Where did I say "hey read every paper everywhere in the world"?

What I was saying was it took 6 months for this to come out and even then it took someone talking to someone who posted here. There is a world where this still happened and we don't know about it. MM cannot police the world, but its also defeatist to do nothing and be all out of ideas.

This sucks, and will always suck. it is the fallout from these kinds of consequences from both bad actors and from bad mistakes from otherwise good actors, and it's never fair nor is it fun.

I have been in this situation: E.g., where a CEO commits sexual assault, and we all of us suffer; employees, business partners, contractors, the lot. We pick up the pieces, as best we can.

We have to pull ourselves up, get busy and HUSTLE, and keep ourselves going. It it not easy, it is not fair, it is not nice, and it IS exhausting.

And, sometimes, it's freaking expensive.

But it's what we have to do. So, please, power-on, Wamgame. Do what you need to do, and persevere through this. Godspeed, Wamcat!!!

Is Lisa Moomin still producing? Managing models? Is there a way she can be part of the solution? Or has she retired in disgust/out of concern for her family?

I didn't realize she and Leon had separated, and I don't know whether she remains involved in the MostWam business or in the industry at large. Basically, I'm not clear whether this new ruling leaves her as an innocent or guilty party.

But it hurts my heart to imagine the UMD without her.

So what are your specific ideas to MM then?

Gutted. This whole situation is tragic for all parties. Sexual offenses are dispicable and violent all around (no matter how one justifies it). Violence is not just physical, it is the emotional as well. Never, should a victim feel scared to come forward. This site is for our pleasure and there is never a place acceptable for this.

Remember, there are no winners in this situation. The victims are scarred, the community is scarred, and the innocent family members, employees, and friends of Leon are too. I read in these threads that Leon and Lisa have a 9 year old son. How terrible it is that he will now have to live with the fact that his Dad committed such an offense. I hope, pray, and put it out into the universe that peace and reconciliation happens there.

To Messmaster, I don't post often but have been a member of this community for years. I don't envy your situation but respect your leadership in how you are handling it. We will need to heal as a community and it will take all of us to do that.

Sad all around.

This situation sucks. Feel sorry for the victim(s). That other thread was an awful read, some people need to give their head a wobble

Probably the producer I bought from most on here, angry they've been getting my money while all this was going on.

Thanks for the transparency MM, don't forget to take a breath once in a while

https://youtu.be/btmPhd1ADDY


I'm struggling with how to be present with everyone because this hits close to home in ways of a lot of trauma that got me into wam

I'd just like to say a couple small things here, as while I don't post often on UMD, I read a lot quietly.

For clarity, I admin a small but tight-knit WAM community based out of Discord. In that position, myself and my own staff have, from time to time, had to manage conflicts or issues between or involving members ranging from social disagreements to...far more controversial questions.

In that vein, there's two points I hope will be taken from this entire affair:

1. Reading your post, Messmaster, sounded much like many posts I've written myself, and very likely I would have written essentially the exact same post in your position. This especially holds in regards to finding that ever-so-tenuous balance between taking care of the community, not appearing to censor discussion, wanting to avoid a massive blowup, yet often *having to let some manner of blowup occur* in order to actually begin to make sense of the whole thing. Within that vein, understanding very well from those experiences just how draining it is (especially when you fear that your community and it's future rides on your decision, or the public *perception* of that decision), please, take some time to rest after this. Play some video games, have a drink (responsibly), read a book, touch the grass, whatever you need to recharge the batteries. There will be more to do, of course - this sort of event is always merely the start of transition, not the end of it - but, to do it effectively, don't disregard your own healing as well. As the people others look to for leadership, whether sound or flawed or somewhere in-between, we *have* to find that balance, because if we burn out, that's when we will fail our groups, and we'll take that blame on ourselves more intensely than most will ever really know.

2. With all of that said...to the previous point of beginning transitions...if there was ever going to be a clear and unmistakable signal that it was time to find a better method of managing the connections between UMD leadership and it's producers, *this is that signal*. For years, this has been the one thing thrown at UMD's feet that could not be escaped - for a *business platform*, it leaned far too much towards "everyone is friends here" when it came to producers having run of the platform. *I do not say this to say that every producer has done wrong, NOR to say that the answer is to head all the way in the opposite direction and go full draconian lockdown.* This is *not* a time to punish every producer because UMD was too lax; this is a time to re-evaluate the approach with clear eyes and clear information. A *measured* approach should be taken, not a knee-jerk one. UMD must be able to protect itself, as a cornerstone of the WAM community (because whether or not some like UMD being that representative, let's call a spade a spade and a central community a central community), and the first step of that now must be redefining the relationship between UMD and producers, because while trust is *necessary* to do business, it *cannot* override good business sense, and it very much appears that it, at best, clouded good business sense and potential early warning signs. UMD, beyond being a community itself, has chosen as a business to look after it's producers as customers, and to truly fulfill that and take care *of* those producers, and by extension the entire community, policy *must* be better defined in drawing the line between the professional and social aspects of this place.

What that will actually look like is up to you and your staff; we as the memberbase may be offered some input, or ideas can be drawn from us, but this new step for UMD leadership will in the end be down to the team you have formed determining the next step, for that team itself first, and then for UMD more broadly when that team is ready to step forward in whatever form it takes.

Thank you for your work thus far. We sincerely hope for the best in the future.

Earlier in the thread (or was it the other one?) Leon said that Lisa continues to work in the business.

I watched this entire train-wreck develop over the weekend, with a growing sense of horror and outrage. I didn't initially post anything as this was one of my weekends with Lady Jasmine and we were out and about doing stuff, and every time I reloaded the thread it seemed to get worse. I did send MM a link to the Independent Press Standards Organisation's PDF guidelines on court reporting, to clarify that the partial address details in the initial report are standard for UK journalism, and confirmation that The Bristol Post is a genuine regional newspaper.

I agree with MM's final decision, though with a heavy heart. A few points I'd like to make:

1. Moderation: I think it was wrong that the initial link was temporarily removed, if something is a matter of public record in a genuine newspaper then it can't really be challenged. I saw the initial post and flagged it to MM's attention, I didn't edit it, a different mod did. I'm not criticising them, they were doing what they thought was right, I suspect we need some mod guidelines on issues like that.

2. Being a competitor: This was raised at least once in the thread, that mods who are also producers have an interest in destroying MostWam. Personally, and as someone who has always considered MostWam my closest competitor, I for one am NOT celebrating their fall. I've always believed what helps one of us helps all of us, which is why I've been happy to work colaboratorally with others, and to big up, bump posts by, and positively review, posts and scenes by other producers, including MostWam. Some of you reading this may remember the big review / promo post I did for a MostWam scene earlier this year, the one I nominated for "Best Fully Clothed Scene" at Mestival. Just last week I deliberately bumped one of Candy's promo posts.

For most of the last six months I've had a lot of scenes in my UMD cart, two thirds of them from MostWam, been holding off checking out as I was spending heavily on shoots, and then most recently of course the disasterous Truss regime crashed the pound and wrecked our economy. Now those scenes are gone.

So while I think MM made the only decision he could once all the facts had come to light, I am sorry to see MostWam go.

3. Degrees of badness of assault: I think there is a tendency among many people, especially my fellow cis men, who've never experienced a sexual assault to tend to rank things in a kind of "order of horribleness", which tends to put violent rape by a gang of predators who leap on someone in the dark as "worse" than say something that happens at a student party, or than something like "just" groping. That's because we imagine ourselves in the situation and the violent attack seems "worse" because we couldn't fight it off and men are socialised to think in terms of fighting things off.

But in reality, what hurts the most and longest-term in those kinds of situations is the betrayal, not the physical. Letting your guard down with people you thought you could trust, only to then be horribly taken advantage of. That hurts way more deeply, and for far longer, than any physical injuries or trauma.

4. Speed of MM's response: It took three days. Now consider had this been a major corporate-run commercial platform - it would most likely have taken weeks to even get the initial complaint acknowleged. And while the ensuing thread was indeed a train-wreck of misoginy and hate, it also allowed those involved to well and truly hang themselves out to dry. And it also enabled those who care more about their wank-bank than women's safety and comfort to out themselves too. So I think MM did get the call right on that.

5. Superfans - just don't: Almost an aside, but one lesson I think is that if someone is a superfan of someone who's run into this kind of bother, the best thing they can do is just remain silent. Because no matter how nuanced any argument might seem to the superfan, if they've spent the last umpteen years boosting a producer's work at every possible opportunity, in a situation like this it really will come over as caring more about the flow of porn than the people in it.

Thinking a bit more about MrWam/Wamgame, I remember a discussion from last month about studio space:
https://umd.net/forums/wam-producers
Al's response has now been deleted (after his account went), but as I recall he said that it's a rented space.

So, suppose that the recent events hadn't happened, but their landlord (not involved in WAM) was a sex offender. I don't think that would be a basis for banning the store, just because the landlord is profiting (indirectly) from their sales. Is it any different when MostWAM is the landlord?

One other question here is the back catalogue (particularly unreleased scenes). I can certainly understand the producers wanting to recover their initial outlay. Would it be ok for them to go via a 3rd party? That would be similar to when Rev Slymsford bought up Messy Jessie's scenes, i.e. she was banned but her content is still allowed to be sold here.

NB I have no interest in male WAM: I've never watched any of their scenes, and I have no plans to watch any in the future. So, I have no ulterior motives here, I'm just trying to be fair.

Leon was the first producer I ever bought anything from and I've always enjoyed MostWam's stuff because clothed WAM can otherwise be quite hard to come by sometimes. It's hugely disappointing to hear about this and it's massively frustrating to read all of the vile misogynistic comments posted in the other thread, though I generally think the admins have gone about things quite well and that this is still one of the better adult communities I've been a part of. The bar for that might not be particularly high, and there are probably things that could've been handled better in this case, but it seems like the staff will learn from that, I hope.

Making sure people feel safe and comfortable here should be a top priority. This is a community for a niche fetish that's been variously described as hilarious, curious, rabid and gross. We need to ensure individuals feel accepted here regardless of who they are, lest we lose an outlet for a kink that can otherwise be quite hard to discuss/embrace out of fear or embarrassment. Sometimes that will require making some difficult decisions, like letting go of content that's made you feel good over the years or changing some of your personal values.

I'm not trying to "virtue signal" here, I'm just trying to give my two cents with a focus on a niche community and the people within it. Addressing some of the worst comments from the other thread, I don't care if your socio-political views differ from mine. Most people have different political opinions from me so I'm not even really going to touch upon them here, but I really do advise you to re-examine your thought process if your immediate reaction to a serious accusation in a community like this (where, unfortunately, multiple people have expressed their discomfort over the years due to the behaviours of certain people) is to go on a reactionary and frankly offensive tirade that ultimately benefits no one and harms many. Take claims seriously and be part of the change you want to see, which by your own admissions is a careful examination of the details and not a knee-jerk reaction that dismisses and marginalises people simply due to who they are. We essentially all want the same things, so think about the people around you first.

Sorry for getting all steamed up, let's hope we can move past this and have some fun. Sometimes I hate being a wammer but the parts where we make it into something joyful that can be shared are incredible. Thanks all.

I think more thought needs to be put into this kind of position. I get not wanting Leon to benefit from anything, but is that worth the expense of immediately shutting down one of our own that has almost nothing to do with him? Is there a way to assist in finding another studio to film at or something? Like, there are definitely worse people that your tax dollars are going to. Are you going to stop paying your taxes?

Would there be any producers here that have seen this whole thing unfold that would maybe be willing to give wamgame a new shooting space or help towards finding one? I'm not talking about today or this month or anything like that. Need to let the dust settle. Everyone is still reeling, perfectly understandable. I think they deserve that since they are at risk of losing everything through no fault of their own.

So why not go the easy route:
Leon, not MostWam which is a business that also likely funds his wife, is banned from the UMD.

At this point, he did something stupid to a model assuming what he said was true under oath but also pleading guilty is something that happens in the USA all the time when people aren't guilty but the government makes a deal that keeps you out of jail and you don't have to fight anything and you don't lose thousands in lawyer fees or risk other bad fallout. It's a realistic scenario b/c of how corrupt government institutions are. They know they have you over a cliff even if you're innocent.

That being said, he's not the first to do something stupid and he won't be last producer to do something stupid. Some of those are still around. So people obviously have varying degrees of morality. I personally don't buy from the bad one anymore. Do not PM me asking about it. you either know or don't know.

So the big question is:
Is Leon Mostwam or is Mostwam a company that employs Leon. If it's the latter, he can bow out and let someone else do all the shoots. It's a more complicated ethics question if however Leon is the owner and sole operator of Mostwam.

Personally, he had a moment of bad judgement (possibly, depending on if he really did it or not or just got told by an attorney to take a deal instead of risk losing his kid) and he's being punished by their law system for it and let he have a chance at redemption over time. Or you think people will never change and you try to shutter a business for one man's actions. That's the choice.

Thank you. Been a horrific 24 hours watching everything you've worked hard to build up over three years just crumble to nothing.

The third choice is not trying to shutter the business, but simply saying this site doesn't want to do business with him anymore. UMD is not trying to take down the Mostwam sites, just get it out of here.

I kiiind of think maybe also telling other producers they can't use his facilities is a bit much.

Update: Nothing can erase that when this hit, the UMDs response was to remove the links exposing the truth and kept a convicted sex offender who helps pay the bills around.

Plus, this thread with their response is stickied to the main forums most people see, the other ones are buried in the "off topic" one that gets 1/10th the traffic.

While we're at it, never mind they never took any action to another guy who still posts who several ladies came out and said he was masturbating during their shoots after he'd covered their eyes thoroughly with pies.

Don't worry though, this time they got people's backs. Doing things like forcing Rich at Slapsticstuff to grovel and beg to be allowed to post here, you know because he wasn't bringing in the revenue like Leon. Rich, who has no allegations of abuse against him, he's the guy who MM puts the thumb on, what a joke.

This information is publicly available through the companies registry database in the UK. Leon appears to operate his sites under a single business name (won't mention here, it's available online). He is the sole director and 100% shareholder after removing the other shareholders 40% share in 2021 and reverting all back to himself (again I won't mention the other shareholders name). As I said, this is public companies registry stuff anyone can read and also shows up in google searches, so nothing private.

This is what I'm struggling with too. I thought a 100% clean break with everything having to do with MostWam would be the only move that would tie up all the loose strings and bring us complete closure. But being hardline like that will have a devastating affect on some people who probably had nothing to do with this. Wamgame is saying Leon really nothing to do with his shoots. I'm still finding where the line should be drawn, but I'm asking the community for help and advice on this.

MrWAM/Wamgames said that Leon "kept half of anything earned in lieu of studio usage and supplying the gunge"

This, in my mind, makes them business partners.


I'll fix this for you: "At this point, he did something stupid CRIMINAL to a model.

The ONLY link I had to Leon is he owned the studio space I was using and that when the collab store was set up it had to be that funds went through the MostWam account. He never had any say in my shoots, never attended my shoots and never mingled with my models. My only contact at the studio was with Al. I do know several other umd users also paid to use the studio, as I had access to the joint diary. I have no intention of naming them on here though as I would hate for anyone else to experience what I have over the last day.

It would've been no different had I received the full funds and then paid to rent the space or purchase gunge from him. This really worries me for any other producers or indeed models out there who use facilities in good faith and then get lumped in with a sex offender when the criminal act comes to light. Exactly what kept me awake last night. Are you actually saying that any individual who conducts "business" with a company who at some stage reveal they have a sex offender among their staff should then be treated with the same contempt as those who knew about the offender?

I guess that depends on your aim. Is the issue with removing Leon's presence in your space, or his ability to earn money from it?

He's obviously got an impressive studio set up in Bristol. If new people and a new company were to lease it from Leon and use it to produce content, would you have a problem with them operating here while knowing that some of the money made by New Company was putting money in Leon's pocket by way of rent?

I'd like to see a comment from Lisa tbh, I notice reading through the threads she has been noticeably absent from this. which makes me wonder if she even has anything to do with mostwam anymore. or if she has left Leon due to the situation (under this I hope she did)

what bothers me and no one has touched on this was the excuse of sheilding his child. sheilding him from what, seeing his father for what he is and the stupid act he committed? thats a flat out cowardice copout if ive ever read one.

You dont plead guilty and face life ruining consenquences unless you are infact guilty. You go to court and fight tooth and nail with laywer who will pick apart her story and if shes lying she would be caught, instead you plead guilty and i wonder for a second if they found more and offered a plea to face this charge alone, the fact they were going to throw the book at you tells me they found more then one isolated case.

now makes me wonder how your other projects like eurowam which seems to be run by Lara now will be impacted.

@MM id show the affiliations mercy here assist them with getting their own stores set up seperate from mostwam and maybe other producers here can assist them with shooting locations, that would be my thought on this.

if they are innocent i think we should support them and help them back to their feet, which i think they would do if the situation arose.

What could be done here and this is just an idea.

Lisa takes over all functions of mostwam. including decisions on continuance of the buisness or it's closure. in that event, she could decide to sell the studio to the content producers here or come to some arrangement, but if it is indeed decided mostwam can stay it must be clear leon cannot be it's face going forward.

or she turns the whole operation over to another content producer and washes her hands of it, but in the end, Leon you created one hell of a mess here and I truly feel sympathy for your child and Lisa here as they have to endure the damage of actions you brought on yourself.

I think the main person responsible for this whole mess is Leon and now him and what he stood for ie the direct connection with his Studio has now on the whole been dealt with.
There is however someone here that dose genuinely seem innocent but has been caught up as a victim just down to the fact he rented the studio from Leon
I think if he is able to show no direct connection then maybe this guy deserves a break on this occasion
As a trusted model and producer I was offered use of Leon's studio a few years ago to do some of my own work but due to its location declined the offer, my point being that I'd I had used it for 5-6 shoots would my work connected with that studio have been removed too?

It's the best example I can give where association could lead to someone being punished for something they clearly had no part in and for that reason I believe Wamgames & MrWam could be given a reprieve but on the understanding any future shoots have absolutely nothing to do with Leon at all be it rented studios or rented equipment where Leon and co could still be funded

Well maybe it's unpopular but, the guy is going through a series of private and public humiliations as well as court ordered justice.
I don't see what good comes from banning him.
Its messmasters site so what he says goes.

Sorry but that is factually incorrect. "UMD" did not remove the links, that was an individual moderator who believed they were acting in the interests of preventing the risk of vigilante attacks on Leon's family. While the house number was not listed his real name and the street was. I was watching the thread at the time, I saw what happened in real time and flagged it to MM. He was surprised at the address detail being given (I gather that is not the norm in US court reporting) so I sent him a link to the Independent Press Standards Organisation's PDF document on court reporting, which is the main guideline for journalists here.

Once MM had seen that and given the matter some consideration he restored both the link and screen-shot to the original post for everyone to see.


MM has been trying for literally years to get people to use the correct forum for things. There is a lingering concept that somehow Messy is "the main forum" but that is false. The sticky thread, given it's announcing something very major, is cross-posted to all forums, but the original of it is in Non-WAM.


Physical violence, most likely. Bear in mind it's not that long ago that a female doctor was hounded out of her own home (in South Wales I think, so not that far from Bristol) by a violent, and terminally thick, mob who couldn't tell the difference between "Peadatrician" and "Peadophile". Yes, really, it made the national news. So it's not that far fetched to imagine that someone might try and take the law into their own hands regarding what happened.


??? Eurowam is entirely unconnected with any of the MostWam ventures as far as I know, and is based in Eastern Europe? I don't see them being impacted at all by anything happening here in the UK.

If you're on about Leon, I would go back (if its still there) and re-read. His story changed a lot, and he basically admitted to it; plus others at MostWam knew, and kept it from UMD.

Don't know what was going through his mind at the time, I guess we will never know, but Leon as I say basically eventually admitted here that he did commit said crime.

EDIT: Think he said it is was a 'mistake.' Only he knows if it truly was, and no doubt to him surely must be, but it doesn't cancel out the fact that it happened, he was convicted, and someone was taken advantage of.