Something that's been on my mind recently.

I was looking at the trending vids/browsing forums here and came across a video of a pie in the face from a Youtube video. Cute girl, good hit, great sport about it, all that jazz. Then I saw the title/description.

'Youth Leader gets pie in the face.'

Here's the thing - maybe its just because WAM is very much a fetish for me, but whenever I see someone post here something where the recipient obviously doesnt know this is a fetish, or is just wanting to do some wholesome fun, and it ends up here, I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me.

Charity mess, church/youth leaders, youtubers, am I the only one who sees posting/sharing that stuff here... kinda gross? I'm sure some young adult who's just looking to have fun and do something for the kids in her church youth group would really appreciate knowing their efforts have ended up on a fetish website. I don't know, the idea of someone ending up on a fetish website without their knowledge or consent, especially if what they're doing isn't inherently sexual (which obviously for most people charity mess etc. isn't) just doesn't sit well with me. Especially when someone puts up a poll or says something to the effect of 'if we hit this many likes/donations/whatever I'll get messy' and it gets sent here for people to respond to.

Am I being too uptight? Does anyone feel the same? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Would like to hear other people's opinions.
Feel free to move/delete if this goes against anything.

I'm with you 100% . If it's not made for this place, it doesn't sit right with me

I feel the same way. I don't find it gross, but it's definitely not a turn-on. I prefer WAM content that is specifically aimed at a fetish audience.

I'll take the opposing stance. As long as it's legal... it's ok. Moral policing is unnecessary. Besides a while ago MM instituted a soft-ban for all candid WAM, which is why we don't really have such videos on UMD anymore. So why are people still complaining?

There's fetish for everything... long hair, wet hair, jeans, skirts, office wear, nails, BBW, wristwatches, socks, white chairs, etc... should people just stop posting videos on youtube at all because ANY material can be sexualized?

I actually like candid WAM because the people are having fun. Most of the shoot-for-fetish material has been "pornographified". An increasing amount over the decades has incorporated more and more porn... I don't care for close up shots to pussy, dicks, or models doing fake masturbation or their sex toys, that does totally nothing for me, and I have zero interest in those. I'm more of a face, mess, and reaction person. And when people are having fun, that to me is a turn on.

Also, it's very hard to recreate the fun/crowd atmosphere with a porn shoot.

That's why the pie gameshows vids from walking the plank are among my favorite, I have almost all his videos. All his girls are fully clothed and the scenes are totally non-sexual (for the outsider viewing in).

Candid WAM is excellent and the best IMO, the problem was a small element of people who were then contacting the person being gunged/pied etc and either asking inappropriate questions or leaving comments on their video (and they can track back and see where link came from)

So a case of the few spoiling it for the many

ASSUMING you are talking about pictures & videos of people who CONSENTED to have ther images posted onto the internet: People have the moral right to feel ANY way they want about ANYone they see on the internet, regardless of whether they, the subjects, "know" it or not.
It has to be ASSUMED that when you post something publicly
(and NOT post images of somebody nonconsensually) that anyone has the right to feel
what they want.

What is this political correctness dictating what people are allowed to feel or think about what they see? Just because *I* feel uncomfortable watching "youth gets pied"
doesn't mean policing somebody else feeling how they want.

There should be no special rule for dictating "somebody may be feeling sexual about this event", because then I'll step in with "somebody (myself) may hate this event" and therefore I want the posting of images of this event or person banned. Of course, if its an event I hate, I want the physical event itself banned, not images of it.

I think there are lots of different levels to this, and different people will have their own takes on it, there probably isn't any one universal moral position other than the no kids one.

So-called Candid WAM comes in a huge variety of levels all the way from big mainstream TV shows where everyone on camera is aware they're being watched by millions, to sneakily taken long-lens footage of people who have no idea they are being filmed, much less wanked over.

My own moral compass position is the TV shows and their modern equivalent, YouTube videos, are fine as long as no kids are involved (including in background or material made for kids - much like MM's rules here). As long as the people getting wet or gunged a) know they are being filmed and consented, b) knew and consented to the footage being broadcast or uploaded for public viewing, then it's probably fair game.

Anything involving subterfuge, or non-consent to filming, to me is a total no-no. Years back someone appeared on the Splosh forum with plans to set up fake charity events as a way to get women to agree to get messy. He was, quite rightly in my opinon, rapidly shut down by just about everyone else.

I suppose the basic question to ask is "how would I feel if someone did this to me, my partner(s), our kids, or people I care about?" It it would make you uncomfortable, then you shouldn't do it to anyone else.

For me it really depends on the nature of the content. I mainly prefer either fictional characters getting messy, or wam models/people doing it for the sake of wam. It gets a bit iffy for me personally when it leaves that field.

For me the only real exception is when it's something like a gameshow, a playful and messy forfeit when all parties present are consenting adults, or when it's something like youtubers who are also consenting adults. And even then, those videos don't really do anything for me in the fetish department, I myself don't watch those videos for the sake of my own fetish, it's more so that I think they're okay content to be here, because as someone above said, they've consented to having this content of themselves being put online.

Apart from that though, I think the rest is inappropriate to be posted here. Especially things like any adults getting messy by children or for the sake of entertaining children, like a youth pastor for example. If it's fictional, to me it's different, like for example, the scene in Addams Family Values where it's children who are punishing the adults by throwing pies at them; but that's because it's fictional. When it's a real situation, it's just a whole lot iffier in my opinion. But I know even something like that is iffy for some people and it's a fair thing to think.

This is a great conversation.

Messmaster

I really think we are overthinking this and going down a slippery slope. Providing the obvious or already established rules (like .....underage), but if the subject is cognizant that the content is posted on the internet.....then its usable. Because now the moderator has the extra task of trying to determine "intent" which would be an arduous task. But more so, where is that line drawn? To only post "wam fetish" ..INTENDED footage would whittle away potential content dramatically. To me, personally, i love the wam from entertainment such as TV and movies. Those were definitely not intended to be "wam fetish" material , but obviously nothing nefarious to post those, but if we continue down this path....that type of content could be "content in question".

Sorry if i said too much. I wanted to keep it simple. Ultimately, as of now, the system in place isn't broken....so need to try and fix it!

I like the candid wam videos as well, but not when someone in our community comments, etc. On one occasion, I found a candid pie video of someone I knew from my town in someone's playlist and then it became real and I wasn't comfortable with it at all.

It's a bit on the strange side, especially when you get into younger people doing charity events but how far do we go with this?

I'm sure every celebrity scene, despite the howls and demands that it's 100% proof of them all being WAMMERs... that removed for a minute, in the real world none of them are aware or would likely consent to people wanking off to it for fetish reasons.

Should we stop talking about those TV/movie moments as well? How about all those Brazilian game shows with instamodel types playing all the pie games?

Where is the line drawn on this one?

For me, this hits the nail on the head! 100% agree.

I have no problem looking at pics/videos of legal-aged young women getting messy for whatever reason. The problem happens when these people are inappropriately contacted by wammers, or their videos re-posted in a messy compilation video, or that sort of thing. If their intention was innocent fun, and our purpose is to get off on it, that's our business. But if we creep them out by contacting them with sexual questions, etc. we've crossed the line. Let's enjoy their efforts in our own way, but respect the reason why they photographed or videoed themselves.

To put my thoughts in a different and hopefully better explaining way than my comment above: when it comes to non-fiction candid wam, I think as long as they're a consenting adult, and the mess doesn't have anything to do with children, and they are fully aware that their content is going on the internet and/or many people watching (like television), to me that's fine. I could just see something like youth pastor being iffy (and I speak as someone who used to be in youth groups as a kid) because you know it's very likely that there are children in some aspect involved with the mess, which can leave a bad feeling for some people. I can see how charity gungings have the potential to give people a similar bad feeling for the same reason.

While I don't personally favor co-opting "innocent" content for sexual gratification, the fact is that absolutely *anything* we post online -- photos, videos, audio, writing, whatever -- has the potential to be someone's masturbation fodder. You never know. People are always odder than your imagination's limits.

Honestly, it makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps I can provide a little bit of a different perspective as a woman here. It's really fucking weird to go through life feeling like anything you do might be sexualised or reappropriated for someone else's sexual gratification. I've got a reasonable knowledge of fetishes, so I know that it's always a risk that if I, say, post a picture of myself wearing a pair of jeans on a vanilla social network, that it might be taken by some jeans fetishists and posted on their networks and whatever. But I shouldn't have to consent to being wanked over just by posting a non-sexual picture of myself. In the same way, just because it's on the internet, it doesn't mean that the people in whatever it is that you're looking at want to be seen in a sexualised way.

Back before I started buying porn, I always felt incredibly weirded out when I was watching clip selections and clips were clearly taken from non-fetish sources. And yes, the game show clips on here make me feel uneasy. I can just about give a pass to fictional media, since the fetish is not being projected onto a real person, but a character.

The people in these clips have not consented to being part of this fetish, and chances are that they wouldn't consent knowing that that's what the clip was being used for, even if it's not its intended purpose. If you watch from a distance, get yourself off and leave it at that, I can accept it, even if it makes me uncomfortable; ultimately, it doesn't directly hurt anyone. If you start sharing the videos, uploading them in porn compilations or on porn websites, leaving sexual comments, messaging the person in the videos - that's such a huge overstepping of boundaries and consent. And the more these videos get shared, the more likely it is to put the person in the video in a situation where that might happen.

I understand what it's like to have a fetish that's commonly misunderstood and that you might find alienating or strange. But the way to encourage that understanding with others and find people to engage in with is to do so on their terms, not yours. This community is not especially welcoming to women at the best of times, and the posting and sharing of people who would never have wanted to be shared in this way can be really alienating. Feeling sexualised outside of your control is not a good feeling, and this is just another way it happens.

It's interesting reading.

I think my take on this is:

If an adult consents to the video being made and posted online then they probably also have to accept that in the weird world of people that someone might find it interesting to their niche fetish.

However....

If this video was not posted for the purpose of interesting people with a messy fetish then it should not be posted here. If people are interested in candid videos then go and watch them where they were originally posted and don't share them here at all. This is especially true for things like charity events that have no business being on a sexual fetish site. I can't imagine how some girl would feel if she actually knew a video she did for completely innocent reasons was being shared around on a fetish site so people can masturbate to it.

Yeah tbh I don't see much of a debate here

Sexualising someone against their will isn't great. It can have serious implications for that person. I made youtube videos a few years back and someone I knew from that had super long hair. She got a few creepy comments and then found through the analytics that a proportion of her views were coming from hair fetish sites. This was someone using the platform to talk to friends or express creativity. In no way was she courting this sort of attention.

Point Is I saw how this affected her. From being creeped out, to eventually deleting stuff because of the unwanted attention.

I also saw the anger and violation another friend felt when she was photographed in a swimsuit on a mass public swim. Some other people were skinny dipping and it was at dawn hence why the photographers were there- to get content for their papers. But no one asked permission or got consent. This is a liberated person but even then it had an impact.


Just because you didn't share it doesn't mean there is someone out there wondering why this video of a messy challenge made for their friends is drawing thousands of views. Or seeing links to forums and comments.Or losing control of the post and having it online forever.

Sure these are the risks of uploading but should they be? And does that person even know?


*Edit* another point that just crossed my mind is whether any of the non nude or more artistic wam producers fully explain the kink to their models or not

"How would you feel if somebody did that to you"

Universal question that applies to all sides. That's why I'm vegan & so should all of you be:
How would you like to have the mind of an animal being stuck in a tiny cage your whole life, if female forcibly inseminated, then seeing all your fellow prisoners killed before you, before you are brutally killed? How would you like a law restricting whom you may eat?

How would you like somebody thinking sexual thoughts about a pic or video you posted?
How would you like somebody thinking insulting negative thoughts about a video you posted & that person using clips of that video in a negative way to mock?
How would you like a law restricting you reposting videos or photos on one's own website that the original poster freely uploaded themselves to the internet?

Just saying "it's wrong to do/say/think/feel X" doesn't give mean anything practically.
You have to give a falsifiable testable quantifiable action: what do you plan to do about it?

Believe me: I HATE anyone who mocks & insults political activists who lose an election, especially when they are fighting against real oppression, injustice
(Peta, Occupy Wall Street, probably Antifa though I don't know enough about their platform,
Birthstrike)

But, I always start by attacking/banning the action (e.g. people breeding animals) NOT the images of them doing it (in fact, showing the truth of what happens is always a good thing).

We do. We inform all prospective new models that what we shoot is fetish material and the buyers are mainly people who find the sight of a fully clothed woman being gunged arousing, and that they should only participate if they are comfortable with that. Informed consent is everything.

I think there's a big difference between somebody posting a video of themselves doing something random on YouTube and somebody else posting the same video on a fetish website for people to, most likely, masturbate too.

I'd be worried if anybody thought differently tbh.

I understand what you're saying. I'm pretty sure about 99% of those videos are just posted for fun and not intended for any kind of fetishism, and those who post them don't intend for them to be used in any kind of fetishistic way.
Saying that, nearly all the messy videos I've seen here are intended for wammers to enjoy. I'm sure there are a couple of innocent messy videos that have slipped on here but they are few and far between.

Of course there's a difference, I don't think that's the point. If there's one thing having a fetish has taught me, it's that ANYTHING can be a fetish, and therefore there is a risk of having ANY video you post publicly be treated as erotic material. It would be naive (or ignorant) to think otherwise tbh. This will most definitely impact my own habits as well as the habits of my loved ones (no fucking chance I'm letting my kids post dare/request vids online).

Far more disturbing to me are the actual examples of exploitative (and in some cases pedophilic) pornographic WAM material that is posted on youtube as if it's fun and casual cause some pederass sent $50 to Central/South America or Thailand. THAT stuff sickens me. While I'm sure there are some weirdos lurking, I try to remain optimistic that people here, at this point, can recognize the difference between candid and produced WAM and not be a fucking creep sending messages to people that produce candid WAM (though it obviously doesn't stop them from sending messages to people/families that do dare/request vids).

I guess it's just hard for me to chide someone for re-posting something here that was posted by consenting adults that we (as adults) can use for any legal purpose we like, even if it's not the purpose the poster originally intended. When you make something freely available to the public, it's on you to know that it may be used for purposes beyond what you intended, that just seems like common sense to me. I certainly don't wish that anyone be harassed by creeps, but I also don't like policy being driven by what the creepy 2% will do rather than the normal(ish) 98% will do.

Obviously. If you want to get off to innocuous videos you find on YouTube or Instagram (of ADULTS) that's your prerogative. No one's gonna stop you. A lot of us probably do the same thing. But I think the issue is then reposting it on a site like this, and/or including it in some sort of fetish compilation video.

I've been guilty of posting links or screen grabs here from TV shows where someone gets messy. But as others have pointed out, I think there's a difference between a fictional character or game show contestant getting messy & a teacher getting messy at a school charity function, for example. That kind of stuff shouldn't exist on a fetish website.

And yes, I too have seen wammers leave comments on those sorts of videos on Instagram. Even though the comment may seem innocent, it's disturbing as hell.

I say watch your candid videos if you must, but don't repost them here (especially if it's related to a school or church youth group event), and for God's sake don't leave creepy comments on their videos.

Whatever or wherever the ethical line is in this matter, you can be sure of one thing: the Internet will find a way to blur that line.

Few here (including most of the females) would deny that they are flattered (they enjoy it) when some random person finds their photo/video image "sexy"...but then, suddenly, how is it that a new line appears when it is suggested that some of those people who find you sexy REALLY find you sexy -- enough to masturbate to you...suddenly, this is unacceptable?

Most every Hollywood actor (female or male) that is deemed 'most beautiful' or 'sexiest man alive' (or a 'sex symbol' like Marilyn) knows that this means people want to have sex with them; they accept it as part of their fame (and that they have chosen a medium that exploits physical appearance over everything else). Arguably, the film industry (not even counting the porn film industry, though porn has co-evolved with 'legit' film since its start) is single-handedly responsible for the explosion of sexual and thus also fetishistic imagery that has now culminated in the Wild West of video imagery that is the Internet.

When we pay to see a film, we pay to subject our brains to images and audio that will potentially pervert it (whether we understand this when it is happening, or not).

The genie does not go back inside the bottle, it just grows more powerful, and diverse.

I wonder how much of this 'dissonance' (between wanting to be viewed as sexy, but feeling disgusted if masturbated to) is a fall-out of our sexually suppressed (thus, schizoid) society/culture...?

We have become a nation of voyeurs and exhibitionists (and have incentivized/capitalized this behavior)...We have teens consenting to being filmed while having sex (even when not high on drugs or drunk)...knowing that the video will likely end up on the Internet somewhere...then we watch artfully-produced, HBO cable TV series about this very same behavior/happening.

We glorify vapid, vain-glorious, self-aggrandizing people like KK (and the other Ks and Js) who posts photos of their butts every other day, it seems...and we reward them by buying their products and watching their video content.

...and we can bet that tomorrow, or the day after, some new Internet trend or behavior will blur the lines of what is respectful and decent and ethical, yet again.

Oh, never mind.

I grew up in times where there was NO choice other than non-WAM media and activities gratifying my fetish.
Once upon a time there was no internet and it was very hard to discover any WAM producers that might have existed.
As for talking to girls to oblige my desires, fuck that, hell, I didn't even know WTF my desires were, all I knew was girls in my school getting soaked in the rain in their uniforms was really sexy, there was no WAM or Splosh labels back then.
I thought fetish only applied to S&M and Bondage.

So when I see an attractive woman getting wet or messy, it pushes my button, particularly if they're dressed in a way they never intended to get wet or messy, I can't help it, it's not like you can just switch desire on or off.
As such, I like candid WAM media.

As a man I'm going to see a sexy woman, as a sexy woman, wether she likes it or not, wether I like it or not, it's biology/chemistry.
Women always have been and always will be sexualised for that reason.
However, can you see and treat an attractive/sexy woman as a human being?
That's the important part.

As I see it, if you are a consenting adult and you have willingly and knowingly been filmed in the knowledge that the media is to be publicly distributed either on-line or offline, you have to be aware that some people won't perceive it in the way you intended.

I can't feel guilty about my desires, I did that for years already.

It's difficult, and I can see both sides of the argument. That said, I have certainly lost count of the amount of people who got into WAM in the first place because it was on Noel's House Party or some other TV programme of that nature. And I'm pretty certain most who found WAM through that route didn't just sit there and think "that looks fun." There was, I'm guessing, more to it than that once people got into their teenaged years. I also have spoken to some people on here who don't really view it as a sexual thing, and just do it for a laugh or to let their hair down.

And it's difficult to ask what is inherently sexual about something like the Quizbob shows, for example. The lads involved are generally well covered up (shirtless at most), and there's no hint that they turned on by the experience (although they may be). And there's little if any innuendo in the commentary. So, bearing that in mind, they could be enjoyed in many respects in the same way that the various gunge TV shows are. The gents involved are embarrassed etc in theory, but it's not a sexual thing. And yet we don't have the same complaints about those shows being sold on here. True, they know where these are going to be posted and who they will be bought by, but I'm not sure that makes a lot of difference. We are still getting turned on by people who are not being turned on.

And surely that's true for all kinds of fetishes. Is it wrong to get turned on by watching a video of a game of strip poker or truth or dare, for example. And by that I mean the genuine amateur videos. They're just people having a laugh, just as the people are at summer camp mentioned in the opening post. It's often not a sexual thing. Likewise, many get turned on by watching guys wrestling, or by speedos - and the people wrestling and swimming on our TVs aren't there so we can get aroused. But many do.

The only time I feel a bit uncomfortable is when someone with a fetish persuades someone without a fetish to get wet or messed up without telling them it's a fetish for them beforehand. That seems morally wrong to me. But I don't see anything wrong with being turned on by people doing things voluntarily - any more than it's wrong for the celeb sites to have hundreds of pics of shirtless actors etc from all kinds of films and TV shows which were not made to titillate.

Been great to see all the responses here. Here's the conclusion I can come to.

If you're into candid wam, that's fine. It doesn't do it for me, but I can accept when you put something on the Internet you can't control how other people will view it. Most actors/actresses/even just people that agree to go on television probably acccept that too. I do feel however there are probably a lot of people who have created candid wam stuff (especially on the school/church front) would not have done so (or at least, not allowed it to go online) if they knew that some people were whacking off to it. So I think the conclusion that fictional movies, game shows not targetted at children and the like are reasonably fair game, but stuff aimed at a young audience, especially school/church stuff, doesn't belong on UMD or any other fetish/porn site, channel or compliation is a sound one.

What I can't (and thankfully most people) can't really get behind is when people comment on, voice, or otherwise give input on a video from a sexual standpoint on a video that was not intended to be sexual. I strongly believe, and I would hope most other people would too, that someone with a WAM fetish asking youtubers, especially younger ones, to do messy dares, telling people to get gunged for charity, and especially using candid/non-sexual clips in WAM compliations/channels is a serious no-go.

In regards to the video that sparked this conversation, I went back to have another look - the forum that posted the link to the vid has been deleted, so good on MM for that.

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I am glad that the rules regarding what kind of stuff gets posted here has becomes stricter and less blurred, and I'm glad most people think that even if you just want to privately enjoy candid wam from a fetish standpoint, actually engaging with the people doing it for a non-sexual purpose is kind of not okay. Hopefully a middle ground that is sensible and sound can be reached.

No, but should people then be taking the material and putting that material, copying it, and then regurgitating it on a sexual fetish site or a sex hub network? There are a LOT of naive people out there. People who posted things on youtube of family events, or social gatherings.

These people in a lot of these YouTube videos are not models who gave explicit consent. These are not people being filmed on a television show giving implicit consent. Hell, a lot of these people don't even know their being filmed at all. Or if they do, that Uncle Larry isn't going to post their swim party cook out where they fell onto a pie on and everyone laughed Youtube. They certainly don't know that AntDx or Chainsaw John are going to comment on it with remarks about how much they want to diddle them.

Now let's compare that to Leon. For years Leon made a living filming beautiful women getting wet and mess IN PUBLIC specifically. And then also hosting wet and messy PARTIES that were filmed. The difference here is knowledge and consent.

The YouTube vids were
a. not made by a fetishist (someone posting their home videos)
b. not intended to be sexual material (home videos of clearly non sexual things)
c. made by a fetishist with a long zoom camera taking pics of unknowning victims.

The latter is:
a. made by a business
b. Intended or at least understood to be sexualized.
c. all the people filmed are either models or party attendees that have agreed to some form of consent as to what's happening to them, or what's being filmed, kind like with TV clips.

So, regarding and integrating that with Leon's point: Yeah it may be hot, and you shouldn't be ashamed if you see it and find it hot. But maybe...JUST MAYBE, you also shouldn't post it on a sex site if you very damn well know it's not intended to be sexual material, and/or is illegal.

So for me it looks like this
1. See hot person doing thing I find hot even though it's not intended to be sexual = FINE
2. Taking consensual pictures of it to jerk off to = FANFUCKINGTASTIC! Good for you!
3. Taking completely candid pictures of it to jerk off to later privately = less fine, voyeuristic
4. Sharing #3 with the rest of my fellow deviants on a sex site = Nah, no good to me
5. Opening up a store and selling my ill or possibly illegally gotten gains for profit = Hard NOPE

But that's just me.