Starting a new thread, since Part I disintegrated into the Great Tin Debacle of '11.

Okay, this guy Evanier was briefly my hero for his anti-tin stance, but here he comes out as pro-shaving cream. So, obviously, he's not to be taken seriously at all. However, I offer it for the sake of completeness:

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2011_12_13.html#021802

Definition of pie:




Shaving foam is neither sweet or savory. It's inedible.

Therefore, anything with shaving foam is not a pie. End of story.

okay, we get it. we're still gonna use tins though.

You forget the times Curly in a 3 Stooges short,
or Bob Todd in a Benny Hill romp, was hit in the face with a pie,
only to have Moe (resp. Benny Hill) proceed to shave him with the edible
cream on his face.

Oh my god did you know wrestling is fake?

Wait...so the "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase isn't a millionaire? Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake wasn't a real barber? "Ravishing" Rick Rude wasn't ravishing? His mustache would beg to differ.

Why in 2011 would you even use shaving cream? Seriously, I never saw the appeal of it. Is it because it's so "foamy"? Because you've got Kool Whip, beaten egg whites, and a number of other culinary techniques to create the same same effect, is safe to go in your mouth, and won't burn your models' eyes (as much?).

I actually like the spray-can whipped cream...the fact that it gets a bit runny after a while means you can have your caker, er, pie and eat it too...the model can get a good pieing, but you can still see her beautiful face underneath. I've gotten nice results, believe it or not, with a pumpkin pie as a vehicle for aerosol whipped cream.

I can't imagine using shaving cream unless nothing else is available, or you're a teen living with their parents and shaving cream on the bathroom wall is easier to explain.

heresy!

hear hear!

I would always rather use whipped cream. It's much nicer than shaving cream in so many ways. But...
Reasons for going with shaving cream instead:
1) You plan to have multiple pieings between various people in public with bystanders. I don't want to risk hitting innocent people with whipped cream. (Also, in Japan, where keeping everything clean is a natinal priority, I would be strung up if I were to get whipped cream all over the place in public somewhere.)
2) You plan to have a pie-in-the-face party with upwards of 20 people in a very small apartment. Had we used real cream, we would have had to employ a separate clean-up team to keep cleaning throughout the party so we would have semi-clean places to walk and sit.
3) You need large amounts of cream for the proposed pies, but don't quite have the 2 or 3 hours it takes to make the whipped cream. (Not all of us live in a country where we can buy tubs of Kool Whip.)
4) You plan to take your shoot outdoors, and don't want to take large quantities of whipped cream with you because a) there's so much that it's hard to carry, and b) at some point it starts to melt. (Again, in Japan we have to make our own.)
5) The model(s) have actually stated a desire to try it with shaving cream!

As for the idea that it burns the models' eyes, I've never had that problem. We had a shaving-cream-pie party in August with 19 people involved and another one in October with 16 (I think) people, and not a single complaint about burning eyes. Same goes for the 5 or 6 single- and double-model shoots we've done with shaving cream.

I agree that it sucks when you get it right in your mouth. A few of my models would agree too. But that's the price we pay to solve the problems stated above.

As for Noise's very clear definition of a pie, while there's nothing inaccurate about it, it's incomplete. See, Noise chose to go only for the definition of an edible pie made (probably) for consumption. But as we all know, the meanings of words are not determined by what's written by some "authority" but rather by the people who use them. For example, just now I went to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary and typed in "i-pod", and was told that word isn't in the dictionary. But millions of people use that word every day and we all know what it means. There are lots of other examples that I won't sit and try to remember (although another jumps to mind: "input" was used by computer-users for years before it appeared in any dictionary) but we all know this to be true: the users of the language are responsible for defining the words.

So, since there are thousands of people using the term "pie" or "shaving cream pie" to refer to shaving cream on a plate or in a tin, and since anyone with any understanding of what that pie is going to be used for also immediately understands what "pie" means in that sense, "pie" has obviously taken on that meaning too. To have a problem with that fact is kind of like having a problem with the idea that the English language develops and evolves.

So if someone resists or opposes the use of the word "pie" to mean fake pies (pies made of inedible materials, or pies not made according to traditional recipes) then that person is pretty much an 80-year-old man yelling from his porch, "In my day, a pie was a baked thing, with a crust, dammit! Now get off my lawn!"


Andrew
PiedAsianGirls.com
PiedAsianGirlsADULT.com
MessyAsianFeet.com

That's because it's the name of a product - it's brand name.

Names don't feature in dictionaries unless they are a word that means something.

You might as well ask it to define Pepsi.


The rest of the definition I left out referred to meat pies and tops on pies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie



There is no definition of pie that is not food based:

pie /ˈpaɪ/ noun
plural pies
: a food that consists of a pastry crust that is filled with fruit, meat, etc. [count] ▪ The bakery sells pies and cakes. [noncount] ▪ Would you like a piece/slice of apple pie? ▪ I would like some pie. ▪ a pie plate [=a dish used for holding a pie] —


A shaving cream pie is just that, but it is not a pie. You can't sell someone a car made of chocolate without telling them it's a car made of chocolate because you will find yourself on the end of a lawsuit. English language is beautiful because you can use modifiers to convey concepts (The germans probably have a word for that.) such as a chocolate car, but just because you describe it as a car it doesn't make it a car.

As i said earlier, cake batter is not slime. It's cake batter. If you want to describe it as cake batter slime, feel free... but it's still not slime. It's slime substitute.

Or Dumpster.

As for shaving cream not being a pie, it's the old No True Scotsman fallacy.

True that names don't usually show up in dictionaries; unless the name of a product - through common usage by a lot of people - becomes a word recognized by the compilers of dictionaries as something being used with a bigger meaning or different meaning. So, if "i-pod" remains just the name of a product, then it will probably never make it into the dictionary. However, I suspect that there must be times when one person says "your i-pod" and another person, even though they own another brand of digital music player, recognizes that the first person is referring to their music player, even though it's not a real i-pod from Apple. So it takes on the understood meaning of "a small mp3 player." But I realize now that i-pod was a weak example, so how about another...

"Coke" is in the same dictionary I mentioned, with the definition, "a cola drink." Some people might stubbornly argue that "coke" only refers to the cola drink made by Coca-Cola. But millions of people who say "coke" to mean "any cola drink" would disagree, because that's not what they mean when they say it. This happens all the time; a word is used to mean something slightly different than it meant in the past, and so through common usage, that new meaning must also be recognized. To refuse to recognize the new meaning simply puts you at odds with common sense, even if you can point to a dictionary and say, "Look! It isn't in here!" In the case of "coke," the newer, wider meaning eventually made it into the dictionaries; but there was also a time before the dictionaries added that meaning, when it was nevertheless used by the public in that sense. Did Merriam-Webster's lack of acknowledgement mean that everyone was wrong when they said "coke" in reference to any cola drink being sold by their favourite diner? Of course not, because they all used the same word to mean the same thing, and it was immediately understood by everyone who heard it. That's what defines the meaning of a word.

Another case in point: said Merriam-Webster doesn't have any mention of "shaving cream on a plate" as a definition for the noun "pie" so the stubborn old man yells from his porch, "Ha! It's not in there! Ha!" But it also doesn't have any verb, "pie," defined as throwing or pushing a pie into someone's face, either. Will that stop the old man from using "pie" as a verb, or recognizing it as a verb when used by the other people on this forum? Probably not. Because we all recognize what it means to "pie" somebody. Just because the dictionary doesn't have it does not negate its understood meaning in the minds of a very large group of people.



Right. There is no definition... in the dictionary. But there is obviously another definition in the minds of thousands of people who meet here, and we all know it, so it doesn't have to be written down somewhere in order to exist. If you know what we mean when we say "shaving cream pie" then why do you still oppose the phrase? What would it accomplish even if you could force everyone to use a longer phrase like "mound of shaving cream on a plate"? It wouldn't change the meaning of what we're saying, and it would simply make things less convenient since the phrase "shaving cream pie" is so much shorter. And, most importantly, the phrase has already been established; thousands of people use the word "pie" to mean something like, "a quantity of cream (whipped or shaving or otherwise) or some other thick, liquid substance piled on a plate or tin, in the size and shape of a baker's pie, and used for throwing or smearing in someone's face, etc., usually for humourous or fetishistic purposes." We all obviously know that, so any opposition to the use of the word in that wider-than-the-dictionary's meaning is just stress on the part of the person resisting it.

Noise, relax on the porch! Let the kids play on your lawn!


Andrew
PiedAsianGirls.com
PiedAsianGirlsADULT.com
MessyAsianFeet.com

Not to bust up our alliance here, but I think you mean slime is a cake batter substitute.

I think the word you are looking for is generic.

Same as people say Hoover to mean a vacuum cleaner and so on, they say Coke to mean soda.

Excuse me for being in Texas and coming back and saying "there's no Coke in the fridge, is Dr Pepper OK?".

If people are lazy with language, that's there fault for inconveniencing me, not my bad for expecting them to use language with some accuracy.

Who says I would want to enforce everyone to use a longer phrase like "mound of shaving cream on a plate"? It's a very visual based fetish s you can see from pictures it's a piece of paper with shaving foam on it being labelled a pie.

There is whoever a reason Jeans hasn't become generic for trousers and so on... because it dilutes a very accurate and expressive language and becomes confusing. I don't tell my friend I will swing by in the Range Rover and turn up in a Dodge Challenger because he would think either I changed my mind or I'm an idiot. I don't tell him I will pick him up in my Ferrari because... he knows I don't have one. I don't ask him if he wants a Coke then hand him a 7up (Not in the dictionary either.) because he will look at me and say "I don't have lemonade, don't you have any Coke?".

If someone wants to call a paper plate with shaving foam on it a pie, then have at it. People expecting a pie will be disappointed and will either vocalise about it or just not buy the video. Either way, no skin off my nose - ... beyond the background annoyance a bunch of people are mildly inconvenienced by a bad description.


So no, I don't agree people should call a shaving foam on a plate a pie because it's misleading a large section of people on the forum to click a link or whatever. However, I don't care because to the people that want pies will skip over that person next time and go for either mine or another pie producers material.


Oh, and it's cake batter... it's not slime. It's slimy but it's not slime. Slime is slime. Cake batter is cake batter.

We use language for accuracy. Now, do excuse me. I have to jump on my Hummer and go to the hardware store to get some milk for my ape and then swing by Starbucks for a bottle of 20 year old malt beer - my girlfriend and I are celebrating our first silver anniversary tomorrow. We'll sink a few cokes and get drunk, hit the beach, slip on our bathing suits and go skinny dipping in the pool. I got her a cake, I hope she like shaving cream!


Also, I don't have a porch, it's a veranda. Our doors don't have any covered areas.

It's weird, I asked the contractor for a porch, and when I complained he told me their are thousands of builders and they just call any outdoor area with a roof... a porch.

Was this intentional?

I will let you decide that for yourself.

That must be a national culture thing, I normally make cake batter as part of making cakes but slime to pour over pretty ladies.

I could try baking a cake using slime - I'll let you know how that works out and what the old ladies at the church think.



So, satiate my curiosity...

If I advertised a mud wrestling video, and it was of two hot ladies wrestling in oatmeal... would it still be mud wrestling?

No, but I could probably still wank to it.