There's a conventional wisdom around here that "women just aren't into WAM", and every so often someone else will reply "There are more women into it than you think".

And there ARE more women into this than you think.

I recently had drinks with a sex-worker friend of mine. She's been working for years, and I recently raised the topic of my pie fetishes and pie-kink play and how it's the best it's ever been for me. We had the following conversation, which I did my best to document:

Her: "About once a month one of my [SW] best friends and I get together and play act and we always use shaving cream pies in our role play. Last time, we were both U.N. ambassadors negotiating the finer points of some negotiation, in the nude.Of course in the nude, because it's absurd that two stateswomen would negotiate in the nude, and the whole point of it is absurdity." Me: "So like Dada-Erotica?" Her: "Exactly! So we just talked jibberish, and hit each other with shaving cream pies in the face. Over and over until we're rolling with laughter and stupidly horny. Sex ensues. I love it, and have since I could remember."

Me: "So how does she like it, your bestie?" Her: "She loves it. I introduce her to it ages ago, and she fell in love with it. She practically begs for the pie" Me: "So more women are into this than conventional wisdom would say?" Her: "Oh yes. More women are into all sorts of things they won't or can't tell their husbands or lovers. I have about five or six clients, women, who are into pies or slime. Or both. Three are married."

Me: "Why shaving cream pies over real pies?" Her: "I prefer them, they're so ridiculous. And yes, they turn me the fuck on, actually any role-play-pie-play does, so I could use real pies and I'd still get as horny, but there is something about the shaving cream versions that tick the box for me. I am a trained performer, and I remember how frightened I was when I had to take a pie in the face in class, and then how exhilarated and insanely horny I felt when I got pied. So maybe some sense-memory happening there. And those were all shaving cream pies because that's what you use on stage. Always with a crust, I bake my crusts, and always [create the] pies as large as possible." Me: "And bestie?" Her: "She prefers banana cream or chocolate cream pies, but the cleanup is terrible and we also can never get enough for play. Also too much cream makes me feel ill, so only once in a while will I use a real pie on her."

Me: "And cakes?" Her: "Fake cakes. A hollow cylinder of packing foam, you know the soft stuff. Hollowed out and then we just make a stupid cake [out of shaving cream], if the absurd scene calls for a stupid large fake cake."

Me: "When you speak to other workers, do they have WAM clients?" Her: "Yes. Some of them are WAMers themselves ammong other kinks, and some have WAM clients. And many clients are women, usually some kind of managers or executives with money and power. Which is self-selecting, because our clients generally have means. But even as a sample of the population, it's a good sized sample. But also I want to say that having kinks can go hand in hand with sex work. Some workers are very vanilla, but most at least in my circle either have kinks or are very kink friendly. So that's adds a bias to the statistics for our little population."

Me: "When you raise the topic of pie in the face, what's the reaction you get from women, workers and civilians alike?" Her: "Always eager. You would be shocked how many people, women especially, want to get pied. Or slimed. Once you break down the walls and provide safety and intimacy, all sorts of fun stuff opens up with people."

Me: "And do they find it erotic? I've been told criticism that a woman may like getting pied but it's not erotic for them." Her: "That is stupid. Whoever said that is a moron. What they're telling you is that the situation or setting wasn't erotic, and they don't know how to create eroticism. An erotic situation is erotic. I know that's a tautology but come on, people, use your brains. When I set up an erotic situation, and I get pied or pie someone, it's fucking erotic and people fucking orgasm. What you are describing is a terrible but unfortunately common attitude and conception of sex that is held by many many people. I reject that thinking."