Was talking to Noise today about a new possible project of mine.

On UMD download stores, everybody's content is sort of combined into one big store. You do have your own individual page that lists just your stuff, but really, even that is still "on UMD." This communal approach does help all producers reinforce each other's sales.

But what if you could also have your very own, "real" virtual site? Your own customizable colors, logo, layout. Your independent site would have a download store on it, PLUS you could specify a single price and allow people to join an actual full membership area. From your existing UMD admin panel, you could specify which of your existing downloads would be available inside of the full membership area, which will appear only in your download store, and which will be in both. You could create pages, update text throughout the site, specify listing sizes and number per page, run your own model pages, etc.

And I'd strive to make it so easy that initially, you won't have to do anything: Your virtual standalone store would be created, and it would start selling content from your existing download store, without you setting anything up. It would just use a default graphic template which you could go and customize if you wish. And the full-members area would be closed until you go through and switch some videos to appear inside it.

Customers could shop for full-membership sites from UMD's download store system just like they shop for individual downloads: They could "add your site" to their cart, and when they check out, they will be given access to your full membership area. Payments for membership sales would be delivered to you along with your usual pay.

Ideas?
Messmaster

If you decided to go this idea proposed, how long would it take you to develop it? Just curious... Any ideas on a potential start date? It doesn't seem like a terrible plan.

Regards,
--Chris

I couldn't ask for a better system than the one we have now

I had a few more thoughts, hit the IM if you are about tonight MM.

Sounds like a great idea.
We already have the UMD store embedded onto our basic site but this sounds better.
Would we be able to have some sort of News or blog page as well ?

Hear, hear ... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Mike.

This kind of echoes my sentiment. I can imagine improvements that would be actual improvements, but I also fear any additional complexity. The most important thing is that customers can find and purchase clips. Extra customization doesn't equate to improved sales, or an improved customer experience.

I'm not saying your idea isn't great. I'm not quite picturing what you are proposing, and the current system is working, as far as I know. Can you make a mock-up, so people like me have a better idea what you're proposing? It doesn't need to be functional.

Sure! Well, I'll outline it. The whole store system you see on UMD would be untouched. It'll look and function totally the same. Your administration area would also look and work exactly the same. The difference is that you could go to a url, say http://umd.net/s/muddoug and it would be an independent-looking download store that sells only your stuff, and has your own colors, your own layout, and so on. You could create your own pages on it, your own news, customize the homepage, add a logo, customize your model showcase pages. If you do absolutely nothing, the basic store will still be created, and it'll be there selling your videos for you, using a default layout and color scheme. My idea is to add zero work for you guys. But if you wanted to take more control over your store, you can.

While the download store will be enabled by default, you can also open a full-membership area on your site. This requires a tiny bit of effort on your part: Simply edit each video that you would like to include in the full-membership area, and set it to show up there, on your download store, or both. You won't have to re-upload anything or set up any new scenes. Just edit the ones you've got and tell UMD if you want them in your full-membership area. You'd also have to add at least one price and subscription option. And that's it. Your membership area AND your download store are working for you, on your own independent, custom site.

Having individual stores like this can be seen as redundant. However, some producers prefer an independent look and feel to showcase their work, and if my idea turns out like I want it to, everybody will get to have that, plus a presence on the main UMD store too, with little or no effort. Search engines will pick up on these stores, and customers will be more likely to bookmark them than something that looks like this: http://umd.net/downloads/site/messydreamsnet?new_downloads_sortby=latest .

I don't really have any mockups, as nothing you see on UMD itself will really change. Except maybe when you go to the Producers page, it'll be arranged a bit more differently, and their linking will change to go to the independent stores that everyone has instead of back to the main UMD store. I have not yet decided whether I'll try to allow independent domain names, but even if I do, they will redirect to a url like http://umd.net/s/mystore

MM

Thank you, MM. I got most of that the first time. It is now more clear. I'm on the fence about a membership area. I had a membership site and decided it did not work for the seasonal nature of my videos, but it may work well for others.

I'm sort of the oddball here on UMD, anyway. I don't upload all of my male content and I don't do that much female content.

I do have a niggling detail for you that I just noticed yesterday, but I wasn't sure of what I was seeing. It used to be, when I clicked on a post in the messy forum (e.g.), the link at the top would say "back to messy forum", or something like that, and it would take me back to the messy forum. That is no longer true. Now it says "back to forum home" and it takes me all the way back to the forum list.

Just FYI. You do an awesome job on the UMD, MessMaster. I'm sorry you only hear from me when I have some niggling gripe.

Oh! I'll get right on that!

Thanks,
MM

No worries. It looks like I was hallucinating, because it's working fine, now.

Hmmm, it completely depends on where you want to take the site, but my feeling is that this would not necessarily be a good development. It would possibly feel like UMD trying to dominate the entire wam scene, which is fine if that's the strategy, but my main concern is with getting involved membership sites.

I have personally always felt that a membership site is too much responsibility as I couldn't guarantee I would always update as regularly as required, and from the forums, I know this is a regular gripe.

You could say that running a membership site was purely the responsibility of the producer, but if UMD was involved in taking the money, would you then have to guarantee consistency and tell with customer complaints?

Just a brain dump, but a valid point I think

It's working now because I got right on it!

Very valid points. As far as dominating the wam scene, I guess anything I do here could be seen as me trying to do that. Since 1998, I've never stopped adding features. Just recently, I've added the wam wall, the TV, the download store. Before that it was the forums and the chat room and the user profiles, etc. At which feature does one draw the line and finally say that I'm trying to "dominate the wam scene?" That's certainly not my intent. My intent is to explore and implement ways that will give wammers (and wam producers) every possible way to give and receive wam, free or paid. My brain is always working (for better or worse!), and I'm always ambitious to give the community one more thing. Most of the time (as is the case now), I'm responding to requests from umd members, and other times I'm just testing out what I thought would be fun.

An independent site would be 0% extra responsibility for the producers. You don't even have to use it if you don't want to. Some producers could technically never even know their independent site is there, but yet it's there selling their videos anyway. While a representation of their existing UMD download store would appear on their site immediately, the full membership areas or their site would be closed by default. When the producer goes and assigns some of his existing scenes to appear in the membership area, then the membership area will automagically open itself and begin taking signups. There is no requirement to update on any given time frame (but I may require at least like 20 scenes to be in there before it will open). You could add scenes to your membership area and then just leave it forever if you want. Prospective members can view your past updates, and observe the release dates (and quantity) of those updates, and determine for himself whether you tend to update regularly or not, just like on other membership sites out there. As always, I handle all customer service issues anyway. Regardless of update frequency, I think it's good to give the producer the option of offering a lump of their content for a single-membership price, which some customers definitely prefer to do. If the producer does not want to open the membership area at all, then he has nothing to do; It'll remain closed while the download store remains open on his site either way.

Such a system satisfies a few needs. For one, some producers may not know how or want to build and maintain an entire site just to sell their stuff. A 3rd party download store system such as UMD's could satisfy their need for a place to sell downloads, but if the producer wants an actual web site where they can post news and "about us" and highlight their own models and change the colors and layout--well that doesn't exist right now unless they build it themselves or pay somebody a boatload of money, plus find billing. Integrating such sites into UMD's platform means that no producer will be required to re-upload any content or build anything in order to have their own download and/or membership site. And they don't have to put any effort into maintaining it at all.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the detailed response - and please don't think was being too critical.

In terms of dominating the scene, I see it as entirely up to you how you want to run this amazing site/service and how you want to expand. I do foresee a bit of angst about taking over the money side of things, but if you provide a service, it is up to producers to choose whether to use it, and customers whether to support it.

I do still have more of a problem with the membership site thing. I understand that you are simply providing framework, so it is not really your issue, but I anticipate a mass of new sites, or sites holding previously download material, springing up, being inadequately maintained and lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums, and subsequent complaints to payment companies, possibly causing problems for good producers too.

The birth of UMD download (and to a lesser extent The Mothership before that) lead to a load of amateur producers selling their wares, and overall I see this as a positive thing, but I do think a membership site is another step up, and it may be necessary to do some moderating/policing of service.

However - it is a service I would be interested in seeing, just a few concerns as well.

I agree with you GlamourGunge!

Regards,
--Chris

Hmmm, remember that people cannot just come here and "create a site." UMD will handle all that and decide whether a site should exist or not. There is literally no maintenance. Even right now all download stores on UMD are automatically created and maintained based on whether the producer has any content uploaded. Once the producer adds some stuff, UMD creates his store and sells it for him.

Take a look at mudlover's existing download store on UMD: http://umd.net/downloads/site/mudlovercom He did not set that up; He only uploaded its content and UMD built this listing for him. I call this listing "his store" because it only lists his content and nobody else's, and it has his logo at the top. Other than that, it's completely surrounded by UMD's own template and graphics, so it's not very personal and looks the same as all the other UMD store pages.

Wouldn't it be nice if mudlover could swap UMD's logo for his own, tweak the color scheme and the buttons, change how many listings per page. It would still be an automatically-maintained listing on UMD just as it is now, only mudlover gets to personalize it and really call it his own. If he wants to. If he does nothing, a default template will be used and the site will still be auto-maintained. Not enough videos? The membership areas will automatically be closed to new purchases. No videos at all? The entire site will be automatically pulled down.

The new membership area, technically, is only a bundle of an arbitrary number of existing downloads for sale at a single price. Kaolumbia could choose to put 30 of his older VHS scan videos into his membership area for $40, and keep his newer videos as downloads only.

There will be no effort on the part of producers to maintain their site, just as there is no effort now to maintain their current UMD download stores. This is really just a skinning system to replace UMD's template on your existing download store with something more custom.

By the way, thank you everyone for your input. I consider it all heavily. Since the launch of the download store system some concern was expressed to me about the future of the download store business model. Common knowledge was that full-membership sites were a thing of the past, and downloads were "the new thing." In reality, they both now exist as two different but viable business models: A lot of customers consider it a better value to sign up and get a lot of stuff at a single price, while others would rather just buy one thing at a time. Offering memberships gives the customer more options and the producer more options and exposure. It makes an effort to cover both dynamics should consumers ever shift away from downloads and more towards memberships. The store framework is already built, so why not be ready, right?

I completely understand the proposal, and am all for the democratisation of the web, so by all means open up the possibility of a membership site to those who may previously not have been in possession of the tech skills required.

I just think a lot of those people may find it difficult to provide a level of service that a membership site requires, and that by providing the framework and handling the transactions UMD/AlertPay/whoever else is involved, may have to take some responsibility for the sites created.

My issue is not with the ability to create a personalised store/membership site, it is just with the responsibility that comes with the financial side.

I don't know how it works with CCbill or others of that ilk, but presumably if they get complaints about a site not fulfilling it's promises re: content, they have some legal responsibility to the customer. Not if it is just a few complaints, but if the number grows, surely they would look into it.

Now, say I took the membership option, built a site and updated 3 times a month for the first year. People were happy, money was coming in etc. But then I don't update for 3 months, people moan on the forum, I apologise and say I will update more, but some people demand refunds. I then don't update again and the complaints get bigger. I however, have been taking my $40 a month from 10 customers, and now 5 of them want refunds. I say no.

At what point does UMD have to step in, and do you want to have to start policing sites that you act as inadvertent bank for - particularly if they may be people you know and have dealt with for years.

I hopefully will never be in that situation, but didn't want to single anyone else out as an example.

My worry is that the potential for a large argument and possibly even legal fight brewing on the UMD would grow with each store.

I'll shut up now, as it is completely your decision - glad it's not soemthing I have to work out!

This is kind of the point I've been trying to drive home: What level of service is required? There is nothing that a webmaster must do to maintain his site. He could technically never even see his site. UMD does all maintenance and service automatically, just as it does with everyone's current download store.


With UMD maintaining all membership areas and download stores, if something is advertised in the guest area, it will be guaranteed to appear in the membership area, too. There is no possibility of a site not fulfilling advertised promises, even if the webmaster does nothing at all.



There is no rebilling option, so this scenario can't exist. The customer looks at the site's guest area, sees what they'll get, they sign up for a one-time charge, and then they download the stuff that they were promised. It works exactly like the download store, only the producer can technically bundle a whole bunch of videos for a set price to be charged one time only, and we call that the "full member area." People are buying a member area package instead of single downloads. To prevent problems, a producer already cannot remove content that a customer still has access to, so there can be no bait-and-switch. Also, the membership sites make no guarantee of new material being made available on a time schedule. There are literally no promises being made that producers could possibly break.



Well again, the stores already exist. Every producer, nee, every single member of UMD already has one. UMD has already been running them and selling packaged content out of them for 2 years now. The new store system, while it will create stores (sites) that look quite different, are really just re-skinned representations of what's already here and running.

I appreciate your insight and foresight. It can only come from a deep love of the community! Plus it really makes me think!
Messmaster