Inspired by a recent thread where users started talking about the type of videos they want to see, it made me think about the economics of WAM and how unrealistic a lot of fan requests are unless they're paying the costs of a custom video.

I've been buying WAM videos ever since the adoption of the pay-per-download system. And in that entire time the pricing convention has been charging about a dollar per minute per video. Even browsing the store right now I'm seeing a lot of decent looking stuff sell for $10-$15. That's about the price I was paying for my first SlapstickStuff videos back in 2008. Does that seem right to you in 2022?

The price of everything has gone up: foodstuffs, models, video equipment, space. Meanwhile, in the WAM world, the barrier of entry has been obliterated to the point where anyone can make videos, leading to an influx of new content driving the price of content to rock bottom. For a viewer, their first instinct is celebrate all this new cheap content. Until they get bored and start wondering why videos aren't like they used to be, or where the $10 version of their specific preference is.

If I ask how much WAM videos should cost, everyone would say "NOTHING!" Or if they want to be fair about it, they might compare it to Onlyfans, where most girls are shooting themselves in their rooms playing with themselves without hundreds of dollars in groceries. But for a good produced WAM video involving a skilled crew and god-forbid multiple on-camera talents, I think you're realistically looking at double the 2008 price. That's right: look at the video store and double the price tag on everything there and I think you've got a realistic price of WAM in today's economy. The only reason prices aren't higher is because the last great producers left have a decade-old back catalog of passive income allowing them to keep up with the Joneses and the newbies are making corner-cutting trash. One way or another, we're getting what we're paying for.

Is this the reason people are getting bored with WAM? Is the traditional dollar-a-minute model stifling the quality of "stock" WAM videos? I know nothing gets you enemies like suggesting something should be more expensive, but for the sake of the average video buyer who doesn't want to shell out for customs, maybe that's the solution.

Videos will cost what the market values them at. Producers know what their fixed and variable costs are and what they can charge for their videos. I imagine that while costs have gone up, competition has also significantly increased, with many more producers entering the scene and forcing prices lower due to additional competition.

I agree with that, but if you're going to be a market absolutist about it then one could say that the state of WAM is such that everyone wants cheap mediocre cell phone videos of bathtub blowjobs. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I've self-selected out of the WAM "market" years ago in favor of making my own stuff at incredible cost. I don't really know what today's WAMmers want, nor do I really care.

But if anyone out there dependent on "stock" videos from producers ever wonders why WAM isn't like The Old Days or where all the new ideas have gone, there's your answer: "we" value non white balanced unflattering bathtub blowjobs. Enjoy!

"the newbies are making corner-cutting trash"

Friend-o, every producer starts out that way. And that is some arrogant, rude-ass shit.

Well, sounds like you're doing the right thing if you feel like that and voting with your wallet! At the same time though, I don't understand how not supporting producers who *are* making quality, studio content is aligned with your view here. Their videos are too good of a value to support them?

Sigh. You are right. Sincerely, I always try to be patient with new producers and give them slack for not knowing what they don't know because that's how everyone begins.

But at the same time...I'm kinda right. Look, you can see what's a product of inexperience and what's a product of cheapness. Don't know how to light a scene, white balance your camera, compose your shot? Lack of experience. You'll get there. Keep at it. Shooting in your bathtub or dirty kitchen? Not using models with any kind of camera presence? Exploiting cheap labor from the developing world? You're cutting corners, not even attempting to put a good-looking product out there. But here's the thing: at the prices the "market" expects for videos, how can anyone blame them?

Let's not pretend that the low barrier of entry has unlocked a new generation of hundreds of brilliant WAM minds who just needed a shot to show their stuff. No, the amount of talent (or potential for talent) out there has always been the same regardless of how high or low the barrier is. The state of the market now just means anyone with a phone can now throw an MP4 file on the UMD store with minimal effort and maybe make a few bucks of profit. You know the upstarts from the pretenders. And it's the pretenders who are setting the tone for the WAM market.

I mean, I'll still buy good studio content when it meets my preferences. But since the good studio producers are either dying off, ramping down production (because of aforementioned rising costs), or being sex pests, our options there aren't as plentiful as they used to be. And anyone aspiring to be the next Lenny or Rob Blaine would be broke without a hope of breaking even before their second video hit the stores.

Rob Blaine used to sell his video's for $60 each back in the early days.

Phil

And sell them he did.

Supply and demand. Some principles refuse to go away....

Yep and this was in 1997. I couldn't afford them back then.

Yeah, so the question is would demand sustain that $60 price point when the supply of content has exploded in a way nobody could have imagined during his time? The sex pest used to sell 4+ girl food fight extravaganzas for a fraction of Rob's price. People bitched when a Patreon dared to offer unlimited access to a bunch of videos for less than the price of one Rob video. And don't get me started about the "demand" for free preview pics...

If you want to say "supply and demand" and "let the market decide" without any deeper analysis, then that means acknowledging that yes, "supply and demand" would preclude Rob Blaine's prices in the modern day and "the market" has "decided" that cheap corner-cutting content is good enough.

I saw corner-cutting on the way, so I stopped shooting. But that's just me.

In any case, you did a pretty good job of answering your own question there.

We now all live in a world where everyone wants everything but doesn't want to pay for it and then certainly not a fair price. I used to mail order VHS vids from Dave all the way to the Sunny UK! I paid what i felt was at the time, a fair price. He was going out to various natural locations with models and they were fucking themselves/each other silly and loving it. Not cheap and not easy to arrange or film. Then came the internet.....The End!

Appreciated it's cheaper to edit material and cameras are cheaper etc plus you don't have to post VHS tapes....with the joys of downloads. UHD on your phone!
Porn sites and stolen material forced prices down in my opinion and how hard/soul distroying it must be for producers to release a clip to find it on every platform in minutes. I don't blame Dave or others for hanging up the camera, I for one was gutted! Now as a collective we have less material and quality has gone down....Buy cheap buy twice.

We should consider this with the remaining great folk still going through the pain. Thankfully they do and hopefully continue to do so!

I've been wondering a lot about this least in producing buying I haven't done much of but got a few videos I'd like to support

In a way I think onlyfans has also impacted this in a way.

Some things cannot be controlled by the 'market' for wam videos. For example, if a producer needs to rent studio space to customize for his specific wam shooting needs. The cost of props, lights, cameras, etc. and building a shower, change-room, drains for messes, etc. Then, the cost of the messy materials themselves, whether they be gunge, custard, clay or whatever. Finally, the talent, including the models and the video shooters/photographers. There is also post-production with computer costs and then utility bills for everything to run on an ongoing basis. I'm sure I've left a lot out. So if you take these costs, which are NOT governed by the 'market', and figure out the expenses for one video, you have to get that money back through sales. You can sell a lot of copies at a low price, or fewer at a higher price, and your own trial and error will show what will work best for you. But at the end of the day, you have to make a little profit, or at least break even.

This is a big reason why someone shooting in their own bathroom is more common, because the costs are minimal, although the results may also be minimal. Quality is lower, technical quality of the videos, quality of the talent, amount of mess, etc. etc. all get cut in order to save a buck.

So the question is how DO you make a buck in wam video production today? Probably by aiming somewhere in between an amateur set up at home and an elaborate studio space. Maybe dedicate a room in your home for video shoots, with great lighting, necessary plumbing, etc. I really don't know what the answer is, but that 'buck a minute' thing seems to have stuck around.

I'm a buyer of both store vids and custom vids. I'm fully appreciative of the time and effort it must take to produce. Onlyfans/Manyvids etc I've had some great customs at different budgets. All the hair, makeup, prep, cleanup takes time and effort. A 15 min clip doesn't take just 15 mins to prepare and shoot so I think many are underpriced.

I think a lot of the studios do it as a hobby/passion project which pays for itself (video sales on average cover the cost of production), but from what I understand any profit margin isn't sufficient to pay a living wage.

For me- I've looked at the going rate for commissioning a custom scene; considering cost of studio, talent hire, gunge, videography etc its a LOT of money to watch someone do the thing that scratches my itch.
The same money easily buys my own messy time to scratch the same itch.
The price of an off-the-shelf scene compared to a packet of gunge powder? Yeah I'd take the gunge.

I'm a guy who is cheap by nature, so I tend to wait for sales, BOGO that sort of thing, but I think I've bought 3 videos that were over 15.00 in the past 20 years. Sometimes, you see a vid and you know. But mostly I clean up during black friday and sales run through the year.

But I do understand the money that goes into a video and the market value, and needing to make your money back. Hoenstly the fact that people still list some videos at under 5.00 is shocking.

Though I've seen a few models who becuase of their "assets" and looks charge 25.00 or more for a very bad coverage, with a few splashes of shaving cream which to me is hilarious. But I see multi camera 50 pie shoots for 12.99 which must have cost hundreds to shoot, so I don't know. Maybe if I become a producer I'll get it more.

Those who've succeeded in the WAM business have worked out the size of the market. It's not a big market. It's a small market. Rob Blaine sold videos for $60 not only because he could - but also because he probably had to. And I'm told he didn't pass away a rich man - far from it.

The X factor is the obsession and the love for it. That's what drives it. The market is easy to find now and there are more producers than ever. Once it was that the market was hard to find and the producers were also accordingly few.

You'll notice a few figures who appeared out of nowhere and disappeared just as quickly. I'll bet my bottom dollar they thought they'd hit gold just making a few videos pouring gunge over themselves. But no, they realised just how much skin they were going to have to put in this game.

It's small and fickle.

I'm obsessed. I got a lucky break but, going forward, making videos I want to make (and also like) is only going to be a labour of love.

This thread is an interesting read!

I know to start off 2022, we increased our standard price for videos by $1 and it seems like that slowed down a lot of our sales but I am also at a loss for explanation because the costs of all the supplies have gone through the roof. But I also know that increasing the price of the videos will scare off even more customers. We dont make content to be profitable but I would like to cover our costs and it is challenging to say the least. Another thing the customers may not all be aware of is the costs for hosting their catalogs on UMD or vidown. Every sale takes a decent chunk out of that price as well.

Everybody starts off with a small production and that is certainly how we started. Learned new things along the way and bought new equipment. I would like to think to myself that we have improved our product over the years. With all the challenges, and at the end of the day it is still fun to do and Kate and I love making messy vides for all of us to enjoy.

I certainly haven't

AGREED! More to say later perhaps but I've got nothing negative to say about anyone making videos whether big budget with high production value or simple home vids. Nothing but love for it all. Just hope we are not witnessing the beginning of the end of it all with some of the recent events.

Agreed! While it seems like a lifetime ago, my original college degree was in business and economics. Curious what (if any) effect people that post content for free have on the overall WAM market

-JD

Agree with all of this.
A little ingenuity and creativity goes a long way. And that's often independent of spending a lot of money.
I shot the SAW parody two years after starting out. Even if you did it today, costs would be minimal. It just took a LOT of time to set up and a LOT of time editing after (like, a full week). But if you're motivated and inspired, it can be done.

As for new producers, I want to single out The Man & The Wife for being intensely creative in their scenes and setups lately. (And also PieZone!!) I hope they're getting great sales out of it! I do occasionally tell The Man that his energy reminds me of myself before I got old and tired.

For sure! I didn't realize just how much work everything was until I started recording solo stuff at home. It came out bad enough that free would have been too high a price, but my excuse is that I'm still learning by trial and lots of error. Setup and cleanup time are the biggest annoyances because it's like it adds 90 minutes before and after.

I've always wondered about the model cost, are they expensive because that's what they charge or is there a big chunk of it that goes to travel?

Well model costs vary. If a model is already coming to your town for work, you may be able to get a break on traveling. If you find someone you REALLY want to bring in then yeah, you're going to be eating a lot of costs before the first pie is thrown. But for the average model hire, rates will be based on experience, nudity, and how explicit you want her to be. I luck out because I shoot fully clothed stuff, maybe a little lingerie sprinkled in there. But if I were doing nude or X-rated content, that rate could easily double.

And hey, let's keep it 100: prettier models cost more to hire. That's the elephant in the room. Everyone wants to see the effortlessly hot chick from the toothpaste commercial or the big-boobed instagram model get slimed, well guess what: they're charging 2-4x as much as the postal worker from Craigslist who needs rent money and has never had a professional photo taken of her. Every producer knows this and pays for it, but do you ever see the "pretty girl premium" reflected in the video price? Rarely.

Time is money. Although I'm no longer producing anything, I'm still bothered by all the time involved in the clean-up and in prepping an area to get messy in. For that reason, I purchased an inflatable spa-style pool that is deep enough to contain a lot of mess and large enough around to roll around in. The floor drain connects to a hose to the house drain in the same room. There is a hand-held shower hose within reach. This means clean-up will be much easier and much faster, both for the wife and myself and for the tub itself. Naturally we won't be using semi-solids such as oatmeal or beans, but any kind of foams, slimes, sweet sticky substances, etc. can be easily diluted with water and sprayed down the drain.

So if I was producing, this would save time and therefore money. It required us to dedicate one room of our house to messy play, but well worth the effort compared to tarping everything and taping up plastic everywhere, then scooping messes into bins and rinsing things out in the yard.

If we did shoot video, we have bright ceiling lights already in place and could easily set up a camera on a tripod, so my post is to suggest that a producer could go this route if they are doing ok and wanting to go a bit bigger - without renting commercial space.

As a consumer I agree. Back in 2000s, I was a dead broke student and would pay *higher* prices for videos than I would today, 20 years later. Personally, I do think there's some high quality producers that should charge more because they produce quality stuff.

To be honest, I love your stuff, and have bought a bunch. I never even noticed the increase. I think it's far less that and far more the last sentence. The global economy is dogshit, the US (most likely) blew up two of Europe's gas pipelines. So, people are worrying more about not freezing to death this winter and keeping a roof of their head.