UMD Download Store Producers by Messmaster - The Ultimate Messy Directory

Delaware, USA
Site Owner

Hello, fellow download store producers. This is a reminder that everyone must supply their 2257 Custodian of Records information for every store they have on UMD, even if there is no explicit content. You don't have to supply us the records themselves, or even the statement itself. But you do have to supply the address of the custodian who has all this information. Please visit the following link for more info, and to and update each store with the address(es):

umd.net/manage_stores_setup

Within the next 24 hours or so, I will be taking stores offline that do not have this information.

Thanks,
Messmaster

Stay messy, my friends.

iWam.com

mm's AEBN Store

Posted 11/30/10

Hi
One concern I have about this as I'm sure a lot of other amateur producers will have is exposing their personal home addresses as this is all they will have to register with. Are these addresses going to be made public or will they be kept private for reference?

P.S. I also fixed the link

Posted 11/30/10

AlecStickman

Sacramento, CA

My Store

I'm pretty sure having a PO box follows the letter of the law.

If you watch my videos backwards, the groceries get put away.

AlecStickman's Store

Posted 11/30/10

Delaware, USA
Site Owner

yamtree said: Hi
One concern I have about this as I'm sure a lot of other amateur producers will have is exposing their personal home addresses as this is all they will have to register with. Are these addresses going to be made public or will they be kept private for reference?

P.S. I also fixed the link

Yes, from what I understand, a PO Box is fine. Law requires that authorities have access to an address they can use to contact someone to review records regarding the age of the models. This info must be displayed prominently on the site making the content available. The UMD's list of producer 2257 addresses is displayed here: http://umd.net/2257statement

MM

Stay messy, my friends.

Posted 11/30/10

UK
Admin

My Store

So, basically private addresses are to be shown for everyone to see? Is there a way to disguise part of it? For instance, we can't show full IP addresses openly on the forum so will edit part of it (see Posers & Trolls thread in off-topic for examples). I can see where Yamtree is concerned with members privacy.

Posted 11/30/10

I understand that this American law is for sexually explicit content.

In the case of Marlicious, there is nudity, but no sexually-oriented conduct, so I am unsure as to whether this exempts our videos.

Furthermore, this 'Federal' law has no jurisdiction outside of the U.S.A. and as we are Canadian producers, we are not bound by American laws.

So my question is this - do those producers who are NOT physically located in the USA, and NOT producing what the law refers to as 'sexually explicit' material, still need to provide this information? And question two, is why this contact information is public? Is it not enough that someone in your position keep the information on file, should the authorities request it? Why should the public know where we live?

I also notice in the existing statement of records on the UMD, several producers use a website or e-mail address, and not a physical one. Is this acceptable?

Posted 11/30/10

soundguy

Seattle & Vegas
Admin

Strictly speaking, 2257 MUST be a physical address and MUST include the real name of the keeper of the records. That address must be "open for business" and that person must be available during "normal business hours" (interpreted to mean 9-to-5). A PO box is NOT acceptable.

You do not need to use your own info, but your records must be available at the address you provide. That means a 3rd-party service is acceptable. Online records are also acceptable as long as they can be printed on demand.

Actual 2257 records must be a photo ID issued by a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY (US passport, state driver's license or ID). Foreign-issued documents are not acceptable. Records must include the name of every video you sell, the production date, and the full real names of all actors plus every alias and stage name they have ever worked under.

Keep in mind that parts of 2257 have been ruled unconstitutional over the last decade and the only official inspections occurred during the Bush administration. The Obama Justice Department has declined to pursue 2257 inspections and most obscenity cases.

As always with this kind of stuff, only YOUR lawyer can give you solid advice on the subject. Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice.

--- TheWAMstore --- A WAM Video Supermarket - 26,000 Titles

Posted 11/30/10

Delaware, USA
Site Owner

soundguy said: Strictly speaking, 2257 MUST be a physical address and MUST include the real name of the keeper of the records. That address must be "open for business" and that person must be available during "normal business hours" (interpreted to mean 9-to-5). A PO box is NOT acceptable.

You do not need to use your own info, but your records must be available at the address you provide. That means a 3rd-party service is acceptable. Online records are also acceptable as long as they can be printed on demand.

Actual 2257 records must be a photo ID issued by a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY (US passport, state driver's license or ID). Foreign-issued documents are not acceptable. Records must include the name of every video you sell, the production date, and the full real names of all actors plus every alias and stage name they have ever worked under.

Keep in mind that parts of 2257 have been ruled unconstitutional over the last decade and the only official inspections occurred during the Bush administration. The Obama Justice Department has declined to pursue 2257 inspections and most obscenity cases.

As always with this kind of stuff, only YOUR lawyer can give you solid advice on the subject. Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice.

This is good stuff. Mind if I use parts of it on UMD?

Stay messy, my friends.

Posted 11/30/10

Seattle & Vegas
Admin

Feel free. I try to stay informed on this subject, but the actual "law" consists of 3 or 4 separate laws that reference each other and each of those has been alternately upheld and ruled against by the US supreme court as well as numerous lower courts at various times. It's a virtual minefield.

--- TheWAMstore --- A WAM Video Supermarket - 26,000 Titles

Posted 11/30/10

With a 24 hour window to be required to respond to, I still would like to hear a better answer regarding the necessity of making personal names and addresses public information.

I am willing to provide statements and contact info to the UMD for their own legal purposes, but NOT to have this posted as public information. Models, producers, etc. are subject to enough scrutiny regarding stalkers or people intent only on harassment, and to list their names and addresses is simply ludicrous.

If this is an actual requirement, then please go ahead and take down our download store!!!! I'm sure other individual producers will feel the same way, if all of our privacy is at stake.

Posted 11/30/10

Liberatorwam

UK
Admin

My Store

Its being looked into Johnny so just hold fire mate.

Posted 11/30/10

wtfdownloads

soundguy said: Actual 2257 records must be a photo ID issued by a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY (US passport, state driver's license or ID). Foreign-issued documents are not acceptable.

So what you're saying is that regardless of the other issues about addresses being public (which is also a concern of mine), any producer outside the USA is screwed?

Posted 11/30/10

bosunbob

Wirral,UK
Admin

http://umd.net/2257statement

This link doesn't actually display the addresses of any UMD producers, it's just the statement. Messmaster is your intention to publish the addresses here in future?

messymayhem.com

Posted 11/30/10

bosunbob said: http://umd.net/2257statement

This link doesn't actually display the addresses of any UMD producers, it's just the statement. Messmaster is your intention to publish the addresses here in future?

A few hours ago, when I first posted, the link WAS revealing the names and addresses. This is why I am so concerned, as it seems to me that as long as MM has the information on file, it will protect him should any authorities request contact information on a producer. I can live with that, but NOT having the confidential contact names and address made public for any troublemaker to have access to.

We already had a false alarm with the provincial police showing up at our door, based on maps we posted on the UMD, and an 'anonymous tip' to our law enforcement officials. My landlady was NOT impressed! I can only imagine what would happen if people had our names and addresses and revealed our secret life to our family members, employers, etc.

So I'm sitting tight to see what the outcome on this will be.

Posted 11/30/10

Delaware, USA
Site Owner

Hey guys. I have altered UMD's 2257 page to NOT show any of the Custodian of Records information. I will keep this information internal and confidential, and I will reveal it only if authorities declare that they need to review it. It will not be publicly available anywhere unless at the request of the authorities.

I will still require this information to be supplied view the Store Setup area. It's your responsibility to keep all the information on your models, their ages, etc in your own records. All you have to supply us with is the address to where the custodian of that information is. If that's you, then yes you must either supply your information, or use a 3rd party service to be your custodian of records. Check out this google for such a service:

http://tinyurl.com/2f45ssy

Please hit me up if you have any questions or concerns.
Messmaster

Stay messy, my friends.

Posted 11/30/10

Wirral,UK
Admin

That's cool with me

messymayhem.com

Posted 11/30/10

Messmaster said: Hey guys. I have altered UMD's 2257 page to NOT show any of the Custodian of Records information. I will keep this information internal and confidential, and I will reveal it only if authorities declare that they need to review it. It will not be publicly available anywhere unless at the request of the authorities.

I will still require this information to be supplied view the Store Setup area. It's your responsibility to keep all the information on your models, their ages, etc in your own records. All you have to supply us with is the address to where the custodian of that information is. If that's you, then yes you must either supply your information, or use a 3rd party service to be your custodian of records. Check out this google for such a service:

http://tinyurl.com/2f45ssy

Please hit me up if you have any questions or concerns.
Messmaster

Derek, this sounds entirely fair, and I'm quite certain that most amateur producers will be willing to do this. (as am I)

However, you were displaying those names and addresses a few hours ago, and there is nothing to assure us that you may not have another change of policy and decide to display them again in the future.

So how about you put up a small form that we can use to provide this information, and on the form you provide a statement of confidentiality, so that we have some assurance that this information will indeed remain private.

That would probably keep all parties happy!

Whaddya think?

Posted 11/30/10

Delaware, USA
Site Owner

CSJ said:

I am a man of my word, and I have stated here that this information will not be made public unless required by authorities. If a policy change is indeed necessitated, then I would implement an opt-in system where you have to positively allow me to post such information, even if I already had it in the first place. That said, I will be modifying the Store Setup area in the near future, and I may want to mention this ideal there at that time.

Stay messy, my friends.

Posted 11/30/10

Specifically what records do we need to keep?

Soundguy said that only US Government issued ID for models is acceptable, which obviously excludes anyone who (like me) isn't based in the USA from participating. There are dozens of us in the UK who physically can't provide that info because it doesn't exist.

Also you might want to remove this line from the form: "This information will be displayed prominently on our 2257 page."

Posted 11/30/10