I just wanted to conduct a little survey of the UMD to see what people's opinions are. I'm not trying to start problems, I'm just wanting to see what the UMD masses have to say about an issue on my mind.

I am back on the UMD as many folks know, and am allowed to post on the forum and chat in the chatroom (as long as I behave myself). However, due to my return, which has upset a UMD mod who runs many of the video download sites outside of the UMD, I am banned/blocked from doing transactions on all websites controlled by that mod. Messmaster is neutral on the issue (which is okay with me) because he can only control the UMD, and not tell people how to run their websites outside of the UMD. I have talked to some of the producers/models whose sites are affected and some didn't even have a clue that such a thing could occur without their knowledge. However since they site and uploading etc. is not controlled by them (and they are paying the person to run their websites/content etc) they have no say in what is happening either.

Personally I feel that the reason(s) for blocking me (at least the "official" ones) no longer exist (i.e. I am not a troll on the UMD anymore, I am a member who contributes) and as such this block/ban is only keeping the people who make the content from making money to help them produce new content.

Basically a choice has been given to me by the mod in question. Leave the UMD and never return (except to view the forums only) and I can download from the websites all I want or stay on the UMD and be permantely blocked/banned for life.

What do you think?

(Please keep this nice, I really do want constructive comments and opinions from people related directly to the matter and expect this topic to remain on track and not be used as an excuse by some to be abusive).

If that's true, I'd say that it sounds like exceptionally poor form by the moderator concerned, and I'd question whether that individual is right to continue to be a moderator here if they have such an agenda.

Frankly, it's childish and petty, and is depriving producers of your revenue.

I'm sure that the moderator concerned has the right to bin this thread if they wished to, however I'd like them to come on here and justify their action.


P.S Unless of course you were banned for password trading, in which case you deserve everything you get....

No, I have never personally traded passwords with people on the UMD or outside the UMD. In fact I have alerted some producers on the UMD about their videos being posted illegally for free on such websites as YouTube!.

I don't know.

I don't know what happened. I think your presence here's been perfectly fine but then again, I don't know what it used to be before you returned.

I would caution against trying to get people to put pressure on the mod on your behalf, which is what this is. It's between you and that mod, not between you, the mod, and the entire world. Obviously somebody's hacked off and I have no idea whatever it was, but it could be that you will have to live with it.

I'm pretty sure you're not into mud anyway, but let's just pretend that you are.

And there's a clip that I produced, and you want it, but it's being offered by a store that you cannot access.

If somebody told me about that, I have all my clips anyway. I have PayPal. I have AlertPay too.

If I got the money through PayPal, I'd just send the file through a file transfer service, or mail it on disk. I can't do that all day or anything (which is why I use the UMD store and I have some clips at Club MPV) but here and there is absolutely fine.

Lots of people can't download for some reason or another...bugs in the computer, wrong browser, old computer, or they don't want to join a pay site when it's only one item they want...or they don't know much about computers and just can't figure out how it works...et cetera.

So contact the producer privately and say that you'd really like to do business.

Note: This won't work with a model who does not own the copyright to her own work or distribute it herself. It'll only work with producers who already have their own clips on their disks, and they own the copyright to those clips anyway.

Nessie

I believe in second chances. We all make mistakes and we all grow up.

Since your return, I have to say that you have contributed interesting topics and comments, none were in poor taste or anything of that nature and to me, you are now a valuable member of the wam community.

But sometimes the past can stay with us for a very long time, such as in a bankruptcy where a person is stuck with the 'bankrupt' title for seven long years, despite the reasons for their declaring bankruptcy in the first place. Of course that's just an example, but you get where I'm going here. I think when someone (such as yourself) has shown that they have really changed and they make a continued effort to be constructive and an asset to the community, eventually the past needs to be dropped.

Thank you for the reply and info. Yes, I know all about such ways to get around problems with downloading videos from sites, its just that it makes it very difficult and more costly sometimes (i.e. Paypal will charge the person getting the funds a fee, so I have to pay more for the same video to cover said fee). Doing "end runs" around the video download sites set up by myself and the producers/models is one issue the mod has with me. I don't like putting producers/models in this awkward position in they are not totally comfortable doing it (I don't want them to get into trouble or lose their website/download site completely).

Thank you CSJ for your comments and support. I feel the sameway myself. If I was still banned from the UMD and being a "troll" then I could understand how a tactic such as keeping from getting content might work. But that I am a regular member of the UMD and have the privelge/right to post on the UMD (i.e. I'm not "trolling"), then I don't see the reason to continue to do so.

Sorry CSJ, I think "valuable member" is stretching it somewhat.

While I do believe in second chances I also feel that the mod involved has both a responsibility to ensure this is a permanent change in behaviour, and has every right to decide who they do business with.

If I ran a shop and had constantly badly behaved visitors, I would feel fully entitled to turn down transactions from them even if it was financially detrimental. Those who sold items through my shop would lose out too, but my investment in time and effort - my choice.

Jack

Thank you for your comments Jack. Yes, the person has every right to decide who they do business with, it's just that, they are not the ones whose business is affected. The person who is affected is the producer/model who doesn't make money off the downloads I would have bought, and in turn doesn't make money to help pay the person who is blocking business from them to run their website. The person doing the blocking isn't losing any business, which I don't think is fair.

Also, if this tactic is truely designed to "make me a better person" then it doesn't really matter what I do? If I leave the UMD I can still be blocked (i.e. for being a bad umd member) and if I stay I'm still blocked (i.e. for being a good umd member).

As I said, those who sold through what I had created and invested in would lose, but my choice as my store. I'm pretty sure the person involved will be losing out financially unless they are a hugely generous person who hosts for free. Either way, I won't go any further, I made my point as invited, will leave it to those concerned.

Jack

Me too Jack, I feel bad that the producers/models are missing out on business. Thanks again for your comments and discussion.

I wouldn't usually post to this kind of message, but a response has been playing on my mind since I first read your post.....

By proxy I am a customer of said Mod, and when you enter into any business contract you do so trusting that persons business and personal ethics and values, so I don't have a problem with any restrictions that are put into place, and likewise if we have a "problem" with individuals we know we have the backing of our host.

If you really feel you are being done wrong by I suggest maybe Pm-ing other mods for advise rather than bringing it into the public, and as Nessie said many producers use different methods of payment so you can contact them direct.

I hope what I've said makes sense?

LisaMoomin

I can understand that...you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by going around the store...and that's good...but...

When a producer sends something to this store that won't let you buy anything...

Has he or she given up all rights to distribute the work in different way? As in, has the store owner now become the exclusive holder of that work?

It could be so. Perhaps that store makes them agree to something like that. And in that case, they would, yes, be breaking that agreement by going around it.

Me, though, ain't no way I'd sign away my rights to my stuff! I make dang sure of that before I let anybody sell anything I produced by myself.

Nessie

Thank you for your comments Lisa, I appreciate what you said. I'm bringing the topic itself into the public, just get get discussion going and hear what others think. I'm not here to start a war or popularity contest with anyone, I would lose for sure!

Good point Nessie, I myself wonder that, who "owns" or "controls" the content when it gets uploaded to a secondary persons site? Apparently when the content is uploaded then the person running the download site has final say in how business is done since that is what they were hired to do in the first place.

If I were the mod in question I would not be pleased to see a thread started by you PP and with every other reply being from you. Very one sided. If you have a dispute with a mod this seems like a bad way to try and settle it. Also what is this post doing in messy? The only messy thing about it is the muck you're digging yourself into.

Hi Puddy

I think the Devils wont make the playoffs this year

Len S

We'd have to ask the store itself and/or the producers who use it.

But on the UMD download store, my clips remain copyrighted to me and they're mine to do with as I choose. If I want to sell the same clips on Clips4Sale, or offer downloads on my own, I'm free to do so. I was told that flat-out before I ever signed up.

And anyone whose store has different terms won't be carrying my clips.

End of argument.

Nessie

P.S. The UMD download store does take a fee for every sale. But there ain't no way I could make the transfer of my files for cash that painless on my own. It's worth it. Totally.

Figure it out yourself. It's none of the public's business. If i was said mod, I probably would've banned you just for bringing this to the public forum.

Nice, Pieman. So if his version of events is true a moderator is able to use commercial weight to bully him into not posting here when recent history suggests that the decision of (presumably) other moderators and MessMaster was the right one?

I think that's something which absolutely should be aired. The moderator has right of reply - the silence so far is rather damning in my view.