Although my profile says I have been here for a few months, I have been around since the beginning of the UMD. So I have seen the many changes and variations of the site over the years. The problem I want to point out is many producers spamming this forum and then when the thread is about to leave the 1st page, they are one of their minions bump it back to the top of the page. I know I'm not the only one who sees this.

Let me tell you what finally set me over the edge. Before Messmaster made his most recent tweak, you could see 50 posts on any page (not including sticky posts on the first page). I have noticed lately that the first page is dominated by producers pushing their latest video or in many cases, videos, and using a separate post to advertise every new release. Someone was bitched at for asking if slapstick stuff had left the UMD. Of course the usual lynch mob showed up to draw and quarter him for not searching for other "is slapstick stuff gone" type threads.

So I did, and I found the thread near the bottom of the 2nd page. And guess what? Of the 73 posts in front of him 58 of them were producers pushing their latest video...well you get the picture. The original thread was pushed off the 1st page by spamming producers.

I don't have a problem with a producer putting out a notice for their new stuff, but Jesus h Christ, some are putting out 4, 5 and 6 posts all within 2 or 3 days on their new stuff.

So now that MM has again changed the UMD, there is now 100 posts per page. When I woke up yesterday and opened up my iPad to look at the forum, there was 82 producer posts on the first page! WTF? Really, 82?!? Unbelievable.

So what is this doing? It's pushing the non-producer wam posts rapidly off the first page in favor of the overzealous producer. And don't get me started on many producers here who have this amazingly uncanny ability to post a reply or one of their ardent admirers post a reply just as the original post was going to leave the first page. There are certain women producers who you can guarantee will never let their original post without having it bumped numerous times. We all know that people rarely visit beyond the 1st page, so being on the lead page is golden.

This last item will piss off many but I have to also bring it up. The majority of the offenders of the items I brought up are British. Sorry, but stats don't lie. That 82 number I mentioned before; the UK producers are responsible for nearly 75% with one individual producer having 8 posts out of that 82. That is spamming, plain and simple.

It could be as simple as there are 3 times more UK producers. The US has lost messyfun, Neil Edwards, slapstickstuff, angle fan and Lenny doesn't produce as much as he used to. That leaves only messy girl and wamfan and they are not spammers or bumpers as I described above. The spamming is coming from producers across the pond.

Now the producers here want to sell their material and I appreciate it and support it IF it doesn't swamp out the amateurs and non-producers posting. The solution is simple; have a forum dedicated to producers posting their new material and reviews that have been recently suggested. Let's have a non-producer forum where people can post YouTube video links, polls, pictures, etc.

I'm sure the wam producers forum will still be the most visited. I'm just lobbying for the non-producers to not get lost in the spam.

I understand a few examples does not make a trend, but I have spoke to others and they wholeheartedly agree with me that the evidence is more than anecdotal.

I hope this will lead to an intelligent discussion and not a lot of attacks. It what's I observe and as a paid forensic analyst, I think there is a significant amount of validity to my claims.

I think it is a good idea to separate the forum. I read Playboy UMD mainly for the articles, and they do disappear quickly. I used to come here every few days; now I have to check in every day to make sure I don't miss anything interesting. (I don't know if this has been fixed, but for a long time the unread posts only displayed properly on the first page.)

As for spam, the most egregious case I have seen recently was someone asking us to come over to her forum (which has existed for a while).

I agree with the op. Seperate forms seem logical but it's unlikely to happen simple fact is if only 18 posts on the front page were non producers, then the non producer forum will most likely unused and neglected within a few months. because i'm sure that a few producers and their aforementioned "minions" will take protest because of a loss of revenue from lack of views and refuse to participate in the new non producer forum. I can name 2 in my head right now.

It's better to just not fix the forum if it ain't broken. I'm sure others will agree. If it's worked for 15 years it will continue to work until it becomes an absolute last ditch option when producer posts are scaring away non proudcer from posting or something of that ilk.

On the otherhand, with the above paragraph, I do believe the non producer forum would see an increase in lurkers coming forth and posting without fear of getting their posts bumped off the front page in less than 4 hours.

Just my dopey opinion.

right now, on the messy forum, of the 100 posts, on page 1...

67 are wam producers advertising their videos (and I didn't include mudmadphil who just posted a cool alternate angle shot of a mud scene he just filmed).

So can I

If the choice is between threads advertising videos I might want to buy versus threads full of whining, I'll take the former.

I hate to say but I agree with you 100% on this subject. There needs to be a separate forum for producers. Not just because the messy forum is dominated by producer post but it can also make it easier to find updates of your favorite producers. However we are probably right and this will never happen. Messmaster has to rule things based on the majority not the minority.

PS. Messmaster we only hope this helps you. We all believe without the UMD the wam fetish would not have come as far as it has over the last decade. We should all pay tribute to you my friend.

Good intelligent reply.

Thank you

Completely agree. I've not wanted to say anything for fear of being seen to pursue an agenda, but I think we know who the worst couple of producers are.

What really hacks me off is when it is done repeatedly with old material being added to the UMD store. The number of times that a thread is responded to *just* as it is about to disappear must always just be a coincidence, right?

Alot of people are afraid to say anything but as I mentioned in another post, more and more people are speaking up. It has reached that point. The next step and it will happen sooner than later, is that people will start calling others out directly by name.

Yea, me and others have brought this up before in the past. Nothin against the producers, but since there are SO MUCH of their posts it makes it harder to find non producer posts, and to some of us, these can be just as good as producers material. If we were to split the messy forum into a producer forum and a non producer forum I still would check both out equally, it would just help to organize them better.

P.S

I'm not whining thats just my 2 cents. I'll still remain here whether we change it or not.

I'm not afraid to call names, but I won't because there's a certain producer who seems to think I have an agenda because I took exception to him responding to himself on his own threads using a different forum ID. The guy was so desperate to see himself stay at the top, he was having a conversation with himself.

I just had this conversation (again) with another member here. It's basically impossible to categorize whether somebody is a producer or not. The line would be very thin and subjective. If they make money at what they're doing, do their posts get kicked to the Producers forum? What if they just make a little bit of cash, can they still be "amateur?" What if they are using a professional rig and lighting, but never actually turn a profit? Are they pro or am? What about the folks who have used UMD Downloads to post their digicam videos of their wife having some messy fun or whatever, for like $1.99? They are clearly amateur, but do their posts not belong here either since they are technically selling them? I have thought about it for years and I could not come up with an objective set of criteria, that were fair anyway, to separate professional from amateur. And I have never heard of one from anybody else, either.

It still boggles my mind that people complain that there is too much wam. 10 years ago people were going apeshit when somebody found "A" video of wam somewhere--a postage stamp sized fucking video. So we spend a decade building and tweaking these sites and filming content so you can easily come to a world--a mecca--of wam right at your fingertips, plus it updates with tons of new original stuff every single day. Now that there's more high definition wam around here than you can shake a dick at, we're complaining that "this particular type of abundant wam" doesn't suit our personal interests. Or the people making it shouldn't be allowed to mention this new material in the presence of certain people on this forum. There is a reason why producers post these threads: They work! They make sales when they do that. And that must mean... wait for it... that there is a healthy market on UMD for their material, contrary to what the more vocal people lead us to believe. If there wasn't, then there wouldn't be so many producers doing it!

But what's to complain about? The posts all contain freebies! This forum is basically a picture/video forum now. And a lot of it is professionally shot, professionally paid for, custom content created probably with the UMD and YOU primarily in mind. Even the amateur folks are sharing their intimate scenes with us, and giving us free stuff. They come here and post their freebies for you to enjoy, hoping to at least recoup the money they put into it. But what do we do? We shit all over it because this free wam material--stuff we would be reaching for the Jergens if it ever came on cable TV 10 years ago--is just not good enough anymore because it was made by somebody who actually put money into it and it has good lighting. /rant

I digress. There is definitely a vocal component to this userbase who thinks that "professional wam"--the inevitably subjective definition of which has never yet been proposed to me--should be confined to a separate forum. These vocal people are in the minority for sure, just like the people who want separate nudity / clothed forums, or separate xxx / PG forums, or a completely male-free forum, etc. But given the dynamic nature that this forum is rendered on each page load, I propose an option:

To be able to ignore any poster that you wish.

I'm not talking about the power that you already possess to just not click on shit you don't want to see. I'm talking about an actual forum icon--a little icon--that I could put next to each user name of people in this forum. Then when you come here, you could click to ignore that person, meaning you could filter the contents and omit the people whose posts you don't want to ever see. It would take a few minutes on your part, but you could easily run down all the posts and click a check mark next to the names of whoever you didn't want to see anymore. This way you can have your own definition of who a producer is, without forcing me to come up with an arbitrary definition of my own that 90% of people will slightly disagree with.

Opinionz?

This does nothing for people like me who are interested in the discussions, no matter who comments on them, but not necessarily in the picture posts. Ignore really only works when you dislike someone and don't want to see any of their posts.

Do you understand the (supposed) problem - that there are interesting discussions that are being pushed down by picture posts, and the former have no Devo77 to say 'nice discussion and swing it!'? That people who visit every few days may completely miss the existence of these discussions?


As for where to draw the line, perhaps one forum would be for discussion of any single scene (or small number of related scenes), including producers, amateurs, and TV shows, while the other would be for more general discussions such as 'how did you get into wam' or 'how to make a good pie'. Obviously there would be some overlap where a topic could go in each, just as there is now with messy vs. male. As a side benefit, this would make it more equal - you'd have male scenes, female scenes, and general discussion.

Holy problem solving, Batman!
That's friggin' amazing.


Andrew
PiedAsianGirls.com MessyAsianFeet.com PiedAsianGirlsADULT.com

What about a separate "discussion forum"?


Andrew

I just edited my post to propose the same thing

Few ideas.

How about just a Merchant forum? If you offer something that requires payment, you can post in there about it. Everything else would be in a General Discussion forum. Producers can post new videos, site updates and umd download store additions in the merchant forum. Amatures with vids on the umd store would fall into that catagory. Now someone like PGK, her full pick sets for example would be relegated to the general forum. Unless said set was for an available video then it would be relegated to the Merchant forum.

I think that without the instant shooting down of my idea, let's build on it. The Bill of right wasn't written in five minutes. If there needs to be a seperate forum, then there has to be an anwser.

And if quite possibly, we can just relegate a forum for all the download store updates. That'd make the home page alot less cluttered, although I see the obvious problem with that, so...

And Producers can only post one thread on a single topic. If you preview something, then a vid comes out, amend the topic, post a reply. No need for a new thread. Some of these ideas could help to lighten what feels like spam, and allow for a much easier UMD experience.

How about this one, we have an icon on each post where the postee can select a large (Insert Color here) P for Producer post. Or have a P next to their name. This would be anyone with a membership site and non umd download store.

Then an A for amature. Someone who posts vids and pics to the UMD Download store but does not have a membership site. That may make it easier to decipher which posts one might avoid.

I read that last line and relaized it was retarded. I dunno just trying to float out ideas.

Blue Sushi,

While I'm not sure that I'd agree with all of your comments and points, I do share the feeling that the vast majority of the topics here seem to be from contributors promoting their own material for financial gain. Now of course they have a right to do this under the forum rules - and a right to earn from their material - but if the numbers you quote are accurate then yes I agree that there could be many important topics that are missed and drop down the list under the weight of promotional posts.

The idea of a separate forum for such marketing seems reasonable although I know that can create other problems: demands for more separate forums for other aspects for one as I think Messmaster pointed out. On a point to Messmaster though: the distinction between an "amateur" and a "professional" producer is clear to me. If a producer is looking to get payment for their work, then they are "professional" regardless of the artisitic or technical quality of their goods or services.

Look at it this way: imagine that each page here of 100 posts is actually a 60 minute slot on a television channel. Using your number of 82 "producer" posts that would equate to almost 50 minutes of that hour taken up by advertisements, with repeated adverts airing for the same "company" during that hour. I can certainly see how that might become rather trying after a pretty short while - although many some viewers of US channels will be used this, or viewers of QVC.

To add another suggestion to this debate, what about categories of posts, perhaps defined by and listed with a suitable prefix? For examples: "Promotion", "Discussion", "Question", "Messy Find" and so on. Posters could then categorise each topic accordingly, with moderators correcting if need be. If a filter system was also in place to show only certain categories, that could allow members to view either all topics or only those categories of interest to them. Think of it like skipping through the adverts or news broadcasts on television or TiVo.

Just a thought.

Good pudding!

I really have to question redesigning an entire forum just to accommodate people who are too lazy to click the "2" at the bottom of the first page to see what's on the second page.

If the general consensus is that some producers post too often, why not just make a new rule that producers can only post one thread a day for each of their sites or stores?