It's no secret that I've been the subject of discussion lately regarding inexcusable behavior displayed by me towards model Vicki. Things got out of control after I was presented with a custom scene idea for Vicki. After emailing back and forth with the potential sponsor, I went too far, she was notified, and called me out on it. 

What I wrote in those emails about Vicki was wrong and disgusting on every level, whether joking or not. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, and I personally apologized to her for my behavior. Despite that, Vicki gave me a chance to work with her and prove her initial feelings about me wrong. She was the bigger person in that situation, and ultimately enjoyed the shoot that took place.

I apologize to those who have been offended in the community by this.  

What can we say as a community if we can't forgive people for stupid mistakes. However with that said to me it should be up to models involved in this incident to judge weather you can be forgiven. As a community we can only look from outside in and will never truly know where the truth starts and lies begin. As a consumer I will not buy your videos any longer but I do not wish you ill but only hope you take the lessons you have learned to heart. That is my two cents.

Crimson

As long as you didn't physically do anything to Vicky or force her to read anything she didn't want to read, you did nothing illegal. That potential customer should not have been pressuring you to do disgusting stuff. Don't deal with those customers anymore.Glad you resolved it. When I get the money, I will buy one of your downloads.

That was a nice apology about the emails...







Any comment on that? I suspect that's more what people are worried about than emails.

Another reason it's not worth having discussions about custom shoots...

From the member with lots of numbers in his name -
--------------------------------

"Well Well Well! Looks like this great community of wam has fallen completely.

I thought the disgraceful behaviour of "Anglefan" would have got him banned?
Terms of service User Conduct
"harassing through private messages (in the inbox or chat)"

but has he been banned, i dont think so. But if a "normal" person had done such things he/she would have been labeled a "troll" and banned immediately.

So let me get this straight, If your a producer and high up in the wam community you can do these disgraceful things and get away with it and stop on the umd

but if your not a producer and you are just here to chat and view all the messy pics and videos and you do even 10% of somthing as bad you get banned."

Whats going on...

-----------------------

Firstly, Messmaster is dealing with Anglefan issue but I am making a post in regards to -

http://umd.net/forums/topicid/236422

The messages were by e-mail and not via umd's chat or pm inbox? I am correct on that as far as I know.

Maybe Vickie is a better woman than I because I would have never given you a second chance.

While I do appreciate an apology that takes responsibility and does not include a bunch of excuses and "but's," as noise points out this fails to address the real concern. The accusation is that you've already done this before (once or twice). Perhaps a hypothetical situation got out of control over email. However, acting on such conversations take it to a whole new level, possibly criminal. If you have some kind of rebuttal we're ready to read it. Not answering the question, while it doesn't prove guilt, looks really fuck'n shady.

yeah i think the questions noise mentioned and the points secretlife314 brought up are what concerns most people.

Why was the poster with the numbers banned? He was a tad rough perhaps, but raised some valid points.

As far as Ken goes, no apology is ever going to make the stink of this go away. He's branded now.

Maybe this is me being a pedant, but I have a hard time caring too much whether or not this was illegal. The law, as I hope we all know, is of necessity an imperfect approximation of morality, and there is (or ought to be) no question at all that it is (very) wrong to take advantage of a model. Whether or not the behavior in question was illegal - or, if so, if there's enough evidence to convict in a court of law - it seems to me that we as a community have certain responsibilities when it comes to managing ourselves.

For me, the alleged offense - ejaculating on a model during a shoot without her knowledge or consent - is a one-strike-and-you're-out kind of thing. And no, I'm not saying that because I have some kind of middle-schooler's grudge against Anglefan or because I don't like his videos or whatever; I'm certainly not saying it because I have a long-running paranoid vendetta against the UMD. I also don't expect my suggestion to be taken up immediately just because I said it - I mean, this is what, my second or third post ever? But I am sure that we, as a community, have to come to a decision in cases like this and that that decision has to be publicly explained and justified.

So, to make my case briefly: if the accusation is correct, I think that Anglefan should be banned and his site(s?) should be delisted from the UMD. Obviously we would have no power to shut him down altogether, and I'm not sure that that'd be the right move even if we did have that power. We aren't the law and we don't need to act like it, but we (in the UMD) are a group with a shared interest and membership in this group confers certain benefits, especially for producers. Put simply, I do not want those benefits to be open to someone of such appalling judgment (again, if the accusations are accurate). Presumably Anglefan has a number of friends here and obviously he has somewhat of a following - fine. As individuals, we're all free to decide whom to befriend and whom to support financially and the last thing I'm saying is that we must all do everything we can to ruin this guy's life. But *from the standpoint of the community* I think the correct response is clear: this cannot be the kind of behavior that we excuse. At the absolute minimum, we have to be very clear with ourselves about why we end up making the decision that we end up making.

He hasn't been banned!! In fact he was already a member here but decided to open a 2nd account to post his opinion.

If the member wants to come forward under his own name then that's up to him but members are not permitted two accounts (Term of Service)

Ok, gotcha...

Strange thing is I can see 12221112221 account but it says "Not Verified". Could be an umd glitch.

12221112221 - can you verify your account as I've sent you a PM. I need to know if you want me to replace 12221112221 with your actual username.

I click on his profile and get this:

I really don't wanna get you pissed,
but I gotta tell you, that user doesn't exist!

I don't want to hijack this thread so I will e-mail the member instead. What's happened is the member 12221112221 has deleted his account then rejoined with the same name!! I can't verify that as I don't have the site logs. I can confirm he has not been banned. Just wished though he used his own account to begin with!

Hellp people,

Im not going to lie, i have been here before and i was banned. I was carsman but i was banned a second time because aparently i was someone else.

Thats why i had to make another account because of whats happend. I had to say somthing. It made me sick because of the fact people are banned for less than what he did.

I did make a apology in a thread called "im so so sorry" or somthing
but i was refused to come back by the mods and so i stick "stoock" by that

but id love to come back with a "proper" user name if i was aloud

Troy
(Yes Troy thats my real name sorry)

Hi Troy,

You haven't explained the reasoning so I looked at the banned list
---------------------------------

From midniter -

Ip: **.**.19.105

AKA:wamtime. Underage (17) Might also be "carsman" who has also been banned. 5/28/09

returning password trader 2/25/10
--------------------------------

Also,

password trader
http://umd.net/community/prowam/


previously known as
http://umd.net/community/carsman/

carsman user ID14122 has successfully verified their email address. carsman XX.98.91.22 08-Jun-2008
carsman user ID14122 has signed up as a new user with IP address XX.98.91.22 and has been emailed a confirmation email to carsman@live.co.uk.
XX.98.91.22 08-Jun-2008

Deleted carsman with email address carsman@live.co.uk
Notes are: User requested account to be deleted. bosunbob 12-Jan-2009

Prowam PM to messymaddy
UMD Inbox


"Swap"
From prowam on 2009-02-13 18:24:45:
Hello maddy
i carnt afford any of your movies atm so could i give you my www.messyfun.net
login and user name if i could have 1 of your videos pleas?

and in conclusion....

Deleted prowam with email address prowam@live.co.uk
Notes are: Offering passwords for freebies. XX.98.91.22 midniter Sat, Feb 14 3:16am

midniter
Old trolls never

If you speak of the Term of Service then you are well aware that trading passwords is a banned offence. Producers don't live in huge mansions and drive super sport cars, they need every penny, every cent to survive in this business. By trading passwords in the chat room you take their livliehood away and prevent members here from purchasing any more material from them.
------------------------------

Can you understand why you are banned from umd?

I know! Thats why i totaly accept being baned and why im so angry angelfan did somthign worse and hes still here and i tryed to sya sorry and i didnt get accepted and i totaly accept that but i had to say somthing becuase im a long LONG time lurker and im now at legal age. So im sorry for making another account and i will delete it myself once this has all been sorted (unles im banned) but id love to come back permamently someday.

We don't have a sliding scale of what are the most serious offences If the TOS is broken then 99% of members are warned but Password Trading is a serious offence and there are more then one occassion when you asked for and shared passwords.

I will leave it to the original moderator who removed your account but don't hold your breath...

...in the meantime i have changed your account name to "carswam".

Sorry to everyone for hijacking an important thread.