Hey everyone, I'd love to hear what small details are important to you in WAM videos. For example - I'm a big fan of girls looking up with their mouths stills open. That was always a big deal for me buying scenes and it seemed to be luck of the draw for the most part hoping a girl would do it!

I'd love to hear what small wam details are important to other people!

In no particular order:

Smearing/Rubbing-in
Naturalistic responses
Good make-up and styling
Inventive delivery (of pies/gunge/mess etc)
Optimum view
Bold set dressing and lighting
Performance
Entertainment

I like to see a heavy mess subsuming perfection

Not removing clothes too soon. If there is nudity, I like to see full coverage clothed, then again, nude - full coverage all over again. And some more.

Not really a small detail at all. But I can't stand the director talking in the back ground, instructing the models what to do/say. Its one thing if its deliberate interaction between them. But the whispering of, "look up," and "don't wipe," "now say..." bothers me.

If you do multiple shoots with a model in one day, please, for the love of god, invest in a hair dryer. Nothing kills a video for me more than a model with wet, stringy hair.

I think everyone has their own little "quirks" that can make (or break) a scene... The issue, of course, is that most are deeply personal so, unless you're paying for a custom, you probably won't spot them in most videos.

For instance: I initially assumed that "girl gets pied while smoking with a long thin cigarette holder" was a sub-niche of WAM. Because 10% of ALL the videos you saw in the 90s seemed to feature this. Nope! That was just Lenny's personal thing, but he made a TON of customs back then, and he indirectly influenced the market. Now that he's stopped, you basically don't see any models smoking in videos ever.

Every producer has his own things, and most are easy to spot when you watch enough videos, so for the sake of changing it up, here's something I love to see but can't exactly "make" happen.... so it's always a nice surprise when it occurs:

Eyes open without any wiping!

It happens less than you think, and I can't "force" it as a producer as a lot of models won't open their eyes without wiping first, which is fair. BUT.... You can increase the odds by using more real pies (shaving cream burns) and varying the consistency. Also, I think one reason I love cakings is the eyes will naturally "appear" under the frosting if the model doesn't wipe.... Eyes open or not. Something about the consistency of cakes vs. pies, but either way I appreciate it when it happens. (Breana, unsurprisingly, does great with this, which is interesting as she's one who never opens her eyes, but the look happens anyway.)

Examples below as most of you already stopped reading by now.

The girl has to be really cute, pretty,gorgeous, etc....the more beautiful looking, the better (this is probably a salirophillia thang)...

wardrobe: sexy, feminine, pretty, fancy or frilly (but sometimes just cut-off shorts/Daisy Dukes and a blouse tied off at the middrift works fine!)...if in lingerie: NO thongs (too common and does nothing for clothing/material fetishism) and preferably NO black underwear (also WAY too common) unless it is frilly, lacey/semi-sheer....

...also real pies (with the occasional exception for SC pies with pudding and crusts)...

technical: good lighting and some basic attention to production details (like colors, back drop, camera work [close-ups and medium shots)...etc.

I'm personally a fan of a natural soundtrack, no back ground music I like to hear every word and every splat but like someone else said no direction please.

In a cake sitting film (all too rare!):

The girl must have a bare ass
She must be sitting on a chair/stool
Her legs must be apart

For me, and I admit I'm pretty tame about the whole thing - is that I like it when girl looks like she's having fun.

Really adds to the enjoyment, never really went in for the humiliation angle.

I agree with almost everything that has been written here. This includes:

1. Canned dialogue is awful. I like improvisation. It can often lead to some funny dialogue!

2. Hearing the director is a BIG no-no. Edit it out or be quiet.

3. Sitting on the floor......... I don't get it. If you don't want to dirty a chair, then have her stand.

4. On multiple shoot days, a hair dryer is a good idea. It takes 4-5 minutes to use one. And the girl looks so much better.

5. Rich is right about the eyes. Seeing the eyes is VERY important.

6. Make sure to use pretty girls.

All that said, the BIGGIES for me that I put into ever custom script are:

1. Hair down, not in a bun.

2. No glasses. I see a video where the model is wearing glasses when she is hit with her first pie, it is no sale.

3. Plot is essential

4. The girls must stay in character. I like humiliation, so smiling and laughing your way through it is a big turn off.

5. Pies to face only.

5. I always ask my producers to KEEP THE CAMERA ON THEIR FACES. Don't zoom, pan up and down their body, show their feet, show the pie table, etc. Because they invariable miss a face hit while they are trying to be all Steven Spielberg.

So.... I am not picky at all.

Pie after pie vs. slime after slime. For example, if a model gets pied in the face, there is a lot of imagination as to where that next pie will land: Head, chest, face again, etc. With slime, the producer will usually pour it over her head and it will cascade down her face and body, so the imagination as to where and how the next slime occurs is lost. Small detail, big difference for me.

I completely agree with Bozo and Wamajama!

In lingerie scenes, never use thongs!! Always nice panties... no black as well

And you know, if the pie goes inside model's mouth, the better!! I love when she spits out the pie, holding it inside the mouth for some seconds...

I've recently come to realise the one absolute must for me is DO NOT ZOOM IN!

I've seen way too many videos where the camera operator zooms in (usually on the model's head but sometimes elsewhere) and as a result completely kills the money-shots of the mess (especially the very first pours) going over the model's clean clothes / body.

Fair enough if someone is shooting a scene that is all about heads and faces and markets it as such - I don't get it but I know there is a chunk of the WAM market (esp the Pie Branch) that is only interested in head and face mess. But most of the time those scenes at least are clearly identified so those of us who want to enjoy seeing the models' outfits getting messy know to avoid buying them. But when someone sells something as fully clothed, but in fact most or all of the scenes are head-shot zoom-ins - arrghhhh!

Related to this: Just because a video camera shoots moving images does not mean the camera should move. I get the impression sometimes people zoom their camera, or pan it up and down, because they are convinced there needs to be "movement", when in fact what the watching audience wants to do is just enjoy watching a clear and steady view of the model getting messed up. The movement that matters is the mess flowing over the model and every movement of the camera distracts and detracts from this.

Second rule: For the love of all that's messy, TELL THE MODELS NOT TO CROSS THEIR LEGS!!!

Girls sitting cross-legged totally destroy the view of their lower halves getting messy and is equally scene-killing whether the girl is fully clothed or in a bikini (or even naked). Given WAM is a sexual fetish then the crotch area is a fairly important part of the body to be able to see, and especially to see going from clean to messy. Female models who are getting gunged sitting down should have legs uncrossed and sit straight, so we can see the mess either collecting in her lap if wearing a skirt or dress, or flowing down between her legs if wearing trousers, leggings, swimwear, or nude.

After those:

• Good lighting. It doesn't matter how great the mess is if we can't see it.
  
• For outdoor scenes, make sure the sun is behind the camera so the model is facing the light source. Our eyes are good at seeing detail even against the light but cameras are not.
  
• Detailed and accurate descriptions. "Holly gets gunged" is not a description. "Blonde model Holly, dressed in a tied-off blouse over bikini top, high waist cut-off denim hot pants, and wellies, has her hot-pants filled with Nutella, takes her blouse off, washes it in syrup and then puts it back on, before filling both wellies with custard and then taking a bath in milk, still fully dressed" is a description, esp if teamed with a few decent previews.
  
• Enlargeable preview shots, and enough of them that you can tell what you are going to see. While I've made occasional exceptions, my general rule is "no enlargeable thumbnails == no sale".

Beyond that it's largely personal taste issues - someone upthread said cake sitting must be naked, whereas for me to buy it must be fully clothed, for example.

Generally if a scene includes nudity I'll not buy it even if it starts clothed because I've found most scenes like that regard the nude bit as the important part and hence rush the clothed section or even have the models taking their outfits off while significant areas are still clean.

Zips: If a model's outfit has zip pockets, please make sure they are zipped up, and if they are opened (say to pour gunge in) then have them zipped up again afterwards. There is or was a site that did lots of girls in sportswear, tracksuit trousers and the like, which I quite like, but in several cases the girls were wearing trousers where leaving the side pockets unzipped meant the trousers didn't sit properly on the girls' figures, instead developing bulges and lumps at the front - which wouldn't have happened if the pockets were zipped up as the original designers of the clothes intended.

I actually really like glasses, glasses + slime is a good combo imo.
The model not being completely wooden is also important.
Not really a small detail but i'm not interested in scenes with watery slime, if they can wipe the slime off completely with one wipe then its too watery for me.
There are some scenes were the model never wipes their eyes throughout the entire scene which I don't like because eyes can be a very attractive feature and are used to convey emotion.

This is what I like - A fairly slow build up, before any pies are thrown, so we can get a good look at the girls first before they get messy. Full, quite heavy, make up, very smart clothes, always stockings and very high heels, basically, knowing that the fully dressed, glammed up girls are going to be trashed.

I don't like loads of plastic sheeting or a general cheap looking set, or too much nudity, I think the girls getting their clothes wrecked is as much of a turn on

Wow. I would never buy this video!

Gotta get in close enough to convey a sense of the texture of the wam substance and the model's skin. Static long shots = no sale.

Lots of arguments about close angles vs. longer shots. Gee.... If only there was a way to shoot BOTH at the same time?? But I guess said technology is impossible.....

Also, this thread might as well be subtitled: Why Producers Can't Get Sales Anymore.

But I think we're both arguing that you *shouldn't* shoot both at the same time, or at least should strongly emphasize one over the other in the editing.

So yep, you can't win!

Never thought of it from that POV before, ta for saying. I guess for that you'd want a very close-up shot, closer even than a full-head-shot?


I've seen at least one scene where it's obvious it was filmed from at least two different cameras, one of which was getting long-shots while the other took close-ups. But instead of releasing both sets of footage complete so the viewer can chose which one to watch, the scene is edited to switch between them, and at all the points where gunge is pouring on the models it shows the close-up, only cutting back to the long-shot to show the aftermath of all the great stuff we've not been allowed to watch happening.

Knowing that something awesome is happening only just off-screen that we're being denied the chance to see is possibly the worst possible thing to have in a wam video, in my humble opinion.

Imagine if someone shot a pie video where during the actual pie-ings they shot only zoomed-in close-ups of the pie remains falling into the girls' laps (head not in shot at all), then panning up to show the messy faces afterwards but never actually letting you see the pies actually landing on the girls' faces? That's what it's like for me when someone sells a "fully clothed" scene that zooms in on the model's head when she's having gunge poured over her. Fair enough if they sell it as a "girl gets her head gunged" scene. Not so good if it's sold as a clothed wam scene but then completely denies us a chance to actually watch the outfit get messed up.


Well, I guess it does show where I'm going wrong in trying to sell scenes to Regis.

WAM has to be the most fickled fetish out there. Mouth open, eyes open, full body, closeup, real pies, shaving cream pies, clothes on, clothes off, green slime, blue slime, pink slime. It's endless! Just do what you like to do. Trust me, you will be just fine if you establish your own style.

I am a big fan of stockings, and there is huge difference between stayups with some strings vs real stocking with real suspender stockings and proper belt.

Absolutely fantastic:
https://mostwam-charlotte.umd.net/download_info/excess-pies-custard-bath-and

Also great but not just the same thing:
https://mostwam-charlotte.umd.net/download_info/lila-oil-soaking-and-yellow-gungebath

And also would love if models manage to keep their stockings on until there is just a shape of suspenders under layer of mess or mud.

Also a small detail is with boots, like if those are really filled an water or mess is splashing out when walking or kneeling down.

This has really great washup scene with boots filled to the max:
https://mostwam-wrestling.umd.net/download_info/mudwrestling2017-ep-2-sky-and-cassie

Don't know if sating gloves count as small detail, but those are special in such way that girls usually tend to hesitate a bit, and at some point just let go. And same thing as stockings, should be kept on to the end.

I so wish that charlotte would have had some nice opera length gloves with this posh dress, but love the scene anyways:
https://umd.net/download_info/charlottes-posh-mud-demonstration

The main one I can think of that nobody's mentioned is that, for me, she's got to be barefoot and we've got to see that she's barefoot for a good amount of it.

I find that THE most important thing in WAM videos that make a difference is actually hitting that little red "RECORD" button on the cameras.

They never turn out as good if I don't do that.

Robby
WAMma Lamma Pie
www.wammalamapie.com

www.shepiestheguy.com

www.whatadoofus.com

The model getting her face and hair messy too soon. I like it when there's build up. Cover and fill her clothes first. Removing the outfit too soon as well. Love it when she is completely covered then removes her clothes and does her best to clean her face then gets messy all over again.

This is probably quite a controversial shout, but for the stuff I like (pies and gunge) it really bothers me when a model has her hair down. For gunge shoots, the hair forms what I like to call a 'gunge curtain' which prevents her face and other parts of her hair and head from getting messy. It can really ruin a promising gunging.

It's a similar story with pies. *Especially* pie sandwiches. If the hair protects the face it just completely kills it for me. I try and look for scenes where the girl has her hair tied up for this reason.

Oh, and another minor point. The first pie is key- it has to be good. There's no point trying to make up for it with the 2nd and 3rd, the moment has gone.

Agreed. Crucial!

Well, I was a (frustrated) fan before I produced, so I knew that pain. From Day One I had two cameras going at all times. Invariably there'd be a shoot where *something* got missed, but not often.
Once I expanded to three, I basically had most angles covered. And yes, while I still edit and cut between angles, I've been offering ALL the uncut footage from ALL the individual cameras for.... 10 years now??

I mean, there's still plenty of nitpicky things that I do (or don't do) that equal "no sale" for some.... But I'd like to think no one argues about the camera work.

I can tell you from years of experience that I can basically cut my sales numbers in half when a model has her hair up in a slime scene. That's a deal breaker for the slime crowd. So, unfortunately, your tastes run counter to most, so you probably won't be catered to unless you're paying for a custom.

FYI, I like the hair up, especially if it's a more "formal" type thing.... But it's not worth it to me to shoot myself in the foot, sales-wise.

The Bill Shipton Splosh vids used to combine long shots and close ups to great effect.

His vids also demonstrated the 'slow burn' slapstick technique which i love. So the models take the time to really process what's happening to them.....look into the camera, shake their head and then look for revenge. Fab.

Yes! Love the 'slow burn'. Messyfun's 'Ariel's Pie Shop' back in the day used this to really good effect, at least in the first half of the scene.

I agree about girls having wet hair at the start of a scene, and about a face hit or slime pour getting missed due to the camera panning somewhere else. Also, although I like a little, or even sometimes a lot of nudity, I dislike when you get a lot of extended close ups on the models pussy. A lot of agressive language, e.g. "Fuck you bitch" etc, is also a bit of a downer. Overall, I like the mood to be playful, silly, fun - or the kind of "slow burn" slapstick where it's very clear everyone is acting - or over-acting! The minute I start to think "Jeez, that looks really unpleasant, and I don't think she's pretending not to like it" I know it's not the scene for me.