https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X9T3v5hJpQ

Hilarious, so glad there are leather products out there that are driving these women into sliming themselves for us.

Yikes. Just to be clear: you're actively happy that people are killing animals for fashion?

Sure, why not. They're being killed to give me delicious meat, this other stuff is just a by product. Better to make belts out of it that just throw away the skin. Like the Native Americans, I'm glad to see us making good use of the animal rather than wasteful.

Meanwhile, after I eat a delicious steak or wonderful hamburger, we all get leather belts that drive political PETA activists to dump slime on their own heads, so it's really delivering on all accounts. I mean, I'd be fine with killing these animals simply for the steaks and hamburgers, but also getting nice belts and shoes and female extremist activists to slime themselves?!

That is a no-brainer. I can dress up nice, go out and get a great steak and then come home to plenty of great WAM material. Talk about essential needs being met. Really, this actually even out-paces those Native Americans, they were just making bow strings from ligaments or eye ball soup, the way we're using this animal is giving us plenty of great wank material, not even they went that far.

So, good for us and good for progress.

I've heard it all. I was dating a girl some time ago who felt wam was very wasteful, as there are people starving and we're tossing food on ourselves. Then there is the animal aspect, as this thread is mentioning. Here's my take:

1. Animal furs and skins have been used for centuries as they are warm, durable, etc. Yes, it requires slaughtering animals for this, but as was mentioned regarding leather, we use the entire animal, not just the hide. When people wear fur, the animals are well taken care of until they are slaughtered in a merciful way.

Food often comes from animal sources. The most obvious would be eggs, basically the fetus of an unfertilized baby chicken. But many other puddings, cake mixes, etc. contain powdered eggs or milk, also coming from animal sources. Even straight-up flour that comes from a field is a food and what about wasting it when playing with dough or batter?

What about cigarettes and alcohol, both plant-based and for human use, at the expense of using valuable farm land which could have fed people?

What about driving a muscle car and wasting oil that the planet gives us?

My take is that we do these things because we're human, and we can. We choose what to drive, eat, or wam with, because we are at the top of the food chain, at least where intelligence is concerned. (or so we like to believe)

So I say, wear it, eat it, play in it, mess with it, and in the end, you've lived your life the way you've seen fit to. I wonder what Peta's 'toxic slime' was made from?

Devil's Advocate here:

First, I am an omnivore (and localvore) but also an environmentalist (have been since my pre-teen youth)

Ok, second -- addresing the 'DJ' host of that video segment: he is criticizing what is known as 'direct action', while trying to state that the PETA protestors' small numbers makes them ineffective and unpersuasive (and using the Hong Kong protests as a comparative example)...but then adds "posting on tiktok"...which is a Social Media platform and can indeed reach millions of people, very quickly...so, he seems to be asserting that only a mass protest (on the order of Hong Kong) can make a difference, while ignoring the potential huge impact of social media, thus undermining his assertion. I'm guessing he has never participated in any protest, nor any small protest at the beginning of a movement's emergence (before it has mass appeal/popularity). I'm guessing he also just hates (like many people) PETA.

Regardless, direct action is about shock and provocation (thus consciousness raising)...no pundit , DJ, or internet vlogger actually conducts research to determine the impact (great or small) of such actions. Hi opinions are biased and meant only as infotainment.

As for the use of cow hides for belts, shoes, etc. Yes, I offer my qualified agreement: so long as we are wastefully raising cattle for food, we are obliged not to be wasteful with whatever 'left-over' animal parts remain (post slaughter). Now, I loves me a good steak or burger (and I also support genetically engineering food animals without pain receptors to eliminate 'pain and suffergin' but many oppose GM foods)...but, BEEF is a very wasteful animal 'product' (in terms of energy inputs and waste generated per unit of food consumed) -- however high protein the food product is. IMO, that is the fact that should be emphasized.

Next: fur animals (not to be confused with furries) are NOT treated humanely while being slaughtered (skinned); there may be some humane fur farms here and there, but it's a niche-high-profit market and concern for the pain and suffering of the animals is largely absent (PETA has actually exposed this cruelty many times in the past). But yes, PETA is and extremist vegan organization (who oppose all use of animals, including pets and service animals) and posture as morally superior, thus making them really annoying and easy targets for ridicule.

However, to the poster who wrote: "...driving a muscle car and wasting oil that the planet gives us?"...the planet does not 'give us' oil...it actually sequesters it (often) deep underground; we extract it for its power density value (once converted to fuel, generating massive air pollution in the process)...and we continue to do so at our own peril. I appreciate a nice looking and fast automobile (as an American)...but we will have to give up this child-like idolatry of fossil-fuel-combustion-based engines one day soon if we are going to keep GHGs under control (and save the animals, if not ourselves).

Lastly, the 'toxic waste' slime stunt has been done before (see image)...I'm guessing due to its messy-shock value (it looks like crude oil, and Wam fetishism aside -- who would want to be covered in carcinogenic crude oil?). Ok, so maybe this is a partial FAIL (inside or outside this community) due to the weak connection between toxic slime and cows...but, it DOES get people talking and re-posting the images on SM platforms...so, the claim that it is completely ineffective (as messaging) is unfounded. It is merely ambiguous.

First please note I'm not the one who brought politics into this thread, but as long as they've come up, I figured I'd dive in. And please note, I'm not attacking Enigmahood here, but rather our President, his policies, and the people who think he's really got a firm grasp on reality and is steering our country in the right direction. (Not sure if that group includes Enigmahood or not; he's free to enlighten us in a response.)


So Enigmahood's trinity of "essential needs" is:

1. attractive clothing
2. food
3. jerkoff material

Enigmahood also makes many bold political statements on this forum and generally presents himself as a man with a firm grasp on what's important in life and how the world should be run. Why, just seven weeks ago he wrote on this forum:


Let's note that currently the U.S. death toll from this pandemic over just the past two months now stands at 73,000 -- that's TWELVE TIMES the average number of U.S. deaths from car accidents over two months. And this thing is a LONG way from over, no matter what our truly asinine, incompetent hack of a President tells us.

"People's lives be damned," Enigmanood writes above, which is ironic because that would be such an apt slogan for Trump and all the people who follow his lead and think we need to rush our nation back to normal operation because this threat is going to just "miraculously" disappear soon. Hey, why not just do something quick and easy like drink bleach or inject ourselves with ultraviolet radiation? Yes, the President of the United States seriously queried if these were possible strategies. THIS from the guy who thinks he's done such a bang-up job of healing our nation that he's miffed he's not given proper praise for his heroism in the media? This seems VASTLY more shameful to me than a group of people protesting on behalf of animal rights, but obviously, Enigmahood, your mileage must vary.

I do understand that many in our country and around the world are desperately financially hurting as a result of all the lockdowns, and I realize that even that fat $1,200 check with Trump's signature so prominently plastered on it won't save them (if they can even get their hands on that, thanks to government incompetency, which I'm sure Trump will tenuously blame on Obama).

So once again, Trump is urging us to ignore the advice of the experts in the relevant field (in this case health experts, doctors, scientists) in favor of his own inane intuition and gargantuan ego, coupled with his desperate desire to get re-elected in November. Sad.

I love Tyler Zed!

I also love me some steak. And I've worked on a farm, slaughtering chickens for food, as well as deworming cows. Killing your own food, and preparing it (not just cooking it) really gives you a different perspective on things. But it didn't make me into a vegetarian. If anything it made me appreciate life more, as well as the food that I eat.

Here's the thing, even if every human being stopped eating meat over night, that doesn't end animal suffering. People will still hit deer in their cars, and molecularly fuse squirrels to pavement. Animals will continue to eat other animals (without any regard for the pain the prey is going to feel). Pain and suffering are an integral part of life, ALL life.

To quote my favorite band Tool: "This is necessary, life feeds on life, feeds on life..."

If we can learn to "grow" meat through cloning, that would be pretty neat. And if it's safe, nutritious and delicious, I'd be down for that as I'm a die hard Trekkie. But we're not there yet.

Regarding PETA? My opinion is P. Please E. Eat T. The A. Animals, I mean, they'd eat you. I think they bring light some issues with Animal cruelty...usually in the stupidest, inane, and sometimes illegal (maybe I'm thinking of Greenpeace on this one) ways of doing it.

But now I'm going to go a little dark. ALL animals need population control, and nature often finds ways of doing it (animals eating their ecosystem to starvation for instance). Humans are not exempt from this.

And to touch on the remarks about us burning through the Earth's resources....we need to be a little more appreciative of them, and resourceful with them. Because people won't stop fucking and making more people. When I was born in 1982, there were only around 4 billion people on this planet, 2.7billion in '54 when my dad was born. Today we're almost at EIGHT billion. That is almost DOUBLE the population in just under 40 years. And out technology, infrastructure, and consumerism has grown globally with it.

If things continue at the same mathematical rate as they are without significant changes, someone 40 more years from now reading this discussion would think this is the most depraved or at least epicurean concern we could possibly have.

End note: growth cannot be sustained unless all factors involved grow equally e.g. population and food. Since that NEVER happens in nature, growth WILL cease eventually, humanity included.

I eat meat (although not a lot of it) but there's a difference between population control...killing some deer so we can eat meat and otherwise a lot of them will starve to death anyway...and massively breeding animals so we can wholesale slaughter them and eat hamburgers every day.

Like I said, I eat meat, but also I have no illusions to the rest of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Meanwhile, I like where one lady seems fascinated by the ooze. Sources for gifs below:

https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1172561897222225920 (from the Twitter post featured in that YouTube vid -- I slowed it down)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2005118/Video-Activists-cover-toxic-slime-London-Fashion-Week.html (HEADS UP! a TON of ads load on this site)

Hard to find vids where digital banners aren't obscuring things The still is from PETA's site.

Sorry to bring politics into this...

BUT only if those coronavirus protestors would slime themselves.... and if I had to choose, I'll take masks over goggles any day.

It's also win-win, because if they're super messy, they're more likely to keep their distance from one another, which keeps them safe.

One can dream... if I'm governor of WAMcity... mandatory slimings if you leave your home!!!

Oh, my! Enigmahood has a shitpost! How provocative!


Ok, but, three points:

1. Getting rid of red meat factory farming would vastly decrease our ecological footprint, and therefore do just a little bit more to save us from the 4-degree increase in global mean temperature increase that will destroy our civilization and lead us to the edge of extinction.
2. Overpopulation is just another word for inefficient distribution of resources (because the 'over'- in 'overpopulation' effectively means 'over what we can sustain').
3. Population can actually be managed quite well just by respecting womens' civil liberties. So, e.g., genuinely recognizing and respecting women's reproductive rights, and their freedom to use birth control, would decrease the number of children born into poverty.

As to coronavirus, which popped up upthread for some reason -- the next two months are going to be extremely bloody for America. Not 'one million dead' bloody, but 'a 9/11 per day' bloody. The Republican administration, propped up by market fundamentalist shills, is reportedly preparing for a body count of 100K (in excess of the current projection of 100K). It is worth noting, and not passing over, the fact that, unlike car crashes, many of these deaths are foreseeable and feasibly preventable. And, to add insult to ... mass death... some of these Republicans are reportedly even trying to smuggle a capital gains tax cut into an upcoming stimulus bill. Yes yes, PETA sucks, Biden sucks, Clinton sucks, etc., but these Republican guys are actively trying to kill anyone who isn't part of the 1%.

I've met PETA activists and their reasoning has more holes than swiss cheese. Also they don't take too kindly to people Autism. Something about us being a part of being tools of a global illuminati plot for world domination.

Crazier than a bag full of cats that lot.

plus im pretty sure that "toxic" slime is molasses.... its pretty unlikely to actually be toxic slime

I just now checked, and wow I was way off on the # of the annual deaths by motor accidents. Wonder where I read it was so high? (cliffs: It's not) Interestingly, the rate has gone down over the years, I would have never guessed that with the advent of cell phones and other distractions. I figured until we got smart cars we were going to deal with it.

I retract my months old comment about the coronavirus being lesser than car accidents that was dug up here, my #s were way off. I also underestimated how many people would die by a little, although to be fair, when I was thinking 20-30K by now others were saying it would be in the Millions, so it's not like anyone really had a handle on it.

In other political commentary, most of eat meat, sorry PETA but you'll just have to keep dumping slime on your heads, if someone has a line to them see if you can get the activists to stage a pie fight for us next time, I'm more into that than oily slime, but I'll take what I can get.

I know a fair few vegans, without exception they all despise PETA, so don't assume that organisation's rantings in any way reflect the views of the average vegan. Amongst other things their tendency to use naked or scantily clad women as publicity stunts doesn't go down too well with feminists, and their support of kill-shelters and reported keenness to euthenaise people's pets means many people who genuinely care about animals hate them too. And pretty much all of my friends are both modern feminists[1] and animal lovers.

Back on-topic, from a clothed WAM POV these scenes aren't up to much, they get a fair bit of goo (which does look suspciciously like black treacle rather than toxic sludge) on their heads but comparitively little on their outfits, at least when compared to a proper WAM scene.

[1] Modern feminist in this case meaning believing in gender (and LGBT+) equality, including supporting freedom, legalisation, and respect, for sex workers.

Enigmahood, I have to give you credit -- you are, at the very least, a slightly bigger man than Trump (whom I strongly suspect you support even though you never just come out and say it). You can at least admit it when you've made a statistically verifiable mistake -- which sadly is FAR more than our President can do. That man will bend over backwards to justify comments that he's made that are just demonstrably, factually WRONG.

I can tell you where you made your error in the post I quoted above, which you penned 7 weeks ago -- one million to 1.25 million deaths from automobile accidents per year is what is generally reported as the WORLD's annual average, but you accidentally applied it to the U.S. The U.S. actually boasts a LOWER percentage of auto accident fatalities per capita than the world as a whole. (Better safety features on our cars, maybe? I dunno. I sure doubt Americans are looking LESS at their cellphones while driving than the rest of the world!).

Unfortunately, on the other hand, the US comes out on a VERY losing end when we look at coronavirus stats per capita. As of today's latest statistics:

33.4% of total reported cases of the coronavirus are in the U.S. (1,261,860 out of 3,772,367, or 8x the world's per capita average.)
.
28.2% of total world deaths due to the coronavirus are in the U.S. (74,665 out of 264,189, or nearly 7 times the world's per capita average.)

Note that the U.S. comprises just 4.2% of the world's population.

Our own daily reported cases and deaths are also decreasing more slowly than the world's as a whole, so those abysmal per-capita stats are extremely likely to get even worse over time.

Now, presumably China underestimated their own figures, so the real story is probably not quite this harsh, but any way you slice it, this is still a HORRIBLE picture for the U.S. So now let's face facts. If we'd had a President who took this threat seriously a lot earlier -- and plenty of people in his own White House were telling him to do exactly this, some in mid-January... If we'd had a president that hadn't dismantled the National Security Council Directorate established by Obama specifically to deal with pandemics (and of course Trump then turned around and blamed 100% of our nations's unpreparedness on Obama and state governors) ... If we'd had a president who didn't trust his own intuition and ego over the advice of scientific experts ... If we'd had a president who acted like an actual leader instead of a self-obsessed, self-serving baby more concerned with what late night talk show hosts are saying about him than trying to actually solve this problem ... then surely the U.S. would have significantly less than SEVEN TIMES THE PER CAPITA DEATH RATE FROM THE CORONAVIRUS AS THE REST OF THE WORLD.

Just sayin'.

Please excuse me for a moment . . .

OK. Carry on, if you must.

Not sure what any of this has to do with PETA being a silly organization that is about stunts and naked celebs more than anything. If you want to help animals then donate your time and money to the local human society or elephants.com . That's a retirement sanctuary for working elephants near Camp MPV in Tennessee.