yeah, if you look closely, I'd say 90% of producer content is guy pieing or sliming girl. Particularly if you don't see the "thrower" on camera.... That's an easy tip-off. Everyone from me to PieZone to Messygirl to even your slime clips: The person off-camera is almost ALWAYS a dude. (If a girl is involved, she will 100% be ON camera, because that actually boosts sales rather than hurting them.)

But if you're talking about a guy being on screen with a girl, but staying clean, while the girl gets messy (from a different dude, I assume?)..... Well, that's uncharted territory. I've seen a couple customs like this, but it was pretty evident that the guy was "into" the mess, which kinda made the whole thing a little creepy. But that might just be me.

Robby, weren't you the one who told me specifically that you did a lot of research, and the main gripe from your poll was the presence of guys? I believe you used one of my Carrie clips and your audience said there was "too much" of the dude.... That even my voice ruined the scene for them! (Which, fair enough....)

Or are you talking about a male who's purposely in the scene but NOT administering the mess? Basically a "Great Race" scenario. Again, I've seen this rarely, if at all. And none of the WLP scenes did this either, right? (The "She Pies The Guy" clips were a different beast, and also more of the classic injustice that SlimedModels mentioned in his initial post.)

Yes, but I was speaking of GUYS appearing in woman's video where SHE gets pied, not where the GUY gets pied BY a woman.....as you mentioned which was the basis for the She Pies The Guy vids as you just mentioned.

And yes....the mere presence of even the voice of a man in a female getting messy videos is a general downer for most guys. That might not apply to your vids for a NUMBER of reasons. You have kickass gorgeous models which might override any objection. Then again, how many more would you sell if you DIDN'T show up in the vid? (Just messing with your head now because it's morning, I'm half awake and I"m being a dick).

It's one of the reasons I RARELY even stuck my arm in a video unless I was just too lazy to bake pie shells for throwing.

For WHATEVER reason, most (I'm sure not ALL) guys like what I call the "Soupy Sales" or even the "3 Stooges piefight" effect, where the pie flies in from off camera.

WHY that's what they like is above my psychological paygrade.

I wonder if there is some subtle difference in people's minds between "watching porn" and "watching fetish"? Hardcore hetro porn obviously has to have guys in it to have sex with the women, I gather most guys watching imagine that they are the guy in the video. But I wonder if it's different for fetish content, and the "I'm him" thing doesn't kick in so effectively, so the "other guy" becomes an issue?

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of a script with a professional male model standing next to the female model while she gets messed up, as opposed to one of us weirdos who love it. I saw Alanna (I think, might be different producer) do a skit with a prom date where the girl got destroyed while the guy stood next to her reacting candidly. I was super into it and it seemed like that scene struck a chord with the overall community. But hey, maybe concepts like this are underproduced for a reason--in that most people aren't super into it

Here's another interesting tidbit.

Rich has a great video where one of his models gets repeatedly messed up and the girl sitting at the table across from her does not.

So before a recent personal WAM encounter I showed a female WAM "companion" that video.

Her reaction was..."ok, that's hot........the other girl gets it at the VERY end...right?"

And no, she didn't. Rich splained to me why that didn't occur which was understandable but I found it interesting that my female friend liked the entire concept of one girl getting plastered while the other one didn't. I actually found it "fun" as well the first time I saw it. And yeah, right at the very end,. that video was just SCREAMING for the other girl to get just ONE pie in the face.

I bring this up because there are a few scenarios when done properly or even accidentally seem to have an attraction for both males and females.

It can make for a much funnier scene. The scripting of such a scene would logically emphasize the beauty of the woman getting more and more trashed while the man stays clean. That it's subverting the order of things.

That was an AMC right? Well, at least you could scrounge parts easily enough.

To be fair, there are a number of ladies that want to see MORE Rich. Probably a good amount of men too. If you were getting the mess.

LOL.... Thank you, Potatoman...

Not to make this thread entirely about my stuff, BUT I just appeared in the early videos because.... Well, I didn't know any better, and it was fun, and it didn't seem to be a negative on sales. Had I been armed with the research and numbers I have now.... Maybe I wouldn't do that?

Nonetheless, the horse had already "left the barn," so to speak, and so you get me showing up in a LOT of the SD-era videos. I'll also say that I did a couple of "inequality" type scenes.... One with Toshia, and another with one-and-done Jessica.... where the setup is that I very scientifically discuss the "inequality" behind a good slapstick scene, as the girl gets smashed with pie after pie. Then, at the end, she DOES get revenge on me, finally.

These did NOT sell well. So.... Take that for what it's worth.

These days, I've found that keeping myself out of the shot as much as possible is preferred. "Silent" videos aren't my wheelhouse, tho, so you still tend to hear my voice. And for the record, two of my best-selling recent scenes--the SS246 restaurant one, and the SS251 Jasmine vs. Bear clip--don't have my voice AT ALL. Again, take that for what it's worth.

I think a male model reacting to a female model getting destroyed COULD sell well.... but I doubt it would ever sell as well as the exact same scene, but with a hot female in his place. And since you're paying for the "clean" model either way, I'd go with the female unless the guy is willing to do it for cheap (or nothing).

Spuds,

Don't encourage him.

Rich, did you really throw pies at horses? That seems weird.

I remember when in between takes I would be discussing "stuff" with the models and one would say..."Oh, you should put that in the video, that's funny."

And I would say..."Yeah, uh huh, WAM videos are often purchased for their HUMOR."

And then the model would tell me to go do something biologically impossible and we would continue shooting.

I am the guy who started a thread about how I started liking women messing men later in life (i.e., I used to hate it but now I like it). But I also like men messing women and I LOVE inequality. But the responses above me seem right-- most people don't want to see the man in the video, if it is slapstick oriented, staying clean. A shame. I really like the idea, for instance of a hot woman scheming to pie a guy but the tables being turned on her and her being the unfortunate stooge. Unfortunately, not a lot of that content out there. (Is there any of it?)

Finally, while on the subject, I would support fun, slapstick style tit-fot-tat between a woman and man:i i.e., it doesn't devolve into sex. Again, though, not much of that out there.

Over the years there have been many programmes in TV where there has been a vote between a woman and a man to see who gets gunged / slimed. The hope and anticipation that the woman wins the vote and gets messy is there for me, even to this day. That scenario would work, in my opinion. Also there are scenes from TV where there is a rigged quiz (Tiswas in the UK) where the man gets easy questions and stays clean and the woman gets very hard questions and gets messy. That would work too I reckon. There is an extra element of humiliation for the receiver to be getting trashed while others stay clean, right up your alley. If some don't like it there are always the many other videos of just women in the videos for them to see so I don't see it as a big risk.

I'd definitely would like to see this kind of content for sure.

I've though of this before

Honestly in your shoes I'd film it at the end just because it would be a turnon for me.

You could run the angle of buying just the main scene that avoids the male's existence and then have a special "behind the scenes" or "deluxe" version that also includes interactions outside the scene with the guy and girl talking.

But I'm no seller and couldn't pay a girl comfortable with this, so what do I know, right?

Oh, I have COUNTLESS videos where the model gets me messy at the very end... going back to literally the first one. (SS01)

It wasn't even a turn on, it was more a little "bonus" for the model at the end of the shoot. Even now, there will be times when I'll just randomly gauge the temperature of the room at the end of a shoot and ask the model, "Do you want to get me back?" And if she eagerly responds, "Oh YEAH..." Then it happens. (Jill back in the day and the MILF more recently were both SUPER eager to get me messy at the end, pretty sure Jill got me at the end of every shoot we ever did.)

BUT those little bits didn't please the "girl gets guy messy" audience. And when I asked why, the common complaint was, "The girl should be dressed to the nines with hair & makeup. If she's already trashed, it doesn't work." So I started actually planning those bits and shooting them at the beginning, and THOSE have been released over the years as separate scenes.

From a personal standpoint, it's more fun when it's off-the-cuff. (Plus I don't have to stay messy for 45+ min after.) From a sales perspective, though, the clean girl messing the guy works better. (More of a domination thing?)

And tit-for-tat doesn't seem to sell well at all. The only back-and-forth coed stuff I've released that's ever done serious numbers were the SS189 scenes with Heather, because those were a LOT more sexually charged. (Not intentional, that was just her!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHIdSxs5_eQ&ab_channel=robseward

Underlying kinky themes in WAM

I think the best way to answer the question of how, where and if co-ed scenes with just the girl getting messy work best is to if I make reference to some of the underlying kinky themes of WAM I've made previous hints at.

When I say themes I don't mean by substances like wetlook, mud, pies, slime and food etc. If we were to compare sploshing/WAM with BDSM then the differing sensual experiences different substances bring with their look, tactile feel and smell in WAM would be akin to how BDSM practitioners look to achieve differing sensual experiences with toys that can deliver different types of pleasurable or painful sensual experiences.

No what I'm referring to is the underlying emotional experience and dynamics within which many of they are used which often dictates how they are used. In the same way that the implements of BDSM and sploshing can be abstracted into a common sensation play connection so to can certain BDSM dynamic archetypes be abstracted with common popular themes within sploshing and WAM. And when you think about it that idea isn't that absurd, why would certain emotional dynamics that turn people on in one area suddenly be completely different because instead of using solid objects such as ticklers and spanking paddles to deliver a sensual experience the states of matter of those objects have shifted to liquid substances to provide their own sensual experiences.

So let me take a moment to highlight 4 themes (note this is not an exhaustive list of themes within WAM as that's besides the point of this article, this is just to help support the overall hypothesis, so don't start complaining if you don't see anything that resonates with what you enjoy within WAM) that sort of crossover between BDSM and WAM.

For the sake of being accessible to any reader without prior BDSM knowledge I'm writing this part assuming no knowledge on the part of the reader so readers with existing detailed knowledge please forgive my very basic re-iterations of BDSM elements.


1. D/s and Bondage

The thing that will immediately spring to people's mind when talking about BDSM will be the likes of bondage and dominance and submission. Whilst in reality submissives retain control with limits and safewords. Within the likes of a bondage scene in particular many submissives are looking to explore feelings of helplessness and vulnerability whilst the dominant enjoys the control they have. Even playing within a submissive's limits a dominant has control over how much teasing, denial and the speed with which they progress through activities.

Some WAM scenes toy with this emotional interplay whether explicitly with a scene involving bondage within the messy scene whilst many popular WAM props subtly create the same effects. Whether sat precariously over a dunk tank or locked inside a gunge tank the occupant is in a helpless position as they await a wet or messy fate at the whim or abilities of another person.


2. Brats

Some submissives like to be playfully misbehave and be mischievous. These brats love to look for loopholes in command, play pranks on their dominant and challenge their dominant's authority. You know the sort of behaviour that wouldn't be out of place in a slapstick video in which the waitress responds to the rude self-important customer's request to "give me the a pie and custard," by slamming the pie in their face and dumping the custard on their head with a cheerful "there you go," and a giggle. Given that most brats don't expect to get away with their pranks without some punishment in return and the number that love to pull pranks that wind up covering their dominants in glitter I often find myself wondering if many brats might have the heart of a splosher but never came across the likes of Splosh magazine to beckon them home. Whether they are or not but their rebellious playful challenges to authority figures is reflected in many pie and food fight scenes within WAM.


3. Degrader/Degradee

Erotic humiliation is often misunderstood but to summarise the person being humiliated is allowing it to happen as secretly they either really enjoy and get off on the thing they're being made to do or on the feelings of humiliation itself, the social part of them though knows those desires are generally not approved of by society and so whilst being "forced" to do something they secretly enjoy has the double effect of creating the feelings of humiliation in their social cognitive part of their brain that they enjoy but also a degree of excuse for being able to indulge those desires in that they were "forced" to do it.

Anyone that says they like to see messy victims appear to be humiliated by their gunging but secretly enjoy it are doing exactly the same thing as all other erotic humiliation scene it is just that whatever the thing is that is humiliating the receiver differs based on what the receive secretly desires. For a messy humiliation fan that humiliation may be being absolutely trashed with mess so that they temporarily descend a few rungs in the image-focused society that we live in or it could be receiving a particularly gross and disgusting messing. For non-messy humiliation fans it could be anything from being exposed down at the local BDSM dungeon to being made to lick their mistress's toes.


4. Primal Play

Primal play is often characterised as throwing away the social masks and personas we often have to wear in our day to day lives and attempting to connect with others at a deeper, more instinctual and primal level. For many this can be quite animalistic and can involve competitive bouts to hunt and get the other to submit, for others it could be expressing silliness. Whilst the competitive primal bouts probably have a lot in come with mud wrestling the idea of casting away social rules and norms to connect with someone as you roll around and play in various messy substances probably also resonates for many in certain messy scenes.

Now as I say this isn't a complete list of underlying kinky themes that can be found in WAM, just enough to illustrate the thesis I'm presenting. When it comes to these themes you can think of them like genres in books/tv/films. Whilst you can combine some within the same scene each genre has particular rules you need to be conscious of when using them. For instance whilst something like Minority Report combines Sci-fi and Crime genres successfully, if you were to do a Sherlock Holmes film in which the climax has Luke Skywalker swoop down in an X-wing and work out the killer with jedi mindreading you'll piss off all the crime fans expecting a crime film AND you're not going to appeal to many sci-fi fans who'll have to sit through an hour and a half of crime film for a five minute sci-fi bit tacked on at the end as a half-arsed attempt to try cynically to appeal to them.


Co-ed WAM scenes with different underlying themes

So in terms of co-ed messy scenes. If for instance you produce loads of female pie fight scenes and you have a significant proportion of your audience are straight males who enjoy it because it resonates with that primal messy theme in that they love to see the usual social reservations melt away and the participants enjoying in the fun and that through their expressions of enjoyment are able to derive a feeling of connecting on an intimate level through the share enjoyment of a kink of theirs then the presence or appearance of another guy in the scene to share in that enjoyment in person becomes almost a primal threat to that connection and hence for anyone emotionally connecting with the material in that way the slightest hint of a rival becomes massively objectionable

But if for instance the genre/theme you play on most is say the messy humiliation angle then can co-ed scenes with only one messy side work. Sure absolutely. Let's say you had a site where you had scenes where people that knew each other (required for the chemistry) such as husband vs wife, boyfriend vs girlfriend, male friend vs female friend, brother vs sister competed for the right to gunge/make the other person messy then I reckon there would be a subscriber audience or you could sell them in bundles of clips in which you could guarantee there were some of each gender being gunged by the other person (one such bundle I've personally bought that comes to mind was a boyfriend vs girlfriend special from SplatHQ awhile back) would have male fans imagining they're receiving the messy humiliation when the guy loses and dishing it out when the girl loses and vice versa for female fans. Whilst the genre rules for Messy Humiliation theme don't preclude co-ed scenes but one of the rules for this particular genre is that the person delivering the mess must remain clean, it goes back to the social standing in an image focused society of one person looking pristine versus one being a total mess.


Is the market worth chasing for OP's website?

Now whilst there might be an audience for such content you have to also consider whether trying to chase that audience is good for your existing business model and customer following. I say this as whilst I'm intrigued by the idea, hell I've already admitted to having bought the BF vs GF video bundle from SplatHQ suddenly adding a few like it to your subscription service wouldn't personally get me to subscribe. I've nothing against you personally, I love gunge, pies and food and a couple of your videos like the gross pies I'd strongly consider dropping coin on if they ever appeared in your clip shop BUT I would subscribe. I personally side step any content that even remotely appears based on YCDTOTV. Why? Because one of themes I enjoy in WAM (not the only one) is the first theme I outlined of vulnerability and control. I like pre-gunging teasing and squirming in anticipation of the messing that is to come. Whilst I can enjoy other scenes that don't have this, YCDTOTV scenes don't just not have it but are the complete opposite. The slime is totally controlled by when the would be victim says the prescribed catchphrase (and therefore there can't be pre-messing squirming as the victim waits unsure of when it is to come) and then follows it up with the most fake and choreographed upwards-look to completely ruin a scene for me.

Now I totally get that you've gone that route to cater to all the WAM fans with that specific fetish trigger but having built that subscriber base on that particular formula deviating from it is likely to piss off your current subscribers and when it comes to people like me that aren't a fan of the YCDTOTV content the subscription fee is steep for the occasional video that isn't that. Subscription models can somewhat tie your hands having to keep existing subscribers happy. If you want to experiment more you could do a completely different clip store chuck up everything you want to try and see how well certain ideas sell but if the intent was to hope that you could drag in secondary audiences by doing the equivalent of shoving Luke Skywalker into the end of a Sherlock Holmes movie you might just wind up pissing off your own subscribers instead.

Sign me up! I would love scenes like this, or scenes where one woman stays clean while the other gets messy.